The "EVENTS" of salvation.

[Cygnus]

I would say some do, most only for a while, but there are some who actually choose to deny the gift of God and never receive it - aka, disobedience by unbelief.

Rom 11:17-24

I've asked you before..why would one choose to reject the gift of God? You never did really answer. You couldn't explain away happenstance and the build up off life experience that allows a person to choose or not choose.

I still maintain that if God regenerates you gives you the ability to come to Christ....you will. And all that was determined before the world was even made.

 

[billybalke]

LITV version is available online here:

http://www.thewordnotes.com/litv/litv.htm
http://studybible.info/version/LITV
or you can use e-sword and locate an LITV module throu a third party.

Let me clarify a couple of things. Our doing the believing {the conviction that the Lord and His Gospel are true, and our obedience to trust the Lord to save us} is not itself the agent, or power, or action that puts us into Christ. The Spirit of the Lord unites us with Christ; He places us into Him. The Scriptures describe these two actions {1. our believing God and 2. His consequent transfer of us into Christ} as believig into Christ.

Knowing and understanding and believing things about God, Jesus Christ, His words, and His just requirement . . . is different than trusting Him by believing into Christ because of those things.

The scripture teaches that baptism (water, a burial) puts us "into" Christ.

 

[dirtfarmer]

The scripture teaches that baptism (water, a burial) puts us "into" Christ.

hello billybalke, dirtfarmer here

I mean no disrespect to you, but 1 Corinthians 12:13 states: " For by one Spirit are we baptized into one body, whether we be Jewor Gentile, whether we be bond or free; and have been made to drink into one Spirit." It is the Spirit that places us "into" Christ, not water baptism.

 

[WIP]

The scripture teaches that baptism (water, a burial) puts us "into" Christ.

Scripture please.

 

[eddif]

hello billybalke, dirtfarmer here

I mean no disrespect to you, but 1 Corinthians 12:13 states: " For by one Spirit are we baptized into one body, whether we be Jewor Gentile, whether we be bond or free; and have been made to drink into one Spirit." It is the Spirit that places us "into" Christ, not water baptism.

Colossians 1:27 KJV
To whom God would make known what isthe riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

I Corinthians 15:45 KJV
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

So?:
Is the quickening spirit the same as the Holy Spirit?

The Godhead has a common goal, but has individual responsibilities and actions.

This is not intended as a (I got it and you
don't). The quickening spirit is a last 6 weeks or so new thing in my mind:
The Holy Spirit is for power to witness.
The quickening spirit may be that which makes us alive.

I do not believe one scripture cancels another. I believe I am a redneck from Mississippi, and I have a lot to learn.

Mull it over / (chew the cud), and get back later.

eddif

 

[billybalke]

Scripture please.

Gal.3:27 for one.

 

[Nathan]

I've asked you before..why would one choose to reject the gift of God? You never did really answer. You couldn't explain away happenstance and the build up off life experience that allows a person to choose or not choose.

I still maintain that if God regenerates you gives you the ability to come to Christ....you will. And all that was determined before the world was even made.

I really did answer you. It all boils down to sin - there is nothing to go deeper than that. Like the saying goes, the buck stops there. Sin is not happenstance, or life experiences - it is the root of separation between God and man. Jesus came to destroy that root(crush the serpents head) and now the power of it has been broken. Now, when people choose to sin, they do so because they love the sin rather than God's righteousness.

Jesus explained it quite fine, and His explanation is good enough for me.

Jhn 3:18-20
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.

People who have seen the light, yet reject it, are condemned. This is the judgement of that condemnation(the reason why they are condemned) - because they love the darkness rather that the light. Darkness is synonymous with sin, light is synonymous with righteousness.

2Pe 2:21
For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

 

[Gregg T]

I would disagree with that order.
There seems to be too much "man" in that path. In that path man seems to be taking his lifetime experience...happenstance...and basing their decision of accepting Christ upon that.

His lifetime experience is not in a vacuum, because the Father is actively pointing us to Christ, and His Spirit is drawing us to the Son; who is now a King and Priest administering the affairs of nations and those in them.

Men are capable of believing God before the Spirit indwells him, gives life to him, resurrects him, or makes him a new creature.

It is the LORD Himself who requires faith in Him before we are saved by Him. Our faith comes about with the Lord's help, certainly, but He does not believe for us. He does not believe in Himself for our salvation, or save us individually before we believe in Him.

There seems to be neglect of our responsibility to be obedient, to repent, and to believe.

 

[Gregg T]

The scripture teaches that baptism (water, a burial) puts us "into" Christ.

A literal baptism in H2O, or the baptism of the Spirit of the LORD?

 

[JLB]

I've asked you before..why would one choose to reject the gift of God?

One reason is because you are threatened with persecution and death, if you don't renounce Him as Lord.


You are familiar with the word martyr?

Someone who is martyred has been killed for their belief.


JLB

 

[Willie T]

One reason is because you are threatened with persecution and death, if you don't renounce Him as Lord.


You are familiar with the word martyr?

Someone who is martyred has been killed for their belief.


JLB

Actually, we have completely REVERSED the original meaning of that word. It might shock you to research it from ancient times.

 

[JLB]

Actually, we have completely REVERSED the original meaning of that word. It might shock you to research it from ancient times.

Someone who witnesses their belief by giving their life.



JLB

 

[Cygnus]

His lifetime experience is not in a vacuum, because the Father is actively pointing us to Christ, and His Spirit is drawing us to the Son; who is now a King and Priest administering the affairs of nations and those in them.

Men are capable of believing God before the Spirit indwells him, gives life to him, resurrects him, or makes him a new creature.

It is the LORD Himself who requires faith in Him before we are saved by Him. Our faith comes about with the Lord's help, certainly, but He does not believe for us. He does not believe in Himself for our salvation, or save us individually before we believe in Him.

There seems to be neglect of our responsibility to be obedient, to repent, and to believe.

I think a lot of that happens at the same moment. That's why in the OP I asked..."Is the events of salvation linear or do some of the events happen at the same time?"

 

[Cygnus]

One reason is because you are threatened with persecution and death, if you don't renounce Him as Lord.


You are familiar with the word martyr?

Someone who is martyred has been killed for their belief.


JLB

So, now salvation is dependent on whether or not your afraid...rather than what Jesus did?

I can see it now...the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are looking down from heaven...and they say, look, we almost have him saved. DARN!!! he got away because he was afraid.

No, if the potter making the jar of clay wants the jar of clay saved...the jar of clay gets saved.

 

[Seabass]

This theological discussion should be interesting...what is the order of events in the process of salvation when it is applied to an individual?

What happens first? Belief or repentance? Regeneration or belief? Repentance or being filled with the Spirit?
I could throw out more salvation buzz terms..but I think you get the point. For example where does faith fit in? At what point are we washed by the blood of Christ?

Is the events of salvation linear or do some of the events happen at the same time?

--Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
--John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
--Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
--Matthew 10:32-33 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
--Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
--Revelation 2:10,26 be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.. he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end

 

[Willie T]

Someone who witnesses their belief by giving their life.



JLB

Not exactly. ☺ Really, do some research on the original Biblical meaning of the word. It will not only amaze you, but it will leave you wondering how many other words we may have done this to.

Actually, Saul (Paul) would have fit the original meaning of the word, "martyr" more than Stephen did....... even though you could get killed for defending (upholding) the law either way, since the word meant a prosecuting witness (upholder) of the law.

 

[Cygnus]

--Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
--John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
--Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
--Matthew 10:32-33 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
--Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
--Revelation 2:10,26 be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.. he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end

How are you going to ever make it in to heaven SeaBass?

 

[chessman]

Paul gives us the example of those Christians who are walking according to the flesh, with the evidence of the life practicing the works of the flesh

The passage you quoted to support your statement, doesn't say those are Christians.

BTW, you didn't answer my question, leaving your case weak.

 

[Seabass]

How are you going to ever make it in to heaven SeaBass?

By being faithful unto death Revelation 2:10

 

[chessman]

I'm not so sure you presented that verse correctly. In the sense you put it every christian who sins is walking according to the flesh. Would you consider them as lost?

I'm sure I presented it correctly. What would it take to make you sure?

Someone (anyone) "in Christ" is not lost, to answer your question. They have been (not might be) set free from the law of sin and death.

Some people believe it, some don't. That doesn't change the facts of what the Text presents, however.

BTW, is a Christian who sins serving the law of God with his mind or with his flesh or both, in your opinion?

Romans 8:2 (NASB) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Verse 2 is there for verse 1. JLB posted v1, then inserted his addition to it which would (if true) completely contradict what v2 says about the proper interpretation of v1.