The Devils Believe...are they damned?

[follower of Christ]

I cant even figure out the confusion on WW's part.
The demons are fallen angels....ie theyve SEEN enough that they DO believe in God...ie they KNOW He is.

And the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(Rev 12:9 EMTV)

That has NOTHING to do with BELIEF UNTO SALVATION.

Demons are CONDEMNED already...they CANNOT be saved as their sentence has been PASSED !
They KNOW what theyre sentence is !

And suddenly they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, Son of God?
Have You come here to torment us before the time?"
(Mat 8:29 EMTV)

WW, I got to hand it to you, you can really cook up some good ones

 

[follower of Christ]

I don't see them in different contexts at all.

Clearly.
The real question is do you not see them as different because you cant....or because you wont.
Ive seen both kinds.
Those who couldnt see because their minds were darkened to truth. And those headed down that path who still COULD see but refused to admit it and will eventually have their minds darkened.
It happened to the Jews....it can happen to ANYONE who keeps insisting on pursuing error.

In Mark the subject is preaching the gospel and believing in that gospel. What is the gospel? The Word. Who is the Word. Jesus Christ. In James the devils believe that "there is one God." Do they believe in another God? No...they "believest that there is one God." That God is the Word, the gospel.

IRRELEVANT !
The DEMONS STAND CONDEMNED already
Their judgment already passed and their final sentence already decided.

How this is so complex would be beyond understanding except that we also know that Satan himself doesnt give up his folly even tho he has NO chance of succeeding.

 

[follower of Christ]

They do not believe in the sense that you are saying they do. That's my point.

Exactly.
belief...ie KNOWING something is....is NOT the same as belief (and trust and obedience) to salvation.
This thread and discussion has pretty much confirmed my previous thoughts about some things..

 

[whirlwind]

WW, as has been stated already, salvation is for people only, not fallen angels. The word devils refers to fallen angels, not people. There is a difference in believing that there is one God and being saved from sins. I can claim all day long that I am saved because I believe in God, but until I recognize that salvation comes through Jesus, then it doesn't matter. James was showing the reality that believing in God is not enough... salvation comes through faith in Christ, and if one has true faith then they will bear out the fruits of the Spirit. THAT is what "faith without works is dead" means.

I have not mentioned "salvation." This has nothing to do with salvation. Nor did I say they were "saved." I said it is written that they believed and if one believes one is not damned....according to God's Word.

 

[whirlwind]

I don't see them in different contexts at all. In Mark the subject is preaching the gospel and believing in that gospel. What is the gospel? The Word. Who is the Word. Jesus Christ. In James the devils believe that "there is one God." Do they believe in another God? No...they "believest that there is one God." That God is the Word, the gospel.

I know you don't see them in different contexts, that is the problem. Look at what you wrote: "In James the devils believe that "there is one God." Do they believe in another God?"

Believing that there is one God and believing in that one God for salvation are two completely different things.

But Free....they believed. That is my point.

They do not believe in the sense that you are saying they do. That's my point.

I didn't say they believed for salvation. I didn't mention salvation. The devils believed....those that believe shall not be damned. Those are our Father's Words. They won't go away so...what do they mean?

 

[Caroline H]

If they aren't saved, they are damned. If they aren't damned, they are saved. By your saying that maybe the devils (demons) aren't damned, what do you want us to think? Maybe you're being unclear.

 

[whirlwind]

I cant even figure out the confusion on WW's part.
The demons are fallen angels....ie theyve SEEN enough that they DO believe in God...ie they KNOW He is.

And the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(Rev 12:9 EMTV)

That has NOTHING to do with BELIEF UNTO SALVATION.

I didn't say it did. I have not mentioned salvation except to tell you and others.....I have not mentioned salvation!

Demons are CONDEMNED already...they CANNOT be saved as their sentence has been PASSED !
They KNOW what theyre sentence is !

[quote:2nsrjypg]And suddenly they cried out, saying, "What have we to do with You, Jesus, Son of God?
Have You come here to torment us before the time?"
(Mat 8:29 EMTV)

WW, I got to hand it to you, you can really cook up some good ones [/quote:2nsrjypg]

As well as not mentioning salvation...I haven't mentioned being saved. I repeat the Words of the Lord from two verses....."the devils believed and those that believed are not damned."

 

[whirlwind]

They do not believe in the sense that you are saying they do. That's my point.

Exactly.
belief...ie KNOWING something is....is NOT the same as belief (and trust and obedience) to salvation.
This thread and discussion has pretty much confirmed my previous thoughts about some things..

I didn't imply that they trusted and were obedient to Him. Far from it. The words used, believe, believest, etc. all have the same definition. It is not written that the devils must trust and obey in order to not be damned and yet....they believe and are not damned. Those that are saved believe and are baptized...not so with the devils for it is not said that they are saved....just that those that believe are not damned. My question is why? What is being said for it is certainly more than we are presently seeing.

 

[jasoncran]

look at the word believe in old english bylive, meaning to have enough trust that you live by that. the devils simply say yes jesus is real and has all power but dont submit to his authority.

 

[whirlwind]

If they aren't saved, they are damned. If they aren't damned, they are saved. By your saying that maybe the devils (demons) aren't damned, what do you want us to think? Maybe you're being unclear.

I'm not being unclear. Others are attributing salvation to this....not me. Also, it isn't me saying the devil's are or aren't damned. It is written, "those that believe shall not be damned...the devils believed." How can those two verses be justified? What is meant?

 

[Caroline H]

But that's just it, I don't think they need to be justified at all because they are talking about two completely different things.

 

[whirlwind]

look at the word believe in old english bylive, meaning to have enough trust that you live by that. the devils simply say yes jesus is real and has all power but dont submit to his authority.

It doesn't say...if you only believe He's real but don't believe He has all power then....you are damned. "The devils believed. Those that believe are not damned." No more, no less.

 

[jasoncran]

look at the word believe in old english bylive, meaning to have enough trust that you live by that. the devils simply say yes jesus is real and has all power but dont submit to his authority.

It doesn't say...if you only believe He's real but don't believe He has all power then....you are damned. "The devils believed. Those that believe are not damned." No more, no less.

:crazy if that's the case why even accept the cross and repent, but rather say i know the lord exists. and keep on a sinnin

 

[whirlwind]

But that's just it, I don't think they need to be justified at all because they are talking about two completely different things.

But...they are not about two different things. They are about belief. As I wrote to Free....


I don't see them in different contexts at all. In Mark the subject is preaching the gospel and believing in that gospel. What is the gospel? The Word. Who is the Word. Jesus Christ. In James the devils believe that "there is one God." Do they believe in another God? No...they "]believest that there is one God." That God is the Word, the gospel.

 

[whirlwind]

look at the word believe in old english bylive, meaning to have enough trust that you live by that. the devils simply say yes jesus is real and has all power but dont submit to his authority.

It doesn't say...if you only believe He's real but don't believe He has all power then....you are damned. "The devils believed. Those that believe are not damned." No more, no less.

:crazy if that's the case why even accept the cross and repent, but rather say i know the lord exists. and keep on a sinnin

Are they saved? Do they have salvation?

 

[jasoncran]

according to the way you present the word believe,yes, the devils know the lord is real but that is more an acknowledgement of truth, but not the requirement of salvation.

 

[whirlwind]

according to the way you present the word believe,yes, the devils know the lord is real but that is more an acknowledgement of truth, but not the requirement of salvation.

Jason. I'm not presenting the word believe in any way other than how it is written. I have quoted His Word. I will again say...this is not about salvation.

 

[Caroline H]

But...they are not about two different things. They are about belief. As I wrote to Free....


I don't see them in different contexts at all. In Mark the subject is preaching the gospel and believing in that gospel. What is the gospel? The Word. Who is the Word. Jesus Christ. In James the devils believe that "there is one God." Do they believe in another God? No...they "]believest that there is one God." That God is the Word, the gospel.

But they clearly are two different things. As you said, Mark is preaching about the Gospel and James is talking about believing in one God... those are separate issues.

 

[jasoncran]

:crazy it's simple believe can also mean to acknowledge, i believe that the sun is 98 million miles away, but that may not be true.

the devil says yes the lord is real and powerful, but wont surrender to him, and has no oppurtunity to do so,

this is all that verse means. nothing more nothing less, if the devils aren't condemned then why is hell created for them then cast into gehenna?

 

[whirlwind]

But...they are not about two different things. They are about belief. As I wrote to Free....


I don't see them in different contexts at all. In Mark the subject is preaching the gospel and believing in that gospel. What is the gospel? The Word. Who is the Word. Jesus Christ. In James the devils believe that "there is one God." Do they believe in another God? No...they "]believest that there is one God." That God is the Word, the gospel.

But they clearly are two different things. As you said, Mark is preaching about the Gospel and James is talking about believing in one God... those are separate issues.

Mark is about preaching the gospel and "those that believeth not shall be damned." He is the gospel, He is the Word, He is Christ, He is God. The devils believe there is one God.

Maybe what is meant is one must not simply believe in God but believe in the "message of" the gospel. But, is that written anywhere? Isn't it written that one must believe in Him? Does it say one must believe in the Gospel?