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The false doctrine of the 'Secret Rapture'.

Hobie

Member
There is no secret rapture in the scriptures, its a terrible hoax and false doctrine that has been made up to confuse people as to the end time events, to turn from clear teaching of the second coming so Satan can put himself here or there after a so called 7 years and use his abilities of signs and wonders to fool people at the end. According to those teaching the secret rapture theory, the coming of Jesus will be in two separate stages. The first will be a secret rapture of the Church at the beginning of a 7 year tribulation period followed by a return of Christ to the Earth. They believe that during this seven year period the Antichrist is going to come into power and God will select and seal 144,000 literal Jews who will take the Gospel to the whole world converting immeasurable souls to Christ.

Problem is the scripture nowhere speaks of these two separate comings and the word “rapture†is also an invention of false theologians and occurs nowhere in the Bible, and is false interpretation of Bible Prophecy.The order of events according to Scripture is very clear; there is Christ’s second coming, the resurrection, the catching up of the saints to meet Jesus in the air which all take place at the same time and at the end of the world. This is why Jesus said in Matthew 28:20 “…and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.†Why would Jesus promise to be with the Church until the end of the world if He intended to come seven years before the end to take them out of the world? The promise would then have no meaning.

This false doctrine on the secret rapture is contradictory to the words of Jesus in Matthew 13 when He said the wheat and tares would grow together until the “end of the world†and then would be separated. According to this dual coming secret rapture theory, both groups would not grow together until the end of the world. The righteous would be separated from the wicked seven years before the end. And what about the promise of the resurrection? Christ said, concerning the righteous, John 6:40 “…and I will raise him up at the last day.†No one denies that this means the last day of the world. Paul declares the saints are caught up to meet the Lord at the “same time†the dead in Christ are raised. He says, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.â€

You have to understand what will happen when Christ comes, and its purpose, the 'secret rapture' has no purpose but confusion to let Satan apear as a false christ and mislead. Jesus Christ said in Matthew 24:40,“Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.â€Some try to twist it and take it out of context to push the secret rapture when Christ gave a complete picture as shown below...

Matthew 24:27 - Jesus said,“For as the lightning comes out of the east, and shines even to the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.†This verse is clearly describing Christ’s visible and ultra-glorious Second Coming. Very few disagree here.

Matthew 24:30, 31 - Jesus continued,“And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels, with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to another.†Once again, the Second Coming of Jesus Christ is clearly described. This coming will be literal, visible, loud and glorious. All the world will see and hear it.

Matthew 24:36 -“But of that day [the day of the Second Coming] and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My father only.†Once again, the context is clearly the Second Coming.

Matthew 24:37-39 -“But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be, For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.†Jesus clearly compares His Second Coming with Noah’s flood. This flood came suddenly upon the lost “and took them all away.†In other words, they were lost - with no second chances. Christ said,“...so shall the coming of the Son of man be.â€

Matthew 24:40 -“THEN [capitols added] shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left.†This verse clearly is describing how some will be taken up and the wicked left at the salvation of the saints at the Second Coming of Jesus at the end of the world?

Another text which is used:
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Luke 17:34-36 (KJV)

Upon these few texts the rapture is built and so strongly believed in that other Scripture are forced with a meaning not found to make it look like this teaching is very biblical. But as we shall see, this rapture theory is founded upon nothing but these texts taken out of context.

The context for these foundational verses is the stories of Noah and Lot. In both stories it is clear that the righteous are saved and the wicked are lost. No one is taken to heaven and other left on earth to face a seven year tribulation period. There is no second chance in the Scriptures in regards to the second coming of Jesus. When Jesus comes He brings His reward with Him to distribute to every man according to their works. It is the final reward. No second chance.

Note the statements on Noah in Luke 17.“until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.†Luke 17:27 (KJV) and of Lot,“But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Luke 17:29 (KJV) The same happens in Noah’s story as given in Matthew 24,“until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matt 24:38-39 (KJV)

Connected with this clear statement that when Jesus comes the righteous are saved and the wicked destroyed are the verses that supposedly support the rapture. Those “rapture†verses support no such event as commonly understood in the Christian Church. They simply state only that there are two classes of folk when Jesus come. One class will be preserved and saved, while the other class will be lost. No second chances. Thus, we are admonished to "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come." Matt 24:42 (KJV)

This teaching has done more to confuse and twist the truth of the last day events than perhaps any other unbiblical teaching. But it is a false doctrine and error and it needs to be shown for what it is, and Christians turn from it and back to what scripture teaches, not man.
 
I totally agree. The false doctrine of a pretrib secret rapture is a perversion of scripture. It is a very dangerous false doctrine created by satan to divide and confuse the body.
 
watchman F said:
I totally agree. The false doctrine of a pretrib secret rapture is a perversion of scripture. It is a very dangerous false doctrine created by satan to divide and confuse the body.


Its too bad that you are both on the wrong side of the fence. :ohwell
 
Mysteryman said:
watchman F said:
I totally agree. The false doctrine of a pretrib secret rapture is a perversion of scripture. It is a very dangerous false doctrine created by satan to divide and confuse the body.


Its too bad that you are both on the wrong side of the fence. :ohwell

Well if it was on the scripture side of the fence, then we would be wrong, but it is on mans ideas side. It is not in the prophecy of the Bible but was generated by men to obscure and confuse as this false teaching spread. It was never taught or spoken of by Christ, was never believed in by the apostles or Paul or the early church, nor the Reformers. It is essentually a lie invented by some to fight the truth, to deflect what the Bible prophecy teaches showing who is the Antichrist. In order to fight and stop the Reformation and the understanding of prophecy, it was invented as a counter-interpretation called Futurism which is not supported by what scripure shows.

Francisco Ribera who was a Jesuit priest and doctor of theology from Spain, came up and published a this false idea on the Revelation as a counter-interpretation to the prevailing view among Protestants which identified the Antichrist. What Ribera did was turn prophecy on its head, and applied all of Revelation but the earliest chapters to the end time to skip what was shown in the prophecy and the Antichrist. Ribera came up with this false idea to deflect what was clear to the Reformers, and say that would be a single evil person at the end times and was not already at work, which is counter to what scripture shows us, and who would be received by the Jews and would rebuild Jerusalem. Ribera was thus placing prophecy in such a way as to obscure the truth many had already began to understand, and deny the Protestant view of the Antichrist —asserted by Augustine, Jerome, Luther and many reformers. It was then continued by Robert Bellarmine an Italian doctor of theology who wrote a book in Latin entitled: Disputationes de controversiis christianae fidei, or Polemic Lectures Concerning the Disputed Points of the Christian Belief Against the Heretics of This Time. In these lectures, he agreed with Ribera. This book follows the basic outline of Francisco de Ribera's book with the reign of Antichrist limited to a few years way off in the future before the end of time. In this Futurism system, or false interpretation of Ribera and Bellarmine, the Antichrist is an evil person who emerges just 7 years before the end of time and causes all kinds of havoc. This way, scripture pointing to the truth of the Antichrist power could be denied for their purposes.

Historicism was the primary prophetic viewpoint of the Protestant Reformers which some sought to counteract. In direct opposition to Historicism, and rising up as a counterattack on Protestantism, was this viewpoint of Futurism, which basically turns scripture on its head so they can claim the Antichrist prophecies have nothing to do with the history of that which brought us the Inquistition and persecution, rather, they apply to only one sinister man who comes at the end.

Thus they tried to sweep under the rug, 1,500 years of prophetic history away by inserting this false theory, which teaches that when Imperial Rome fell, prophecy stopped, only to continue again right around the time of the 'rapture'. It is a lie from start to finish...
 
Mysteryman said:
watchman F said:
I totally agree. The false doctrine of a pretrib secret rapture is a perversion of scripture. It is a very dangerous false doctrine created by satan to divide and confuse the body.


Its too bad that you are both on the wrong side of the fence. :ohwell
Sorry Mm, but the side of god's word in not the wrong side. Any time you side with what the word of God says you can be assured you are on the right side
 
I have heard many false teachers , teach that there is no such word as "rapture" in the bible, so the understanding of a gathering up of the saints is out of the question.

However, the word "rapture" not being in the bible has nothing to do with the fact, that the word "rapture" means "to gather together", or "transporting", or "caught away", or "caught up" < Which is in the bible - I Thess. 4:17.

False teachers do not teach the comfort of the Lord < I Thess. 4:18. To them , their teachings are more from the gloom and doom theory.

Some will be caught away with their false doctrines of men.

This side of the fence deals with truth and comfort. This side of the fence also deals with - "The Hope", which is a promise of God.
 
Vic C. said:
Caroline, Hobie posted about him in his post above. But you can research him too.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp& ... 2fde175c4b


Ok, thanks :thumb

Mysteryman said:
I have heard many false teachers , teach that there is no such word as "rapture" in the bible, so the understanding of a gathering up of the saints is out of the question.

Is one a false teacher just because they don't teach what you personally believe? And if that's the case, then couldn't everyone be considered a false teacher? I think the Bible gives clear guidelines as to what a false teacher "looks" like, and we should be very careful about how we use that label. I say this for both sides of the debate, not just you :twocents
 
Caroline H said:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp& ... 2fde175c4b[/url]


Ok, thanks :thumb

Mysteryman said:
I have heard many false teachers , teach that there is no such word as "rapture" in the bible, so the understanding of a gathering up of the saints is out of the question.

Is one a false teacher just because they don't teach what you personally believe? And if that's the case, then couldn't everyone be considered a false teacher? I think the Bible gives clear guidelines as to what a false teacher "looks" like, and we should be very careful about how we use that label. I say this for both sides of the debate, not just you :twocents
[/quote:39quo3xy]


Hi C.

I don't believe that either of these opposing posters were the originators of this false teaching. They just carry the unlit torch. :sad
 
Caroline H said:
... Is one a false teacher just because they don't teach what you personally believe? And if that's the case, then couldn't everyone be considered a false teacher? I think the Bible gives clear guidelines as to what a false teacher "looks" like, and we should be very careful about how we use that label. I say this for both sides of the debate, not just you :twocents
I agree! Why are we building fences instead of knocking them down? Why do we cling to what we are taught instead of striving and yearning for the truth? Are we that secure in our comfort zones?

When Jesus came, He rattled the cages of these comfort zones. He tells us the truth shall make us free. So, if history teaches us there was a counter reformation movement set in place by Pope Leo X, isn't that cause for concern? :screwloose

It is for me! :salute
 
Vic C. said:
Hobie has taken the same road of study that I took a few years ago. I used to study from historicist.com. Unfortunately, all that is left are their archives:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://historicist.com

http://web.archive.org/web/200501120952 ... icist.com/

What is also unfortunate is that many people just don't want to hear about Francisco Ribera and the counter-reformation movement.

The scriptures connects the prophecy to the history so you can follow the events, it does this so no one can throw in their own private interpretation. It goes down a timeline and unveils what will happened and what preceded so you have a basis to start with and can follow right along, but the 'secret rapture' is just thrown at the end with no real scriptural support and completely out of the timeline. So its easy to tell it doesnt belong, its unbiblical, it was put in to throw off what scripture says about Papal Rome, and it was done by those with a reason to cover up what the prophecy says. So its not hard to figure out their reasons for doing it...
 
Mysteryman said:
I have heard many false teachers , teach that there is no such word as "rapture" in the bible, so the understanding of a gathering up of the saints is out of the question.

However, the word "rapture" not being in the bible has nothing to do with the fact, that the word "rapture" means "to gather together", or "transporting", or "caught away", or "caught up" < Which is in the bible - I Thess. 4:17.
I am glad you brought up 1st Thess 4:17, 1st Thessalonians disproves the secret, pretrrib rapture as good as any passage in the Bible.

1st Thess 4
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Verse 15 tells us this does not occur until he coming of Christ which is after the Tribulation, not before it, and verse 16 tells us that it is going to be no secret, but a loud boisterous event that all will see and hear.

False teachers do not teach the comfort of the Lord < I Thess. 4:18. To them , their teachings are more from the gloom and doom theory.

Some will be caught away with their false doctrines of men.

This side of the fence deals with truth and comfort. This side of the fence also deals with - "The Hope", which is a promise of God.
You do not understand the scriptures at all do you?

The ''Hope'' has nothing to do with a secret, pretrib rapture, but the resurrection of the just. What were we supposed to comfort ourselves with,? the knowledge that the dead will return with Christ and be resurrected into their immortal Heavenly bodies. The fact that we who are alive and have survived the Tribulation also will be caught up is a side note at best.

1st Thess 4
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him
.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


Read it closely

The comfort comes from the fact we know that we will see our loved ones dead or alive at the gathering of the saints. Which will not occur until the coming of Christ, which is after the Tribulation, and is no secret.
 
The greatest way to hide a lie , is with another lie.

The gathering up of the saints before the tribulation of God, is no secret ! Yet, the gathering up of the saints, is being represented as the "secret Rature". Interesting isn't it ? :yes
 
Mysteryman said:
The greatest way to hide a lie , is with another lie.
Yes think about all the lies that had to be created to support the original lie of the pre trib rapture.
Lets list a few
#1 The are more than one 2nd coming.
#2 The first 2nd coming is not the coming all the way to the earth.
#3 Jesus' first 2nd coming is a secret
#4 God has a separate salvation plan for Jews and Gentiles.
#5 The Church will not be here for the Trib
#6 Dispensationalism.

And more..... One lie has turned into a whole list of false doctrines/teachings/lies
 
watchman F said:
Mysteryman said:
The greatest way to hide a lie , is with another lie.
Yes think about all the lies that had to be created to support the original lie of the pre trib rapture.
Lets list a few
#1 The are more than one 2nd coming.
Learn the difference between these two words 1. coming 2. return
#2 The first 2nd coming is not the coming all the way to the earth.
Learn the difference between these two words 1. coming 2. return
#3 Jesus' first 2nd coming is a secret
If something has been revealed, it is no longer a secret !
#4 God has a separate salvation plan for Jews and Gentiles.
There are two resurrections 1. The body of Christ prior to the tribulation of God 2. All of mankind who is not a part of the body of Christ
#5 The Church will not be here for the Trib
This is the truth ! The tribulation of God, is the wrath of God,and the church is not appointed to his wrath.
#6 Dispensationalism.
If "dispensation" is a lie, then God has lied to us, because dispensation is within the Word of God. And it is clear that there are dispensations.

And more..... One lie has turned into a whole list of false doctrines/teachings/lies
True, the lies and false doctrines keep on coming, and they pile one on top of another in order that the truth might be drown out. :sad
 
Mysteryman said:
watchman F said:
Mysteryman said:
The greatest way to hide a lie , is with another lie.
Yes think about all the lies that had to be created to support the original lie of the pre trib rapture.
Lets list a few
#1 The are more than one 2nd coming.
Learn the difference between these two words 1. coming 2. return
#2 The first 2nd coming is not the coming all the way to the earth.
Learn the difference between these two words 1. coming 2. return
#3 Jesus' first 2nd coming is a secret
If something has been revealed, it is no longer a secret !
#4 God has a separate salvation plan for Jews and Gentiles.
There are two resurrections 1. The body of Christ prior to the tribulation of God 2. All of mankind who is not a part of the body of Christ
#5 The Church will not be here for the Trib
This is the truth ! The tribulation of God, is the wrath of God,and the church is not appointed to his wrath.
#6 Dispensationalism.
If "dispensation" is a lie, then God has lied to us, because dispensation is within the Word of God. And it is clear that there are dispensations.

And more..... One lie has turned into a whole list of false doctrines/teachings/lies
True, the lies and false doctrines keep on coming, and they pile one on top of another in order that the truth might be drown out. :sad
So there is a difference between His coming and His return huh?....lol. You have just proved my point.

How about all these verse that show the ''coming of Christ'' at the end of the Tribulation. Are you going to claim these are not His coming but His return even though scripture clearly says coming?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Mark 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
 
Quote Watchman:
"So there is a difference between His coming and His return huh?....lol. You have just proved my point.

How about all these verse that show the ''coming of Christ'' at the end of the Tribulation. Are you going to claim these are not His coming but His return even though scripture clearly says coming?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. ""
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Watchman :

Here is the problem. You are trying to super impose your beliefs upon scripture !

Matt. 24:29 talks about tribulation of those days. If you read the scriptures of the NT, you will read that we have tribulation that we deal with within this dispensation. And when you read the OT, you will see that they also had tribulation that they dealt with. But this is not the tribulation of God ! It is the tribulation of the world that we are dealing with in our day and time.

Trust me when I say, that you don't want to be here on this earth and see the Lord coming. He will put one foot on the land and one foot upon the sea. < This is his - Return

When the Lord comes to gather up the saints, we will be caught up, and meet him in the clouds and in the air. Here , no one will "see" him coming, as he is coming as a thief in the night. < This is his - Coming
 
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