The False Doctrine of Preterism and Futurism

[7thMoon]

You go read the letters carefully and do your own research, there were fake letters in Paul's name circulating in that church.

As if any a fake letter such survived. I noticed you cannot prove Preterism originated as a Thessalonian heresy, because it is obviously invented by the Catholic Church and then became a Protestant teaching.

 

[Delete_me]

Wrong theology leads to wrong belief, and then wrong attitude and wrong actions.You can pretend that God's utopia kingdom is already here while we're actually living in a dystopia. If one trusts God, he won't deceive himself and others with this kind of attitude.

It's all about your vantage point. If you're in Hell looking up, earth is a utopia. If you're in Heaven looking down, earth is a dystopia.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

As if any a fake letter such survived. I noticed you cannot prove Preterism originated as a Thessalonian heresy, because it is obviously invented by the Catholic Church and then became a Protestant teaching.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. - 2 Thess. 2:1-4

 

[7thMoon]

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. - 2 Thess. 2:1-4

The falling away occurred with Rome. Herod is the man of sin.

Acts 12:22 ὁ δὲ δῆμος ἐπεφώνει Θεοῦ φωνὴ καὶ οὐκ ἀνθρώπου Then the populace (city?) is shouting, the God's voice and not the Man's.

Most importantly, we are not the Thessalonians.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The falling away occurred with Rome. Herod is the man of sin.

Acts 12:22 ὁ δὲ δῆμος ἐπεφώνει Θεοῦ φωνὴ καὶ οὐκ ἀνθρώπου Then the populace (city?) is shouting, the God's voice and not the Man's.

Most importantly, we are not the Thessalonians.

OK nice talking with you. This is just wild conspiracy theory.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. - 2 Thess. 2:1-4

The man of sin is the antichrist Satan the father of lying false prophecy, false apostles .He began his false prophecy in the Genesis with Cain a false apostle. The man of sin, Satan working in false prophets, false apostles.

The father of lies a murderer from the beginning (Cain murdered Abel the apostle, prophet sent by God.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The falling away was when the veil was rent. There was no Jewish King of kings sitting in the Holy of Holies . Satan fell and could no longer deceive all the nations that God is a Jewish man. He he fell as described in Revelations 20. At the end of the age he will again be set free to deceive all the nations God is a Jewish man as King of kings

Revelation20: 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit,(fall away) and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive "the nations" no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Again in respect to all the nations in one moment the veil rent it " is finished" Satan the antichrist with his false prophecy is still free to deceive mankind in general ,The nations as a falling away from truth a one time event.

Terrible tribulation for the Jew that was trusting his dying flesh could profit towards salvation A gospel explosion like never before or ever again for both the born again Jew as well as Gentile .

The Jewish men's only club came to a end

 

[7thMoon]

OK nice talking with you. This is just wild conspiracy theory.

And thyself?

 

[JT4444]

As if any a fake letter such survived. I noticed you cannot prove Preterism originated as a Thessalonian heresy, because it is obviously invented by the Catholic Church and then became a Protestant teaching.

And most Catholics and Protestants are wrong on this issue. They have no faith that Christ will actually return, so they've invented a doctrine which spiritualizes the Second Coming, the spreading of the Gospel, and the remaining, unfulfilled prophecies.

 

[Iconoclast]

Moderator note for all posters in the End Times forum .
I think it best to limit to asking the same question of another poster to 2 times .
In a more perfect world we would always get an answer but we can not force one to answer a question .

It was not forcing anything. He might not have seen the post, asking again would direct him to it

 

[Iconoclast]

Christ did not return. If He had, the entire world would have seen. That was prophesied, not the scenario you imagine which reduces the Second Coming to an event noted by no one.

No one said he physically and bodily returned to earth, you are saying that.
He did not literally and physically return to earth. It was a return in judgment,
Scripture says it was a sign of the Son of man "in heaven". He was raised and reigning from heaven.

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Coming in the clouds of heaven is an OT. figure of God coming in judgment.
In the Old Testament, the coming of God with clouds is often used as a metaphor for His presence and power. One such instance is in the book of Isaiah where it says, “See, the Lord rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt within them” 1. Another example is in the book of Psalms where it says, “The Lord reigns, let the earth be glad; let the distant shores rejoice. Clouds and thick darkness surround him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne” 2.
However, it is important to note that these references are not necessarily about God coming to earth in a physical sense. Rather, they are symbolic of His power and sovereignty over all things.

1. Isaiah 19:1
   The burden of Egypt. Behold, the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
2. Jeremiah 4:13
   Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.

He did not physically accompany these judgments.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

And thyself?

There are antichrists, and there’s THE Antichrist. Any tyrant figure, from Cain to Nimrod to Hitler, is a type of THE Antichrist, similar to all the OT heroes being types of Christ. Herod is such a type, he’s not the final Antichrist/Man of Sin.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

No one said he physically and bodily returned to earth, you are saying that.
He did not literally and physically return to earth. It was a return in judgment,
Scripture says it was a sign of the Son of man "in heaven". He was raised and reigning from heaven.

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Coming in the clouds of heaven is an OT. figure of God coming in judgment.
In the Old Testament, the coming of God with clouds is often used as a metaphor for His presence and power. One such instance is in the book of Isaiah where it says, “See, the Lord rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt within them” 1. Another example is in the book of Psalms where it says, “The Lord reigns, let the earth be glad; let the distant shores rejoice. Clouds and thick darkness surround him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne” 2.
However, it is important to note that these references are not necessarily about God coming to earth in a physical sense. Rather, they are symbolic of His power and sovereignty over all things.

1. Isaiah 19:1
   The burden of Egypt. Behold, the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
2. Jeremiah 4:13
   Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.

He did not physically accompany these judgments.

Ironically, 1st century Jews didn't believe the Messiah would phisically and bodily come as a suffering servant either. They spiritualized troublesome passages where the Messiah was depicted as a suffering servant such as Is. 53.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Ironically, 1st century Jews didn't believe the Messiah would phisically and bodily come as a suffering servant either. They spiritualized troublesome passages where the Messiah was depicted as a suffering servant such as Is. 53.

Yes, not all Israel were born again Christians the new name the Father named the bride in Acts , before as Israel.

Christian a more befitting name to name the wife of all nations , Christian a denomyn with no other meaning added "Residents of the city of Christ" prepared for his bride the church named after her husband and founder Christ

 

[eddif]

His millennial kingdom will be right here on earth, with its headquarter in Jerusalem, not in any imaginary realm.

Oh well there goes my thoughts.

Are you sure when the law is placed in our hearts and minds, that is not a New Jerusalem kingdom.. LOL.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[JT4444]

Oh well there goes my thoughts.

Are you sure when the law is placed in our hearts and minds, that is not a New Jerusalem kingdom.. LOL.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

There is nothing in Scripture that would indicate that Christ's return and reign are meant metaphorically. All the prophecies about Christ's first coming were literally fulfilled, but some spiritualize away the remaining ones.

 

[JT4444]

No one said he physically and bodily returned to earth, you are saying that.
He did not literally and physically return to earth. It was a return in judgment,
Scripture says it was a sign of the Son of man "in heaven". He was raised and reigning from heaven.

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Coming in the clouds of heaven is an OT. figure of God coming in judgment.
In the Old Testament, the coming of God with clouds is often used as a metaphor for His presence and power. One such instance is in the book of Isaiah where it says, “See, the Lord rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt within them” 1. Another example is in the book of Psalms where it says, “The Lord reigns, let the earth be glad; let the distant shores rejoice. Clouds and thick darkness surround him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne” 2.
However, it is important to note that these references are not necessarily about God coming to earth in a physical sense. Rather, they are symbolic of His power and sovereignty over all things.

1. Isaiah 19:1
   The burden of Egypt. Behold, the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
2. Jeremiah 4:13
   Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.

He did not physically accompany these judgments.

If Christ didn't return bodily, how is it that Revelation 1:7 was fulfilled? If you are arguing that "every eye will see Him" means what you believe and not that the plain meaning of those words is true, why should anyone accept that you know better?

 

[Mr. G Lee]

His millennial kingdom will be right here on earth, with its headquarter in Jerusalem, not in any imaginary realm.

it would seem you are struggling with the word "faith" and how "it" is used to represent power of God not seen

I would ask when did Jesus the Son of man the prophet apostle say "we no longer are required to walk(understand) by faith the unseen eternal things of our invisible God?

They are not of the temporal dying creation as those that walk by sight .They made Jesus into a circus seal. . . work some miracle then when we see it then we will believe

Again the law of faith the unseen eternal things must be applied. this corrupted dying world will vanish on the last day undersea Sun. . than in the twinkling of the eye the other generation will come into view... the non corruptible eternal

God is not Jewish man as King of kings and Lord of lords, The earthy Jerusalem is simply a shadow of the heavenly city of Christ prepared for His bride the church

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Earthly a shadow of the eternal not seen

 

[Iconoclast]

If Christ didn't return bodily, how is it that Revelation 1:7 was fulfilled? If you are arguing that "every eye will see Him" means what you believe and not that the plain meaning of those words is true, why should anyone accept that you know better?

I answered you two times, see post 50

 

[eddif]

There is nothing in Scripture that would indicate that Christ's return and reign are meant metaphorically. All the prophecies about Christ's first coming were literally fulfilled, but some spiritualize away the remaining ones.

By the way
I believe in:
The presence of Jesus as the Word of God
The presence of Jesus in flesh
The presence of Jesus as a quickening spirit
The presence of Jesus at the last trump for judgement

There are both physical and spiritual manifestations

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

it would seem you are struggling with the word "faith" and how "it" is used to represent power of God not seen

I would ask when did Jesus the Son of man the prophet apostle say "we no longer are required to walk(understand) by faith the unseen eternal things of our invisible God?

They are not of the temporal dying creation as those that walk by sight .They made Jesus into a circus seal. . . work some miracle then when we see it then we will believe

Again the law of faith the unseen eternal things must be applied. this corrupted dying world will vanish on the last day undersea Sun. . than in the twinkling of the eye the other generation will come into view... the non corruptible eternal

God is not Jewish man as King of kings and Lord of lords, The earthy Jerusalem is simply a shadow of the heavenly city of Christ prepared for His bride the church

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Earthly a shadow of the eternal not seen

There's this heresy of "two second comings" in dispensationalism, that Jesus would return as the Bridegroom to snatch the church right before the seven year tribution, and He would return again as the King of kings right after. Their error is that these two titles don't apply to two returns, but two crowds. For us believers, we already walk by faith not by sight, knees already bowed and tongues already confessed that He is our Lord and King; and not only that, He is our bridegroom, we have an intimate relationship with Him, which is a unique privilege to us. When it says, "EVERY knee shall bow to Me and EVERY tongue shall confess to God," (Rom. 14:11, quoting Is. 45:23), that means EVERYONE, especially the unbelieving Jews. Those who previously rebel against God and worship other "kings" and "lords" - molechs and baals - will finally submit to Christ, for He is the King of kings and the Lord of lords.