peace4all said:
I truly have difficulties standing up for those that are pro choice, because I am not pro choice.
Also, I cannot stand up for pro life, Because I am not pro life.
I am pro in the middle.
I do know that most abortions are because "well, we just don't want it"
and i do disagree with those.
Fair enough, thank you for clarifying your position, and I will note that
P4A said:
one I am very leany on is Rape offspring.
In some cases, is it fair?
Exactly the kind of complicated world we live in- which is why I included the example of twelve soldiers risking their lives to save one. Their are ideals that seem illogical, yet we instinctively know that they are essential.
P4A said:
I am more likely to say that a 20 year old rape victim should have to bear the child, however, if the same victim were say, 15. i would say no they shouldn't.
If i were to write the laws on abortion, there would be a huge book with all the examples I can think of. and it sucks.
Naturally, the indignity suffered by a rape victim is a moving and compelling argument. However, we ask the rape vicitm to suffer the indignity of courtrooms and exposure for the good of all (testify). The question still remains: when does a human become a human? And when does that human deserve protection from termination? Would you suggest that our 15 year old should have the option to kill the baby after it's born, up to 2 years of age, should the shame of being a single mother be too much to bear?
P4A said:
I am also very conflicted about the rights of the unborn, and the newly born.
Is it fair to have a mother smoke, or drink, or eat unhealthy, therefore possibly damaging the fetus?
The key to resolving these questions is found in the definition of who is human and therefore has due process rights. The cowards called Republicans who supposedly stand for the unborn have done nothing to bring the due process issue to the forefront, either. No, they get bettr mileage politically out of "fighting for the rights of the unborn" than actually doing something about it.
I spit on their so-called pro-life stance.
Now again, who is human, and when do they become so? And if they are human, are they not accorded full due process protection (in order to deprive them of life, liberty, or property, there would need to be due process of law and court action to do so. Due process is the very cornerstone of our rights in this society.)
P4A said:
Is it fair to baptize a child at a young age. In that sense, you are not allowing the child to excercise free will, but forcing them into a religion.
arg.. arg. arg.. i should be a pirate.
Every parent has an obligation to impart to their children the best that they know and believe about meaning, purpose, ethic, and morality. Children do not make choices until their teens, developmentally speaking. And to make choices, they must have the full complement of what their parents can teach them, coupled with their parents' best effort to explain alternate views. In this manner, they can make informed choices.
If I, as an Orthodox Christian, did not baptize my children, I would be telling them that the baseline of truth is the secular culture, and that our faith is an embellishment upon it. I find this completely unacceptable. Secularism has its own set of prewsuppositions about ontology, metaphysics, humanity, and morality, each which I find to be highly contradictory, and, quite frankly, deeply self-centered and individualistic.
I teach my children that they are part of something much greater than themselves, which includes the Church/God at the center, as well as concentric outer circles of other people in their community and the society as a whole. Or should I say 'hole'....
You see, I find the enthronement of self and success in the American KMart culture to be profoundly shallow, evil, and deeply offensive. I baptize my children into a community of faith where sacrifice, contemplation, connectedness/interconnectedness is taught, along with transcendant moral and ethical values.
The most imporatnt thing that I have to give to my children began the day they were baptized. Woe to me had I not brought them to be dedicated to God.
Don't think for one second our sacred culture is not filled with Temples and pantheons to numerous other gods. I won't offer my children to the Temple of their own mind, or to the goddess of success.
I say, quite literally, to hell with both.
But I do expose my children to the thinking of the 'other side,' and do so as objectively and thoughtfully as possible. I want them to know the arguments of the atheists better than anyone. I want them to understand the essential tenets of humanism, and contrast those with what they leanr in their faith. I want them to know their history better than any of their peers.
Thus armed, they can make an informed decision, when that time comes around- typically between ages 18-25.
