The false doctrine of the 'Secret Rapture'.

[watchman F]

Quote Watchman:
"So there is a difference between His coming and His return huh?....lol. You have just proved my point.

How about all these verse that show the ''coming of Christ'' at the end of the Tribulation. Are you going to claim these are not His coming but His return even though scripture clearly says coming?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. ""
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Watchman :

Here is the problem. You are trying to super impose your beliefs upon scripture !

Matt. 24:29 talks about tribulation of those days. If you read the scriptures of the NT, you will read that we have tribulation that we deal with within this dispensation. And when you read the OT, you will see that they also had tribulation that they dealt with. But this is not the tribulation of God ! It is the tribulation of the world that we are dealing with in our day and time.

Trust me when I say, that you don't want to be here on this earth and see the Lord coming. He will put one foot on the land and one foot upon the sea. < This is his - Return

When the Lord comes to gather up the saints, we will be caught up, and meet him in the clouds and in the air. Here , no one will "see" him coming, as he is coming as a thief in the night. < This is his - Coming

Yet the scripture says His coming is at the end of the Tribulation. You somehow have been brainwashed into believing His coming and His return are different. Explain why the BIBLE says His coming is after the Tribulation. Or can you not? So you will just keep sending pot shots with no substance?

 

[watchman F]

Hi Watchman :

Here is the problem. You are trying to super impose your beliefs upon scripture !

Matt. 24:29 talks about tribulation of those days. If you read the scriptures of the NT, you will read that we have tribulation that we deal with within this dispensation. And when you read the OT, you will see that they also had tribulation that they dealt with. But this is not the tribulation of God ! It is the tribulation of the world that we are dealing with in our day and time.

This is your explanation??? And you have the gall to say I try to super impose my belief into scripture. Lets just look at these verses in context and see what ''Tribulation'' Matthew 24 is referring to.

Matthew 24:21-31
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days be shortened, there shall no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened.
23 then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
There is no doubt that this is referring to The Great Tribulation and not just a tribulation. We also see that it is after this great tribulation that Jesus returns. We also see that there is a gathering together of the elect at this point. Some argue that this is the Jewish elect not the church, but we have already shown the deception behind this teaching. Others argue that they are gathered from Heaven and not from Earth because they were raptured seven years earlier before the tribulation started. So I will now show in Mark 13:24-27, the sister scripture to Matthew 24:29-31 that they not only gathered from Heaven, but from Heaven and Earth.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
So we see that Jesus gathers the elect from Heaven and Earth at the end of the great tribulation from Heaven'' the dead in Christ'' from Earth '' those that are still living''. We also see that this is the Great Tribulation not a tribulation as verse 19 shows
Mark 13:19 For in those day there shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
There is no doubt what is being referred to here, and only those like Mm, would deny it. Even most pretribbers agree that Matthew 24 is referring to the great Tribulation of the last days. Any other view would be ''super imposing'' your view into scripture to say the least.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote Watchman:
"So there is a difference between His coming and His return huh?....lol. You have just proved my point.

How about all these verse that show the ''coming of Christ'' at the end of the Tribulation. Are you going to claim these are not His coming but His return even though scripture clearly says coming?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. ""
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Watchman :

Here is the problem. You are trying to super impose your beliefs upon scripture !

Matt. 24:29 talks about tribulation of those days. If you read the scriptures of the NT, you will read that we have tribulation that we deal with within this dispensation. And when you read the OT, you will see that they also had tribulation that they dealt with. But this is not the tribulation of God ! It is the tribulation of the world that we are dealing with in our day and time.

Trust me when I say, that you don't want to be here on this earth and see the Lord coming. He will put one foot on the land and one foot upon the sea. < This is his - Return

When the Lord comes to gather up the saints, we will be caught up, and meet him in the clouds and in the air. Here , no one will "see" him coming, as he is coming as a thief in the night. < This is his - Coming

Yet the scripture says His coming is at the end of the Tribulation. You somehow have been brainwashed into believing His coming and His return are different. Explain why the BIBLE says His coming is after the Tribulation. Or can you not? So you will just keep sending pot shots with no substance?

Hi W.

What I said and explained is true/truth. It just fell upon stony ground. Your torch also has no light.

His coming to gather up the saints, is different than his return.

Gathering - 1. We meet him in the clouds 2. He does not return to this earth 3. He will not be seen (thief in the night)

Return - 1. They will see him coming 2. He puts one foot on the land and one on the sea 3. Saints are coming back with him

 

[watchman F]

Quote Watchman:
"So there is a difference between His coming and His return huh?....lol. You have just proved my point.

How about all these verse that show the ''coming of Christ'' at the end of the Tribulation. Are you going to claim these are not His coming but His return even though scripture clearly says coming?

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. ""
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Watchman :

Here is the problem. You are trying to super impose your beliefs upon scripture !

Matt. 24:29 talks about tribulation of those days. If you read the scriptures of the NT, you will read that we have tribulation that we deal with within this dispensation. And when you read the OT, you will see that they also had tribulation that they dealt with. But this is not the tribulation of God ! It is the tribulation of the world that we are dealing with in our day and time.

Trust me when I say, that you don't want to be here on this earth and see the Lord coming. He will put one foot on the land and one foot upon the sea. < This is his - Return

When the Lord comes to gather up the saints, we will be caught up, and meet him in the clouds and in the air. Here , no one will "see" him coming, as he is coming as a thief in the night. < This is his - Coming

Yet the scripture says His coming is at the end of the Tribulation. You somehow have been brainwashed into believing His coming and His return are different. Explain why the BIBLE says His coming is after the Tribulation. Or can you not? So you will just keep sending pot shots with no substance?

Hi W.

What I said and explained is true/truth. It just fell upon stony ground. Your torch also has no light.

His coming to gather up the saints, is different than his return.

Gathering - 1. We meet him in the clouds 2. He does not return to this earth 3. He will not be seen (thief in the night)

Return - 1. They will see him coming 2. He puts one foot on the land and one on the sea 3. Saints are coming back with him

The more you post the more you show how little you respect or believe the word.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi Watchman :

Here is the problem. You are trying to super impose your beliefs upon scripture !

Matt. 24:29 talks about tribulation of those days. If you read the scriptures of the NT, you will read that we have tribulation that we deal with within this dispensation. And when you read the OT, you will see that they also had tribulation that they dealt with. But this is not the tribulation of God ! It is the tribulation of the world that we are dealing with in our day and time.

This is your explanation??? And you have the gall to say I try to super impose my belief into scripture. Lets just look at these verses in context and see what ''Tribulation'' Matthew 24 is referring to.

Matthew 24:21-31
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days be shortened, there shall no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened.
23 then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
There is no doubt that this is referring to The Great Tribulation and not just a tribulation. We also see that it is after this great tribulation that Jesus returns. We also see that there is a gathering together of the elect at this point. Some argue that this is the Jewish elect not the church, but we have already shown the deception behind this teaching. Others argue that they are gathered from Heaven and not from Earth because they were raptured seven years earlier before the tribulation started. So I will now show in Mark 13:24-27, the sister scripture to Matthew 24:29-31 that they not only gathered from Heaven, but from Heaven and Earth.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
So we see that Jesus gathers the elect from Heaven and Earth at the end of the great tribulation from Heaven'' the dead in Christ'' from Earth '' those that are still living''. We also see that this is the Great Tribulation not a tribulation as verse 19 shows
Mark 13:19 For in those day there shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
There is no doubt what is being referred to here, and only those like Mm, would deny it. Even most pretribbers agree that Matthew 24 is referring to the great Tribulation of the last days. Any other view would be ''super imposing'' your view into scripture to say the least.

Hi W.

Here again is another example of you trying to super impose your view upon the scriptures.

The great tribulation, is the wrath of God, and the saints are delivered from the wrath to come - I Thess. 1:10

 

[watchman F]

Hi Watchman :

Here is the problem. You are trying to super impose your beliefs upon scripture !

Matt. 24:29 talks about tribulation of those days. If you read the scriptures of the NT, you will read that we have tribulation that we deal with within this dispensation. And when you read the OT, you will see that they also had tribulation that they dealt with. But this is not the tribulation of God ! It is the tribulation of the world that we are dealing with in our day and time.

This is your explanation??? And you have the gall to say I try to super impose my belief into scripture. Lets just look at these verses in context and see what ''Tribulation'' Matthew 24 is referring to.

Matthew 24:21-31
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days be shortened, there shall no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened.
23 then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
There is no doubt that this is referring to The Great Tribulation and not just a tribulation. We also see that it is after this great tribulation that Jesus returns. We also see that there is a gathering together of the elect at this point. Some argue that this is the Jewish elect not the church, but we have already shown the deception behind this teaching. Others argue that they are gathered from Heaven and not from Earth because they were raptured seven years earlier before the tribulation started. So I will now show in Mark 13:24-27, the sister scripture to Matthew 24:29-31 that they not only gathered from Heaven, but from Heaven and Earth.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
So we see that Jesus gathers the elect from Heaven and Earth at the end of the great tribulation from Heaven'' the dead in Christ'' from Earth '' those that are still living''. We also see that this is the Great Tribulation not a tribulation as verse 19 shows
Mark 13:19 For in those day there shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
There is no doubt what is being referred to here, and only those like Mm, would deny it. Even most pretribbers agree that Matthew 24 is referring to the great Tribulation of the last days. Any other view would be ''super imposing'' your view into scripture to say the least.

Hi W.

Here again is another example of you trying to super impose your view upon the scriptures.

The great tribulation, is the wrath of God, and the saints are delivered from the wrath to come - I Thess. 1:10

Maybe you cant read or maybe you just refuse to believe Jesus, but Jesus says..
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
There will never be any tribulation worse than the one He returns after.

As far as 1st Thess 1:10 goes.
1st Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which has delivered us from the wrath to come.
To get a pretrib view out of this verse you would first have to make two assumptions, neither of which are scriptural. #1 That the wrath to come is the tribulation, and # 2 that the deliverance from this wrath is the rapture. As for the first assumption, you can believe the wrath to come to be many things. You can believe it to be a seven year tribulation, you can believe it to be the three and a half years of great tribulation, you can believe it to be the judgment of God when He separates the sheep from the goats, you can believe that it is Hell, or the lake of fire. As for me, I believe it is the judgment of God, when Jesus destroys the wicked with fire, which occurs at the post trib second coming, and later in this book I will prove as much biblically. What you can not do is, arbitrarily proclaim that the wrath equals the seven year tribulation period. The second assumption, needed to be made is that the deliverance from the wrath is the rapture, which is completely false. The scripture says that He ''has delivered us'' from the wrath to come past tense, the rapture is still in the future. Therefore the only way scripture could possibly refer to the rapture is if it read, who ''will deliver us'' from the wrath to come future tense. Conclusion, both assumption are unbiblical. The wrath is the judgment of God upon the wicked and the deliverance is the death of Jesus on the cross. We are not delivered from the tribulation by the rapture, but from judgment by the cross. That is the true meaning of this verse.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote Watchman : "Maybe you cant read or maybe you just refuse to believe Jesus, but Jesus says..
Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
There will never be any tribulation worse than the one He returns after."

----------------------------------------------

Hi Watchman

Matthew 24:22 - "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved : but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened"


The days shall continue, but the days of the elect shall be shortened for the elects sake.

I Thess 5:1 - 9

3 ) - "For when they shall say, Peace and safety ; then sudden destruction cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape"

4 ) - "But ye, brethren are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief"

5 ) - "Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day : we are not of the night, nor of darkness"

6 ) - "Therefore let us not sleep, as do others ; but let us watch and be sober"

7 ) - "For they that sleep sleep in the night ; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night"

8 ) - "But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith, and love ; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation"

9 ) - "For God hath not appointed us to (his) wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ"

 

[watchman F]

1st Thessalonians 5:9 For God has not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.
Once again to get the pretrib rapture from this verse you must assume that the wrath is the tribulation, and our salvation is the rapture. Our Salvation is Jesus Christ, not the rapture, and we are saved from Hell, not the tribulation. This verse has been grossly misrepresented by the pretrib supporters.
Let me ask this, if our salvation is from the tribulation, what about the tribulational saints? If they are saved by the same blood of Christ as we are, then why are they not ''raptured'' the moment of their salvations, why are they appointed to wrath? If we are not appointed to wrath then no believer of any age is appointed to wrath. It is obvious that this verse has nothing to do with the rapture, tribulation ect...

 

[n2thelight]

mysteryman
Matthew 24:22 - "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved : but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened"


The days shall continue, but the days of the elect shall be shortened for the elects sake.

The days shall be shortened for all, because of the elect,meaning if they were not,even they would be deceived....

Matthew 24:22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

"Those days" are the days of this tribulation. If God did not shorten the time and reign of the Antichrist, no man in the flesh body would be spiritually saved, and not deceived by Satan the Antichrist. Daniel told us in Daniel 9:27 that this time of the Antichrist, the desolator, was one half of one week of years. That is one half of seven years, and it has been shortened to five [5] months.

Revelation 9:5; "And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man." God lets us know not only that it will be five months, but that it will be specific five months. It will be the five months of the locust. May through September.

When someone tells you that you will fly out of here, and not be on the earth where this happens, they just show you their stupidity, and lack of the knowledge of God's Word. See them for what they are, they are preparing you for the onslaught of the locust army of fallen angels, and Kenite teaching. Do you take their word over the Word of Almighty God.

Ephesians 6 tells us the purpose that God's elect will be on earth, and it will be to fight against Satan, and those wicked spiritual powers. That is why you need the spiritual armor on and in place, for the warfare will be a spiritual battle, fought will words and ideas, it will be fought with the very word of God, for Satan will twist that Word, to make it a lie, when he and his forces use it against you.

I Thess 5:1 - 9

3 ) - "For when they shall say, Peace and safety ; then sudden destruction cometh upon them as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape"

4 ) - "But ye, brethren are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief"

5 ) - "Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day : we are not of the night, nor of darkness"

6 ) - "Therefore let us not sleep, as do others ; but let us watch and be sober"

7 ) - "For they that sleep sleep in the night ; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night"

8 ) - "But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith, and love ; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation"

9 ) - "For God hath not appointed us to (his) wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ"

Again you are missing the point of the verses....

I Thessalonians 5:1 "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you."

This chapter picks up and continues from where the fourth chapter left off. So we are not ignorant where the dead are; we know that if Christ arose, then the dead also have arose; and the last point is the fact that death can not hold God's people.

The simple verse of John 3:16 states that "Whosoever believeth on Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life." To "perish" is to die, and if you believe God's Word, why would you ever believe that when a person dies, and his body is placed in the ground, that his soul would stay there; even for one moment.

"Everlasting life" is eternal life; and that is an continuous life from the point of receiving Christ. Don't let the traditions of men take away from the Word of God.

In I Thessalonians 5:1, Paul is saying, "I just told you the events that would transpire before the Lord Jesus Christ returns". We know the season it will be; and an event that will take place. First, the two witnesses will be slain in Jerusalem, and put on display in a wide street [arena] there. Then for three and a half days the world will celebrate the death [murder] of the two by Antichrist, and Paul gives us more information as to the times just prior to Christ's return.

I Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

We should know this "perfectly well", because it is written in God's Word, and Paul has told us in many of his writings that when Christ returns it will be at the last [seventh] trump. This day of Christ's return is called "the day of the Lord". On this day Jesus Christ will come to earth, make all things right; establish His kingdom, and reign over that earthly kingdom for one thousand years [millennium] period.

There is no confusion in God's word about this, friend, for it is written in the Bible. It will come to pass exactly as it is written. If your in the "rapture doctrine" it will be a surprise to you.

I Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

"For when they"; they , are the people of the world, those people of the night [from verse 5:2]. There is not going to be any fly away" at that time. The "destruction" that comes over the people of the earth is the fact that "truth" of God's Word will become extinct. There will be none: for if you believe in the "any moment doctrine", then you will not be sealed in your mind that the first Christ is the false Christ. It simply will be to late for you [see Revelation 9:1-5].

The ones called " they" are also the media: the TV, radio, and printed press and they are shouting "Peace and safety". This has been going on for the past thirty years, and with the fall of the Soviet Union, they shout it even louder. The tool for this "Peace and safety" is their Godless one world system [The political beast].

Is there peace and safety? Ask the people in Jerusalem, or in New York, or tune on the news as see all the terror in the Word. We thought so at the rate we have allowed ourselves to dismantle our weapons, and ship the factories overseas. This "New World Order [the U.N.] is the means by which the world is relying on for "peace and safety". Paul said that when we hear this come to pass, as it is happening now, then comes this "Woman in travail"; which is the sudden destruction upon the whole earth.

This "travail" is mentioned in Matthew 24, and Mark 13, as well as other places, and Jesus called it "Labor pains". Why? Because when it happens, the travail will be exactly as the contractions a woman has in labor. You will know ahead of time with plenty of warning, and as each prophetic event comes, those pains or events of the end times get closer and closer until the ones at the end are in rapid order, coming at the same time.

Jesus gave us the six sign to watch for, so that we would not be deceived. Yet most Christians today chose to not believe Jesus. These signs get closer and closer until the child is born. Only instead of the birth of a child; it will be the birth of a new age. That age is called, "Christ's Kingdom", or the millennium age.

When we know God's Word, we know He comes at the seventh trump, and the events, all events must come before then. It's in the Bible, so that we would not be deceived.

I Thessalonians 5:4 "But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

We are children of light rather then darkness, because we listen to God's Word, rather then the traditions of men. When you have God's word in your mind, and know it; when the famine for truth comes, you will be able to see all the signs, and know just how close Christ's return is. It is the Holy Spirit within you that will allow you to see through the darkness of lies and deception, and the Antichrist and his system will not be appealing to you.

I Thessalonians 5:5 "Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness."

All people claiming to be Christians and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, are children of the light. Anytime a prophecy in Revelation or else where is given in days or years, it is written to Christians. When the prophecies pertain to the "prince of darkness", or given in months, which is set by the moons of the night, that prophecy is directed only to Satan and his children.

An example is Revelation 13:4, where it says "he shall have forty two months", it is Satan that shall have the forty two months. However we know from Revelation 9:5,10, that that time has been shortened to five months, for the elect's sake.

The two witnesses are of God, and written in Revelation 11. The time relating to them is given as 1,260 days. This refers to the prophecy of the children of light, God's witness.

I Thessalonians 5:6 "Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober."

Don't let your mind go to sleep, as to your attention to the signs and the Word of God. Rest is important, and you need it to think and work, but see that your mind stays awake to the warnings, and teachings of God's Word. Stay tuned to the "signs and the times", so that you are not caught off guard.

I Thessalonians 5:7 "For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night."

This drunkenness is the stupor of the deception of the Antichrist, and his religious beast. Paul wants you awake and alert to what is going on in the world around you. This verse is written to a person [you and I] living in the generation just prior, and during the Lord's return. That generation is our generation, and the signs and happenings are things we are reading in the news daily. If your a child of the night, you are in a "drunken stupor", and you are open to the deceptions of the Antichrist [Satan], and his system that is well formed today.

I Thessalonians 5:8 "But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation."

This verse is a double witness to Ephesians 6:10-20. Each of these items, are part of the Christians armor to fight the spiritual warfare coming upon us. Many Christians are going to be deceived into looking for a physical battle; when the war of our generation will be a spiritual war. A war of words, ideas, concepts and precepts which are all over God's Word [Bible]. Why would you need God's word, if your going to fly out of here? Armor has only one use, and that is for protection. It is to "stand against the fiery darts of Satan".

Ephesians 6:12; "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers [world rulers] of the [this] darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [heavenly] places."

The "darkness of this world" are Satan's entire world system of demons, deceptions by Satan's offspring the Kenites, and all those doctrines of demons and false teaching. Even the false shepherds who teach and know not the truths of God's Word are part of the "darkness of this world".

I Thessalonians 5:9 "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"

You don't have to hide away to escape God's wrath upon the world. He is your Father, and loves you. God controls all that will come upon the earth, and Revelation 9:1-4 tells us He is the one who even gives the keys of Authority to Satan. Antichrist is the star that will fall to this earth, and he is Satan.

Your salvation from God's wrath will only come through your faith in Jesus Christ. When Satan comes to earth, the first seals of Revelation, and Matthew 24, and Mark 13 will have taken place and be present. These are seals of deception, brought on by Satan's claim to be the true Christ. Those claims will be backed up with wondrous works, and miracles, as well as world peace and prosperity to all the world.

Your only hope of not being deceived is to know exactly what will come about, and when it does come, it will be prophecy of God's word coming true. You will not have to worry about what to say, for when the time comes to give answer, it will be the Holy Spirit speaking through you [see Mark 13:11].

I Thessalonians 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together in Him."

This goes all the way back to verse [4:13]; whether Christians are dead in the flesh body or alive. This is what Paul is talking about here. It makes no difference, for upon Christ's return, those alive and upon this earth will all be changed into their spiritual bodies, and be as those who have passed on before them.

When we are alive in the flesh, we are also alive in, and with Christ. Christ lives in our hearts and minds, and your always alive as a Christian.

Bible Study written by Roger Christopherson, http://www.theseason.org

 

[n2thelight]

II Thessalonians 2:1 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,"

Paul is now getting to the purpose for this second letter. Paul reminded them of his first letter to them, of Christ returning and our gathering back to Him. Because of the misunderstanding that could be drawn from the first letter, he writes the following.

It's important in this final generation that we pay attention for this will happen during our life time. The subject again of this letter is; "our gathering back to Christ".

II Thessalonians 2:2 "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is [the Lord is just] at hand."

Paul doesn't want you to misunderstand what he is about to say. This is why he makes it plain and simple; Paul told them not to confuse what he is saying here with any other teaching, or spirit, or even that first letter from him. This is because there was a confusing part in the first letter where false teachers had crept in and twisted Paul's words. The prime example of this today is the twisting of that first letter by the "rapture theorist", to form the trap that has been set for Christians in this final generation.

Paul is saying, don't let anyone trouble you [confuse you], and tell you that the "day of Christ" is at hand. The "day of Christ [the Lord]" is the day when Jesus Christ will return to earth, and gather His saints to Him. This gathering will happen at the sounding of the seventh trumpet. This is one of those tradition's of men [false doctrines] that can deceive you.

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Jesus Christ is not gathering anyone to Him, nor is He coming here to earth, except there be a falling away first. The word for "falling away", in the Greek is "apostasy". Jesus told us in His revelation to John, in Revelation 9:11, that "Apollyon" is one of Satan's names, and this name is derived from the word apostasy.

The word "perdition" means "one that perishes". Satan and only Satan has already been condemned to die [to perish] by God. Satan's judgment day has come already back in the first earth age, and he will have no part in the Great White Throne judgment, or any other judgment yet to come. He has already been judged, and sentence by God to death "perdition" [Ezekiel 28 covers this judgment].

What did Paul say again?

Jesus Christ is coming back to this earth, but the saints of Christ will not be gathered to Him until the "son of perdition" [Satan] be revealed first.

http://www.theseason.org/2thess/2thess2.htm

 

[veteran]

The "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus taught is NOT His time of wrath upon the wicked. Christ's wrath is what ends the great tribulation upon the saints, not causes it.

And Christ's coming will NOT be secret, because "the thief in the night" idea Paul taught is about how the deceived will be suddenly surprised at His coming.

The deceived won't expect it so it will shock them when it happens. That's why it is compared to a thief breaking in your house at night, taking one by surprise.

Doesn't take much to figure out then, that the deceived will experience Christ's coming too, as written, but they get His cup of wrath instead of His Salvation. They get the "sudden destruction" Paul taught from the OT prophets.


Those on the false Pre-Trib "secret rapture" doctrine will be 'taken too' early, but not by our Lord Jesus, but by a false one who comes first to play our Lord Jesus. If you're being taught to fly away to the first supernatural coming right at the start of the tribulation, that's going to be to the false messiah, not our Lord Jesus. And doing that will be doing a work of iniquity against Christ. That's why our Lord Jesus will say, "Depart from Me, I never knew you" to those five foolish virgins.

 

[Mysteryman]

The "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus taught is NOT His time of wrath upon the wicked. Christ's wrath is what ends the great tribulation upon the saints, not causes it.

And Christ's coming will NOT be secret, because "the thief in the night" idea Paul taught is about how the deceived will be suddenly surprised at His coming.

The deceived won't expect it so it will shock them when it happens. That's why it is compared to a thief breaking in your house at night, taking one by surprise.

Doesn't take much to figure out then, that the deceived will experience Christ's coming too, as written, but they get His cup of wrath instead of His Salvation. They get the "sudden destruction" Paul taught from the OT prophets.


Those on the false Pre-Trib "secret rapture" doctrine will be 'taken too' early, but not by our Lord Jesus, but by a false one who comes first to play our Lord Jesus. If you're being taught to fly away to the first supernatural coming right at the start of the tribulation, that's going to be to the false messiah, not our Lord Jesus. And doing that will be doing a work of iniquity against Christ. That's why our Lord Jesus will say, "Depart from Me, I never knew you" to those five foolish virgins.

Hi V.

No, a thief does not suprise you, he robs you. Which means he takes, when you are not looking, so that something comes up missing. Jesus coming as a thief in the night, means that the saints will come up missing from this earth, and the word "night" here, means the darkness of this world. For we are not of the night, but of the day. So don't sleep, but be sober and vigilant of his coming to gather up the saints.

When Christ returns, nothing is going to come up missing. He will be seen, with the saints , in his return to this earth. This is the last battle. < There is no thief here !

 

[Hobie]

The "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus taught is NOT His time of wrath upon the wicked. Christ's wrath is what ends the great tribulation upon the saints, not causes it.

And Christ's coming will NOT be secret, because "the thief in the night" idea Paul taught is about how the deceived will be suddenly surprised at His coming.

The deceived won't expect it so it will shock them when it happens. That's why it is compared to a thief breaking in your house at night, taking one by surprise.

Doesn't take much to figure out then, that the deceived will experience Christ's coming too, as written, but they get His cup of wrath instead of His Salvation. They get the "sudden destruction" Paul taught from the OT prophets.


Those on the false Pre-Trib "secret rapture" doctrine will be 'taken too' early, but not by our Lord Jesus, but by a false one who comes first to play our Lord Jesus. If you're being taught to fly away to the first supernatural coming right at the start of the tribulation, that's going to be to the false messiah, not our Lord Jesus. And doing that will be doing a work of iniquity against Christ. That's why our Lord Jesus will say, "Depart from Me, I never knew you" to those five foolish virgins.

You are hitting the nail on the head my brother. Most Christians will jump at the first sign of a 'messiah' and instead of looking at what Christ says and scripture shows, they rather follow man made ideas and thus they will be fooled when the 'false christ' comes and pretends with signs and wonders to be worthy to be worshipped and goes to Jesusalem to try and fool millions, but scripture clearly describes Christ coming and Satan will not be able to duplicate it. But if he can fool people with a 'secret rapture' idea, Satan doesnt need it as they are already prepared to be fooled.

The order of events according to Scripture; there is Christ’s second coming, the resurrection, the catching up of the saints to meet Jesus in the air which all take place at the same time and at the end of the world. This false doctrine on the secret rapture is contradictory to the words of Jesus in Matthew 13 when He said the wheat and tares would grow together until the “end of the world†and then would be separated. According to this dual coming secret rapture theory, both groups would not grow together until the end of the world. The righteous would be separated from the wicked seven years before the end. And what about the promise of the resurrection? It is a terrible thing to be fooled by this false doctrine, especially when scripture tells clearly us how Christ will come...

 

[johnny botwright]

Christ returns and we see the first raising of the dead.
Those who have died because they refuse to follow the way of the beast.
Revelation 19:19-20. (KJV)

19.And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20.And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The Satan is bound for a thousand years.
And Christ and those raised in the first raising of the dead reign for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:4-5. (KJV).
4.And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5.But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.


After the thousand years the final battle takes place.

The the final resurrection and the judgement.

Hope this is what you were looking for.
Mankind will go on living on earth right to the final resurrection and the devil himself will lead those nations in the last times.

Love Sassy. xx
a rely that relates to this topic, on another forum, intresting. johnny

the question i would ask is we see a mulitude dressed in white who have come out of the tribulation, in heaven? then there are those slain for their testemony, the 5th seal?

where does this mulitude clothed in white standing before the throne in heaven, come into both sides of this debate?

 

[Hobie]

If people would just study the scriptures they would see how Christ comes at the Second Coming at the end, but they fall into the trap of listening to man, and all kinds of unsupported ideas, or false doctrines such as the rapture or seven year tribulation . . . If they would just study scripture which lays out the events of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. We have to see what scripture tells us about Christs Second Coming, and understand how and what will occur which false christs and charlatans will not be able to do or recreate, which doctrines such as the 'secret rapture' and others open up and are just diversions for true christians. People will be confronts by turmoil and then someone comes and tells them the seven years are over and they are 'the christ' or that the rapture has happened with no evidence needed as it is a twisting of scripture and present themselves as a the 'messiah' at Jerusalem and urge people to come worship him. Scripture shows us what the true events of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will be, if we search and see what scripture says, the Holy Spirit can do its work in guiding to truth. The return of Christ or His second coming to this earth is the event that will finally release the people of God from evil, and scripture outlines it for us. So what does it say of how Christ will return:

And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they were looking steadfastly toward Heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, 'Ye men of Galilee; why stand ye gazing up into Heaven? This same Jesus which is taken up from you into Heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into Heaven'.Acts 1:9-l l.

In the Clouds Together With His Angels:

Jesus was taken up into heaven by a cloud, and He will return in the clouds. The clouds refer to the angels of God that surround Him as can be seen in Hebrew parallelism.

The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels; the Lord is among them, as is Sinai, in the holy place. Psalm 68:17

...who maketh the clouds his chariots; who walketh upon the wings of the wind. Psalm 104:3

Jesus Himself promised that He would return with the clouds (the angels).

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Matthew 24:30

...the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels. 2 Thessalonians 1:7

When the Son of man shall come in His glory and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory.Matthew 25:31

The glory of Christ's coming surpasses anything we can imagine. He will return in the glory of His angels, and that of the Godhead:

...when He shall come in His own glory, and in His Father's and of the holy angels. Luke 9:26

The Second Coming Will be Universally Visible:

Behold He cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see Him... Revelation 1:7

Christ warned against false comings of Christ that would not be universally visible.

Wherefore, if they shall say unto you, Behold he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers, believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.Matthew 24:26,27

...they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of Heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

The Second Coming Will be Audible:

And he shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of Heaven to the other.Matthew 24:31

The Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout and the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God... I Thessalonians 4:16

The Lord Will Not Come Down to the Earth, But Will Await the Redeemed in the Sky:

For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.1 Thessalonians 4:16,17

The Saints will be gathered together by angels and taken up into the air to meet the Lord in the sky. This is not a secret rapture as some believe.

And He will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Matthew 24:31

At the second coming, Christ calls forth the dead and sends forth His angels to gather the elect, and together they meet Him in the air. Christ Himself does not come down to the earth - His feet do not touch the earth. His command to His angels is:

Gather my saints together unto me, those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.Psalm 50:5

So if we study and see what scripture tells us about Christs Second Coming, and understand how and what will occur, Satan will not be able to fool us not matter what he tries, and we will be prepared for Christ.

 

[Mysteryman]

If people would just study the scriptures they would see how Christ comes at the Second Coming at the end, but they fall into the trap of listening to man, and all kinds of unsupported ideas, or false doctrines such as the rapture or seven year tribulation . . . If they would just study scripture which lays out the events of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. We have to see what scripture tells us about Christs Second Coming, and understand how and what will occur which false christs and charlatans will not be able to do or recreate, which doctrines such as the 'secret rapture' and others open up and are just diversions for true christians. People will be confronts by turmoil and then someone comes and tells them the seven years are over and they are 'the christ' or that the rapture has happened with no evidence needed as it is a twisting of scripture and present themselves as a the 'messiah' at Jerusalem and urge people to come worship him. Scripture shows us what the true events of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will be, if we search and see what scripture says, the Holy Spirit can do its work in guiding to truth. The return of Christ or His second coming to this earth is the event that will finally release the people of God from evil, and scripture outlines it for us. So what does it say of how Christ will return:

And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight. And while they were looking steadfastly toward Heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which also said, 'Ye men of Galilee; why stand ye gazing up into Heaven? This same Jesus which is taken up from you into Heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into Heaven'.Acts 1:9-l l.

In the Clouds Together With His Angels:

Jesus was taken up into heaven by a cloud, and He will return in the clouds. The clouds refer to the angels of God that surround Him as can be seen in Hebrew parallelism.

The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of angels; the Lord is among them, as is Sinai, in the holy place. Psalm 68:17

...who maketh the clouds his chariots; who walketh upon the wings of the wind. Psalm 104:3

Jesus Himself promised that He would return with the clouds (the angels).

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Matthew 24:30

...the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels. 2 Thessalonians 1:7

When the Son of man shall come in His glory and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory.Matthew 25:31

The glory of Christ's coming surpasses anything we can imagine. He will return in the glory of His angels, and that of the Godhead:

...when He shall come in His own glory, and in His Father's and of the holy angels. Luke 9:26

The Second Coming Will be Universally Visible:

Behold He cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see Him... Revelation 1:7

Christ warned against false comings of Christ that would not be universally visible.

Wherefore, if they shall say unto you, Behold he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers, believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.Matthew 24:26,27

...they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of Heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

The Second Coming Will be Audible:

And he shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of Heaven to the other.Matthew 24:31

The Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout and the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God... I Thessalonians 4:16

The Lord Will Not Come Down to the Earth, But Will Await the Redeemed in the Sky:

For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.1 Thessalonians 4:16,17

The Saints will be gathered together by angels and taken up into the air to meet the Lord in the sky. This is not a secret rapture as some believe.

And He will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Matthew 24:31

At the second coming, Christ calls forth the dead and sends forth His angels to gather the elect, and together they meet Him in the air. Christ Himself does not come down to the earth - His feet do not touch the earth. His command to His angels is:

Gather my saints together unto me, those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.Psalm 50:5

So if we study and see what scripture tells us about Christs Second Coming, and understand how and what will occur, Satan will not be able to fool us not matter what he tries, and we will be prepared for Christ.

Hi Hobie

Then try and explain this -- Who are these who are under the altar clothed with white robs ( Rev. 6:9 - 11) and looking down at those who are still going through the tribulation ? ? How did they get there ? ? Where did they come from ? ? Who are they ? ?

 

[Hobie]

Matthew 27
The Crucifixion

50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.


At the death of Christ, many were raised to testify and show the power of God, and these who were resurrected, would they be left to die again. No, they were taken as the first fruits with Jesus, resurrected from the grave, just as he was, and we know of Elijah and Enoch, so there are saints in heaven now..

 

[Mysteryman]

Matthew 27
The Crucifixion

50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. 52The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.


At the death of Christ, many were raised to testify and show the power of God, and these who were resurrected, would they be left to die again. No, they were taken as the first fruits with Jesus, resurrected from the grave, just as he was, and we know of Elijah and Enoch, so there are saints in heaven now..

Hi Hobie :

Thanks for your comments, but I think you are fogetting something.

In Rev. 6:9 - "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held"

At best, you would be suggesting that the OT prophets were raised at this time, but there is no record of them going to heaven. On top of that, David should be included, but Peter made it perfectly clear that his grave is still with us - Acts 2:29 - 34 - "For David is not ascended into the heavens"

Now that is not the only thing you overlooked. In I Corinth. 15:20 and verse 23 we read that Jesus is the first fruits from the dead. This alone shows that your attempt here is fruitless and falls on its face.

Bless

 

[johnny botwright]

i was always led to believe the mulitude dressed in white, were those who had been slain in the great tribulation, which was still on going,
no one appears to have been raptured out, only those who have been slain, are before the throne.

the main thing is not falling out, but how best to plan, and prepare, and for what?

The day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.
2 Peter 3:10-13 NIV

Notice the day the Lord comes like a thief is the same day "the heavens are destroyed by fire, and the elements melt in the heat".

 

[johnny botwright]

if we take a boxer coming into a world title fight, he trains and prepares.
he wants to go the distance at least.
not go out in the first round.
or certainly go out fighting.

the church could be in for the biggest fight of its life? spiritualy- praticaly?
take a stand, authority is given to the anti christ to war agaisnt the saints and overcome them.
though many are saying, and many believe, we are not even going in the ring.
what happens when the bell rings. ?
as for searching what is written, i have, and wonder why there is so little activity, planing, preparation, taking place. ?

give Noah his due, being prewarned he prepared an Ark,for his family, must have been quiet a talking point, among the locals who for them life was just business as normal just like today, but then the end came.

The ruling elite, have been very busy, building and completing their under ground bases, maybe they know some thing we do not?

The church is said to be the light of the world, have the wisdom and the knowledge.
And should by example like Noah, imploring the people, the church being joined to a much higher intelligence.
Jesus the ARK of the new covenant.
We should be the watch men, given instruction, warning, knowledge, making things known.
taking the lead,
presenting the world with the right message.what ever that message may be, concerning coming events .
If the church was really forfilling its role, and we as ambassadors.
the message would be loud and clear, and people would be in the know.
Is there some thing we should know? Abrahams question.
many are asking the question,
its what the correct answer is?
that is not clear. as far as planing and preparation is concerned and what the Lord is saying to his people the world at this time.
The Lord did make known to myself, The storm is coming, the sword is out.

the experts of the world, with so much data avalable to them, taking every thing into consideration, tell us we are indeed heading into the perfect storm. named by them an E.T

we may be in the rap ids at presents, its hearing the roar, of the approaching waterfall, that is making people sit up, wake up.

The coming storm, is at the door!

johnny