THE DOWNFALL OF ELECTRIC VEHICLES?

[jerry63935]

People should always walk there talk otherwise they will never be taken seriously. Have to lead by example. If someone promotes lowering emissions and I see them sailing everywhere and driving an electric vehicle then I would give them credibility for there words.

agreed but this is do as i say not as i do

 

[Corn Pop]

I'm more than happy to drive an electric vehicle if someone wants to buy me one. But I'm broke so it's my petroleum car for now, and gas prices just make me more broke so I won't be getting an electric vehicle anytime soon.

 

[jasonc]

I'm not anti ev per SE.just not a fan of s mandate and well even gas cars have alot of electronics .

 

[WIP]

A hybrid Volt ? Not the full electric Bolt ? Hybrid cars make a lot more sence to me than total dependence on a battery pack .

Definitely agree with this, especially here in the northern climate.

 

[jerry63935]

I'm more than happy to drive an electric vehicle if someone wants to buy me one. But I'm broke so it's my petroleum car for now, and gas prices just make me more broke so I won't be getting an electric vehicle anytime soon.

gas prices put a big whammy on us to they are coming down i bought gas for 3.69 it should be at least 2.69 diesel is out of control drivers spending thousand dollars fuel up

 

[tim-from-pa]

Do you own an electric car?
Would you buy one?
Are you having problems with it?


A survey discovered that charging logistics is the primary reason why Americans aren’t buying electric vehicles.

Consumer Reports, which said it surveyed around 8,000 Americans, found that 61 percent said they wouldn’t seek to own an electric vehicle because of charging logistics while 55 percent cited the number of miles a vehicle can go per charge. Another 52 percent said that the costs of buying and maintaining an electric vehicle are cost-prohibitive.

Another 46 percent of the respondents stated they have not heard of any financial incentives available for owners of electric vehicles.

“We found that 14 percent of American drivers say they would ‘definitely’ buy or lease an electric-only vehicle if they were to buy a vehicle today,” said Consumer Reports. “That’s up markedly from the 4 percent who said the same in a 2020 nationally representative survey from CR of 3,392 licensed U.S. drivers.”

According to recent figures from Kelly Blue Book, the average price of a new electric vehicle hovered at roughly $56,000. In contrast, the average price of a new compact was about $25,000 at about the same time. The average price of a new, non-electric SUV was $34,000, while the electric version was nearly $45,000.

Meanwhile, a recent report from data analysis and advisory firm J.D. Power, however, found that electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids may have more problems than internal combustion engines.

While internal combustion engine vehicles averaged 175 problems per 100 vehicles, this jumped to 239 among plug-in hybrids and 240 among electric vehicles, a June 28 press release of the J.D. Power 2022 U.S. Initial Quality Study stated. Lower scores represented higher-quality vehicles.

Tesla models, which were included in the industry calculation for the first time, averaged 226 problems per 100 vehicles, according to the report.

“Automakers continue to launch vehicles that are more and more technologically complex in an era in which there have been many shortages of critical components to support them,” David Amodeo, director of global automotive at J.D. Power, according to the press release.

source: The Epoch Times

The technology is not there yet. The physics don't always work out (although pro-electric experts say it does) but any time there is a conversion of energy from one form to another there is loss. Electric cars make no sense yet since the energy used is now dependent on electric power plants so the power plant is now effectively burning as much fuel as the car takes, maybe more. They only make sense if the power plants are also renewable but again, it's not all there yet - just look at Texas and their severe electrical shortage due to renewable replacement.

A good scientist understands that there are various forms of energy with today's technology. In physics you have mechanical, thermo, electrical, etc etc energy and each has their place. But when there is an ignorant and unsubstantiated push for one kind, then it becomes the cult of ideologues, not something understood as science understands it despite claiming there is science to it. How do I know? Take COVID, for example. When they find whatever they don't recommend does not work, they say, "The science has changed." I retorted, "Did Newton's Laws of motion also change?" No wonder scientists and doctors in governmental agencies are quitting in droves due to the politics of scientific ignorance pushed onto them and they are too embarrassed to stand for something they know is wrong.

 

[Corn Pop]

Why is there no food?. Its only trees around. Why dont parks have fruit trees, at least hungry people could eat. With all the thousands of plants around the city not a single fruit tree.

 

[stovebolts]

Read the link here about towing with an electric truck , not ready for primetime it seems .
Ford Lightning Towing Test Shows Serious Problems
But the GMC may be better , I hope .

Chevy is so far ahead of Ford they are not even in the same league. Chevy is right next to Tesla when it comes to battery packs and dare I say Chevy will surpass them shortly. As far as Autonomous vehicles, nobody will be able to even come close to Chevy with their new release.

A hybrid Volt ? Not the full electric Bolt ? Hybrid cars make a lot more sence to me than total dependence on a battery pack .

Yeah, like yourself, he likes the hybrid. No range anxiety!

 

[Mister E]

The technology is not there yet. The physics don't always work out (although pro-electric experts say it does) but any time there is a conversion of energy from one form to another there is loss. Electric cars make no sense yet since the energy used is now dependent on electric power plants so the power plant is now effectively burning as much fuel as the car takes, maybe more. They only make sense if the power plants are also renewable but again, it's not all there yet - just look at Texas and their severe electrical shortage due to renewable replacement.

A good scientist understands that there are various forms of energy with today's technology. In physics you have mechanical, thermo, electrical, etc etc energy and each has their place. But when there is an ignorant and unsubstantiated push for one kind, then it becomes the cult of ideologues, not something understood as science understands it despite claiming there is science to it. How do I know? Take COVID, for example. When they find whatever they don't recommend does not work, they say, "The science has changed." I retorted, "Did Newton's Laws of motion also change?" No wonder scientists and doctors in governmental agencies are quitting in droves due to the politics of scientific ignorance pushed onto them and they are too embarrassed to stand for something they know is wrong.

They literally have “super charging stations” in remote locations running off diesel generators. In the minds of the woke virtue signaling green weenies- this magically becomes “clean energy” when they plug their cars in.

 

[jasonc]

Chevy is so far ahead of Ford they are not even in the same league. Chevy is right next to Tesla when it comes to battery packs and dare I say Chevy will surpass them shortly. As far as Autonomous vehicles, nobody will be able to even come close to Chevy with their new release.

Yeah, like yourself, he likes the hybrid. No range anxiety!

Don't get going on gm
As a parts guy .those mighty fine coolant and fuel hose problems. Not that ford or Chrysler don't do as well.

That is why I will eschew electric .they will build them to fail.

A friend who builds electric bikes and scooters at church has refused to buy new Chrysler coolant hoses as it would in a few years of that fail exactly as designed .he made his own.

 

[Mister E]

I'll buy an alternative energy car when the reality lives up to the promise.

For example, when you can generate electricity without petroleum I'll buy electric. If you can fuel your car without fuel, I'll go for one of those. Give me solar panels on the roof that will eliminate the need to stop and sit and recharge-- I'll buy that. Or a fuel cell that burns only hydrogen and emits only oxygen. That would cynch the deal.

But now? It's silly. We cannot produce the electricity to power these vehicles without the fuels they supposedly don't run on. Just because you plug a cord into a socket doesn't mean a thing because you can follow that cord right back to coal, or diesel, or natural gas. Hydro electric is great. Nuclear generated power is great-- but unless you live near one of those facilities, the electric grid can't support getting that power to you. It can't be transmitted over long distances without power loss, and risk (when lines go down the earth burns).

So plugging in your car might give you a good feeling, but it's a false notion that you are doing anything good beyond that feeling you get. Lithium is not "clean energy" and the power to power those lithium batteries isn't coming from a windmill.

There's a new Tesla Roadster coming out with the promise of a one thousand mile range- I still wouldn't buy it, even though I quite like the appearance. But the "appearance" simply doesn't live up to the reality of life. I can stop and fill my gas-powered car or truck whenever I need to and it takes only five minutes to get back on the road and I can drive anywhere I want across the whole of the US and Canada in this manner. No electric vehicle can match that convenience.

 

[jasonc]

I'll buy an alternative energy car when the reality lives up to the promise.

For example, when you can generate electricity without petroleum I'll buy electric. If you can fuel your car without fuel, I'll go for one of those. Give me solar panels on the roof that will eliminate the need to stop and sit and recharge-- I'll buy that. Or a fuel cell that burns only hydrogen and emits only oxygen. That would cynch the deal.

But now? It's silly. We cannot produce the electricity to power these vehicles without the fuels they supposedly don't run on. Just because you plug a cord into a socket doesn't mean a thing because you can follow that cord right back to coal, or diesel, or natural gas. Hydro electric is great. Nuclear generated power is great-- but unless you live near one of those facilities, the electric grid can't support getting that power to you. It can't be transmitted over long distances without power loss, and risk (when lines go down the earth burns).

So plugging in your car might give you a good feeling, but it's a false notion that you are doing anything good beyond that feeling you get. Lithium is not "clean energy" and the power to power those lithium batteries isn't coming from a windmill.

There's a new Tesla Roadster coming out with the promise of a one thousand mile range- I still wouldn't buy it, even though I quite like the appearance. But the "appearance" simply doesn't live up to the reality of life. I can stop and fill my gas-powered car or truck whenever I need to and it takes only five minutes to get back on the road and I can drive anywhere I want across the whole of the US and Canada in this manner. No electric vehicle can match that convenience.

View attachment 14440

If you live in Florida I know the few power plants and it's grids are gonna tell you which one powers.

My job area and the old grid .posted by Orlando per contract but ran by fpl.kissimme grid it has its own .ft.pierce shares power with Orlando and other fmpa cities .

 

[Edward]

One thing I don't quite understand is the negativity around EV's. Whenever the subject is brought up it immediately invokes negative comments. What does it matter to me if someone else owns an EV? Did we go through this when cordless drills first hit the market? How about electric chain saws, lawn mowers, weed whips, bicycles, etc.? Around here, electric ION ice augers are the newest craze in ice fishing. People love them.

I think they could be great for short daily commutes. Less noise pollution, lower emissions in city limits so reduced smog, no water dripping out of exhaust so reduced incidents of black ice in winter, faster warm-up for riders during winter commutes, and more. It's very common to see people using golf carts to get around town instead of jumping into their ICE vehicle. It's quick and convenient to just get in and go without needing to warm up the engine.

EV's do have considerably fewer moving parts to wear out compared to the ICE vehicles. No engine or transmission required. I worked as an electrical designer for an industrial packaging machinery manufacturer for 30 years. For the last 15 years that I was working, we redesigned our machines to use electric motors for all motion control, eliminating about 75% of all moving wear parts. The motors were brushless so there weren't even any brushes in the motors to wear out. In fact, downtime was reduced and this sat well with our customers.

On the other hand they may not be the most practical in cold climates for driving any distance. Anyone that lives and works in cold climates understands the negative impact cold temperatures have on batteries as well as fuel economy of ICE vehicles. Battery chemistry doesn't work as efficiently when its cold significantly reducing capacity and at the same time vehicles demand more power from the battery as the temperature gets colder. It's a double whammy.

Lithium Ion batteries also have issues charging when too cold (<32° F) or too hot (>120° F). If I leave my cell phone sitting on the seat in my truck during winter and then plug it in, I usually get a notification that charging has been halted because the phone battery is too cold. To compensate for this issue, EV's can be equipped with battery heaters but naturally, this puts added demand on an already compromised battery.

I recently was talking with a friend that is a Ford auto salesman and I asked him about EV's. He said they'd sell a lot of them if they could get them. Right now, just as with ICE vehicles, they are struggling to get new ones. I then asked him about the winter. He said they do have their drawbacks there. I live roughly midway between Fargo, ND and Minneapolis, MN which are about 200 miles apart. He told me that when they were driving some EV's from Fargo to Minneapolis while the temperature outside was near -20° F, The drivers were forced to stop in at their dealership to recharge before finishing the journey.

There are advantages and disadvantages for sure but why are so many people against them? What does it matter that our neighbor has an EV? It's just another new product to hit the market.

It doesn't matter if my neighbor has an EV. Why should it? But EV's have been out long enough now to get some real world feedback and info. Range of driiving compared to gas vehicles seems to be poor. Mechanics are working on EV's just as much as gas vehicles, and their newish! And repairs are expensive!

And where is the nearest quick charge station? I dunno but gas stations are everywhere.

I don't know, but I wonder if EV's burn more often than GV's? All that amperage and everything electrical...I dunno.

 

[jasonc]

Raise the voltage the less amps you need .

220v and .5 amp produces the same power as 110 at 1 amp

 

[Edward]

The real green alternative fuel for the planet that does not use any carbon fuels to generate is talked about in scripture!

Isaiah 40:31
31 But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.../

So we'll be able to fly one day?! Perhaps during the Millenium? I have had so many dreams about flying that I can not count them all! I even dreamed a series of dream where Jesus Himself was teaching me how to fly, and how to land on people's roofs without disturbing them, Lol! What a dream.

 

[WIP]

Raise the voltage the less amps you need .

220v and .5 amp produces the same power as 110 at 1 amp

Higher voltage and less amps is true but power remains the same. The only advantage to lowering amps needed is it allows for smaller wire sizing.

 

[Edward]

Raise the voltage the less amps you need .

220v and .5 amp produces the same power as 110 at 1 amp

I always thought was funny how they use that as a sales point. "The 220 volt model save you electric by using half the amps!"...Except they always forget to mention, oh yeah, with the 220v you get an extra leg added to it and it pulls half the amps too!. So 1/2 + 1/2 = 1 so it works out the same.

 

[WIP]

I always thought was funny how they use that as a sales point. "The 220 volt model save you electric by using half the amps!"...Except they always forget to mention, oh yeah, with the 220v you get an extra leg added to it and it pulls half the amps too!. So 1/2 + 1/2 = 1 so it works out the same.

We don't buy amps, we buy power calculated as volt-amps.

 

[Mister E]

We don't buy amps, we buy power calculated as volt-amps.

That's 'kind of true' -- We buy "power" -you can call it "watts" or 'volt-amps' or "horsepower'-- it doesn't matter what you want to call it, you are purchasing the energy required to do something. And in reality-- you are buying time. That's why your power bill is rated in kilowatt-hours.

 

[hawkman]

There's a new Tesla Roadster coming out with the promise of a one thousand mile range- I still wouldn't buy it, even though I quite like the appearance. But the "appearance" simply doesn't live up to the reality of life. I can stop and fill my gas-powered car or truck whenever I need to and it takes only five minutes to get back on the road and I can drive anywhere I want across the whole of the US and Canada in this manner. No electric vehicle can match that convenience.

Zero to sixty in 1.9 seconds ! Come on, that would be fun Mister E , at least till we need new tires :halo .

https://www.tesla.com/roadster