The Existence of the Godhead

[LaCrum]

L

Jesus is the Christ (Messiah), the Son of the Living God (that is the purpose for John writing his gospel - see Ch 20?).

How?? He did - by fully and continously surrending/releasing Himself to His Father. In fact, it was ABSOLUTELY necessary that it was a genuine man (not God in a body - which is NOT a genuine man) - in order to fulfill the call of God (see ITim2:5, ICor15:21, Heb2, etc.).

This is why Jesus is SO AMAZING!! And, why I worship the man Christ Jesus.

Best,
Anth

So let me get this straight, from your view, Jesus is just a man who was perfect because he was obedient to God’s will?

I have several very serious problems with that, and so does the Bible, if that’s what you’re arguing.

First, why is God in a body (Jesus) not a genuine man? What exactly makes a genuine man? His DNA? His abilities? His supernatural abilities (or lack thereof)?

And, kuddos to Cornelius for providing the great parrells of how Jesus, on multiple occasions, is of as the same of the God of the New Testament. Jesus makes reference to himself on numerous occasions as God. It is blasphemous to say that a mere man could be spoken of in the same way as God, and not be God himself. Not only that, we would never worship someone who claimed to be God and wasn’t.

Jesus was human, he was God in the flesh, this is the FOUNDATION of the New Testament.

Second, if you worship Jesus, who you believe is not God but a man, is that not in direct contradiction of many commandments which state we are not to worship anyone but the Lord our God?

 

[glorydaz]

Here is the gospel

We are suppose to be dead. (That should take care of the "we want to be as God" part. No man can be God )Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, So there you go. I am no longer in the picture, because I have died when I was crucified on the cross with Jesus Christ.

So next step:

Who now lives in this body of mine?

Gal 2:20 .................... but Christ living in me:

So , I guess now we just have to figure out if Christ is indeed God.

What do you think?

C

I'll agree Christ is God and lives in us....that doesn't make us gods, however.

That makes us servants of the one true God.

 

[Cornelius]

I'll agree Christ is God and lives in us....that doesn't make us gods, however.

That makes us servants of the one true God.

Your flesh will never be God. But Christians have God living in them. That means they are not fully human anymore.

Jesus said: Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
So if indeed He lives in you, and if Gal 2: 20 is correct (which it is) then how much of you is God ?

 

[Cornelius]

Your flesh is "son if man" (no God there ) but your spiritual old man is dead and crucified, so that problem is also taken care of at the cross.

Now comes Christ........Son of God and enters us through His Word which finds entrance into our hearts.

WHO lives in your body now ? Man or God ?

 

[Cornelius]

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.

So if I do not live any longer, and Chirst (God) lives in me, WHO am I in this life ? Who will you be like ....................in THIS world ?

1Jn 4:17...............because as he is, even so are we in this world.
Does that say ...........as he is, even so are we in THIS world ? :yes

 

[glorydaz]

I'll agree Christ is God and lives in us....that doesn't make us gods, however.

That makes us servants of the one true God.

Your flesh will never be God. But Christians have God living in them. That means they are not fully human anymore.

Jesus said: Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
So if indeed He lives in you, and if Gal 2: 20 is correct (which it is) then how much of you is God ?

None of me is God. Having Jesus be Lord of my life doesn't make me Lord.

 

[glorydaz]

Your flesh is "son if man" (no God there ) but your spiritual old man is dead and crucified, so that problem is also taken care of at the cross.

Now comes Christ........Son of God and enters us through His Word which finds entrance into our hearts.

WHO lives in your body now ? Man or God ?

Surrendering myself to His leading does not make me God.

 

[Cornelius]

None of me is God. .

That is sad. Ask yourself: Did the Word of God come to me?

If yes, then this is for you:

Jesus said: Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),

So did Jesus lie ?

 

[Cornelius]

Do you know which scripture Jesus was referring to ?

 

[glorydaz]

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.

So if I do not live any longer, and Chirst (God) lives in me, WHO am I in this life ? Who will you be like ....................in THIS world ?

1Jn 4:17...............because as he is, even so are we in this world.
Does that say ...........as he is, even so are we in THIS world ? :yes

Christ humbled Himself....if we start thinking we're gods, pride will have won the day.
We're servants of the Lord....not to think more highly of ourselves than we ought.

I'll say, once again. Just because Christ dwells in us, does not make us a god in any way, shape or form. We are still who we are...we don't become gods...nor are we made to be gods. We're made to worship and serve God. No matter how much we become like Christ, we will never be more than His creation...He alone is worthy to be worshipped as the One True God.

 

[glorydaz]

None of me is God. .

That is sad. Ask yourself: Did the Word of God come to me?

If yes, then this is for you:

Jesus said: Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (and the scripture cannot be broken),

So did Jesus lie ?

It's sad because I don't consider myself a god? The verse you're quoting is speaking of the judges in the OT. Jesus is in no way saying the judges were gods. The same word is translated as god and judges in the OT. If you were to say we're judges, I'd agree with you, but that isn't what you're saying. So don't take pity on me because I refuse to claim man will ever be a god......God forbid we should ever even claim to aspire to such.

 

[glorydaz]

Do you know which scripture Jesus was referring to ?

I certainly do....and I also know to what He is referring. The judges...they aren't gods, either. :biglaugh

 

[Cornelius]

Christ humbled Himself....if we start thinking we're gods, pride will have won the day.
We're servants of the Lord....not to think more highly of ourselves than we ought.

I'll say, once again. Just because Christ dwells in us, does not make us a god in any way, shape or form. We are still who we are...we don't become gods...nor are we made to be gods. We're made to worship and serve God. No matter how much we become like Christ, we will never be more than His creation...He alone is worthy to be worshipped as the One True God.

That sounds very good , but it is not what the Bible teaches.

You are grossly mistaken if you think I am saying that we are gods. You are not understanding this. You are looking at YOURSELF..........but God says, that SELF is what He crucified on the cross with Jesus.

If you then are dead and IF you are indeed being born from above, then :Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. So hopefully that Spirit which is in you is God and if so, what is He allowing to be born in you ?

You are suppose to become LESS so that He can become MORE in you. Now if He that is taking over in you, is not God , then you have the wrong religion, because the gospel teaches that we will be like Him:1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we children of God, and it is not yet made manifest what we shall be. We know that, if he shall be manifested, we shall be like him; for we shall see him even as he is.
So, if you are going to be like God, what will you be ? Again, I am referring to your spirit and not your human flesh.

Do you see that little word "if" ? It means there is a possibility that He might NOT be manifested in some people who call themselves Christians.

So are you being born from above in the Spirit of God. Can you look into the mirror and by faith see the glory of the Lord (Christ Jesus) in that mirror by faith? Are you being transformed into that Whom you are seeing?2Co 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the Spirit.

 

[Cornelius]

The sons of cats are cats
The sons of man are man


Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the revealing of the sons of God.

When God came to fix this planet, He did a perfect job :yes The true gospel is so amazing. The love that God has for His elect is utterly amazing. He is busy recreating His Son Jesus in them all.

Praise God.

C

 

[LaCrum]

Your flesh will never be God. But Christians have God living in them. That means they are not fully human anymore.

I'm going to say that with God living in us we're more fully human then we've ever been before because we are finally on the path to becoming what God created and intended us to be.

 

[Cornelius]

Do you know which scripture Jesus was referring to ?

I certainly do....and I also know to what He is referring. The judges...they aren't gods, either. :biglaugh

Actually no, He was referring to Psalm 82

Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of God; He judgeth among the gods.
Psa 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, And respect the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Psa 82:3 Judge the poor and fatherless: Do justice to the afflicted and destitute.
Psa 82:4 Rescue the poor and needy: Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psa 82:5 They know not, neither do they understand; They walk to and fro in darkness: All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
Psa 82:6 I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
Psa 82:7 Nevertheless ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.
Psa 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth; For thou shalt inherit all the nations.

 

[Cornelius]

Your flesh will never be God. But Christians have God living in them. That means they are not fully human anymore.

I'm going to say that with God living in us we're more fully human then we've ever been before because we are finally on the path to becoming what God created and intended us to be.

That would be Sons of God

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the revealing of the sons of God.

We have to realize that we are not the same as an unsaved person who is void of God. We on the other hand have a spirit which is Christ . We are the tabernacle and inside the tabernacle, lives God.

Ask yourself this question: Is the Body of Christ human or does it belong to Christ. I mean, its His body after all............how can we now make it human? God is not a man.

 

[LaCrum]

That would be Sons of God

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the revealing of the sons of God.

We have to realize that we are not the same as an unsaved person who is void of God. We on the other hand have a spirit which is Christ . We are the tabernacle and inside the tabernacle, lives God.

Ask yourself this question: Is the Body of Christ human or does it belong to Christ. I mean, its His body after all............how can we now make it human? God is not a man.

Well, I do know that through Christ we are now all children and thus heirs of God. So, I think we’re saying the same thing. And the body of Christ, which would be the church, consists of humans who have been redeemed by Christ’s sacrifice, but we are still human. Like I said before, those in a fallen state aren’t what God intended human to be, as opposed to those who are saved. So, we’re more human through Christ then we were without him.

I think what you might be arguing is that we cease to be human, and what I’m arguing is that we finally are becoming human, with Christ as our example of how it’s done.

I think maybe we should define what “human†means though. What do you think of when you say “human�. When we die, do we cease to be “human� I suppose what I’m asking is, what makes us human?

 

[glorydaz]

Do you know which scripture Jesus was referring to ?

I certainly do....and I also know to what He is referring. The judges...they aren't gods, either. :biglaugh

Actually no, He was referring to Psalm 82

Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of God; He judgeth among the gods.
Psa 82:2 How long will ye judge unjustly, And respect the persons of the wicked? Selah.
Psa 82:3 Judge the poor and fatherless: Do justice to the afflicted and destitute.
Psa 82:4 Rescue the poor and needy: Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psa 82:5 They know not, neither do they understand; They walk to and fro in darkness: All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
Psa 82:6 I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.
Psa 82:7 Nevertheless ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes.
Psa 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth; For thou shalt inherit all the nations.

This is speaking of judges..the judges of Israel ..the same as other scripture that uses the same word. Where elohim is used as speaking of representatives of God. If you'll read this portion of scripture, you'll see it's referring to unrighteous judges. Jesus was referring to how the judges were called gods, and yet the Pharisees were rebuking Him and He actually was God.

The same word is used for the judges of Israel in other places in Scripture....as here...

If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges, to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour's goods. For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.

A literal translation would read...

(Young's Literal Translation) 8`If the thief is not found, then the master of the house hath been brought near unto God, whether he hath not put forth his hand against the work of his neighbour; 9for every matter of transgression, for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, for any lost thing of which it is said that it is his; unto God cometh the matter of them both; he whom God doth condemn, he repayeth double to his neighbour.

Or...

then his master must take him before the judges. [a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life. Footnotes:
a.Exodus 21:6 Or before God

literal...

6then hath his lord brought him nigh unto God, and hath brought him nigh unto the door, or unto the side-post, and his lord hath bored his ear with an awl, and he hath served him -- to the age.

If you really think Jesus was speaking of gods, you should read Acts 14:11-15 and Is. 14:12-15.

 

[Cornelius]

That would be Sons of God

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the revealing of the sons of God.

We have to realize that we are not the same as an unsaved person who is void of God. We on the other hand have a spirit which is Christ . We are the tabernacle and inside the tabernacle, lives God.

Ask yourself this question: Is the Body of Christ human or does it belong to Christ. I mean, its His body after all............how can we now make it human? God is not a man.

Well, I do know that through Christ we are now all children and thus heirs of God. So, I think we’re saying the same thing. And the body of Christ, which would be the church, consists of humans who have been redeemed by Christ’s sacrifice, but we are still human. Like I said before, those in a fallen state aren’t what God intended human to be, as opposed to those who are saved. So, we’re more human through Christ then we were without him.

I think what you might be arguing is that we cease to be human, and what I’m arguing is that we finally are becoming human, with Christ as our example of how it’s done.

I think maybe we should define what “human†means though. What do you think of when you say “human�. When we die, do we cease to be “human� I suppose what I’m asking is, what makes us human?

I am not saying that we are human gods You have to be clear on that before trying to understand what I am saying Next you have to meditate on some Biblical truths. What I am talking about is simply what the Bible is saying. The reason we cannot "see" it, is that our "leaders" are not really teaching us that well.

For instance: We think ourselves humble if we say : I cannot ever have a part of me that is God. I am only His humble servant that worships Him for ever and ever.

We do and will worship Him forever. We will not replace Him, nor will we ever BE Him. But the Bible says that we will be exactly LIKE Him. Now, please understand that this is GRACE. This is because HE is good and loving and selfless. This has absolutely nothing to do with us trying and being something that we have not been given.

People cannot understand this , because they have God in a box. Most cannot even figure out how Jesus can be the Son and the Father is the father and they can be ONE. They do not read their Bibles, they listen to second hand information. If I then say to them, Jesus prayed :Father let them be one as We are one ! LOL then they are in super-confusion.

Jesus was the Son of Man in His flesh part. That came from Mary ! That was not His "God-part" His "God-part" was His spiritual Man.....Christ. That lived in a temporary vessel , a body, that carried Christ around A temporary tabernacle that could and did die.It was mortal.God through His Spirit resurrected Him in a glorified body. On the other hand, His spiritual man, The Word/Christ , is and was immortal. That part was God.

Now that same Word came to us. And that same Word is called the "sperma" of God in Greek. It falls into your spirit and if it finds entrance that SEED , (ifit finds the GOOD SOIL) will start growing and produce after its own Kind (God) Every seed produces after its own kind That means Christ now dwells in your tabernacle , your "son of man" part. Now you have what Jesus had. A son of man, with a Son of God living in him or her. That is the true meaning of "being born from above" Christ the Word, comes from heaven down into your spirit and rebirths you. It changes your spirit man into the image of God.Remember: We were originally made in His image? Without sin? With power to rule this planet? Well now we can have it again.

That is why we have to follow Jesus to the cross. We cannot occupy this vessel, this tabernacle at the same time with Him. He wants us dead and crucified, so that Christ (God) can live in this vessel and rule through it. God wants your body. He wants to rule THROUGH you, as God.

This is why its called the GOOD news. Jesus accomplished this all at the cross already and now we have to enter it by faith.

Be ye changed by the renewing of your mind.

I will add more later.
blessings
C