The Dreaded Abortion

[Lewis]

I had posted this in the wrong place, so I am reposting it.

Story from CNN

Court blocks order that prison take inmate for abortion
KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP)  An attorney for a pregnant inmate who wants an abortion said time is running out for his client to have the procedure while the courts decide her case.

The U.S. Supreme Court late Friday temporarily blocked a federal judge's ruling that ordered Missouri prison officials to drive the woman to a clinic on Saturday for an abortion. (Related story: Federal judge overrules state prison policy)

Justice Clarence Thomas, acting alone, granted the temporary stay pending a further decision by himself or the full court.

Missouri state law forbids spending tax dollars to facilitate an abortion. However, U.S. District Judge Dean Whipple ruled Thursday that the prison system was blocking the woman from exercising her right to an abortion and ordered that the woman be taken to the clinic Saturday.

The woman's attorney, James Felakos of the American Civil Liberties Union, said in court papers that the woman is running out of time because she is 16 weeks to 17 weeks pregnant, and Missouri bars abortions after 22 weeks.

The woman, whose name was not disclosed in court papers, has said she will borrow money for the abortion from friends and family but cannot afford to pay for transportation.

Under a policy adopted in July, Missouri's prison system does not provide transportation or security for inmates seeking abortions. The policy is based on a state law that prohibits the spending of public funds "for the purpose of performing or assisting an abortion not necessary to save the life of the mother."

State officials argued that their policy is reasonable because of the costs and security risks of transporting inmates outside for procedures the officials said are not medically necessary.

The state estimated it would cost $350 plus fuel for two guards to accompany the woman on the 80-mile trip from her cell in Vandalia to a St. Louis clinic.

"It is not the prison that has imposed the burden, but the prisoner's violation of the law that resulted in her incarceration that has imposed the burden," Attorney General Jay Nixon's office said.

In court papers, the woman said she discovered she was pregnant shortly after being arrested in California in July on a Missouri parole violation. She said she tried to get an abortion in California but was transferred back to Missouri before it could be performed.

Justice Thomas handles appeals from the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which includes Missouri. He could lift the stay over the weekend, after reviewing more legal arguments.

It is not uncommon for the Supreme Court to issue temporary stays that give both sides time to file more arguments.
CNN
_________________

 

[Muad'Dib]

Well, I don't disagree with the decision. There was really no alternative. If the abortion was necessary to save the mother's life, I could understand. But otherwise, it is only fair to stay the abortion until the case is heard. I understand there is a small window, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles. Allowing the abortion is tantamount to siding with the mother before the case is even heard. That's upsurd. And as stated above, the woman put herself in that position by breaking the law.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Its so awesome how everyone thinks they can tell other people to have more babies we dont need in our overpopulated world when....

You have starving children that ARE ALREADY BORN in Africa that get NO help from the screaming Religious Right....

Why not shut up on abortion and shout out against the human injustice in these impoverished nations....

O thats right I almost forgot..... you would have to actually DO something about the problem rather than whine about other peoples personal choices....

Give me a break..... :roll:

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Its so awesome how everyone thinks they can tell other people to have more babies we dont need in our overpopulated world when....

You have starving children that ARE ALREADY BORN in Africa that get NO help from the screaming Religious Right....

Why not shut up on abortion and shout out against the human injustice in these impoverished nations....

O thats right I almost forgot..... you would have to actually DO something about the problem rather than whine about other peoples personal choices....

Give me a break..... :roll:

Hello Soma:
We cannot justify killing a human being (an evil) based upon the sin of Sodom (ignoring those in need- an evil, also).

Your comments are to be taken to heart, in terms of conservative Christian hypocrisy- though I think you err by inferring that many of these aren't doing something. The Mercy Ships are a grand example of love in action, as is the work of countless other Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox missions in the Third World.

What I'm saying is that you have, in my opinion, artificially placed one ethic against another. Preserving unborn life is good, and preserving those who have been born is good. We have a moral imperative, those of us with means, to look after those with no means.

That includes the powerless infants in utero, in my very ferevntly held opinion.

So I will raise my voice on both issues. And I'll dip into my checkbook as well, cuz talk is cheap but mercy ain't.

 

[Soma-Sight]

What I'm saying is that you have, in my opinion, artificially placed one ethic against another. Preserving unborn life is good, and preserving those who have been born is good. We have a moral imperative, those of us with means, to look after those with no means.

Ive never aborted a baby and I DO support Christian Childrens fund.....

The point I am trying to make is the fact that all I hear on the conservative radio stations and TBN is the "outrage" over someones personla choice while we have kids dying by the miilions in Africa with nare a whimper.......

It is a 10 : 1 ratio if you ask me.... 10 for the anti abortion people and 1 share for the ACTUAL starving BORN children in the world......

If abortion is made illegal do you think it will stop it???????? NO! In fact it will become a new "black market" trade for drop out med students and instead of being in a safe situation the mother will run the risk of infection and death.....

Did making weed illegal stop people from smoking????

No... The same it shall be for abortion......

 

[Orthodox Christian]

What I'm saying is that you have, in my opinion, artificially placed one ethic against another. Preserving unborn life is good, and preserving those who have been born is good. We have a moral imperative, those of us with means, to look after those with no means.

Ive never aborted a baby and I DO support Christian Childrens fund.....

The point I am trying to make is the fact that all I hear on the conservative radio stations and TBN is the "outrage" over someones personla choice while we have kids dying by the miilions in Africa with nare a whimper.......

It is a 10 : 1 ratio if you ask me.... 10 for the anti abortion people and 1 share for the ACTUAL starving BORN children in the world......

If abortion is made illegal do you think it will stop it???????? NO! In fact it will become a new "black market" trade for drop out med students and instead of being in a safe situation the mother will run the risk of infection and death.....

Did making weed illegal stop people from smoking????

No... The same it shall be for abortion......

Again, my friend, I agree that there is a gross underconcern for those who are already born.

This, however, is not a sufficient or necessary argument for the abandonment of millions of human infants to the knife, forceps, and acid/saline burn.

No, you see, chronic may take its toll on its user, but smoking a bowl is in no way comparable to the death of a human child. You see, it is beyond argument that at some point in time between conception and birth, a human becomes. There is no definition at present time as to when that becoming is. If, in fact it is within the first trimester, then thousands of humans are being 'therapeutically' killed. If it is earlier- and I believe with all my heart that it is- then millions are being murdered each year.

I don't look at the magnitude of Rwanda and then say to myself "well, the bombing of 3500 Serbian Christians By Bill Clinton, antiChrist, is nothing."
No, the unspeakable horror that occured in Rwanda does not lessen the impact of a single murder by one iota.

So I respond with vigor- not that our less fortunate brethren need to be cared for, or that the conservative Christian establishment does not deserve to have their hypocrisy pointed out- but in so doing, let us not lose sight of the the tragedy that occurs in comfortable offices in every city every day.

 

[Lewis]

So Soma, you are alright with abortion, because you keep saying someone else's choice. God did not give that right, to anyone. Unless He says so. That unborn child is a person. When I was 18 my oldest son's mother had one, I tried to stop her but I gave up to easy as I look back on it now, and I was young and stupid. I should have tried harder. And even she regretts it now. That baby girl would have been around 32 or 33 now. And I think about that from time to time. I did not think about God at all back then, and she didn't ether. But Jesus has showed me that this is wrong. But now I will speak out for these babies who can't speak for themselves, because it is just plain wrong to kill these babies. And this partial birth abortions make me angry to no end. Pulling the baby part of the way out, and inserting a probe into the base of the babies skull. And I could not ever meet one of these doctors who do this procedure, because a fight will break out. Yeah I know I am a Christian. But it is a time for Christians to fight too. And that is for a blatant injustice such as Partial Birth Abortion.

 

[Lewis]

Story from CNN

Miers supported ban on most abortions
Supreme Court nominee pledged to support pro-life group in 1989

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers pledged support in 1989 for a constitutional amendment banning abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother, according to material given to the Senate on Tuesday.

As a candidate for the Dallas city council, Miers also signaled support for the overall agenda of Texans United for Life -- agreeing she would support legislation restricting abortions if the Supreme Court ruled that states could ban abortions and would participate in "pro-life rallies and special events."

Miers made her views known in a candidate questionnaire the White House submitted to the Senate Judiciary Committee, which is expected to hold hearings on her Supreme Court nomination next month. The one-page questionnaire was filled out, but unsigned, although the Bush administration affirmed its authenticity.

"The answers clearly reflect that Harriet Miers is opposed to Roe v. Wade," said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a Democrat and only woman on the Judiciary Committee. "This raises very serious concerns about her ability to fairly apply the law without bias in this regard. It will be my intention to question her very carefully about these issues."

GOP Sens. Kay Bailey Hutchison and John Cornyn of Texas, who support Miers, say the questionnaire was written while Miers was a politician, and she would leave political decisions behind as a judge. "That information is interesting, and some people may draw their own conclusions from it, but I believe that Harriet Miers will be the type of judge who will not attempt to pursue a personal or political agenda from the bench," Cornyn said.

That view was echoed at the White House where presidential spokesman Scott McClellan said that Miers answered the questions as a candidate during the course of a campaign.

"The role of a judge is very different from the role of a candidate or a political officeholder," McClellan said.

"Harriet Miers, just like Chief Justice (John) Roberts, recognizes that personal views and ideology and religion have no role to play when it comes to making decisions on the bench," he said. "Your role as a judge is to look at all the facts and look at the law and apply the law to that case."

The questionnaire also revealed that the White House was considering Miers for its first Supreme Court nomination along with now-Chief Justice John Roberts.

"When Justice Sandra Day O'Connor first announced her desire to retire, I was asked whether my name should be considered," she said in the questionnaire. "I indicated at that time that I did not want to be considered."
Qualifications questioned

The document surfaced as the White House struggled to reassure conservatives who have been critical of Miers' appointment, depicting her as a crony of President Bush who lacks the background or qualifications to sit on the high court.

There was fresh evidence of trouble for Miers during the day, when Sen. David Vitter, R-Louisiana, issued a statement saying, "My top questions are: does she have a consistent and well-grounded conservative judicial philosophy and what objective evidence is there of it from her life's work?"

Miers, 60, meanwhile, continued meeting privately with senators during the day, part of a round of courtesy calls that precede the opening of confirmation hearings.

"With her conservative judicial philosophy, she understands that judges must not legislate from the bench," said Jay Sekulow, chief counsel of the conservative American Center for Law and Justice and a Miers supporter. "And while she may hold personal views that underscore the value of human life, it would be wrong for those views to be used against her in the confirmation process."

The 1989 questionnaire was designed to gauge candidates' views on the drive to ban most abortions, either by constitutional amendment or by state law in the event the Supreme Court overturned a 1973 ruling that established abortion rights.

"If Congress passes a Human Life Amendment to the Constitution that would prohibit abortion except when it was necessary to prevent the death of the mother, would you actively support its ratification by the Texas Legislature," asked an April 1989 questionnaire sent out by the Texans United for Life group.

Miers checked "yes" to that question, and all of the group's questions, including whether she would oppose the use of public moneys for abortions and whether she would use her influence to keep "pro-abortion" people off city health boards and commissions.
The swing vote

The abortion issue hangs over Miers' nomination much as it did over the appointment of Chief Justice John Roberts earlier this year. The situations are different, however -- Roberts replaced the late William Rehnquist, who voted to overturn the 1973 abortion ruling. Miers would succeed retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who has voted to uphold it.

"A candidate taking a political position in the course of a campaign is different from the role of a judge making a ruling in the judicial process." said Jim Dyke, a White House spokesman.

Miers' nomination has been met with skepticism from some conservatives, who say she has little by way of a record to establish her views on abortion, affirmative action and other issues. The Texans United for Life questionnaire is additional evidence of how Miers feels about abortion, with some of her supporters assuring conservatives that they believe she would overturn the Supreme Court's landmark Roe v. Wade ruling.

Miers also bought a $150 ticket to a Texans United for Life dinner in 1989 and took a leadership role in trying to get the American Bar Association to reconsider its abortion-rights position in 1993.
No assurances on Roe

Senators say Miers has insisted that she has not given anyone any assurances that she would overturn Roe v. Wade if given the chance.

"She said nobody knows my views on Roe v. Wade. Nobody can speak for me on Roe v. Wade," said Sen. Charles Schumer, D-New York, on Monday, referring to the case that guaranteed women's constitutional right to an abortion, setting a legal precedent that abortion foes have been trying to overturn ever since.

In the questionnaire that she turned in the Judiciary Committee, Miers answered "no" to questions asking whether anyone during the nomination process discussed specific cases or legal issues with her to get an assurance on her positions. She also answered "no" to whether she told anyone how she might rule if confirmed.

Miers also revealed that her law license was suspended in the District of Columbia earlier this year for non-payment of bar dues. "I immediately sent the dues to remedy the delinquency," she wrote. "The nonpayment was not intentioned, and I corrected the situation upon receiving the letter."

 

[Soma-Sight]

So Soma, you are alright with abortion, because you keep saying someone else's choice.

Lewis.....

No I am NOT ALLRIGHT with abortion.....!!!!!.....

I am stating the glaring Truth that if made illegal..... all this will accomplish is the formation a of black market where med school drop outs and pseudo doctors may not only abort babies but KILL the mother....

The same is true of Crack Cocaine.....

Any junkie on the street does not know what he is buying because it is not REGULATED by reputable sources that understand what the "product" is.......

Of course like always the rich will get away with it..... If they want their white daughter to give up the interracial baby all they have to do is write and check and send her to sweden for the operation!!!!!

The poor are always the ones that get shafted by new and illogical regulations

 

[Lewis]

Soma, abortion has been illegal from the beginning, because it is against God's laws. Before abortion was made legal by man, which is not legal, because the Word of God says it is not. They were doing back room abortions in America. I even knew a woman who tried to give herself an abortion with a coat hanger, and she died, about 20 something years ago. One of my friends took his girl friend to a doctor who performed an abortion on her before it became legal by man here in America. So there will be nothing new, about under the table abortions.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Soma, abortion has been illegal from the beginning, because it is against God's laws. Before abortion was made legal by man, which is not legal, because the Word of God says it is not. They were doing back room abortions in America. I even knew a woman who tried to give herself an abortion with a coat hanger, and she died, about 20 something years ago. One of my friends took his girl friend to a doctor who performed an abortion on her before it became legal by man here in America. So there will be nothing new, about under the table abortions.

So why make it illegal?????

I am not burning you at the stake for listening to occult inspired music??????????!!!!!!!!!!!

You just told me that making it illegal will NOT STOP IT so whats the point?????

Object all you want but this is an earth of FREE WILL and if a doctor is willing to do it than a woman that chooses to do so has as much right as a man that listens to occultic guitar music by ol Jimi....

 

[Soma-Sight]

Soma, abortion has been illegal from the beginning, because it is against God's laws. Before abortion was made legal by man, which is not legal, because the Word of God says it is not. They were doing back room abortions in America. I even knew a woman who tried to give herself an abortion with a coat hanger, and she died, about 20 something years ago. One of my friends took his girl friend to a doctor who performed an abortion on her before it became legal by man here in America. So there will be nothing new, about under the table abortions.

Yes and the music you listen to would also warrant DEATH by the OT standard of "Sorcery".......

So should we enforce that too??????

 

[Vic C.]

Object all you want but this is an earth of FREE WILL and if a doctor is willing to do it than a woman that chooses to do so has as much right as a man that listens to occultic guitar music by ol Jimi....

Hey! I listened to Jimi and here I am, a born-again, pro life Christian. It didn't cause me to embrace the occult. I'm not the only one either.

"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
"There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke.
But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."

:-D

 

[Lewis]

Soma, NO MUSIC WAS INSPIRED BY A CULT. And I mean none, man takes it and fits it into what ever he is into. Certain cults will take, like say metal and make it their own.

 

[Soma-Sight]

Soma, NO MUSIC WAS INSPIRED BY A CULT. And I mean none, man takes it and fits it into what ever he is into. Certain cults will take, like say metal and make it their own.

Heheh,

Fair enough fellas....

I will agree that abortion is no bueno.....

Of course you could always listen to "Slayer's" God Hates us All and wonder where the inspiration came for that one.....

 

[Lewis]

Of course you could always listen to "Slayer's" God Hates us All and wonder where the inspiration came for that one.....

Soma, that came out of the mind of man, Like Paul said in Romans 14:14 nothing is bad with initself, that is a principle.

 

[Muad'Dib]

Its so awesome how everyone thinks they can tell other people to have more babies we dont need in our overpopulated world when....

You have starving children that ARE ALREADY BORN in Africa that get NO help from the screaming Religious Right....

Why not shut up on abortion and shout out against the human injustice in these impoverished nations....

So we should be okay with killing fetuses, because people are already suffering? Sacrifice some to save others? The conditions of people in Africa is horrendous and needs to be addressed. But using it as an excuse for abortion is disgusting. :x

 

[Soma-Sight]

So we should be okay with killing fetuses, because people are already suffering? Sacrifice some to save others? The conditions of people in Africa is horrendous and needs to be addressed. But using it as an excuse for abortion is disgusting.

Its called a glaring contradiction my friend!!!

Before you whine and moan about SOMEONE ELSES CHOICE to have a child.....

Do your part to help the ones that ARE ALREADY BORN....

Do you help those in need while you judge others from the soapbox??????

Otherwise you are as a resounding gong or Rush Limbau soundclip.....

Both meaningless and without heart!

 

[bibleberean]

So we should be okay with killing fetuses, because people are already suffering? Sacrifice some to save others? The conditions of people in Africa is horrendous and needs to be addressed. But using it as an excuse for abortion is disgusting.

Its called a glaring contradiction my friend!!!

Before you whine and moan about SOMEONE ELSES CHOICE to have a child.....

Do your part to help the ones that ARE ALREADY BORN....

Do you help those in need while you judge others from the soapbox??????

Otherwise you are as a resounding gong or Rush Limbau soundclip.....

Both meaningless and without heart!

How do you know they don't help those who are not already born?

Does a person have to be involved in charity before they can say murder is wrong? :o

 

[Soma-Sight]

How do you know they don't help those who are not already born?

Does a person have to be involved in charity before they can say murder is wrong?

If you are standing on a soapbox telling others they cant do this or that to their OWN bodies while you IGNORE the ALREADY BORN CHILDREN THAT ARE STARVING in the streets of Africa or even this country......

You are a "resounding gong" and not worth two seconds of true believers time as you are in danger of being called out as a "GOAT" as according to Matt 25.......

1 Corinthians 13:1

[ Love ] If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.


If you whine, swear, and have "pregnancies aka temper tamtrums" about abortion and do not lift a finger to help the BORN children of the world you are guilty of a GRAVE SIN!!!!!!

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'





BB,

Are YOU helping the disfortunate ones in the world as commanded by your God or do you merely judge others PERSONAL CHOICES.....

Would you be willing to take in the "unwanted children" that would be aborted otherwise????????