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The False Doctrine of Preterism and Futurism

reddogs

Member
Until the 19th century, Protestants Bible Scholars studying the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation used the historicist method to interpret the prophecies in these books. Two competenting methods then seem to come out of nowhere to refute the traditional view of Protestants and there origins were troubling. The papacy suffered a major setback through the Reformation as it lost much influence in the religious world as the prophecies has shown that it was the antichrist entity that would come. The Papacy sought the help of the monastic orders, such as the Dominicans and Franciscans, but they were so corrupted that they too had lost the respect of the people.

At this crisis Loyola along with others he led, offered his services, to go wherever the pope should designate, as preachers, missionaries, teachers, counselors, and reformers. So a new order was authorized, and they had and ambitious goal which was to become the universal and principal order of the Roman church. Though they took the name Society of Jesus (Jesuits), they were far from true followers of Christ.

One of the main pillars of the historicist method is the year-day principle which says that a day in apocalyptic time prophecies represents a year, and the Jesuits tried to refute it and the same time they brought the ideas of futurism and preterism to replace it.

Here is from Wikipedia and it is straightforward:

'One of the most influential aspects of the early Protestant historicist paradigm was the assertion that scriptural identifiers of the Antichrist where matched only by the institution of the Papacy. Particular significance and concern were the Papal claims of authority over both the Church, through Apostolic succession, and the State, through the Divine right of Kings. When the Papacy aspires to exercise authority beyond its religious realm into civil affairs, on account of the Papal claim to be the Vicar of Christ, then the institution was fulfilling the more perilous biblical indicators of the Antichrist. Martin Luther wrote this view, which was not novel, into the Smalcald Articles of 1537. It was then widely popularized in the 16th century, via sermons, drama, books, and broadside publication. The alternate methods of prophetic interpretation, Futurism and Preterism were derived from Jesuit writings, whose counter reformation efforts were aimed at opposing this interpretation that the Antichrist was the Papacy or the power of the Roman Catholic Church

Protestant Reformers, including John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Thomas Cranmer, John Thomas, John Knox, Roger Williams, Cotton Mather, Jonathan Edwards, and John Wesley, as well as most Protestants of the 16th–18th centuries, felt that the Early Church had been led into the Great Apostasy by the Papacy and identified the Pope with the Antichrist. The Centuriators of Magdeburg, a group of Lutheran scholars in Magdeburg headed by Matthias Flacius, wrote the 12-volume Magdeburg Centuries to discredit the Catholic Church and lead other Christians to recognize the Pope as the Antichrist. So, rather than expecting a single Antichrist to rule the earth during a future Tribulation period, Martin Luther, John Calvin, and other Protestant Reformers saw the Antichrist as a present feature in the world of their time, fulfilled in the Papacy. '

Now in order to counter this view that the papacy was the Antichrist power it the church turned to the Jesuits who were summoned to counter the reformers' teachings, and here two Jesuit scholars stand out in particular. They are Ribera and Alcasar, and they developed the Futurist and Preterist systems of prophetic interpretation.

Spanish Jesuit Francisco Ribera published a commentary on the book of Revelation which proposed that the bulk of the prophecies would be fulfilled in a brief three-and-one-half-year period at the end of the Christian era. In that short space antichrist (a single individual, according to Ribera) would rebuild the Jerusalem Temple, deny Christ, abolish Christianity, be received by the Jews, pretend to be god, and conquer the world. Thus the Protestant contention that the apocalyptic symbols of antichrist denoted an apostate religious system was countered, and the focus of the prophecies was diverted from the present to the far distant future.

Spanish Jesuit, Luis de Alcazar also published a scholarly work on Revelation, to refute the Protestant Reformation on the Antichrist power. Alcazar's thesis, the opposite of Ribera's, was that all the prophecies of Revelation had been fulfilled in the past, that is, by the fifth and sixth centuries A.D., the early centuries of Christianity. He asserted that this prophetic book simply described a two-fold war by the church-its victory over the Jewish synagogue on the one hand (chaps. 1-11) and Roman paganism on the other (chaps. 12-19). Chapters 21, 22 Alcazar applied to the Roman Catholic Church as the New Jerusalem, glorious and triumphant. His writings were developed into a system of interpretation known as preterism.

Over time these specific systems of counter interpretations of the Antichrist spread and began to penetrate Protestant thought. Preterism was the first; it began to enter Protestantism in the late eighteenth century. Preterist interpretations of the prophecies have today become the standard view of liberal Protestantism.

The ideas of futurism, although refuted at first, eventually spread into Protestantism during the nineteenth century. Futurism, is currently followed in some form by most conservative Protestant bodies. Thus both spectrum of the Protestant denominations has picked up this counter reformation view set about to change the views of the papacy as the Antichrist power that was from the Reformers.

The false doctrine as you can see, basically are to put aside the Reformers view of the Antichrist. Preterist interpretation puts all prophecy pertaining to the Antichrist into the past so it is long gone, and the Futurist interpretation puts them into the future so the papacy could claim it was not this power.
 
This is a good explanation of the resulting suppression of truth...
"So great a hold did the conviction that the Papacy was the Antichrist gain upon the minds of men (who held the historicist view), that Rome at last saw she must bestir herself, and try, by putting forth other systems of interpretation, to counteract the identification of the Papacy with the Antichrist.

"Accordingly, toward the close of the century of the Reformation, two of the most learned (Jesuit) doctors set themselves to the task, each endeavoring by different means to accomplish the same end, namely, that of diverting men's minds from perceiving the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Antichrist in the papal system. The Jesuit Alcazar devoted himself to bring into prominence the preterist method of interpretation,...and thus endeavored to show that the prophecies of Antichrist were fulfilled before the popes ever ruled in Rome, and therefore could not apply to the Papacy.

"On the other hand, the Jesuit Ribera tried to set aside the application of these prophecies to the papal power by bringing out the futurist system, which asserts that these prophecies refer properly, not to the career of the Papacy, but to some future supernatural individual, who is yet to appear, and continue in power for three and a half years. Thus, as Alford says, the Jesuit Ribera, about A.D. 1580, may be regarded as the founder of the futurist system of modern times.

"...It is a matter for deep regret that those who advocate the futurist system at the present day, Protestants as they are for the most part, are really playing into the hands of Rome, and helping to screen the Papacy from detection as the Antichrist." Rev. Joseph Tanner, Daniel and the Revelation, pp. 16, 17."

And a another good study... https://www.whitehorsemedia.com/preterism-historicism-futurism-explained/
 
The papal system is overestimated, up until the colonial period, for more than a thousand years its territory was limited to western Europe. The final Antichrist, aka the Beast, however, rules over ALL nations on earth, including the superpowers in the east such as China, Japan, Russia, India. The pope has no control or influence over any of these nations. One explanation for that is identifying America as the False Prophet, considering its military bases and puppet governments all over the world, that is the post-WWII order known as Pax Americana; but ever since 2001, America's power has been waning. In 2011, most of the dictators installed by America in the middle-east were subverted in the the Arab Spring revolution, the humiliating sudden retreat from Afghan in 2021 officially put an end to Pax Americana, while those other superpowers are rising. Therefore, there must be a new global government that succeeds America and truly fulfills the role of the Antichrist.
 
The Historicist understanding follows on from the early Church, who taught that the temple in Revelation referred to the church, that the let and hindrance in 2 Thessalonians 2 were the Emperor and the empire, the man of sin was the Antichrist sitting in the church, the empire would be divided between ten kings and then the Antichrist would come then after his reign would be the end.

You can get a copy of The history of apocalyptic interpretaton from Amazon, which gives records interpretations of writers from the earliest till the mid 19th century. It is not an interpretation in itself but the author does give hiis view.
 
The papal system is overestimated, up until the colonial period, for more than a thousand years its territory was limited to western Europe. The final Antichrist, aka the Beast, however, rules over ALL nations on earth, including the superpowers in the east such as China, Japan, Russia, India. The pope has no control or influence over any of these nations. One explanation for that is identifying America as the False Prophet, considering its military bases and puppet governments all over the world, that is the post-WWII order known as Pax Americana; but ever since 2001, America's power has been waning. In 2011, most of the dictators installed by America in the middle-east were subverted in the the Arab Spring revolution, the humiliating sudden retreat from Afghan in 2021 officially put an end to Pax Americana, while those other superpowers are rising. Therefore, there must be a new global government that succeeds America and truly fulfills the role of the Antichrist.
What do you think the New World Order is, and who is pushing for it.... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jan/02/catholicism.religion
 
And many are calling for it....
"Is there any form of Christianity in today’s world that could be a source of moral inspiration for a culture of freedom and democracy? We must look for a form that is not a nostalgic imitation of the past but one that respects the fact that our world is not, and never will be, religiously or culturally monochromatic, but is instead radically pluralistic."
 
There are several "end times" prophecies that haven't been fulfilled. When they are, we believe that Christ will return. To deny this is to call God a liar.
 
I'd rather believe an islamic antichrist than the pope, considering the fact that Catholic has been waning, while Islam has been rising, both in population and cultural influence. There's this great book about unique insight by Joel Richardson.

Yes, but Islam is but the same, just picking up the pagan system still with the worship of Mary rather than true worship, as it is but a branch of the corruption.
 
Yes, but Islam is but the same, just picking up the pagan system still with the worship of Mary rather than true worship, as it is but a branch of the corruption.
It's a counterfeit Judaism. To put it this way, it's Ishmael's religion. Many of its traditions and customs are very similar to the Jewish ones, and that makes it deceptive and dangerous. It's got its own final prophet Muhammed and its own final Messiah Mahdi, that's pretty close to the false prophet and the Antichrist. As far as I know, when it comes down to eschatology, the orthodoxy teaching in Catholics is ammillennialism, which basically means that Christ "spiritually" returned in 70AD, we're already living in the kingdom, there's no physical second coming. That is an illusion.
 
In fairness, Judaism of today is a counterfeit Judaism (that is, after all, how counterfeit works. You don't call a counterfeit dollar a peso. You call it a dollar). Judaism rejected their Messiah and want another; that is no different from having a Mahdi. No one comes to the Father except through Christ. Whether Jewish or Muslim, without a Savior they are still lost and go to the same place.
 
It's a counterfeit Judaism. To put it this way, it's Ishmael's religion. Many of its traditions and customs are very similar to the Jewish ones, and that makes it deceptive and dangerous. It's got its own final prophet Muhammed and its own final Messiah Mahdi, that's pretty close to the false prophet and the Antichrist. As far as I know, when it comes down to eschatology, the orthodoxy teaching in Catholics is ammillennialism, which basically means that Christ "spiritually" returned in 70AD, we're already living in the kingdom, there's no physical second coming. That is an illusion.
If amillennialism is true, then unfulfilled prophecies about Christ's return are all lies. Since there is nothing in scripture that tells us why all of the prophecies that were fulfilled in Christ's first coming are literal but the rest can be ignored, I have to conclude that amillennialism and postmillennialism are forms of apostasy. Christ promised to return, and there is no indication that He meant it in some sort of figurative, spiritualized way.
 
If amillennialism is true, then unfulfilled prophecies about Christ's return are all lies. Since there is nothing in scripture that tells us why all of the prophecies that were fulfilled in Christ's first coming are literal but the rest can be ignored, I have to conclude that amillennialism and postmillennialism are forms of apostasy. Christ promised to return, and there is no indication that He meant it in some sort of figurative, spiritualized way.
Literal fulfillments happen byut the symbols explain them. Partial preterism is the biblical position.
 
There are several "end times" prophecies that haven't been fulfilled. When they are, we believe that Christ will return. To deny this is to call God a liar.
Which prophecies are you speaking of? also what time period is this talking about;
what is the literal meaning as you see it?
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 
Literal fulfillments happen byut the symbols explain them. Partial preterism is the biblical position.
One word: typology. There are antichrists, and there's THE Antichrist. In the OT, every hero was a prototype of Jesus, every one of them has some characteristics and a life journey that resembles Jesus's, especially Joseph, Moses and David. Satan works in the same way. Every infamous tyrant in history is a prototype of the final Antichrist, some of them were empowered to operate like Antichrist in a regional scale for a certain time period. It started with Cain, then Nimrod, you know, the mighty hunter, the first totalitarian regime of Babel, then the Egyptian Pharoah. Pope is just one of them.
 
There is no historical event that lines up with the prophecies. Those prophecies culminate with the return of Christ. I don't believe He returned in 70 AD since we are told that the whole world would see. Almost no one claims to have seen his first-century return. You would also have to explain why a prophesied 1,000-year reign actually means that there would be no 1,000-year reign. There is nothing in scripture that would make me believe that the millennial prophecy means the opposite of the plain meaning of the text.

Other prophecies related to the period before Christ returns have only been recently been fulfilled. For example, Daniel 12:4:

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.


Prophecies relating to Israel have only been fulfilled in the last century.
 
There is no historical event that lines up with the prophecies. Those prophecies culminate with the return of Christ. I don't believe He returned in 70 AD since we are told that the whole world would see. Almost no one claims to have seen his first-century return.
He did not literally and physically return to earth. It was a return in judgment,
Scripture says it was a sign of the Son of man "in heaven". He was raised and reigning from heaven.

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Coming in the clouds of heaven is an OT. figure of God coming in judgment.
In the Old Testament, the coming of God with clouds is often used as a metaphor for His presence and power. One such instance is in the book of Isaiah where it says, “See, the Lord rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt within them” 1. Another example is in the book of Psalms where it says, “The Lord reigns, let the earth be glad; let the distant shores rejoice. Clouds and thick darkness surround him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne” 2.
However, it is important to note that these references are not necessarily about God coming to earth in a physical sense. Rather, they are symbolic of His power and sovereignty over all things.

  1. Isaiah 19:1
    The burden of Egypt. Behold, the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
  2. Jeremiah 4:13
    Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.
He did not physically accompany these judgments.



Mt26:Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
You would also have to explain why a prophesied 1,000-year reign actually means that there would be no 1,000-year reign. There is nothing in scripture that would make me believe that the millennial prophecy means the opposite of the plain meaning of the text.
The term 1000 yrs is used 6x in Rev.20. It does not say that 1000 year reign happens on earth anywhere in the text.
Other prophecies related to the period before Christ returns have only been recently been fulfilled. For example, Daniel 12:4:

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Prophecies relating to Israel have only been fulfilled in the last century.
This is your subjective opinion. This text is not quoted anywhere, so it was true after the Nt. was complete.
I asked you a question about Mt.24:29, I did not see your response.I will post it again;
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: ,

If stars literally fell to earth, could men still physically live on earth after that?
 
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