Bible Study The First Book of Moses Called Genesis

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Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 4:5b . . Cain was much distressed and his face fell.

Cain was a whole lot worse than distressed. He was blazing mad. The word for "distressed" is from charah (khaw-raw') and means: to glow or grow warm; figuratively (usually) to blaze up, of anger, zeal, jealousy. Cain is actually in a passionate rage over this and certainly in no mood for a lecture.

Central to Cain's problem is something very, very common in human nature: sibling rivalry. To be shown up by someone outside the family would have been okay, but to be shown up by his kid brother was intolerable. In my estimation, Cain was not only angry, but was humiliated as well; and he did not get over this turn of events any time soon.

†. Gen 4:6 . . And The Lord said to Cain: Why are you distressed, and why is your face fallen?

God made an honest effort to talk things over with Cain and resolve their differences; but Cain didn't respond; he was too busy sulking in a black pout.

†. Gen 4:7a . . If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?

That principle is foundational to a mutually profitable relationship with the Bible's God, yet the average pew warmer seems to think it's superfluous. Haw! it's far from superfluous.

†. 1John 3:22 . . And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

Cain didn't really have any commandments with which to be concerned. His business was to do those things that were pleasing in God's sight; and if he didn't know what those things were; he could always ask his Abel; but apparently chose not to-- although I think he kind of suspected what the answer might be.

†. Gen 4:7b . . But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it.

This is the very first instance in the Bible of the word "sin". The Hebrew word is chatta'ah (khat-taw-aw') and/or chatta'th (khat-tawth') which are ambiguous words that technically mean an offense; as in repeat offender. In other words; not just an occasional slip-up, but a life style; viz: a habit.

Whatever it was that God found displeasing in Cain's life at the time of the minchah disaster was moved to the back burner at this point because something far worse is looming on Cain's horizon; and it wasn't his kid brother's murder; no, it's something far more fatal to one's spiritual welfare. It's a perpetual unwillingness to talk things over with God and get some things straightened out between the two of you. This is not just serious-- it's extremely serious: and the very thing that prompted God to dispatch Christ into the world to be executed on a cross.

†. John 3:19-21 . .This is the condemnation: that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.

Cain wasn't the pioneer of fallen man's propensity to shut God out. His parents had done the very same thing back in the garden; and just as God came seeking their son, God had gone seeking his parents too; and that divine activity still goes on to this day. It's true after all that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

†. Rom 3:11 . .There is no one who seeks God.

†. Gen 4:8a . . Now Cain talked with Abel his brother;

Cain probably complained to his brother that Yhvh was unfair. But the poor man couldn't have picked a worse sounding board because Abel was a prophet (Luke 11:50-51). In Cain's dispute with the Lord, Abel no doubt took Yhvh's side in it. That was too much. There's no way a man like Cain was going to take a lecture from his own kid brother. Abel's popularity with God was bad enough, but preaching only made it worse and added insult to injury.

No doubt Cain was very jealous of his kid brother's on-going popularity with God. Poor Abel lost his life just because he was a pious man.

†. 1John 3:12-13 . . Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous. Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you.

One of the boys involved in the April 20, 1999 Columbine High School shooting incident shot and killed a girl in the cafeteria just because she believed in God. Isn't that amazing? That boy was nothing in the world but a twentieth century Cain with a gun.

†. Gen 4:8b . . and when they were in the field, Cain set upon his brother Abel and killed him.

Whether or not Cain premeditated his brother's death that day is difficult to tell. The word for "killed" is from harag (haw-rag') and just means: to smite with deadly intent. Harag is not the same Hebrew word for murder which is ratsach (e.g. Ex 20:13). So the attack on his kid brother, whether premeditated or not, was definitely meant to end Abel's life rather than to just rough him up and teach him a lesson.

How Cain planned to explain Abel's death to his parents isn't stated. He couldn't very well blame it on a carnivorous predator since man and beast were on friendly terms prior to the Flood. It's my guess he set up the crime scene to make it look like an accident.

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Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 4:9 . . Yhvh said to Cain: Where is your brother Abel? And he said: I don't know. Am I my brother's keeper?

Cain worshipped the True God, same as his brother, and he participated in the very same rituals, same as his brother; yet responded to his maker's simple question with a lie and a sarcastic retort. Those who are the Serpent's progeny often act like that because the Serpent's progeny have a Serpent's tongue.

†. John 8:44-45 . .You are of your father the Devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

†. Gen 4:10 . .Then He said: What have you done? Hark, your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground!

The Hebrew word for "cries out" is from tsa'aq (tsaw-ak') and means: to shriek; which can be defined as a wild involuntary scream.

Whether or not human blood actually has an audible voice isn't nearly important as to what it might be saying. And in this case, it certainly couldn't be good.

In civil law, it's handy to produce the corpus delicti in a homicide case because it's very useful for proving the reality of a death, and for establishing the cause, and the time of its occurrence. It's interesting that God didn't produce Abel's body for evidence. He could have, but instead relied upon the voice of his body's blood. So a murder victim's blood can be introduced as a witness in the courts of Heaven. That is very interesting.

Abel's blood spoke (or rather; shrieked) and served to accuse a sinner of homicide. In contrast, when the Lord's blood speaks; it will serve to acquit sinners (e.g. Rom 5:6-11, 1Pet 1:18-19). That's a whole lot more to people's advantage.

†. Heb 12:22-24 . . But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than the blood of Abel.

FAQ : Did the Lord take his blood with him to Heaven?

ANSWER : No.

According to John's first epistle, the Lord's blood is still here in use as empirical evidence of his crucifixion.

†. 1John 5:8 . .There are three that bear witness in earth: the Spirit, and the water, and the blood-- and these three agree in one.

The "water" of that verse would be the serous fluid that drained from the Lord's pericardium when he was impaled by a soldier's spear in order to make sure he was indeed deceased.

†. John 19:34 . . One of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

†. Gen 4:11 . .Therefore, you shall be more cursed than the ground which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand.

That is so creepy. It portrays planet earth as a hungry beast ingesting people down into its gaping maw like a massive carnivore. Well, actually it is-- in its own way.

This big ol' terrestrial ball we live on is nothing in the world but a mausoleum, coasting through space like a giant death star serving to warehouse the remains of millions and millions of dead bodies within its vast earthen chambers. If aliens had radio capability to pick up the combined voices of all the blood that was ever shed on the Earth since the beginning of time, they would surely be scared off by all the ghastly shrieking coming out of their radio speakers.

Cain was neither condemned to die, nor doomed to hell for what he did. He was simply more cursed than the ground; but he wasn't cursed beyond hope any more than the ground was cursed beyond hope in Gen 3:17-18. The soil still produces; just not as good as it once did before the curse. And Cain lost a goodly percentage of his talent for making things grow. In fact, God will see to it that his efforts at farming are frustrated no matter how skillfully he goes about it.

†. Gen 4:12 . . If you till the soil, it shall no longer yield its strength to you. You shall become a ceaseless wanderer on earth.

Ceaseless wandering is a natural consequence of the inability to raise an adequate amount of your own food in that day and age. Nobody was eating meat yet, so the soil was pretty much it as far as nourishment went.

Cain went on to become a very hungry, very overworked man. Wherever he tried to farm, the ground would respond in such a way as to act infertile and its production was stunted. The curse was leveled right at his diet and the source of his food. Up till now, Cain had been a successful, independent farmer. But no amount of agricultural wisdom would ever restore his independence, nor his once green thumb no matter how hard he tried to overcome it. Cain had crossed over a line and there was no going back.

Since Cain could no longer sustain himself by farming, it would be difficult to settle down and build himself a home; so he was forced to become migratory and forage for seasonal foods like the uncivilized beast that he was. It was poetic justice. The punishment sure fit his personality. If he was going to act like a brute, then he deserved to live like one.

Though the Bible doesn't say; it would seem to me a reasonable assumption that Cain's curse effected his progeny too. Up ahead we'll see that they became renowned as an industrial society rather than agrarian. As time went by, and the Adams family multiplied and spread out; Cain's community no doubt traded with them using income from the sale of manufactured goods to pay for the foods that they themselves were unable to grow. Dependence upon imported food may not be ideal; but it's certainly better than going hungry.

Buen Camino
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Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 4:13 . . Cain said to the Lord: My punishment is too great to bear!

His punishment was actually very lenient. It's true that Cain would struggle to survive; but at least he was allowed to live. His kid brother was dead. How is that fair?

FAQ : How did Cain get off with only a slap on the wrist? Why wasn't he executed for murder since God himself mandates capital punishment for murderers as per Gen 9:5-6, Ex 21:12-14, Lev 24:17, Lev 24:21, and Num 35:31-34? Does God practice a double standard?

ANSWER : Cain got off with such a light sentence because according to Rom 4:15, Rom 5:13, and Gal 3:17, law doesn't have ex post facto jurisdiction; viz: it isn't retroactive; which was very lucky for Cain because under those circumstances; God couldn't legally prosecute him for the capital crime of murder in the death of his brother Abel because the laws of Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers weren't introduced until better than four centuries after God's covenant with Abraham. Gen 9:5-6 was introduced sooner; but of course God's hands were tied even then because Noah's law stipulates that one's fellow man has to carry out the sentence.

Murder is morally wrong; and it is intrinsically a sin; but God's law for punishing murderers wasn't imposed until after the Flood-- too late to use against Cain. So men could kill each other up until the mandate with a certain measure of immunity because the mandate doesn't have ex post facto jurisdiction; viz: it isn't retroactive. That may sound ridiculous; but nevertheless, it's an extremely important biblical principle.

†. Rom 4:15 . . The commandments worketh wrath: but where there are no commandments, there is no transgression.

†. Rom 5:12-14 . . For until the commandments sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there are no commandments.

That same principle applies to those who are in Christ. His crucifixion moved them into a zone where the Commandments have no jurisdiction (Rom 6:3-11, Rom 7:1-6, Gal 2:16-3:29, Eph 2:11-18). Thus, since they are no longer under the jurisdiction of those Commandments; then they're in no danger of the curses, judgments, and punishments for breaking them; because where there is no law, there are no trespasses to punish.

The Lord's sheep are in a neutral zone; immune to the Commandments, and therefore completely safe from the Almighty's criminal justice system. They are not safe from discipline, that's true, but discipline is a family matter rather than a criminal matter.

†. Gen 4:14a . . Since You have banished me this day from the soil, and I must avoid Your presence and become a restless wanderer on earth--

Cain wasn't actually banished from the soil-- he could still farm if he wanted to; only he wouldn't be very successful at it. And who said he must avoid God's presence? Somebody can be a ceaseless wanderer without losing touch with God; I mean, after all: He's everywhere at once.

Avoidance was Cain's decision, just as it was Judas' decision to abandon Jesus. Both men could've turned it around if they wanted; but didn't. Cain walked out on God of his own volition. Now he would face life very insecure.

†. Gen 4:14b . . anyone who meets me may kill me!

I'm curious as to who Cain feared might slay him. The Adams family were the only people on earth at that time.

†. Gen 4:15a . .The Lord said to him: I promise, if anyone kills Cain, sevenfold vengeance shall be taken on him.

God didn't promise to be Cain's body guard; only to severely punish anyone who slew him. This event highlights one of the problems associated with domestic tranquility. Law works to protect you only when people obey it; so that retribution becomes the only really practical deterrent. However, when people don't fear retribution, as in the case of the Islamic terrorists who crashed airliners into the World Trade Center, then it's every man for himself.

†. Gen 4:15b . . And the Lord put a mark on Cain, lest anyone who met him should kill him.

The nature of Cain's mark is totally unknown. However, the "mark" wasn't so people would hoot at Cain wherever he went. It was a "No Hunting" sign so future generations of the Adams' family would know Cain was a protected species; so to speak.

God allows ignorance as an excuse; to a degree. However, information creates responsibility. When a person knows an act is wrong, and goes ahead and does it anyway, they are in much deeper trouble than one who did not know that a particular act was wrong. No one had been forbidden to kill Abel, nor forbidden to kill any other man for that matter. But soon it would become widespread public knowledge that God strictly forbade killing Cain. Therefore, anyone who ignored God would pay dearly for knowingly, and willfully failing to comply with His wishes. (cf. Num 15:30-31, Mtt 11:20-24, Luke 12:47-48, Heb 10:26-27 )

†. Gen 4:16a . . Cain left the presence of The Lord

Cain's departure from the presence of the Lord wasn't a forced eviction as had been Adam's departure from the garden. Cain's departure was of his own volition; and has the aura of a dreadful finality. He renounced God, and his native religion, and was content to forego its privileges so that he might not be under its control. He forsook not only his kin but also their worship, and cast off all pretenses to the fear of God; and never, on the page of Scripture, came among God-fearing people again, nor ever again gave any thought to any of God's holy ordinances. That verse is a terrible epitaph upon the tombstone of Cain's life, and you can almost feel the concussion of a dreadful thud as the mighty doors of perdition close solidly behind him; sealing his passage into permanent darkness.

Why didn't God plead with Cain to stay in touch? Well, that would be like throwing good money after bad. God had already tried that approach at Gen 4:7.

Of all the things that Cain had done up to this point, walking out on God was his worst mistake. Yes, he would have to scrounge for food; but that was a mere slap on the wrist compared to loss of contact with his maker. People need to think that over. No matter how harsh your circumstances are, and no matter what life has thrown in your face, loss of contact with your maker is much worse. It is wise to stay in touch with God even if your life is a train wreck and God seems oblivious to your circumstances.

†. 1Cor 7:24 . . Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.

When the Adams fell, God drove them out of the garden; but not out of contact. When Cain fell, he wasn't driven out of contact either. He took the initiative to break contact of his own volition. Though doomed to the life of a nomad, he should have made the best of it and tried to maintain some sort of connection with his maker.

†. Ps 103:8-14 . .The Lord is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in steadfast love. He will not contend forever, or nurse His anger for all time . . As a father has compassion for his children, so The Lord has compassion for those who fear Him. For He knows how we are formed; He is mindful that we are dust.

Buen Camino
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Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 4:16b . . and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

The Hebrew word for "Nod" is from nowd (node) and means: wandering, vagrancy or exile. Precisely how Nod got its name, or where it was located is unknown. The only other place in the entire Old Testament where the word nowd is found is at Ps 56:9.

†. Gen 4:17a . . Cain knew his wife,

Cain, of course, married a sister or a niece because there were no other families on the entire planet at that time but the Adams. Some believe that inbreeding has always been abhorrent to God since it's forbidden by stipulations in Moses' covenanted law. However, those laws were not enacted till many, many years after the Flood; and they are not retroactive.

Inbreeding is currently very risky business indeed. But it was neither a risk, nor a taboo in Cain's day like it is now. After all, Adam's wife, Eve, was the female version of himself. In reality then, Adam engendered the entire human race by mating with his own organic tissues. You can't get any closer to home than that.

The human race in Cain's day was very young, very healthy, and very close to its origin. Not enough time had elapsed to damage the human genome. Proof of the excellent quality of the early human genome was longevity. Adam lived till he was 930 and Noah till he was 950. Nobody even comes close to that anymore.

Everybody alive today is the progeny of inbreeding; no exceptions. When the ark finally came to ground, the only people left alive on the whole earth were grandpa and grandma Noah and their three sons and their wives: eight souls; that's all.

†. 2Pet 2:4-5 . . He did not spare the ancient world when he brought the Flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others.

It was from those eight survivors that everyone alive today descends; via inbreeding.

"Now the sons of Noah who went out of the ark were Shem, Ham, and Japheth. These three were the sons of Noah, and from these the whole earth was populated" (Gen 9:18-19)

†. Gen 4:17b . . and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he then founded a city, and named the city after his son Enoch.

The "city" probably wasn't the kind of city we're used to thinking. The word for it is from 'iyr (eer) and simply means a community-- a place guarded by waking or a watch --in the widest sense; even of a mere encampment or post.

Whether Cain actually lived in a permanent settlement is doubtful since he was stuck with vagrancy and wandering. Cain's city was very likely nothing more than a rudimentary village like the towns in the Old West and the Klondike that grew up around rail heads and mining camps. Some of those were little more than a village of tents, and that's probably all that Enochville amounted to. Just a nomadic assembly of Cain's clan where they could pool their resources, and watch each other's back as they wandered from place to place in the land of Nod searching for sustenance.

†. Gen 4:18-19 . .To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad begot Mehujael, and Mehujael begot Methusael, and Methusael begot Lamech. Lamech took to himself two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other was Zillah.

Adah is from 'Adah (aw-daw') and means: ornament. It's not unusual for people to name their little girls after jewelry like Pearl, Ruby, Jade, Sapphire, and Amber. Zillah is from Tsillah (tsil-law') which is derived from tsel (tsale) and means: shade (or shadow), whether literal or figurative. Shade is a good thing in sunny locales so Zillah's name may have been associated with shelter, protection, peace, serenity, and rest-- as in Song 2:3.

Lamech's marriages are the very first incidence of polygamy in the Bible, and I have yet to see a passage where God either approved or disapproved of it other than the restrictions imposed upon New Testament church officers. (e.g. 1Tim 3:2, 1Tim 3:12, and Titus 1:6)

Aside from the obvious sensual benefits men derive from harems; polygamy does have its practical side. The gestation period for human beings is nine months. At that rate, it would take a man many years to build up his clan to a respectable size. But with multiple wives, he could speed things up considerably. In primitive cultures, large families are very influential, and their numbers crucial to survival and self preservation.

†. Ps 127:4-5 . . Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are sons born to a man in his youth. Happy is the man who fills his quiver with them; they shall not be put to shame when they contend with the enemy in the gate.

Cain's line, though distant from creation's God, produced a culture of very high intellect and extraordinary ingenuity. Proof enough that just because people don't associate with the Bible's God doesn't necessarily mean they're brainless; I mean: look where much of the outsourcing like computer tech support goes-- to India; an essentially Hindu/Buddhist country. Russia, an essentially atheistic country, was the first in rocketry to put a man-made object in low earth orbit. Who makes the best cell phones and electronic watches? Japan; which is not what I would call a Christian nation. And who leads the progress in natural sciences? Atheists and Agnostics. Actually, it's to be expected that the majority of true Christian believers reflect a cross section of mediocrity: a people-group of just average achievement.

†. 1Cor 1:26-27 . . Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth.

It's tragic that so many otherwise bright, gifted people are lost to perdition where their intellect, their energy, and their talents will never be appreciated nor put to good use ever again: for example Apple Computer founder Steve Jobs; whose religion of choice was Buddhism: a spiritual philosophy utterly incompatible with the principle's of justice underlying the necessity of the Lord's crucifixion; and also incompatible with his teachings on resurrection and fiery retribution.

Buen Camino
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Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 4:20 . . Adah bore Jabal; he was the ancestor of those who dwell in tents and amidst herds.

This is the Bible's very first mention of man-made dwellings. Jabal was (maybe) the inventor of the first portable shelter; sort of a primitive version of the modern RV. Tents and teepees make it possible to roam long distances in relative comfort while searching for foods and pastures. Abraham and Sarah were housed in portable shelters the whole time they lived in Canaan. With tents and teepees, Enochville could be a very mobile community, staying in one place only long enough to deplete its natural resources before moving on to better diggings to invade, plunder, exploit, pollute, and depredate.

Jabal wasn't the father of animal husbandry as the passage seems to suggest. Abel was already tending flocks before Jabal was born (Gen 4:2). Dwelling "amidst" herds describes the lifestyle of America's early plains Indians; whose livelihood depended a great deal upon wild buffalo. Though they followed the herds, the Indians didn't actually raise any of their own like on a ranch.

Dwelling amidst herds is a nomadic way of life rather than one that's domesticated; hence the need for portable shelters; and the herds (e.g. deer, wild goats, antelope, wildebeests, et al) would provide fabric for not only the tents, but also for shoes and clothing; which would need replacement quite often. One of Lewis' and Clark's complaints, when they were passing through the Oregon territory, was that moccasins rotted off their feet in the Northwest's climate. Even without rot, the soles of moccasins are not all that resistant to wear. Buckskins, manufactured from Elk hide and/or deerskin, fared little better.

†. Gen 4:21 . . And the name of his brother was Jubal; he was the ancestor of all who play the lyre and the pipe.

The word for "ancestor" is from 'ab (awb); a primitive word which means father, in a literal and immediate, or figurative and remote application. In this particular case, 'ab wouldn't mean literal kin, but likely analogous to an inventor who is the first to introduce a new concept which then later becomes widely adopted.

The word for "lyre" is from kinnowr (kin-nore') and means: to twang. So the actual instrument itself is difficult to identify. It could have been a harp. But then again, it may have even been something as simple as a string stretched between a washtub and a broom stick. The interesting thing about an ancient twanging instrument is its string. How did the Cainites make them? Of what material? A stringed instrument is a pretty advanced musical tool and certainly not something you would expect to find among so primitive a people as the antediluvians.

The word for "pipe" is from 'uwgab (oo-gawb') and means: a reed-instrument of music. A modern reed instrument is typically a woodwind that produces sound by the vibration of a thin strip of wood against the mouthpiece; like clarinets and saxophones (hence the classification: woodwinds). But in that culture, it could very well have been something as simple as a tube whistle made from a single hollow section of plant stem; or several of those bundled together like a Pan flute.

†. Gen 4:22a . . As for Zillah, she bore Tubal-cain, who forged all implements of copper and iron.

Tubal-cain was an early smithy of metal knives, hoes, chopping tools, kettles and skillets; which would certainly make life a lot easier out on the frontier. Copper and iron, in their natural condition, are not too strong nor very hard and wear resistant. Their properties are much improved when alloyed with additional elements.

If the smithy adds a tiny percentage of carbon to iron, he gets steel; a much tougher and far more durable metal than its parent. If the smithy adds even more carbon, he gets cast iron, which is a very rigid metal and really good for cooking because it cools slowly.

Adding a little zinc to copper produces brass, which is much stronger and tougher than pure copper. Copper's advantage in cooking is its natural heat conduction, which is very fast as compared to iron and/or steel. It's also an excellent conductor of electricity, but unless they were bottling lightening in those days, copper's electrical properties would have to wait for future exploitation.

†. Gen 4:22b . . And the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.

Naamah is from Na'amah (nah-am-aw') which means pleasant, amiable, or agreeable. A girl named Joy would probably fit that category. Naamah was maybe Enochville's public affairs officer over at the local chamber of commerce. A prosperous community like Enochville could always use a friendly hostess, one who was good with the public. Naamah was the lady to see for information about the metal tools and implements on sale over at Tubal-cain's blacksmith shop, and about the musical instruments available over at Jubal's place. Somebody in that town knew how to make tents too; and with the hunters out there stalking herds; there was always a supply of hides and leather goods at hand; and if there was trading with the Adams over in Eden, then there was no doubt imported produce available too.

So all in all, Enochville, though unproductive at farming, prospered through commerce instead; trading the goods and services of their industrial base for much needed produce; the same way that most urbanites still do even today. People in towns and cities typically don't support themselves directly from nature. They earn a medium of exchange in some sort of skill or profession, then trade it with merchants to buy the things they need to survive.

The technological, and cultural, level of early Man was very high. It's interesting that the identifying marks which evolutionary anthropologists use to denote the emergence of a stone age culture into a civilized society were evident in Adam's day: animal husbandry, agriculture, trades, urbanization, music, and metallurgy. All these civilizational technologies emerged very early: within just a few generations of Adam; not after thousands upon thousands of years of human development. I'm not saying there never was any "stone-age" peoples. Obviously there were. But Adam and Cain were not among them.

It's a pity the Flood wiped early Man off the map. Who can tell what he might have accomplished had his progress not been interrupted. (cf. Gen 11:6)

Buen Camino
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Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 4:23-24 . . And Lamech said to his wives: Adah and Zillah, hear my voice! O wives of Lamech, give ear to my speech! I have slain a man for wounding me, and a lad for bruising me. If Cain is avenged sevenfold, then Lamech seventy-sevenfold.

Brag, Brag, Brag-- boy, I tell you some men sure love to show off and glorify themselves in front of women; no doubt about it. Apparently ol' Lamech figured the homicide he committed wasn't nearly as severe as Cain's because he killed in retribution; whereas Cain killed in a rage. Also, Cain killed his kid brother, whereas Lamech killed a relative a little more distant. So in Lamech's estimation, Cain's killing was a much more serious crime; and if a dirty rotten scoundrel like gramps was under God's divine protections, then, in Lamech's mind, he certainly deserved to be under them even more so; or so that's the way it was in his judicious estimation.

It almost appears that Lamech killed two people, but really it was only one; and in fact a person younger than himself. Two words describe Lamech's opponent. The first word is from 'enowsh (en-oshe') and simply means a mortal; viz: a human being (of either gender), in general (singly or collectively). The second word reveals the person's age. The word for "lad" is yeled (yeh'-led) and means something born, i.e. a lad or offspring-- boy, child, fruit, son, young one and/or young man.

Apparently Lamech got in a disagreement with somebody and they settled their differences in a fight. The injury Lamech received in the ensuing scuffle could have been something as simple as the man biting his ear or kicking him in the groin. It's my guess Lamech over-reacted and stabbed the man to death with a spiffy bowie knife that his son Tubal-cain made for him over in the blacksmith shop.

Lamech's sense of right and wrong reflects the humanistic conscience of a man void of God's mentoring. In his earthly mind, revenge was an okay thing; which is a common attitude in many primitive cultures. But his opponent only wounded him. In return, Lamech took his life. The scales of justice don't balance in a situation like that-- they tip. Pure law says eye for eye, tooth for tooth, burning for burning, stripe for stripe, life for life, and no more. If the lad's intent was obviously upon great bodily harm; Lamech would probably be justified to kill him in self defense since his opponent was a younger man and had the advantage in age. However, according to Lamech's own testimony, he killed the man in revenge; not self defense.

Cain's side of the Adams family is characterized by technology, invention, boasting, achievement, commerce, and violence. But not one word is recorded concerning its association with, nor its interest in, their maker. Cain's entire community was Godless and went on to be completely destroyed right down to the last man, woman, and child in Noah's flood. No one survives him today.

The Bible doesn't record even one single incident of a Cainite blessing God for His goodness; nor for His mercy, nor for His providence. There is no record that any of them ever said even one single prayer-- not even a simple lay-me-down-to-sleep kind of prayer. Every one of the little kids in Enochville went to bed each night without the slightest assurance that the God of creation cared at all for the well being of their little souls.

How many homes right here today in modern America reflect that very same Cainish culture? The parents and the children are unthankful, unholy, and irreligious; caring little or nothing for things of eternal value: moving towards an inevitable head-on rendezvous with death and the hereafter, and totally unprepared to meet their maker.

†. Gen 4:26a . . And to Seth, in turn, a son was born, and he named him Enosh.

Sometimes the record shows the mother naming a child, and sometimes the father; which suggests that in all cases there was very likely mutual consultation between husband and wife on this important decision. But it's always important for the father to take a hand in naming the children because the act testifies that he has legally, and officially, accepted them as his own. (e.g. Gen 15:16, Gen 21:3, Mtt 1:21, Luke 1:13, Luke 1:63, Rev 2:17)

"Enosh" is from 'enowsh (en-oshe') and means: a mortal; hence a man in general, singly or collectively (and thus differing from the more dignified 'adam (aw-dawm') which means: a human being) There's really nothing special about an 'enowsh-- just a feller. Sometimes boys are named Guy, or Buddy, so 'enowsh would be a common enough name.

†. Gen 4:26b . .Then men began to call on the name of The Lord.

That doesn't mean people began communicating with God only just then. It only means they began calling upon God by a personal name instead of an official title. "The Lord" here in Gen 4:26 is from the Hebrew proper noun yhvh. According to a note in the Stone Tanach, the four letters of this name are those of the Hebrew words "He was, He is, and He will be" signifying that Yhvh is timeless and infinite; ergo: self existent; which is exactly what God conveyed when He identified himself to the people of Israel.

†. Ex 3:13-14 . . And Moses said unto God: Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them "The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you" and they shall say to me "What is his name?" what shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses: I Am that I Am. And He said: Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: "I Am hath sent me unto you."

Buen Camino
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[Webers_Home]

Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 5:1a . .This is the record of Adam's line.

The Bible record generally follows the genealogy that leads to Christ; but, on the way, sometimes takes little side trips along lines forking off the main stem. So Genesis first shows where Cain's line went, drops it, and then picks up Seth's; beginning at Adam. Adam's line of course includes every human being who ever lived, but the only fork in his tree that really counts is the one leading to Jesus of Nazareth: the Bible's central figure.

†. Gen 5:1b-2 . .When God created man, He made him in the likeness of God; male and female He created them. And when they were created, He blessed them and called them Man.

As a preamble to Seth's line, Genesis reminds the reader that Man's origin was by intelligent design and special creation, and that he was made in the likeness of his creator, and that he's been a homo sapiens right from the get-go. Man didn't begin his existence as some sort of pre-human hominid named Ardi who lived in Ethiopia's Afar Rift some 4.4 million years ago. The Lord's pedigree in the book of Luke begins with his nearest male blood kin, a man named Heli, and goes all the way back to Seth and Adam. It goes no further because there is no further to go but the dust of the earth.

Some people of course have problems with Genesis because it seems so unscientific and contrary to the (known) fossil record. But they need to be cautious because science doesn't have perfect understanding of everything yet, and it often has to be revised to reflect new discoveries, and to correct outdated theories and opinions. But to be fair, Bible students don't know everything yet either so I would advise watching the sciences for new discoveries that help fill in some blanks about not only man's progress, but also the earth's.

†. Gen 5:3a . .When Adam had lived 130 years, he begot a son

Adam lived to be 930. If we compare that age to that of the average life expectancy of American men today, Adam would have been an eleven year-old kid when Seth was born.

Eve understood Seth to be Abel's replacement. But that doesn't necessarily mean Seth was the very next boy born into the Adams family after Abel. It doesn't even mean Seth was her third child. Bible genealogies often have very large gaps in them, omitting insignificant male siblings; and typically all of the girls. In one instance (1Chrn 1:1) the record skips Abel and jumps right to Seth; and in another (Ruth 4:22) it leaves out all of Jesse's sons but the youngest. Taking advantage of this rather strange Bible practice; critics are quick to point out generational short-cuts in Christ's genealogy with the intent of invalidating the entire New Testament.

†. Gen 5:3b . . in his likeness after his image, and he named him Seth.

Seth' image and likeness is the very same wording as Gen 1:26-27.

Adams' image and likeness of God was obtained via the process of creation; while Seth's image and likeness of Adam was by means of procreation; which Webster's defines as reproduction; viz: biological progeny. Had God actually reproduced to create Adam, then homo sapiens would be just as God as God because like engenders like; viz: more of itself.

†. Gen 5:4-5 . . After the birth of Seth, Adam lived 800 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days that Adam lived came to 930 years; then he died.

Well, there goes grandpa Adam, just as God predicted at Gen 3:19. But hey? Where's the listing of the rest of his kids? Didn't God bless him with the words "be fruitful, increase in number, and fill the earth". Well, I seriously doubt that he and Eve stopped after just three kids. But the rest of his progeny-- for reasons I can only guess --didn't make the cut.

But when did Eve die? Did she outlive Adam? Who died first, Adam or Eve? Nobody really knows. But supposing Eve died quite a while before Adam? Did he remarry? And if he remarried, who did he marry? One of his own grandchildren? Well . . in Adam's case, what's so bad about that? I mean, after all, his first wife was manufactured from the organic tissues of his own body; so that in reality, Eve was his first child which means that by today's social standards; Adam practiced the worst kind of incest. At least his grandkids would have been six or seven times removed.

†. Gen 5:6-7 . .When Seth had lived 105 years, he begot Enosh. After the birth of Enosh, Seth lived 807 years and begot sons and daughters.

No doubt some people envy the longevity of the antediluvians; but I don't. Their life was hard, and for the most part, pretty boring. Would you want to live for 912 years in primitive conditions? Not me.

Was Enosh the first of Seth's children? Maybe, but probably not. However, he is the only child that counts because it's through him that we're moving towards Noah; and ultimately, Christ.

†. Gen 5:8 . . All the days of Seth came to 912 years; then he died.

(sigh) The story of our futile lives. So and So was born. He got married and had children; lived X number of years after that, and then died-- same O, same O. The weary circle of life.

†. Ecc 1:2-4 . . Meaningless! Futile! complains the Teacher. Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless. What does man gain from all his labor at which he toils under the sun? Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever.

The earth is dumber than a brick; yet easily outlives its human potentate; whose IQ is infinitely greater.

†. Gen 5:9 . .When Enosh had lived 90 years, he begot Kenan.

Kenan's name in the Hebrew is Qeynan (kay-nawn') which means fixed or permanent; sort of like birds' nests, homes; and drifters finally ending their nomadic life and putting down some roots. Fixed can also mean that someone's life has a noble purpose and that their mind is focused upon that purpose rather than looking two ways at once.

†. Luke 9:62 . . No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

The Lord's sheep are exhorted to fix their minds upon the realities of their position in Christ.

†. Col 3:1-3 . . Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

Gotta keep your eye on that brass ring.

Soon one life
Will be past.
Only what's done for Christ
Will last.

Buen Camino
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[Webers_Home]

Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 5:10 . . After the birth of Kenan, Enosh lived 815 years and begot sons and daughters.

You know, some of these guys really didn't accomplish very much. All they seemed to do was reproduce. But the important thing is: they made a line to Messiah and, as is the duty of patriarchs, preserved whatever sacred teachings were handed down from their fathers.

†. Gen 5:11 . . All the days of Enosh came to 905 years; then he died.

(yawn) Over and over again. Just about everybody reproduces in chapter five. And just about everybody dies too.

†. Gen 5:12-20 . .When Kenan had lived 70 years, he begot Mahalalel. After the birth of Mahalalel, Kenan lived 840 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days of Kenan came to 910 years; then he died. When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he begot Jared. After the birth of Jared, Mahalalel lived 830 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days of Mahalalel came to 895 years; then he died. When Jared had lived 162 years, he begot Enoch. After the birth of Enoch, Jared lived 800 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days of Jared came to 962 years; then he died.

Four of those men-- Enoch, Jared, Mahalalel, and Kenan (Cainan) --are listed in the Lord's genealogy at Luke 3:37-38.

†. Gen 5:21 . .When Enoch had lived 65 years, he begot Methuselah.

Methuselah's name is Methuwshelach (meth-oo-sheh'-lakh) which is a compound word made up of math (math) which means an adult (as of full length or full size), and shelach (sheh'-lakh) which means a missile of attack, i.e. a spear, sling stone, or perhaps an arrow. Methuselah was a man-size weapon rather than one that might be employed by little children.

Today our preferred missile of attack from a hand held weapon is the bullet. A Methuselah bullet would probably be known today as a magnum. Magnums cost more than normal ammo but hit harder, go further, and cause more damage (they're louder too). A modern name that might correspond to Methuselah is Long Tom-- a nickname often given to very large canons. Maybe they meant to call him Big Guy because he was such a heavy newborn.

†. Gen 5:22-23 . . After the birth of Methuselah, Enoch walked with God 300 years; and he begot sons and daughters. All the days of Enoch came to 365 years.

Enoch was a fiery preacher, speaking the words recorded in Jude 1:14-15; warning people prior to the Flood that Almighty God intends to make the wicked give an account of themselves some day.

†. Gen 5:24a . . Enoch walked with God;

Enoch was the exact opposite of Cain; who walked away from God rather than with God.

This is the very first man on record who is actually said to have walked with God; though no doubt Abel did too. People still walk with God. Here's a useful acronym that covers most of the essential elements of faith regarding walking with God. The acronym is ROTC.

Read your Bible.
Obey His will
Talk with God
Confess your sins.

Those who are outwardly religious, but don't actually walk with God, might be wise to give this next little saying some thought.

Ye call me Lord and respect me not.
Ye call me Master and obey me not.
Ye call me Light and see me not.
Ye call me Way and walk me not.
Ye call me Life and choose me not.
Ye call me Wise and heed me not.
Ye call me Kind and love me not.
Ye call me Just and fear me not.
If I condemn thee, blame me not.

†. Mal 1:6 . . A son honors his father, and a servant his master. If I am a father, where is the honor due me? If I am a master, where is the fear due me?

†. 1John 1:6 . . If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

On the page of Scripture, Enoch isn't said to walk with God until after his little boy Methuselah was born; suggesting perhaps that parenthood can have an amazing influence on some men's attitude towards their maker-- some men.

†. Gen 5:24b . . then he was no more, because God took him away.

Enoch has the distinction of being the shortest lived man in chapter five. But he didn't die a natural death. He crossed over to the next life miraculously.

†. Heb 11:5 . . Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

The koiné Greek word for "translate" is metatithemi (met-at-ith'-ay-mee) which means: to transfer, to transport, to exchange, to change sides, or to pervert. In other words: Enoch went from being physical to metaphysical in the blink of an eye. Precisely what became of his corpse isn't revealed but for sure he didn't take it with him to heaven.

†. 1Cor 15:50 . . I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

†. John 3:13 . . No man has ascended to heaven but he who came down from heaven: the Son of Man who is in heaven.

†. Gen 5:25-27 . .When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he begot Lamech. After the birth of Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days of Methuselah came to 969 years; then he died.

Ol' Methuselah holds the record for longevity. He outlived his son Lamech, dying five years after him in the very year the Flood came; when Methuselah's grandson Noah was 600. Whether or not Methuselah died in the Flood or by natural causes is not said. However, he may indeed have perished in it right along with all of the rest of Noah's relatives. Just because men are listed in Messiah's genealogy doesn't necessarily mean they were righteous. In point of fact, some of the Davidic kings in Jesus' line were totally wicked men beyond remedy. (e.g. Jer 22:24-30)

Buen Camino
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[Webers_Home]

Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 5:28-29 . .When Lamech had lived 182 years, he begot a son. And he named him Noah, saying, "This one will provide us relief from our work and from the toil of our hands, out of the very soil which the Lord placed under a curse."

The word for "Noah" is from nuwach (noo'-akh) and means: rest or quiet. But not the kind of quiet one might find in a sound-proof room. More like the peace and quiet a person would experience by getting away from anxiety, fear, conflict, and toil.

Lamech speaks as one fatigued with the business of living, and as one grudging that so much energy, which otherwise might have been much better employed in leisure, entertainment, or self improvement, was unavoidably spent in toil and labor necessary simply to survive.

Lamech undoubtedly saw that Noah was a very special boy; the next patriarch after himself. Perhaps he hoped Noah was the promised seed of the woman; the one who would crush the Serpent's head, remove the curse, and restore the Earth to its former prosperity and glory; thus making for Man a much more enjoyable experience than the one he is subjected to for now.

†. Rom 8:18-21 . . I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God; for the creation was subjected to futility, not of its own will but by the will of him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself will be set free from its slavery to decay and obtain the glorious liberty of the children of God.

†. Acts 3:19-21 . . Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

According to Acts 3:19-21, men have been pounding pulpits since the very beginning, and all of the prophets, ever since Abel, have looked ahead in anxious anticipation to Messiah's intervention in world affairs and bringing into existence a much better world than the one that is now.

†. Gen 5:30-32 . . After the birth of Noah, Lamech lived 595 years and begot sons and daughters. All the days of Lamech came to 777 years; then he died. When Noah had lived 500 years, Noah begot Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Lamech escaped the Flood by a mere 5 years. It came when Noah was 600. (Gen 7:6)

Shem was the next patriarch after his dad Noah. But the names of all three boys are given probably because of the role they will play in re-populating the Earth after the Flood. The Bible doesn't say that Shem, Ham, and Japheth were especially good men. They survived the Flood in spite of their character only because they got aboard the ark with their dad when it was time for the rain to begin. If they had mocked, and remained on land with the rest of the world, then they would have certainly drowned right along with everyone else in spite of their ancestry.

So; were Mr and Mrs Noah childless until Noah was 500 years old? Probably not. The other kids, if there were any, didn't count as far as God was concerned, and, if there were any, they perished in the deluge. Being related to holy men like rabbis, pastors or deacons doesn't guarantee a ticket to safety. Everyone has to make their own personal decisions in that regard (e.g. Gen 19:12-14). God commands all people everywhere to repent. Refuse, and it's curtains; no matter how important, nor well connected, your relatives might be.

Buen Camino
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[Webers_Home]

Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 6:1-2 . . Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were good; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.

The Hebrew word for "good" in that passage is towb (tobe) which is the very same word that Genesis utilizes to evaluate God's handiwork in creation; e.g. Light (Gen 1:4) Land and Seas (Gen 1:10) Vegetation (Gen 1:12) Sun, Moon, and Stars (Gen 1:18) Birds and Aquatic Life (Gen 1:21) Beasts and Bugs (Gen 1:25) and the finished product. (Gen 1:31)

Towb is one of those ambiguous Hebrew words that can be utilized as either a noun or an adjective in a wide variety of applications. It can indicate morality, it can indicate a tasty meal, it can indicate a job well done, it can indicate a nice man, it can indicate a pretty dress, it can indicate a shapely woman and/or a handsome man, and it can indicate an expert musician and/or a really groovy song like Lady Gaga's "Bad Romance"

In my judicious estimation, when God's handiwork turned out "good" towb indicates that the cosmos-- and all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --came out just the way God wanted it to; perfectly suited to the purposes He had in mind when He designed everything. But when it comes to women; I think it's pretty safe to assume towb indicates their looks.

Note : ambiguous Hebrew words like towb serve to illustrate why it's virtually impossible to translate Hebrew into English with 100% verbatim precision. No linguist in his right mind would dare to say that English versions of the Hebrew Old Testament are perfect word-for-word renditions of the original manuscripts-- no; they can't even be certified perfect word-for-word renditions of the available manuscripts let alone the originals.

The precise identity of the "sons of God" has been debated. Some say they were the sons of the aristocracy of that day who married attractive women from among the commoners. Others say they were renegade spirit creatures who cohabited with humans to produce a hybrid strain of hominid freaks. Others say they were pious men who, instead of marrying pious women of like faith, married outsiders; viz: infidels-- implying that "daughters of men" are irreverent women who didn't fear the Bible's God. (e.g. Gen 26:34-35)

It's quite rational to deduce from the text that otherwise pious men were overcome with sensual lust and built themselves harems of impious women; who subsequently became the mothers of irreverent children. Intermarriage between men of faith and infidel women is as old a practice as adultery; and a proven tactic for watering down, compromising, and even extinguishing Bible beliefs and practices (e.g. Num 31:7-16). The people of God are strictly, unequivocally, and clearly forbidden to marry outside their faith. (Deut 7:1-4, 2Cor 6:14-18)

In a mixed relationship-- one a believer and the other an infidel --the believer will be forced to compromise their convictions in order to keep the relationship going. Compromise in the area of spiritual values is not a good thing for God's people. It's not only bad for the conscience, but will quickly ruin a believer's relationship with their Lord. (1John 1:6)

Most people want love, romance, companionship, and a family of their own. According to Gen 1:27-28, and Gen 2:21-24, those things are Divine blessings, they're perfectly normal and nothing to be ashamed of; nor is there anything intrinsically naughty or sinful about them. But a believer has to be self controlled, and not permit their base nature to make them lose their heads and ruin their chances for happiness. Adult dating is where it starts. And adult dating isn't harmless. It leads to other things, and it leads into commitments and promises that are not easily reneged. The end result of adult dating is ultimately marriage and children (quite possibly illegitimate children). Whose spiritual philosophy will prevail in the marriage? Whose spiritual philosophy will be taught to the children? The believer's or the infidel's? And ultimately, who will get the children's souls-- God, or the Serpent?

Some couples try to accommodate each other's beliefs by teaching their children the concepts of both religions. For example, a marriage between a Buddhist and a Christian. The children are given a choice between the Bible and the Four Noble Truths; and between Christ and Siddhartha Guatama, and between resurrection and reincarnation. That may seem like a good idea, but it only creates confusion in the minds of the children. Why are mom and dad not in agreement? Whose religion is right? Can both be right? Does it mean that one religion is just as good as the next?

Teaching their children more than one system of spiritual beliefs and practices is out of the question for Christians because the Lord and Master of New Testament Christianity demands their exclusive devotion.

†. John 14:6 . . I am the path and the truth . . No one comes to the Father except through me.

†. 1Tim 2:5 . . For there is one God, and one mediator between God and humanity; the man Christ Jesus

Wives can be very effective in influencing an otherwise pious man to compromise his convictions (e.g. Gen 3:6). All too often, in a mixed marriage, the mother's religion will be taught to her children because husbands, as a rule, put a higher priority on sex and peace in the home than religion, so they won't risk alienating mama by forcing the issue. The sons of God in Noah's day-- whose wives were chosen based solely upon sex appeal sans any spiritual prudence whatsoever --all perished in the Flood right along with their infidel wives and children. Not a one of them had the good sense to go aboard the ark with Noah.

It's never wise for believers to marry outside their faith. A good example is Solomon. He got off to a good start but down the road accumulated a harem of foreign women who led him into idolatry; which subsequently caused The Lord to engineer rebellion in the kingdom. (1Kgs 11 & 12)

Buen Camino
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[Webers_Home]

Not A Post

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[Webers_Home]

Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 6:3a . . And Yhvh said: My Spirit shall not strive with man forever

Some translations have "abide" instead of strive. But the Hebrew word is diyn (deen) which means: to rule; by implication: to judge (as umpire); also to strive (as at law). It can also mean to plead the cause of; or to contend in argument.

So. How did Yhvh accomplish this striving with man? In person Himself? No; just like He always has: via an inspired man.

†. 2Pet 2:5 . . Noah, a preacher of righteousness

Old Testament preachers (a..k.a. prophets) were inspired by, of all things, the Spirit of Christ (1Pet 1:10-11, 1Pet 3:18-20). So when Yhvh said "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever" He was speaking of the Spirit of Christ; viz: the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are one and the same spirit. This can be seen very clearly at Rom 8:9.

Anyway, point being: there does come a time when God's patience runs out. Not because He can't take it anymore, but because when human beings become too decadent and too incorrigible, then any more reasoning with them is like trying to tear down the wall of China with a feather duster.

Contrary to the mushy, sob-sister brand of Christianity going around like swine flu, there is a time when forgiveness is not only impractical, but it's also unreasonable. Hell is populated with people who will never, ever be forgiven. They crossed a line and now there's no going back; ever. God no longer has any interest in their welfare. They are forgotten and ignored; and can expect neither pity nor sympathy from God ever again.

†. Gen 6:3b . . for they are only mortal flesh.

The word "mortal" isn't really mortal. It's from shagag (shaw-gag') which means: to stray; viz: sin. The phrase "they are only mortal flesh" is actually huw' bshagam baasaar which means: they are sinful flesh.

That is one of the most striking statements in the Bible; straight from God Himself-- His own judicious estimation that man isn't basically good; no, au contraire; man is quite basically evil.

Some feel that the doctrine of "The Total Depravity Of Man" is a wholly Christian invention. Far from it. Here in Genesis, the very first book of the Bible, in man's prehistoric years, prior to the Flood, prior to Abraham, prior to Jesus, and prior to the New Testament; God said: they are sinful flesh.

†. Gen 6:3c . . yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.

Some feel that God set the limits of human longevity in that verse. But people still continued to live long lives for a great number of years afterwards. Even Abraham, who lived many, many years after the Flood, didn't die till he was 175 years old. It's far more reasonable to conclude that God was announcing a deadline; viz: they had 120 years left to get ready to meet their maker. But you think that alarmed anybody? Heck no. They went right on; business as usual.

†. Luke 17:26-27 . . And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

The time of God's patience is sometimes long; but never unlimited; viz: reprieves are not pardons-- though God bear a great while, He never bears forever.

†. Gen 6:4 . .The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

The Hebrew word for "Nephilim" is nephiyl (nef-eel') which, though some English Bibles translate it "giants" actually indicates a bully; viz: a tyrant; which Webster's defines as an oppressive ruler unrestrained by either law or constitution. According to that; even a wiry little Bantam rooster is a nephiyl. In other words: one needn't be tall and broad to fit the description. I think most of us would agree that despots like Kim Jong Ill and Robert Mugabe are nephiyls; but in reality, even the predatory barracudas infesting Wall Street, and the unscrupulous CEO's commanding corporate board rooms fit the profile.

Nephilism is a curious syndrome that produces people of extraordinary mettle and ambition. The condition is apparently predominant in males; though the Hebrew word for "men" isn't gender-specific and therefore doesn't rule out the possibility of androgynous females; which are usually labeled "domineering" by the people under them-- for example England's ex-Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, and ex-Speaker Of The US House Of Representatives Nancy Pelosi.

Personality-wise, the Nephilim were above average in recognition and achievement, and mirrored the Vikings in exploits and daring; e.g. Genghis Khan, and men like Alexander the Great of Greece; Napoleon of France, Chandragupta Maurya of India, shogun Minamoto no Yoritomo of Japan, conquistador Hernando Cortes of Spain, Timur: founder of the Timurid dynasty, and Zahir-ud-din Muhammad Babur: founder of the Mughal dynasty that ruled the Indian subcontinent for over three centuries.

Not all Nephilistic people spill innocent blood to achieve their goals; but I think it's safe to characterize all of them as highly competitive over-achievers in politics, business, sports, military, entertainment, and religion. The Nephilim of that day all perished in Noah's flood, but the syndrome itself resurfaced later in the sons of a man named Anak; whose progeny were famous for their size and prowess. (Num 13:31-33, Deut 9:1-2)

Note: the Nephilim didn't migrate here from Jupiter. No, they descended from Adam; as does everybody else-- the short and the tall, the great and the mediocre, the doers of amazing things, and the doers of nothing significant; the obscure and the outstanding are all Adam's progeny.

Buen Camino
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Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 6:5 . .Yhvh saw how great was man's wickedness on earth, and how every plan devised by his mind was nothing but evil all the time.

It's one thing to be guilty of an evil act. It's quite another to be infected with an evil mind. There are some who believe that the Bible's God weighs only actions. But here, in the very beginning, He was already weighing the activity of the human mind; and said that the human mind was evil --not just some of the time, but all the time.

What does that mean really? Does it mean that people in those days thought only about rape, and robbery, and embezzlement, and kidnapping, and sleeping around, and entertainment, and food, and power, and wealth, and revenge? Maybe. I guess you could include those things; but I think it goes much deeper than that.

God said that antediluvian man was lawless (Gen 6:11) which Webster's defines as: unruly; viz: unrestrained by laws and rules. It's not really eo ipso evil to be lawless if one's intuitive moral compass is in harmony with absolutes. But man's moral compass parted company with his maker's moral compass because of the forbidden tree incident. In other words: the antediluvians' moral compass didn't point north; in point of fact, it pointed in no direction at all but instead simply spun around like a roulette wheel, so that what they thought was right, was, in many cases, actually wrong; and what they thought was wrong, was, in many cases, actually right.

†. Isa 5:20-21 . .Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

The disharmony of the compasses has its roots all the way back at the garden when God observed: "the man has become as one of us, discerning good and evil". Consequently, the good that humans discern isn't always the good that God discerns, and the evil that humans discern isn't always the evil that God discerns.

†. Gen 6:6 . . And The Lord regretted that He had made man on earth, and His heart was saddened.

"Regret" is from the Hebrew word nacham (naw-kham') which means, among other things: to sigh, i.e. breathe strongly, to groan; by implication, to be sorry, i.e. (in a favorable sense) to pity.

God doesn't hate Himself for creating Man. No, not at all. On the final day of creation, when Man was created, God looked back over His handiwork and announced it was all not just good; but "very good".

Creation's God was pained by the antediluvians' decadence; much as a parent is disappointed in a child for whom they had high hopes, but ends up a loser instead. The antediluvians resisted God's Spirit by turning a deaf ear to Noah's pulpit-- they finally resisted his preaching to the point of no return. Hence: God was saddened; and finally, because nothing else could be done; He removed them from the earth as a HazMat team would deal with a chemical spill. They were toxic and God was forced to take drastic steps to clean up their mess.

†. Gen 6:7 . .Yhvh said: I will blot out from the earth the men whom I created-- men together with beasts, creeping things, and birds of the sky; for it grieves me that I made them.

The wording of that verse makes it look like God was grieved with the animal kingdom too; but I seriously don't think that's the right way to take it. Through no fault of their own, they became collateral damage.

The Hebrew word for "blot" is from machah (maw-khaw') which means: to stroke or rub; by implication, to erase; also to smooth (as if with oil), i.e. grease or make fat; also to touch, i.e. reach to.

God intended to not only remove the antediluvians from the face of the earth, but also to scrub off all of their works too so that when He was done, it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to even be able to tell the antediluvians were ever here at all.

It's always been a mystery to me why paleo-anthropologists have managed to find so few fossilized remains of pre-historic human beings. In 1992, Tim White of the University of California at Berkeley, discovered the fossilized skeletons of human-like creatures in Ethiopia's Afar Rift who lived 4.4 million years ago but those are not the remains of homo sapiens; but rather, of beasts that resemble homo sapiens. To my knowledge; no truly human remains have been found from that era.

But my point is: where are the remains of the antediluvians? They're gone; lock, stock, and barrel-- no metal implements from Tubal-Cain's blacksmith shop, no musical instruments from Jubal's work shop, no dwellings, no footprints, no bones, no pottery, no cave art, not even any geological evidence of a world-wide deluge: nothing. It's like they were never here. God moved against the antediluvians like a relentless newspaper editor deleting superfluous words and sentences so skillfully that the reader cannot even tell those superfluous words and sentences ever existed in the original copy.

Buen Camino
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[Webers_Home]

Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 6:8 . . But Noah found favor with The Lord.

The word for "favor" is from chen (khane) and means: graciousness. Translators sometimes render chen as grace. It can be either grace or favor; but the important thing is that The Lord didn't find chen with Noah. No, just the opposite-- Noah found chen with The Lord.

Webster's defines "graciousness" as merciful, compassionate, kind, courteous, cordial, affable, genial, and sociable. Those are all good qualities, and the very things you would expect to see in someone you loved and trusted-- like your spouse or a very close friend.

†. Gen 6:9 . .This is the line of Noah. -- Noah was a righteous man; he was blameless in his era; Noah walked with God.

Is that verse saying Noah was flawless? No; perfection in the Bible means something altogether different than what you'd expect. The Hebrew word for "blameless" is: tamiym (taw-meem') which just simply means entire; in other words; no pieces missing and everything in working order; for example:

†. Gen 17:1-2 . . When Abram was ninety-nine years old, Yhvh appeared to him and said: I am God Almighty; walk before me and be blameless.

Well; I can assure you that Mr. Abram was never flawless; nevertheless he was blameless; and he was also a prophet; which in the Old Testament indicates an inspired man.

No doubt Noah had plenty of sinful thoughts in his head right along with everybody else before the Flood, and no doubt those thoughts contributed their fair share towards the sadness God felt because of man's wickedness; but nevertheless; Noah was blameless-- and that's because unlike Cain who walked away from God, Noah walked with God; in other words: Noah let himself be illuminated by the light instead of shielding himself from the light.

†. John 3:19-20 . .This is the condemnation: that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

People walking in the light don't object to having their evil thoughts exposed because they can get them expunged in a matter of seconds.

†. Ps 32:5-6 . . I confessed all my sins to you and stopped trying to hide them. I said to myself "I will confess my rebellion to The Lord" and you forgave me! All my guilt is gone. Therefore, let all the godly confess their rebellion to you while there is time, that they may not drown in the floodwaters of judgment.

†. 1John 1:8-10 . . If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just; and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

And that's the secret to a blameless walk with the Bible's God.

†. 1John 1:6-7 . . If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth. But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Did Noah know about Christ all the way back then? He sure did.

†. 1Pet 1:10-11 . . Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

The other thing said of Noah was that he was righteous. The Hebrew word is tsaddiyq (tsad-deek') which means: just.

Webster's provides several definitions of "just", but perhaps the ones best suited for our purpose are: conscientious, honest, honorable, right, scrupulous, true, dependable, reliable, tried, trustworthy, dispassionate, equal, equitable, impartial, nondiscriminatory, objective, unbiased, uncolored, and unprejudiced. So then, Noah was not only religious to his fingertips; but he was a pretty decent guy to boot.

The most incredible thing about Noah was his degree of piety in a world gone mad with evil. He must have endured an enormous amount of opposition, ridicule, criticism, and thoughtless remarks. Yet he persisted and didn't cave in to the thinking of his neighbors and friends; nor of his brothers and sisters, nor of his nieces and nephews, nor of any of the rest of his kin. Only his wife, and his three sons and their wives responded to Noah's preaching; yet he continued to warn people about the Flood right up to the end.

To the majority of modern intellectuals, Noah is merely a mythical character, and to them his ark and its animals are nothing but a story-book menagerie for children's coloring books. To them, it is much too naïve to give any serious consideration to Noah being an historical person. However, later writers of the Bible felt differently. God lists Noah among three of the most righteous men in Bible history.

†. Ezk 14:13-14 . . Son of man, when a land sins against Me by persistent unfaithfulness, I will stretch out My hand against it; I will cut off its supply of bread, send famine on it, and cut off man and beast from it. Even if these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they would deliver only themselves by their righteousness: testifies Yhvh God.

Noah was actually a nobody in his day; eclipsed by the Nephilim, those mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. They got all the press, the publicity, and the notoriety while God's man went marginalized and largely ignored.

†. Gen 6:10 . . Noah begot three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Were those the only kids Noah had? And no daughters? I seriously doubt it. Noah was six hundred when the flood began. It is unlikely that a healthy, hard working, robust man would live that long without engendering a much larger family than three; especially in those days without birth control. But these three boys are the only ones that count now because they're going on the ark with their dad; and also destined to re-populate the new world.

†. Gen 6:11a . .The earth became corrupt before God;

The word for "corrupt" is shachath (shaw-khath') which means: to decay, decompose, and/or disintegrate; viz: to become decadent.

The perspective "before God" indicates the Almighty's own personal estimation. No doubt the antediluvians disagreed with God's evaluation of their spiritual condition just like people today disagree with His evaluation of their condition. And again, this disparity of evaluations has its roots all the way back in the garden when humans became their own gods; discerning right and wrong from within a humanistic system of values instead of their creator's.

Buen Camino
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[Webers_Home]

Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 6:11b . . the earth was filled with lawlessness.

Crime is pretty much the inevitable outcome in a world of sinful beings sans cops and courts. Nobody was accountable for a single thing in those days. The only rules that may have existed were those among clans or in towns. But those rules wouldn't be universal. Rules like that would be different from clan to clan and from town to town. And primitive clans are known to war with each other on a regular basis like the Native Americans did here in America's early years.

I just hope I don't live to see the day when some sort of nationwide disaster, like a nuclear holocaust, occurs in America. Nobody will be safe. Electrical power will be out, the banks won't be open, ATM machines won't work, and everyone will be so desperate to survive. Roving gangs of thugs will prowl the rubble looking to scavenge and to steal anything not nailed down or protected by guards. Law enforcement and medical services will be so overwhelmed that dialing 911 will be no more productive than writing a letter to Santa Claus; that is, if telephones even work. If hurricanes Katrina and Sandy taught us anything in New Orleans and Manhattan, it's that large-scale disasters produce large-scale anarchy and chaos.

According to the 2011 World Almanac, in the year 2009, there were a total of 4,343,450 violent crimes committed against individuals in the USA . The number of property crimes committed against individuals totaled 15,580,510. Those totals exclude arson and non-victim types of crimes like perjury, contempt of court, internet hackers, identity theft, traffic violations, J-walking, trespassing, animal abuse, feeding parking meters, cheating on taxes; et al.

The criminal element has neither honor nor sympathy for its victims. After the September 29, 2009 tsunami subsided in Samoa, residents returned to neighborhoods only to find that their homes had been looted.

And to think the USA and its territories are a society of law abiding citizens. Just think what it must have been like in Noah's day with no organized civil authority whatsoever to control crime. All I can say is; if something really bad should ever happen here in the USA, you'd better own deadly weapons like swords and guns plus lots of pepper and/or bear spray because neither your life nor your possessions will be safe after dark.

†. Gen 6:12-13a . . God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. So God said to Noah: I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them.

Some people would probably like to translate some of that verse like this: "for the earth is filled with violence through God." But Genesis doesn't say it was filled with violence through God; no, God said it was filled with violence through them.

†. Gen 6:13b . . I am about to destroy them with the earth.

Here is set a precedent of God forewarning His own when He is about to execute a disastrous event upon the earth. The Passover was another such example. God forewarned Moses, and Moses' people, of the imminent annihilation of all the firstborn of Man and Beast in Egypt; which would also impact Moses and his people if they didn't do exactly as God said and paint the blood of a lamb on their door jambs (Ex 11:1-13). And our man Noah, super-duper righteous saint that he was, would have drowned right along with the rest of the antediluvians had he neglected to construct an ark. When God gives a warning, it is best to respond accordingly.

†. Prv 22:3 . . A prudent man sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.

†. Gen 6:14a . . Make yourself an ark

The Hebrew word for ark is tebah (tay-baw') and just simply indicates, not a ship, but a nondescript box. The only other place tebah is used again in the Old Testament is of the little watertight container Moses' mom constructed to hide him from Pharaoh's assassins. (Ex 2:110)

†. Gen 6:14b . . of gopher wood;

Nobody really knows for sure exactly what kind of trees Noah used to make the ark. The word for "gopher" has nothing to do with little subterranean rodents. It's a transliteration of the Hebrew word gopher (go'-fer) which only suggests a kind of tree suitable for building structures out of wood. Some think it was cypress because the wood of those trees is so resinous that it resists rotting even after prolonged submersion in water. Others think it may have been cedar or spruce; which are good too. Unfortunately, this is the one and only occurrence of gopher in the entire Old Testament so there's no other passages that might help identify a specific kind of tree.

†. Gen 6:14c . . make it an ark with compartments,

The word for "compartments" is from qen (kane) which means: a nest (as fixed), sometimes including the nestlings; figuratively, a chamber or dwelling. The construction of nests (and stalls) indicates the animals weren't just herded or jammed together like the crowds attending an outdoor Justin Bieber concert. They were neatly stowed aboard in their own areas and apparently made to feel quite comfortable.

†. Gen 6:14d . . and cover it inside and out with pitch.

The word for "pitch" is kopher (ko'-fer) which means: a cover. It can also mean a village (as covered in); and also bitumen (as used for coating) and the henna plant (as used for dye).

Kopher is a common word in the Old testament for "atonement" which is like pitch as a coating, or a covering, which is not only a sealing compound like the stuff people apply to weatherproof their patio decks, but also a concealment coating like paint, and tar and feathers.

An atonement, while not actually removing sins; served at least to conceal them, which, for all intents and purposes, granted the sinner a reprieve until Christ's crucifixion fully satisfied justice for their conduct (Rom 3:23-25) and that's the means by which the Lord became an atonement.

†. Col 3:3 . . For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

The ancient Greek word for "hid" is krupto (kroop'-to) which means: to conceal (by covering). It some locations krupto is translated "to keep as a secret"

Prior to Christ; Yhvh's worshippers didn't die for their sins; their sacrifices did the dying for them. However, Christ's atonement goes one better in that it executes the Lord's followers by means of their proxy participation in his crucifixion. On the books, the Lord's atonement not only conceals his follower's sin; it puts them to death too.

†. Rom 6:3 . . Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

†. Rom 6:6 . . Our old self was crucified with him

†. Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ

Anyway; coating the ark with bitumen not only served to waterproof it; but also preserved the wood for future uses after the Flood subsided a year later when Noah no longer had need of a titanic water craft.

Buen Camino
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[Webers_Home]

Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 6:15a . .This is how you shall make it:

Some have objected that since paper and writing were not yet invented in Noah's day, then God couldn't possible have provided him with plans to the ark. But any pictograph, even one on a clay tablet or a rock face, qualifies as a drawing. That objection infers that the Bible's God was illiterate until Man learned to read. (chuckle) I guess it just never occurs to them that holy men like Noah were far more advanced than your average cave-dwelling hominid.

†. Gen 6:15b . . the length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits.

There was a cubit among the Babylonians, and one in Egypt too. But there seems to have existed double standards in both countries. Because of that, there exists no undisputed example of the cubit that remains to the present time; so the length of the cubit has been variously estimated.

One of the ancient cubits was the length of a man's forearm, from the elbow to the tip of the middle finger, as is implied from the derivation of the word in Hebrew and from the Latin cubitum. It seems to be referred to also in Deut 3:11 as "after the cubit of a man." But that's too vague, and unsuitable for a scientific standard because not all men's arms are exactly alike.

The Babylonians employed two different cubits: the so-called royal cubit and the common cubit. From the remains of buildings in Assyria and Babylonia, the royal cubit is made out to be about 20.6 inches. A cubit of similar length was used in Egypt. This was probably the cubit mentioned by Ezk 40:5 and possibly that of Solomon's temple as "cubits after the first measure" (2 Chr 3:3)

The commercial cubit was shorter, and has been variously estimated at between 16 and 18 inches or more, but the evidence of the Siloam inscription and of the tombs in Palestine seems to indicate 17.6 inches as the average length. This was the cubit of six palms, while the longer one was of seven (Ezk 40:5). The cubit mentioned in Judges 3:16 is from a different word, the Hebrew gomedh, and was probably shorter.

The cubit of Noah's day remains a total mystery. We have no way of knowing exactly how long it was. Maybe Noah and his boys passed on their antediluvian knowledge of weights and measures to the post-flood world and it stayed pretty close to the original standards over the years; but it's impossible to know for sure.

If we use an 18-inch cubit as a close approximation, then the ark would have been in the neighborhood of 450' long x 75' wide x 45' high. The ark's beam was 30 feet wider than its height, so should have proved very stable, and difficult to capsize even in rough seas-- especially since it had a flat bottom, which was good too for the purpose intended.

Nothing fancy. Since it didn't have to navigate, nor did it require a means of propulsion, there was no practical need for a bow, or a stern, or a wheel house, a rudder, sails, engine room, anchor, windlasses, or masts-- not even a handrail around the main deck. Since the ark didn't have to cut through the water like a schooner, there was no need for tapered undersides. All the ark really had to do was float. It was really nothing in the world but a barge: and a very crude barge at that. Really little more than a very large watertight crate.

Compared to modern ships, 450 feet is not all that big. Oil tankers are around 1,500, and the Nimitz aircraft carrier is about 1,092 feet. The distance from home plate to the center field fence in major league baseball, averages 400 feet or better. So the ark would just about fit into Yankee stadium. The main playing area of a football field is 300 feet. Add 26 more for the end zones, and the total is 326; which is still 124 feet short of the ark's length but at least gives some idea of its scale.

†. Gen 6:16a . . Make an opening for daylight in the ark, and terminate it within a cubit of the top.

The ark was probably capped with a steeply sloped roof so the immense volumes of water falling from the sky during the rain stage of the Flood wouldn't impinge it perpendicularly; but rather strike a glancing blow; and the eves were likely quite considerable so water running off the roof wouldn't find its way to the window. Whether or not the window was shuttered isn't stated, but was very likely a practical consideration. The first forty days of the Flood were extremely inclement.

When my son was a little boy I built a playhouse for him in the backyard with ventilation somewhat similar to the ark's. The exterior siding on the walls stop at the plate; and I left the 3½-inch space between the roof and the plate unfinished. That way air can freely circulate in and out of the playhouse. After my boy grew up, mommy raccoons starting using his playhouse to birth their cubs.

The dimensions of the window aren't stated. It could have been as wide as six feet and extended the full length and width of the ark-- all the way around it; who really knows. The only requirement was that it be adequate for light; but undoubtedly served for ventilation too. With all that respiration going on in there, Noah's air supply would become foul in very short order.

†. Gen 6:16b . . Put the entrance to the ark in its side; make it with bottom, second, and third decks.

A hatch in the hull was practical. Its cover could be let down as a boarding ramp.

The very bottom of a ship is normally not counted as a deck. The lowest deck is usually somewhat above the bottom and separated from it by a void called the double bottom. That way if the actual bottom is pierced, the ship won't sink because the void is sealed. Whether or not Noah's ark had a double bottom is unknown; but likely it had at least a bilge because the lowest deck needs to be above the bottom a bit so the passengers and crew don't have to slosh around down there in the lower parts of the ship where fetid water and other unsavory liquids typically collect.

The spaces between decks were fairly tall. If we divide 45 by 3 we get roughly 15 feet apiece not counting a bilge, nor the thickness of the deck planks and their beams. Fifteen feet can accommodate pretty tall animals; and provide enough room for the birds to exercise now and then too.

An ark 450 feet by 75 feet, with three decks would have provided 101,250 square feet of living space. If Noah were resourceful, he might have installed shelves and cabinets on the hull and the bulkheads, plus more on the overheads, and the underside of the ark's roof for even more storage/living space.

Detractors insist there wasn't enough space aboard for all the various creatures in Noah's day, but they fail to take into account a few facts. For one, nobody really knows how long the cubit of Noah's day was and, most importantly, nobody really knows how many species of life existed in his day. By the time Man appeared on this old earth of ours, some pretty colossal mass extinctions had already taken place; and on top of that, the species that exist on earth in our day, may not have existed in Noah's day, but instead what we are seeing in our day is the result of millennia of somatic mutations and adaptations.

Plus, larger creatures could have shared their spaces with smaller creatures, even permitting the ones smaller than themselves to climb up and rest on their backs. Life finds a way.

I wish we were told more about the ark-- how Noah and his boys fastened all the wood together, and especially how they cut it to size. They say there are seven wonders of the ancient world, but that is not quite accurate. There's actually eight if we include Noah's ark. Sure, building a big wooden barge like Noah's would be child's play for a modern shipyard like Northrop Grumman Newport News; but in his day, it had to be quite a feat.

Buen Camino
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[Webers_Home]

Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 6:17 . . For My part, I am about to bring the Flood-- waters upon the earth-- to destroy all flesh under the sky in which there is breath of life; everything on earth shall perish.

Some think the Flood was merely a local even rather than a worldwide deluge. But that is not the way Genesis describes it. The author quotes God saying; to destroy "all flesh under the sky" and "everything on earth" shall perish.

If the Flood were to be local, then it would only be necessary for Noah and his family and the animals to simply migrate to a different region rather than go to all the trouble of building an ark. No. The idea of localized flooding is totally unacceptable because "the sky" is everywhere.

Ironically, and perhaps even humorously, many of the people arguing for a localized Flood are convinced it's a myth anyway so I have clue where they see the point of arguing its extent.

The word for "waters" is from mayim (mah'-yim) which is a plural noun that can be used either in a plural sense as here in Gen 6:17, or in a singular sense as in Gen 21:14. Just exactly how much aquatic life died in the flood is hard to tell. If the seas were diluted with too much fresh water, then the salt water species would not do well. Same problem would apply to the fresh water varieties of life. Too much salt, and they could perish. Some species of sea life are adaptable to both fresh water and salt, e.g. Sockeye Salmon.

This raises an interesting question. At one time the whole earth was covered with water until such a time as God deformed the crust at Gen 1:9 to make high ground. Was that water salty or fresh? I would say salty because making fresh water doesn't require a miracle to manufacture; it just requires evaporation; which is a natural process rather than a miraculous process.

So then, were the waters of the Flood fresh water or seawater? I would venture to guess fresh, so that the resulting dilution of the waters of the oceans would probably (just guessing) leave them with enough salt percentage to support sea-dwelling creatures but not enough salt percentage to kill off the creatures of lakes, streams, and rivers.

†. Gen 6:18 . . But I will establish My covenant with you, and you shall enter the ark, with your sons, your wife, and your sons' wives.

Biblical covenants may include stipulations for all parties involved; and then again may stipulate responsibilities for only one of them with the other simply being along for the benefit. At this point in time, God didn't reveal any details about the covenant that "I will establish" until after the Flood was over.

†. Gen 6:19-20 . . And of all that lives, of all flesh, you shall take two of each into the ark to keep alive with you; they shall be male and female. From birds of every kind, cattle of every kind, every kind of creeping thing on earth, two of each shall come to you to stay alive.

Fortunately Noah didn't have to go on safari to round up his passengers. The Bible says two of each "shall come to you." There was plenty of time for them to make it because Noah was 120 years building the ark and getting it ready. Since the animals selected were cooperative and docile, then the smaller beasties could hitch rides on the larger ones and thus save themselves some steps.

A man named Dave Kunst walked across today's world in just a little over 4 years from June 1970 to October 1974. Kunst walked a total of 14,450 miles, crossing four continents and thirteen countries, wearing out 21 pair of shoes, and walking more than 20 million steps. That was an odd thing to do, but does prove it can be done in a relatively short time; so 120 years was plenty enough for all the critters to make it on over to Noah's place in time for the Folly's maiden voyage. If the ark were to launch in 2012, critters would have been on the move towards it since 1892 --eleven years before the Wright Brothers historical flight --and probably reproduced many times along the way since there are not all that many species that live to see 120 years of age.

But how did they cross oceans? In the past that was doubtless a thorny theological problem. But with today's knowledge of the geological science of plate tectonics, the answer is as simple as two plus two. We now know that continental land masses can be shifted, and in point of fact the dry parts brought so close together as to form one single super continent.

We also know about magma hot spots and pressure points that can raise the earth's crust like a service elevator. Subduction also plays a role; pushing sea beds up above sea level and made to form land bridges; thus expediting migration. Normal geological process take thousands of years to accomplish, but when you factor the Bible God's participation in the Flood event, it's no problem at all for He who has absolute power over not just the earth's geological processes; but all the rest of nature's processes too.

Actually the Earth's mantle is one continuous (albeit fractured) mass anyway, although its profile is so irregular that dry land sticks up above sea level at various high spots; which is a good thing because if the mantle were smooth, the world would be quite flooded all the time. In point of fact, if the Earth's mantle were perfectly smooth, like a billiard ball, there's enough water present even today to cover the land to a depth of 9,000 feet of water. That would be equivalent to a global ocean approximately 1.7 miles deep.

What about the dinosaurs? Did they go aboard with Noah too? It's very doubtful. Paleontologists are pretty sure the Jurassic era was over and gone by means of a mysterious mass extinction way before the entrance of human life.

It's believed by some that during the Permian period, 96 percent of all marine species and more than 50 percent of all other species disappeared. Later, at the end of the Cretaceous period, it's believed that another 1/3 of plant and animal species, including the dinosaur guys, went extinct.

So what about the carnivorous animals that came aboard with Noah-- the lions and tigers and hawks and eagles and meerkats and alligators and crocodiles? No problem. According to Gen 1:29-30, all manner of animal life survived on a vegetarian diet in the past; including Man.

Some skeptics have objected that a wooden vessel the size of Noah's ark couldn't be built because the timbers required for its structural strength would have been so massive that Noah would never have managed to construct it. But the ancients were far more ingenious than most people living today realize. For example, nobody yet has really figured out how the Egyptians built the pyramids nor how the people of Easter Island cut, carved , and moved all those big stone heads around. And the Egyptians aren't the only ones to mystify us. There are ancient stone structures around the world that seem impossible to be erected by human hands prior to the age of heavy construction equipment; but nevertheless, there they are.

Buen Camino
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[Webers_Home]

Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 6:21-22 . . For your part, take of everything that is eaten and store it away, to serve as food for you and for them. Noah did so; just as God commanded him, so he did.

Noah was every supervisor's dream. He did just what he was told and all without nary an argument; nor a single protest.

God didn't specify precisely how much food to load aboard. He only instructed him to store things that are edible; but not their quantity. Nobody can be sure whether or not Noah knew just how long the Flood was going to last. If he didn't, then of course he would have no idea how much food he needed to bring along.

It began to rain on the 17th day of the second month of the 600th year of Noah's life. The Earth was dry on the 27th day of the second month of his 601st year. So, reckoning time according to prophetic months of 30 days each, and not counting the final day, Noah's crew and passengers were aboard the ark for a total of 370 days; which is roughly 5 days over a solar year, and 10 days over a prophetic year.

Some have proposed that the animals hibernated so they wouldn't have to be fed very often nor require much room for exercise nor would they generate much manure to clean up. Others have proposed that Noah didn't actually load an entire year's supply of food aboard the ark. Just a minimum amount that God then miraculously sustained.

There are incidents in the Bible where small amounts of food stuffs were miraculously multiplied. One example is 1Kgs 17:8-16 where a tiny bit of flour and oil nourished Elijah and a widow woman, and her son, for a good many days during a time of prolonged drought.

Another incident is at 2Kgs 4:1-7 where a certain widow's husband died and left her deeply in debt. God multiplied her last pot of oil sufficiently to sell enough to pay off her debts, thereby saving her two sons from slavery.

At 1Kgs 19:5-9, when Elijah was running away from that horrible Jezebel, he was fatigued and napping under a bush when a messenger of God woke him up to eat a single biscuit and drink some water. Elijah survived on the nourishment of that measly little snack for the next forty days.

I'm not insisting that God sustained everyone aboard the ark like He did Elijah and the widows. But in the light of those Bible examples, it isn't unreasonable to believe that's exactly what happened. Many details remain a mystery and apparently God didn't feel it was important for everybody to know how He and Noah did it. Well . . that's His decision and I respect it; but I still wish Genesis told us more.

Another logistics problem was feeding everybody when the Flood was over. What would they eat then? Well, that was no problem. The olive leaf that a dove had in her beak at Gen 8:10-11 indicates that earth's flora was spared mass extinction by the Flood.

The Hebrew word for "plucked-off" at Gen 8:10-11is from taraph (taw-rawf') which means: recently torn off; in other words: the dove didn't pick up an old dead leaf lying around on the ground; no, it was fresh-cut and green right off the tree.

Common Objection : No vegetation should have survived. God predicted the mass extinction of all life on earth.

Response : The prediction was limited to creatures within whom was the breath of life. (Gen 6:17)

Common Objection : Animals cannot choose to hibernate, they must have the physical ability to do it. Rhinos, Elephants, Horses etc do not have the ability to hibernate.

Response : Do donkeys have a natural ability to speak?

†. 2Pet 2:15-16 . . Balaam son of Beor, loved the wages of wickedness. But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey-- a beast without speech --who spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.

The incident to which 2Peter refers is located at Num 22:21-30. It shows that animals can be altered by their architect to do things for which they were not designed.

Common Objection : So, are we to ignore the fact that the carnivores had nothing to eat?

Response : All animals were originally vegetarians. (Gen 1:29-30) and will again be vegetarians in the future. (Isa 11:6-9)

If people would just use their imaginations, and think outside the box on a grander scale than the pee-wee scale of science, empirical evidence, and the three-pound lump of flabby organic tissue housed within their bony little skulls sufficing for a mind; they might find the Flood a simpler event to accept than they thought possible.

To begin with the Flood was a miraculous event. Miracles can be roughly defined as events and circumstances absolutely contrary to nature. When skeptics try to analyze the Flood from a strictly scientific perspective, they invariably fail to understand how it could have possibly happened. People who don't believe in miracles-- who don't believe there is a supernatural somebody out there with enough power to manipulate the physical universe at will --always have problems with the Bible. But when a person believes in miracles, then Noah's experience, though I do not fully understand it, doesn't perplex in the least. In other words: faith believes what's revealed to it; rather than only what makes sense to it.

Buen Camino
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[Webers_Home]

Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 7:1 . .Then The Lord said to Noah: Go into the ark, with all your household; for you alone have I found righteous before Me in this generation.

What besides piety might qualify as "righteous" in Noah's day? Answer: belief that the Flood was coming. Here's an example of righteousness merited simply by believing the Bible's God is truthful.

†. Gen 15:5-6 . . He brought Abraham forth abroad, and said: Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them. And He said unto him: So shall thy progeny be. And he believed in Yhvh-- and He counted it to him for righteousness.

In other words; Noah was the only man in the antediluvian world who believed God when He said "The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth."

When Noah heard those words; he became frightened; and thus was highly motivated to construct the ark.

†. Heb 11:7 . . By faith Noah, being warned of things never before seen, moved with fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is by means of faith.

†. Gen 7:2-3 . . Of every clean animal you shall take seven pairs, males and their mates, and of every animal that is not clean, two, a male and its mate; of the birds of the sky also, seven pairs, male and female, to keep seed alive upon all the earth.

Official specifications for identifying clean, and unclean animals, are located at Lev 11:1-46, and Deut 14:3-20. Those specs were written many, many centuries after Noah; so precisely which animals were regarded as clean, and which not clean in his day is impossible to tell. But I think we can safely assume that "clean" animals were those in use at that time for ceremonial purposes rather than for diet since God had not yet instructed man to begin eating flesh.

The specific species that Noah took aboard were limited to the ones that God said in 6:20 "shall come to you". Any, and all, species that failed to come to Noah, went extinct in the Flood. He didn't go out and hunt them down, nor take them by force against their will. No; they had to show up on their own, or be left behind; and I have a sneaking suspicion that many were.

†. Gen 7:4 . . For in seven days' time I will make it rain upon the earth, forty days and forty nights, and I will blot out from the earth all existence that I created.

The expression "all existence" is from yequwm (yek-oom') which means: standing (extant) i.e. a living thing. Yequwm appears in only three verses of the entire Old Testament. Two of them are here in chapter 7, and the other one is in Deut 11:6.

God's prediction didn't include vegetation; because when the Flood ended, at least one olive tree was still standing. So "all existence" only meant creatures; in particular those that live on land and need air to survive; like birds, bugs, and beasts; whether subterranean or on the surface. (Gen 7:21-23)

The deadline hung over the world's head like a sword of Damocles; and the Flood was now imminent. But a seven-day final warning was issued probably just in case somebody might change their mind about going along with Noah. Compare this moment of silence to the one at Rev 8:1 just prior to blasting the seven trumpets.

†. Gen 7:5 . . And Noah did just as the Lord commanded him.

Not many people can say, with all honesty and a good conscience, that they do "just as" the Lord commands. It is a very unusual person who is careful to comply with God's will to the letter.

†. Gen 7:6a . . Noah was six hundred years old

Noah died at 950. So the Flood came at roughly 63 percent of the way through his life. According to the US Department of Health, an average American born in 2007 can expect to live to about age 78. Using that as a point of reference, Noah would have been roughly the equivalent of 49 years old when the Flood started.

†. Gen 7:6b . . when the Flood came, waters upon the earth.

The word for Flood is from mabbuwl (mab-bool') which means: a deluge. Mabbuwl is used twelve times in Genesis regarding Noah's worldwide cataclysm. The only other place in the entire Old Testament where that word is used again is in one of the Psalms; and even there it relates to Noah.

†. Ps 29:10 . .The Lord sat enthroned at the Flood; the Lord sits enthroned, king forever.

Note : kings are male; ergo: it is proper to always refer to the Bible's God with masculine pronouns; viz: him, his, and he.

Sometimes during huge natural disasters, people often ask: Where was God? How could He let this thing happen? Well, I don't know about those particular disasters but I do know about the deluge of Genesis. God was on His throne during that one, and in charge of the whole thing all the way.

There's another word for flood in the Old Testament, but the Hebrew in those instances is different. Mabbuwl stands out as uniquely indicative of this one particular event.

†. Gen 7:7-9 . . Noah, with his sons, his wife, and his sons' wives, went into the ark because of the waters of the Flood. Of the clean animals, of the animals that are not clean, of the birds, and of everything that creeps on the ground, two of each, male and female, came to Noah into the ark, as God had commanded Noah.

It was right about there that I would have become very nervous had I lived next door to the Noahs. Up till then, he probably seemed like an ordinary crack pot-- a nice enough guy, but kind of kooky, know what I mean? But when all those birds and animals showed up out at his place, and started boarding Noah's Folly all by themselves, in neither chaos nor confusion, and without Noah and his boys having to herd them in-- that was definitely cause for alarm.

It's true that wildlife at that time was not yet afraid of Man; and it was probably a very common sight to see them mingling with people all over the place-- maybe even assisting Noah to construct the ark --but not on such a scale as this. People had to wonder why all those bugs, and beasties, and birdies were migrating out there to Noah's spread. What's that all about? Did they maybe think to themselves that old fool might know something after all?

Buen Camino
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[Webers_Home]

Re: Genesis

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†. Gen 7:10 . . And on the seventh day the waters of the Flood came upon the earth.

Back in verse 4, God gave Noah seven days to get moved into the ark. The water came right on time, just exactly when God said it would. God's word carries different force in different circumstances. Sometimes He makes predictions, sometimes He makes promises, and sometimes He even makes threats.

Threats are often negotiable; sort of like an "or else". Like when Jonah went to Ninevah and walked around town heralding in the streets that within forty days they would be overthrown. When the people changed their ways, God backed off.

But a prediction isn't negotiable; nor is it open to discussion. When God makes a prediction, you can make bank on it because He's seen the future. The Flood was predicted. He said it was coming in seven days; and sure enough in seven days it showed up.

Note : the apostle John saw the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:10-15. That event is now inevitable because John's vision is a revelation; viz: a glimpse into not just one possible future; but the future.

†. Gen 7:11a . . In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month,

That's an important marker. I'll refer to it again later.

†. Gen 7:11b . . on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst apart,

The word for "deep" is from tehowm (teh-home') which indicates an abyss (as a surging mass of water), especially the deep (the main sea or the subterranean water-supply). Tehowm occurred very early on in the Bible's texts at Gen 1:1-2.

"When God began to create heaven and earth-- the earth being unformed and void, with darkness over the surface of the deep and a wind from God sweeping over the water"

The difference in Gen 7:11b, is that this deep is the great deep. The word for "great" is rab (rab) which means: abundant (in quantity, size, age, number, rank, quality), so that this particular deep could be thought of as bottomless-- a source of water beyond human imagination.

Water was one of the very first items created in the physical cosmos. It was truly an enormous amount and no one today has ever seen it all. There are yet vast reserves of water stored somewhere.

†. Ps 33:6-7 . . By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, by the breath of His mouth, all their host. He heaps up the ocean waters like a mound, stores the deep in vaults.

The word for "vaults" is 'owtsar (o-tsaw') which means: a depository. Webster's defines "depository" as a place where something is stored; especially for safekeeping. Examples of depositories are banks, libraries, museums, arsenals, cellars, silos, reservoirs, tanks, vats, and warehouses. President John F. Kennedy was assassinated from the window of a book depository.

There is roughly a total of about 340 million cubic miles of water on the Earth-- enough to cover the entire United States to a depth of 99 miles. But considering Earth's topographic configuration, that amount of water is nowhere near enough to cover the entire globe to a depth required for the Flood.

The atmosphere itself holds about 2,900 cubic miles of water at any given time; with the balance of Earth's water stored in oceans, rivers, lakes, ice caps, glaciers, permafrost, and the ground. Relatively little ground water is stored in subterranean voids. Most of it is soaked in tiny pores and cracks in soil and rocks. Almost all ground water resides within five to ten miles of the surface. Water below that depth is chemically bound in the rocks and minerals and not readily accessible; but can be released as a result of geologic processes such as volcanism.

Scientists have long suspected an abundance of water out in the cosmos. Well, it's there alright. According to Genesis and the Psalms, somewhere out in space (or perhaps beyond) God has quite a bit of water tucked away, and could easily end the world's water shortages with His reserves in no time at all-- and one day, in Messiah's theocratic kingdom; that will happen.

†. Mal 3:10-12 . . I will surely open the floodgates of the sky for you and pour down blessings on you; and I will banish the locusts from you, so that they will not destroy the yield of your soil; and your vines in the field shall no longer miscarry-- said the Lord of Hosts. And all the nations shall account you happy, for you shall be the most desired of lands-- said the Lord of Hosts.

†. Isa 41:18-19 . . I will open rivers in high places, and fountains in the midst of the valleys: I will make the wilderness a pool of water, and the dry land springs of water. I will plant in the wilderness the cedar, the ++++tah tree, and the myrtle, and the oil tree; I will set in the desert the fir tree, and the pine, and the box tree together.

†. Isa 55:13 . . Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to Yhvh for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.

†. Isa 35:1-7 . .The arid desert shall be glad, the wilderness shall rejoice and shall blossom like a rose. It shall blossom abundantly, it shall also exult and shout. It shall receive the glory of Lebanon, the splendor of Carmel and Sharon. Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then the lame shall leap like a deer, and the tongue of the dumb shall shout aloud; for waters shall burst forth in the desert, streams in the wilderness. Torrid earth shall become a pool; parched land become fountains of water; the home of jackals become a pasture; the abode [of ostriches] become reeds and rushes.

Lebanon's glory of old was timber; especially cedars (1Kng 4:33). Sharon was known for its flowers (Song 2:1) and Carmel for its orchards. (Isa 33:9)

It should be interesting to see how God gets timber, flowers, and orchards to flourish in deserts like the Negev, Syrian, Arabian, Dasht-e Kavir, Death Valley, Dasht-e Lut, Simpson, Atacama, Thar, Sahara, Gobi, Kalahari, Patagonian, and the Great Victoria.

†. Gen 7:11c . . and the floodgates of the sky broke open.

The sky of course being all that is visible when you look up; including the upper atmosphere and outer space. This means that it rained everywhere all over every square inch of the earth's surface all at one time, like a spherical implosion, sort of like the way they shape the charge in a nuclear device so the plutonium core is rapidly bombarded with neutrons from all directions at once.

Implosions are devastating, and in the case of water, I'd have to say that the initial impact of the first few days of imploding, non-compressible hydraulic fluid must have caused colossal destruction: possibly far more than an asteroid collision. Seriously: sans the hand of God, I really don't think the ark would have survived it.

†. Gen 7:12 . . (The rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights.)

†. Gen 7:13-16a . .That same day Noah and Noah's sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth, went into the ark, with Noah's wife and the three wives of his sons-- they and all beasts of every kind, all cattle of every kind, all creatures of every kind that creep on the earth, and all birds of every kind, every bird, every winged thing. They came to Noah into the ark, two each of all flesh in which there was breath of life. Thus they that entered comprised male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him.

That's another example where a "day" can be longer than twenty-four hours; in fact, the day here in Gen 7:13-16 is a whole week plus forty more days and nights. Thus from the time of God's invitation to come into the ark, and up until it stopped raining, was a day consisting of 47 calendar days.

Buen Camino
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