Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
-
The Cross Is From Paganism
- Thread starter CherubRam
- Start date
Catholic Lent
Lent | Definition, History, Meaning, Catholic, & Practices
Lent is a period of penitential preparation for the Christian feast of Easter. In Western churches it begins on Ash Wednesday. Lent is observed for 40 days, in imitation of Jesus Christ’s fast in the wilderness, and focuses on fasting, prayer, and almsgiving.
www.britannica.com
Easter is Ishtar.
Catholic Lent
Lent | Definition, History, Meaning, Catholic, & Practices
Lent is a period of penitential preparation for the Christian feast of Easter. In Western churches it begins on Ash Wednesday. Lent is observed for 40 days, in imitation of Jesus Christ’s fast in the wilderness, and focuses on fasting, prayer, and almsgiving.
www.britannica.com
As a Christian I'm primarily interested in practises with a biblical bases, practises from questionable rcc sources I'm not interested in.Catholic Lent
Lent | Definition, History, Meaning, Catholic, & Practices
Lent is a period of penitential preparation for the Christian feast of Easter. In Western churches it begins on Ash Wednesday. Lent is observed for 40 days, in imitation of Jesus Christ’s fast in the wilderness, and focuses on fasting, prayer, and almsgiving.
Easter is Ishtar.
From a Christian perspective your posts about the cross, crossing oneself etc are not important and irrelevant.
Do you have biblically based arguments?
- Revelation 13:16
It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,
- Revelation 13:17
so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.
- Revelation 14:9
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand,
- Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
- Revelation 16:2
The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.
- Revelation 19:20
But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
- Revelation 20:4
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
What does that have to do with making the sign of the cross with ashes on the forehead?
If you do not see the connection then there is nothing I can do for you.
Carry_Your_Name
Member
That “connection” is as legitimate as a connection between the mark and the barcode or the mark and the world wide web.
Think about what you’re saying. Do you really believe, with all the hatred of religion in general and Christianity in particular, that unbelievers will accept the sign of the cross? Do you really think the mark of the beast is going to be the sign of the cross, the sign of the very thing that secured his demise?
Apart from the obvious problem that a physical mark could be anything, it may not be a visible mark, and it may not even be a physical “mark.” You make too many assumptions to fit your dislike of historic, orthodox Christianity.
Nothing here stating the mark of the beast is a cross.
Question for you:
Do you believe Jesus Christ is LORD; YHWH the LORD God?
JLB
I would be grateful if you would explain the connection between roman Catholic and orthodox practices and the end times.
If you believe that it is OK to join Paganism to Christianity then there is no problem.
Mystery Babylon
Quoting: Mr. Rev. Clarence Larkin. “When Attalus, the Pontiff and King of Pergamos, died B.C. 133, he bequeathed the Headship of the Babylonian Priesthood to Rome.
When the Etruscans came to Italy from Lydia (The region of Pergamos), they brought with them the Babylonian religion and rites. They set up a Pontiff who was head of the Priesthood. Later the Romans accepted this Pontiff as their civil ruler. Julius Caesar was made Pontiff of the Etruscan Order in B.C. 74. In B. C. 63, he was made Supreme Pontiff of the “Babylonian Order,” thus becoming heir to the rights an title of Attalus, Pontiff of Pergamos…Thus the first Roman Emperor become head of the “Babylonian Priesthood” and Rome the successor of Babylon (p. 151-152).” ...
Constantine the Great coinage carried the symbols of the sun-cult until 324. Even when he dedicated the new capital of Constantinople, which became the seat of Byzantine Christianity for a millennium, he did so wearing the Apollonian sun-rayed Diadem. Constantine was the Pagan High priest of the Babylonian Mystery cult.
Attalus III (in Greek Attalos III) Philometor Euergetes (ca 170 BC – 133 BC) was the last Attalid king of Pergamon, ruling from 138 BC to 133 BC.
Rev. Alexander Hislop states: “… There never has been any difficulty in the mind of any enlightened Protestant in identifying the woman sitting on seven hills, and having on her fore head the name written ‘Mystery, Babylon the great,’ with the Roman apostasy. No other city in the world has ever been celebrated, as the city of Rome has … for its situation on seven hills (p. 2).”
Mystery Babylon.
That city is Rome, and more specifically, Vatican City.
Catholic apologist Karl Keating admits that Rome has long been known as Babylon. Keating claims that Peter's statement "The church here in Babylon ... sends you her greeting" (from I Peter 5:13) proves that Peter was writing from Rome. He explains further:
"Babylon is a code word for Rome. It is used that way six times in the last book of the Bible [four of the six are in chapters 17 and 18 and in extrabiblical works such as Sibylling Oracles (5, 159f.), the Apocalypse of Baruch (ii, 1), and 4 Esdras (3:1).
Eusebius Pamphilius, writing about 303, noted that "it is said that Peter's first epistle... was composed at Rome itself; and that he himself indicates this, referring to the city figuratively as Babylon."
Yahwah is the Holy Spirit AKA our Heavenly Father. And Yahshua is Yahwah's special adopted son. Yahwah is The Only True God. Yahwah came into being upon His own accord and became a living being.
Isaiah 43:10
“You are my witnesses,” declares (the Lord / Yahwah,) “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god (was) formed, nor will there be one after me.
The word (was) is not in the original text but is added to scriptures.
Except that have not proven that that has been done. The cross is correct.
Oh? What symbols were they?
Examples?
From where did your "rev" get this info? Just trust him on a say so, right?
Okay, all this info tells us nothing about why the Cross is somehow pagan.
Why does the Bible talk about "carrying your Cross"? Luke 9:23
Do you really believe that God wants us to take up a pagan symbol daily?? Your belief is not rooted in the Bible but in vague, arbitrary connections.
So you cannot back your wild claim about the Cross being the mark. Luke 9:23 .
Do you really think God wants us to take mark? (spoiler: He doesN'T!)
But it's the conclusion of your belief.
God does NOT want us to take the mark at ALL. So obviously, THE CROSS is NOT the mark.
The word stake was replaced with the word cross.
Luke 9:23.
23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their (cross / stake) daily and follow me.
Cross Stake Pole | Christian Forum
Cross Stake Pole The two Greek words in question are stauros (pronounced Stou-ros or stavros) and xylon (pronounced ksee-lon). Here's what Greek
christianforum.boards.net
The Cross as a Talisman
A talisman is an object that someone believes holds magical properties that brings good luck protecting the possessor from evil or harm.
A plenary indulgence removes all punishment due for sins. The Cross on the Catholics death bed is for that purpose.
Yahshua did not die on a "cross", but died upon a torture stake, for that is the meaning of the Greek word stauros, and is used interchangeably by the Bible writers with the Greek word xylon, translated as "tree" or "wood" by the King James Bible.(Acts 5:30)
For Yahshua to become the "accursed" one, to fulfill the Mosaic Law, it was required for him to die upon a "tree" or more literally a "stake", for Deuteronomy 21:22,23 says: " And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree.(Hebrew ‛ets´) His body shall not remain all night upon the tree (Hebrew ‛ets´), but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God."
The apostle Paul quoted from Deuteronomy 21:23, saying that "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree (Greek xylon ):"(Gal 3:13, King James Bible)
Thus, the Hebrew word ‛ets´ corresponds to the Greek word xylon and means a timber, or a "beam". To show that this is the case, at 1 Kings 6:15, in building the temple, it said that Solomon, "from the floor of the house up to the rafters of the ceiling he overlaid (the walls) with timber (Hebrew ‛ets´) inside." Thus, "timber" ("a large piece of wood, usually squared, used in a building, for example, as a beam", Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) of cedar was used to overlay the walls, and was upright "timber" of wood and not "cross" forms.
The online interlinear Scripture4all renders xylon as "wood". Another Greek word used for the instrument Yahshua died upon, stauros, is at Matthew 10:38; 16:24; 27:32, 40, 42 and is rendered as "pale"(online interlinear Scripture4all ), which means "fence stake: a pointed slat of wood for a fence."(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) That he died upon a "pole" or "stake", is that the apostle Peter said of Yahshua, that "we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:"(Acts 10:39, King James Bible; "tree", Greek xylon)
The apostle Paul told the Jews in Antioch in Pisidia, that "when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him (Yahshua) down from the tree." (Acts 13:29, King James Bible; "tree", Greek xylon) The apostle Peter wrote: "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree."(1 Peter 2:24, King James Bible; "tree", Greek xylon) Hence, Yahshua died upon a "tree" or "pale", a "stake", not cross.
The Hebrews had no word for the traditional cross. To designate such an implement, they used “warp and woof,” alluding to yarns running lengthwise in a fabric and others going across it on a loom.(Lev 13:56-59) The French Dictionnaire Encyclopédique Universel (Encyclopedic Universal Dictionary) says: “For a long time we believed that the cross, considered a religious symbol, was specifically for Christians. This is not the case.” The book Dual Heritage—The Bible and the British Museum (1986) states: “It may come as a shock to know that there is no word such as ‘cross’ in the Greek of the New Testament. The word translated ‘cross’ is always the Greek word [stau·ros´] meaning a ‘stake’ or ‘upright pale.’ The cross was not originally a Christian symbol; it is derived from Egypt and Constantine.”
The New Strong's Concise Concordance & Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible states that the meaning of "stauros (4716) denotes, primarily , "an upright pale or stake." On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, "to fasten to a stake or pale," are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed "cross." The shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the "cross" of Christ."(Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible, pg 75, 1999 edition)
Under the Hebrew word ‛ets´ (6086), Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible says "tree; wood; timber; stick; stalk." It goes on to say that "this word may signify a single "tree," as it does in Gen. 2:9; or a genus of tree, Isa. 41:19. ‛ets´ can mean "wood as a material from which things are constructed, as a raw material to be carved, Exod. 31:5. Large unprocessed pieces of "wood or timber" are also signified by ‛ets´, Hag 1:8. The end product of wood already processed and fashioned into something may be indicated by ‛ets´, Lev 11:32. This word means "stick" or "piece of wood" in Ezek. 37:16...‛ets´ one time means "stalk," Josh. 2:6."(pg 387)
And under the Greek word xylon (3586), Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible says "wood, a piece of wood, anything made of wood," is used, with the rendering "tree,"....the tree being the stauros, the upright pale or stake to which Romans nailed those who were thus to be executed, Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; 1 Pet 2:24."(pg 387-88)
Thus, whether it be ‛ets´, xylon, or stauros, the meaning was the same, that of a "tree", "timber", "wood", "stick", or "upright pale or stake" and not a cross.