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[_ Old Earth _] The Flood is Biblical

PetriFB

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The Flood is Biblical

When we are talking about the flood, it is often held as the mere legend. Especially such people, who believe to theory of evolution, they don't believe than the flood has ever taken place.



But it is very good to ask, is the flood after all true. If we do the practical observations from the ground and fossils and also from the traditional knowledge of the people, refer them to the quite strongly, that the fact is the flood. They indicate that large group devastation have taken place really close in immediate past. In the following we will examine these evidences, which refer to the flood.
 
The evidence is lacking, gravely, for any such world wide flood. It's more likely just a regional myth that was incorporated into the Hebrew religion. The evidence for that hypothesis is reinforced by Gilgamesh.

If enough rain fell to cover the earth to the point where the bible specifies, then the heat released from billions and billions of raindrops with terminal velocity hitting the ocean would cause the ocean to boil.
 
PetriFB said:
The Flood is Biblical

When we are talking about the flood, it is often held as the mere legend. Especially such people, who believe to theory of evolution, they don't believe than the flood has ever taken place.
There is absolutely no evidence for a world wide flood. In fact there are two separate stories in the bible regarding the flood. They were intermingeled from other traditions which is why there are some contradictions on how many animals entered the ark and why Noah entered the ark three times. There was lot of hoopla earlier in the year about some expedition going in search of an "anamoly" on Ararat. Anybody heard anything yet or was this just another attempt at fanfare?



But it is very good to ask, is the flood after all true. If we do the practical observations from the ground and fossils and also from the traditional knowledge of the people, refer them to the quite strongly, that the fact is the flood. They indicate that large group devastation have taken place really close in immediate past. In the following we will examine these evidences, which refer to the flood.
If you do as you suggest you will discover that your beliefs are incorrect.The fossil record does not support the flood theory.
 
http://www.calvaryag.org/apologetics/ap ... _flood.htm

A. Historical Evidence.

1. The testimony of Jesus.
Jesus warned us concerning the immorality and the general lack of concern of the earth’s population just before He returns to this earth. He declared: “As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: they ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all†(Luke 17:26-27). The fact that Jesus believed in Noah’s flood and the complete destruction of all who lived at that time is very powerful evidence that the flood occurred. A person must believe Christ’s testimony or reject it. If you believe that Jesus was God incarnate then you must believe that He knew what He was speaking about when He talked about the flood.

2. Written flood legends from all over the world.
The fact that there are written records of the great Flood found in hundreds of nations and tribes from all parts of the world is firm evidence that these people groups all originated from the one family preserved through the cataclysm. All of these accounts are similar in one way or another to the Genesis record. The widespread nature of flood accounts throughout the entire human race is excellent evidence for the fact of a worldwide flood from a legal/historical point of view. See the following web site for a detail listing: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html It is important to note that 95% say the flood was universal; 70% say survival depended upon a boat; 66% say the wickedness of man was the cause; 88% say there was a favored family; 66% say the remnant was warned; 67% say animals were also saved; 57% say the survivors ended up on a mountain; 35% say birds were sent out; 9% say eight people were saved; and 7% mention a rainbow.

B. Archeological and Scientific Evidence.

1. Most of the earth's crust consists of sedimentary rocks. Over 70% of the earth's surface rock is sedimentary rock (the rest of earth's surface rock is volcanic igneous and metamorphic rock). Sedimentary rock was originally formed in almost all cases under water, usually by deposition after transportation by water from various sources. Sedimentary rocks are made up of pieces of rock or other material which existed somewhere else, and were eroded or dissolved and redeposited in their present location. Sedimentary rock results from moving water which lays down layer upon layer by what’s called hydrologic sorting (sandstone, siltstone, shale, limestone, etc). This means that over 70% of the earth’s crust has been moved by a great movement of water giving strong evidence for the flood.

2. Sedimentary rock is clearly visible near the top of Mt. Everest.
How could sedimentary rock deposits come to rest near the top of Mt. Everest? This could only occur if at some time in the past this mountain was under water. See this web site for pictures. http://library.thinkquest.org/10131/geology_visual.html

3. Mount Ararat was once submerged.
On Mount Ararat, a volcanic mountain complex, pillow lava is found at the 14,000 foot level. The United States Geological Society states: “Pillow lava is formed when basalts erupt underwater. Pillow lava’s are mounds of lava formed by repeated oozing and quenching of the hot basalt.â€Â

Pillow lava must be extruded under water and is recognized by its high glass content caused by very rapid cooling. All of the igneous rocks examined on Ararat by geologist Clifford Burdick were highly glassy. Ararat apparently was submerged in water to above the present 14,000-foot level. This evidence gives further weight to the Biblical account of the flood. These evidences from geology and many more point to a violent, catastrophic past history of the earth. They imply a global flood with associated volcanic and mountain building activity which changed the face of the earth.

4. The enormous numbers of fossils found around the world.
a. How are fossils formed? Fossilization requires rapid burial of a plant or animal. However, such burial is exceedingly rare today which makes fossilization almost non-existent in modern times. The existence of massive numbers of fossils worldwide is clear evidence of quick, mass burial. A global flood catastrophe would offer conditions most ideal to the location of these great numbers of fossils. The fossils give evidence that these animals were killed suddenly. Millions of fish fossils retained all the body parts indicating very rapid burial. Under normal conditions, fish do not fossilize. Dead fish are torn apart by scavengers and disintegrate on the ocean bottom. Fossils also exist with soft tissue like jellyfish and sponges. There are fossils that have preserved animal tracts in mud, fish odors, amino acids, proteins, epidermal bark in plants, cell details, chlorophyll, etc.

b. Fossils are found in the Himalayan Mountains. If you will go to the following web site http://library.thinkquest.org/10131/geology_visual.html you can see pictures of a marine animal called Ammonite which are found in large numbers in the Kali Gandaki river in Nepal. Ammonites were sea animals having shells - either straight or coiled. Some of the fossils are large with a diameter up to 2 meters. These animals are proof that the ocean once covered this area.

c. There are abundant fossil remains of marine life found atop every mountain range in the world. This evidence makes it clear that all the mountains of the world have been under water at some time in the past, as indicated by sedimentary rocks and marine fossils near their summits. For example, clusters of hundreds of gigantic (300kg/650lbs) fossilized oysters found atop the Andes Mountains in South America. See web site: http://library.thinkquest.org/10131/geology_visual.html

d. Fossils have been found in the coal deposits of Montceau-les-Mines near Autun in France. What could explain the sea, land, and lake creatures that have been found buried together in one massive fossil deposit. One of the richest fossil discoveries was found in the huge coal deposit of Montceau-les-Mines near Autun, France. Racing to beat the strip-mining machines, amateur fossil-hunters collected 7,000 slabs and more than 100,000 nodules before the mine was filled in.

Two paleontologists from the Museum of Natural History in Paris reported in Scientific American (September, 1988, p.70) that the evidence 'tells a contradictory story. They say this because some of the fossils are of marine (saltwater) creatures, some are definitely freshwater dwellers (e.g. amphibious), and some are definitely land creatures (e.g. spiders, scorpions, millipedes and certain insects and reptiles).

e. The massive worldwide coal deposits also lend further proof to sudden destruction of immense primordial forests. Coal is formed when trees, plants, roots, bark, or any vegetation (peat) are buried by water and sediment. The burial of this vegetation by sediment causes compaction, which squeezes out the water and over time through the chemical processes of decay coal is formed. Coal is actually fossilized decayed vegetation or peat.

f. The random order of the fossils. The fossils within the sediments do not exhibit strong evidence of a record of evolution with simple animals at the bottom, progressing type by type up to more and more complex animals. The order is often random or completely upside down or out of order for evolution. But this would be expected in a global flood catastrophe. Fossils from the supposed different 'ages' are often found mixed together. This indicates a huge mixing of animal bones that is not consistent with a local flood.

g. Example of random mixing of fossils. In excess of 3,000,000 fossils, representing more than 565 different species have been discovered in the La Brea Tar Pits in Los Angeles, California.

h. Difficult evidence to explain. In addition, in many sedimentary rock layers geologists find some very odd features. For example, fossilized trees buried at all angles, upside-down and right-side-up, often passing through multiple rock layers, obviously the result of a marine cataclysm. These "polystrate" fossils (poly, meaning more than one; strate, meaning rock layer) are a worldwide phenomenon.
 
willow the wip said:
http://www.calvaryag.org/apologetics/apologetics_11-evidence_flood.htm

A. Historical Evidence.

1. The testimony of Jesus.

We also know that Jesus taught lessons in parables. If I say "You better not be too arrogant, or you'll end up like Icarus", does that mean Icarus actually existed?? No, it means that I'm using an example of a story.


2. Written flood legends from all over the world.

This is circumstancial evidence, and not even good circumstancial evidence. Most cultures live near water (I wonder why). Rivers tend to flood in certain times of the year. Egypt is one such place that has annual floods. These cultures would certainly have had in their timeline a localized flood that was large enough to be worthy of mention, and as time progressed, the tale super sized into a global flood.

Another reason between the relation of these myths is that they were passed down and borrowed by other cultures. Sumeria resided between the Tigris and Euphrates river, they are one of the oldest cultures, and predated the written bible. Sumerian myth has a 'global flood' much like Noah. It's obvious that it was borrowed by the Hebrews, as much of their stories are, and put into the bible. This is indicative of nothing! The Romans borrowed the Green Gods, but changed their names, does that add testament to the Greek Gods existing?? no.



B. Archeological and Scientific Evidence.

1. Most of the earth's crust consists of sedimentary rocks. Over 70% of the earth's surface rock is sedimentary rock (the rest of earth's surface rock is volcanic igneous and metamorphic rock). Sedimentary rock was originally formed in almost all cases under water, usually by deposition after transportation by water from various sources. Sedimentary rocks are made up of pieces of rock or other material which existed somewhere else, and were eroded or dissolved and redeposited in their present location. Sedimentary rock results from moving water which lays down layer upon layer by what’s called hydrologic sorting (sandstone, siltstone, shale, limestone, etc). This means that over 70% of the earth’s crust has been moved by a great movement of water giving strong evidence for the flood.

This means nothing. Sediments deposited quickly look different from sediments deposited over thousands and thousands of years. You believe that the Global Flood deposited the sediments all at once, this could not be true. The amount of sedimentary rock in the world would have the oceans turning into a muddy goop. Not to mention the amount of heat released by the rain and fountains of the deep exploding would cook the earth.

Sure, sediments are deposited under water mostly, but not all at the same time.


2. Sedimentary rock is clearly visible near the top of Mt. Everest.
How could sedimentary rock deposits come to rest near the top of Mt. Everest? This could only occur if at some time in the past this mountain was under water. See this web site for pictures. http://library.thinkquest.org/10131/geology_visual.html

Mt. Everest is 29,000 feet high. It rained for 40 days. That's 30 feet per hour. That's not rain, that's hydrolic drilling. The pressure and heat would not only cook the earth, but destroy the land to bare rock.

3. Mount Ararat was once submerged.
On Mount Ararat, a volcanic mountain complex, pillow lava is found at the 14,000 foot level. The United States Geological Society states: “Pillow lava is formed when basalts erupt underwater. Pillow lava’s are mounds of lava formed by repeated oozing and quenching of the hot basalt.â€Â

Pillow lava must be extruded under water and is recognized by its high glass content caused by very rapid cooling. All of the igneous rocks examined on Ararat by geologist Clifford Burdick were highly glassy. Ararat apparently was submerged in water to above the present 14,000-foot level. This evidence gives further weight to the Biblical account of the flood. These evidences from geology and many more point to a violent, catastrophic past history of the earth. They imply a global flood with associated volcanic and mountain building activity which changed the face of the earth.

Pillow lavas were never seen on Mt. Ararat.

4. The enormous numbers of fossils found around the world.
a. How are fossils formed? Fossilization requires rapid burial of a plant or animal. However, such burial is exceedingly rare today which makes fossilization almost non-existent in modern times. The existence of massive numbers of fossils worldwide is clear evidence of quick, mass burial. A global flood catastrophe would offer conditions most ideal to the location of these great numbers of fossils. The fossils give evidence that these animals were killed suddenly. Millions of fish fossils retained all the body parts indicating very rapid burial. Under normal conditions, fish do not fossilize. Dead fish are torn apart by scavengers and disintegrate on the ocean bottom. Fossils also exist with soft tissue like jellyfish and sponges. There are fossils that have preserved animal tracts in mud, fish odors, amino acids, proteins, epidermal bark in plants, cell details, chlorophyll, etc.

Fossils are also sorted according to the Geological Era they were buried in. A global flood would not sort each fossil by age, with small less complex organisms at the bottom, dinosaurs in between, and then mammals on top. There would be humans mixed with dionsaurs, mammals mixed with dinosaurs. The heavier items would have been at the bottom, with lighter ones at the top, this is not so.

b. Fossils are found in the Himalayan Mountains. If you will go to the following web site http://library.thinkquest.org/10131/geology_visual.html you can see pictures of a marine animal called Ammonite which are found in large numbers in the Kali Gandaki river in Nepal. Ammonites were sea animals having shells - either straight or coiled. Some of the fossils are large with a diameter up to 2 meters. These animals are proof that the ocean once covered this area.

Yes, over millions of years, the land has changed shape. Mountains form, rivers form, lakes form, lakes disappear, rivers disappear....what's your point?

c. There are abundant fossil remains of marine life found atop every mountain range in the world. This evidence makes it clear that all the mountains of the world have been under water at some time in the past, as indicated by sedimentary rocks and marine fossils near their summits. For example, clusters of hundreds of gigantic (300kg/650lbs) fossilized oysters found atop the Andes Mountains in South America. See web site: http://library.thinkquest.org/10131/geology_visual.html

Yes, this means that the mountains were once "under" water. But not in the global flood sense.

h. Difficult evidence to explain. In addition, in many sedimentary rock layers geologists find some very odd features. For example, fossilized trees buried at all angles, upside-down and right-side-up, often passing through multiple rock layers, obviously the result of a marine cataclysm. These "polystrate" fossils (poly, meaning more than one; strate, meaning rock layer) are a worldwide phenomenon.

Polystrate fossils are not difficult to explain. It was explained by geologists a hundred years ago. Trees are buried partly, and then over thousands of years, are slowly buried. This doesn't happen instantly in a global flood, this happens over thousands of years.

Spirit lake, there is an entire forest of trees at the bottom of Spirit Lake. These trees are preserved, and buried. They will be used as evidence for a global flood by future fundamentalists in a few thousand years.
 
flood

willow the wip said:
http://www.calvaryag.org/apologetics/ap ... _flood.htm

A. Historical Evidence.

1. The testimony of Jesus.
Jesus warned us concerning the immorality and the general lack of concern of the earth’s population just before He returns to this earth. He declared: “As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: they ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all†(Luke 17:26-27). The fact that Jesus believed in Noah’s flood and the complete destruction of all who lived at that time is very powerful evidence that the flood occurred.
Again believing isn't evidence. The claim that Jesus quoted the now O/T should not be surprising. What else would he have referenced?

A person must believe Christ’s testimony or reject it. If you believe that Jesus was God incarnate then you must believe that He knew what He was speaking about when He talked about the flood.
True enough on the testimony part.We don't have any evidence outside of the bible for the life or existance of Jesus. As to any supposed knowledge of the flood he only referenced the writings he had and we don't know who wrote it.

2. Written flood legends from all over the world.
The fact that there are written records of the great Flood found in hundreds of nations and tribes from all parts of the world is firm evidence that these people groups all originated from the one family preserved through the cataclysm. All of these accounts are similar in one way or another to the Genesis record. The widespread nature of flood accounts throughout the entire human race is excellent evidence for the fact of a worldwide flood from a legal/historical point of view. See the following web site for a detail listing: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html It is important to note that 95% say the flood was universal; 70% say survival depended upon a boat; 66% say the wickedness of man was the cause; 88% say there was a favored family; 66% say the remnant was warned; 67% say animals were also saved; 57% say the survivors ended up on a mountain; 35% say birds were sent out; 9% say eight people were saved; and 7% mention a rainbow.
Unfortunately you have twisted the theories to suit your beliefs. Even though it is true that flood stories abound around the world in most cultures there is no evidence that these floods were worldwide since the possibility to travel around the world did not exist at this time. It is more likely that most cultures experienced local flooding or past a flood story around. The fossil record does not support a global flood nor did the technology exist for Noah to accomplish this feat.

B. Archeological and Scientific Evidence.

1. Most of the earth's crust consists of sedimentary rocks. Over 70% of the earth's surface rock is sedimentary rock (the rest of earth's surface rock is volcanic igneous and metamorphic rock). Sedimentary rock was originally formed in almost all cases under water, usually by deposition after transportation by water from various sources. Sedimentary rocks are made up of pieces of rock or other material which existed somewhere else, and were eroded or dissolved and redeposited in their present location. Sedimentary rock results from moving water which lays down layer upon layer by what’s called hydrologic sorting (sandstone, siltstone, shale, limestone, etc). This means that over 70% of the earth’s crust has been moved by a great movement of water giving strong evidence for the flood.
Again the geological strata does not support the facts. Please cite your claims for the above statement and the qualifications of the author.

2. Sedimentary rock is clearly visible near the top of Mt. Everest.
How could sedimentary rock deposits come to rest near the top of Mt. Everest? This could only occur if at some time in the past this mountain was under water. See this web site for pictures. http://library.thinkquest.org/10131/geology_visual.html
Why are we talking about Mt Everest? Anyway the mountain may have been under water at one time. That does not mean it was because of a flood. In fact most areas of the earth were once covered by water at one time. The earth is estimated to be about 5 billion years old. Thats a long time for things to happen.
3. Mount Ararat was once submerged.
On Mount Ararat, a volcanic mountain complex, pillow lava is found at the 14,000 foot level. The United States Geological Society states: “Pillow lava is formed when basalts erupt underwater. Pillow lava’s are mounds of lava formed by repeated oozing and quenching of the hot basalt.â€Â

Pillow lava must be extruded under water and is recognized by its high glass content caused by very rapid cooling. All of the igneous rocks examined on Ararat by geologist Clifford Burdick were highly glassy. Ararat apparently was submerged in water to above the present 14,000-foot level. This evidence gives further weight to the Biblical account of the flood. These evidences from geology and many more point to a violent, catastrophic past history of the earth. They imply a global flood with associated volcanic and mountain building activity which changed the face of the earth.
Again you are taking evidence and using it to suit your beliefs. IF Ararat was in fact covered by water at one time that does not mean a flood ensued. It only means that Ararat was once covered by water and nothing more.

4. The enormous numbers of fossils found around the world.
a. How are fossils formed? Fossilization requires rapid burial of a plant or animal. However, such burial is exceedingly rare today which makes fossilization almost non-existent in modern times. The existence of massive numbers of fossils worldwide is clear evidence of quick, mass burial. A global flood catastrophe would offer conditions most ideal to the location of these great numbers of fossils. The fossils give evidence that these animals were killed suddenly. Millions of fish fossils retained all the body parts indicating very rapid burial. Under normal conditions, fish do not fossilize. Dead fish are torn apart by scavengers and disintegrate on the ocean bottom. Fossils also exist with soft tissue like jellyfish and sponges. There are fossils that have preserved animal tracts in mud, fish odors, amino acids, proteins, epidermal bark in plants, cell details, chlorophyll, etc.
You are in error again. You fail to take into account the time factor. If in fact there was a great flood the simple fact remains that the heavier animals would sink first with the smaller animals would rest on top. The geological strata is just the opposite as it relates to fossils. This alone negates the idea of a flood story. The evidence doesn't support a worldwide flood . The vast majortity of scientists deny that a world wide flood occurred. Only creation scientists are pushing the flood story.

b. Fossils are found in the Himalayan Mountains. If you will go to the following web site http://library.thinkquest.org/10131/geology_visual.html you can see pictures of a marine animal called Ammonite which are found in large numbers in the Kali Gandaki river in Nepal. Ammonites were sea animals having shells - either straight or coiled. Some of the fossils are large with a diameter up to 2 meters. These animals are proof that the ocean once covered this area.
Again so what? All this means that during the early years of the earths existance water covered the Himalayan mts. You are grasping at a facts to confirm a belief. This is no evidence of a flood.

c. There are abundant fossil remains of marine life found atop every mountain range in the world. This evidence makes it clear that all the mountains of the world have been under water at some time in the past, as indicated by sedimentary rocks and marine fossils near their summits. For example, clusters of hundreds of gigantic (300kg/650lbs) fossilized oysters found atop the Andes Mountains in South America. See web site: http://library.thinkquest.org/10131/geology_visual.html
NO it doesn't.

d. Fossils have been found in the coal deposits of near Autun in France. What could explain the sea, land, and lake creatures that have been found buried together in one massive fossil deposit. One of the richest fossil discoveries was found in the huge coal deposit of Montceau-les-Mines near Autun, France. Racing to beat the strip-mining machines, amateur fossil-hunters collected 7,000 slabs and more than 100,000 nodules before the mine was filled in.
300 million years ago the area in question lay near the equator which explains the fossils you refer. NO evidence of a flood only water.

e. The massive worldwide coal deposits also lend further proof to sudden destruction of immense primordial forests. Coal is formed when trees, plants, roots, bark, or any vegetation (peat) are buried by water and sediment. The burial of this vegetation by sediment causes compaction, which squeezes out the water and over time through the chemical processes of decay coal is formed. Coal is actually fossilized decayed vegetation or peat.
Well at least we agree on how coal was formed. Do you know how pitch was formed? This is the stuff that Noah put on the ark to waterproof it. It is made the same way that coal is. Unfortunately this as well puts a hole in the idea of a flood since Noah shouldn't have had access to this because according to you it wasn't made yet.

f. The random order of the fossils. The fossils within the sediments do not exhibit strong evidence of a record of evolution with simple animals at the bottom, progressing type by type up to more and more complex animals. The order is often random or completely upside down or out of order for evolution. But this would be expected in a global flood catastrophe. Fossils from the supposed different 'ages' are often found mixed together. This indicates a huge mixing of animal bones that is not consistent with a local flood.
Please cite your reference for this claim because as I alluded to above the fossil record does not support a flood. If there was a massive flood larger animals would sink first followed by lighter animals. That is not what we find in the real world.

g. Example of random mixing of fossils. In excess of 3,000,000 fossils, representing more than 565 different species have been discovered in the La Brea Tar Pits in Los Angeles, California.
This is not evidence of a flood.

h. Difficult evidence to explain. In addition, in many sedimentary rock layers geologists find some very odd features. For example, fossilized trees buried at all angles, upside-down and right-side-up, often passing through multiple rock layers, obviously the result of a marine cataclysm. These "polystrate" fossils (poly, meaning more than one; strate, meaning rock layer) are a worldwide phenomenon.
Evidence that may be difficult to explain does not default to validating wishful thinking. There is no evidence of a flood in anything you have posted.
 
reznwerks its funny how you go out of your way to discredit the Bible and to say its not true this forum is a christion forum.

I would accuse you of being guilty of the same thing twisting evedence to disprove Gods word.

Mark Isaak is a respected geologest.

you can contact mark directly at eciton@earthlink.net

you want his refs ok

here they are

References
Berenbaum, May. 1993. "Apis, Apis, Bobapis. . .". American Entomologist 39(3):133-134.
- 1994. Oops Agassiz 1846 and other omissions. American Entomologist 40(1):9-10.

Cole, Chris. 1990. Word records from Webster's Third. Word Ways 23(2):81-87.

International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature. 1985. International code of zoological nomenclature, 3rd ed., University of California Press, Berkeley & Los Angeles.

Kidd, Stuart, 2004. Iouea: A creative coup. Word Ways 37(1): 44.

Lapage SP, Sneath PHA, Lessel EF, Skerman VBD, Seeliger HPR, and Clark WA. International code of nomenclature of bacteria (1990 Revision). American Society for Microbiology, Washington, D.C., 1992.

Kukalová-Peck, Jarmilla & Eugene S. Richardson, Jr. 1983. New Homoiopteridae (Insecta: Paleodictyoptera) with wing articulation from Upper Carboniferous strata of Mazon Creek, Illinois. Canadian Journal of Zoology 61(7):1670-1687. [A discussion of the appropriateness of Rochlingia hitleri appears on pp. 1684-86.]

Long, Samuel S., 1996, Tautonyms in Biology, Word Ways 29(3): 146-150, 29(4): 253-257.

McAtee, W. L., 1945, Nomina Abitera, privately printed.

Menke, Arnold. 1993. Funny or curious zoological names. B. O. G. U. S. [Biological and Other Generally Unsupported Statements] -2:24-27. (little known outside of the Bishop Museum, Hawaii)

Savory, Theodore Horace. Naming the Living World London: The English Universities Press Ltd., 1962.

Skerman VBD, Mcgowan V, and Sneath PHA. Approved Lists of Bacterial Names, Amended edition. American Society for Microbiology, Washington, 1989.

Thorpe, Susan. 1993. AEIOU words in biology. Word Ways 26(4):195-199, 27(1):13-19.

Zoological Society of London. Nomenclator Zoologicus,
Neave, Sheffield Airey. 1939-1940. vols. I-IV (1785-1935).
Neave, Sheffield Airey. 1950. vol. V (1936-1945).
Edwards, Marcia A. & A. Tindell Hopwood. 1966. vol. VI (1946-1955).
Edwards, Marcia A. & A. Tindell Hopwood. 1975, vol.VII (1956-1965).
Edwards, Marcia A. & Mary A. Tobias. 1993, vol. VIII (1966-1977).
 
willow the wip said:
reznwerks its funny how you go out of your way to discredit the Bible and to say its not true this forum is a christion forum.

I would accuse you of being guilty of the same thing twisting evedence to disprove Gods word.

Mark Isaak is a respected geologest.

It's funnier that you use sources that show a Global Flood is impossible for your argument that it is possible.
 
refs

willow the wip said:
reznwerks its funny how you go out of your way to discredit the Bible and to say its not true this forum is a christion forum.

I would accuse you of being guilty of the same thing twisting evedence to disprove Gods word.

Mark Isaak is a respected geologest.

you can contact mark directly at eciton@earthlink.net

you want his refs ok
===========================
Mark Isaaks is a creationist and not using accepted scientific methods. The vast majority of scientists accept evolutionary concepts as fact not because they want to but because the evidence is so overwhelming as to virtually make it a fact. The rest of your references are similar in error.
http://suhep.phy.syr.edu/courses/module ... igins.html
 
read it

willow the wip said:
http://home.earthlink.net/~misaak/

this is his research,
==========
You should read the link in its entirety and then ask if the refutations hold any merit. The bible is not a text book and even Genesis has several contradictions and many errors. in it. For starters read Genesis in its entirety and you will discover the story is "fishy" because at one point Noah collects two of each animal and he also collect seven of each. Noah also enters the ark THREE FINAL times before the rain started. In fact it has been proven you could split the story of the flood into TWO separate stories about it and they would be complete and contradictory.
 
Re: refs

reznwerks said:
Mark Isaaks is a creationist and not using accepted scientific methods. The vast majority of scientists accept evolutionary concepts as fact not because they want to but because the evidence is so overwhelming as to virtually make it a fact. The rest of your references are similar in error.
http://suhep.phy.syr.edu/courses/module ... igins.html

he's a creationist??? Then why does he have Talkorigins.org articles as his research. He doesn't seem to be a creationist, because he refutes Creationist arguments!
 
Re: refs

The Tuatha'an said:
reznwerks said:
Mark Isaaks is a creationist and not using accepted scientific methods. The vast majority of scientists accept evolutionary concepts as fact not because they want to but because the evidence is so overwhelming as to virtually make it a fact. The rest of your references are similar in error.
http://suhep.phy.syr.edu/courses/module ... igins.html

he's a creationist??? Then why does he have Talkorigins.org articles as his research. He doesn't seem to be a creationist, because he refutes Creationist arguments!
==========
I may have erred on whether Mark Isaaks is a creationist but I am not positive. His writings appear in the apologetics section of talk origins as arguements supporting a worldwide flood.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html
 
reznwerks as you dont believe the Bible there is not real arguement if it is so false you would not use it.
 
willow the wip said:
reznwerks as you dont believe the Bible there is not real arguement if it is so false you would not use it.


There is an argument, if people posit that it is true.
 
Their is no argument this is a Christian Forum, so this is where People use a thing called the Bible, as the source of truth, for if those who dont believe it comment, then their argument is of the world the canal man cannot understand the nature or sprit of God to teach other then the Bible is unloving becouse where is then the eternal soul of that person going, this is invalid, as the word of God is the final authority on all matters.

so as to those who do not believe and accept it there is no argument God created the earth and yes the flood did happen.

as the Bible is the final authority then their is no real argument.

Good day to you sir.
 
willow the wip said:
endless blabbering...

so as to those who do not believe and accept it there is no argument God created the earth and yes the flood did happen.

But even many of your christian friends here and in the entire world say a flood did not happen.

You saying a flood happened does not make it so.


as the Bible is the final authority then their is no real argument.

Then why do even Christians argue over this final authority?
 
as the Bible is the final authority then their is no real argument.
Which Bible? Which interpretation?
Its a strange idea to me, saying "I refuse to listen to your evidence because an ancient book disagrees with you". Its a book written by men, translated by men, and discribing a world for which a lot of natural phenomonen were not understood. If every piece of hard evidence says a man made book is wrong, then I'll take the facts over the fables.
 
Matthew 4:4, "he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

"Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God" (Matthew 22:29).

Proverbs 30:5-6:
"Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."

If these things did not happen the way the Bible said it happend then God is a lier.

If you cant believe that the Bible is not the whole absolute truth then you reject it and say as "a moral Book".

Then God has eather lied at this point or you cant accept God thus this means a person who as reject the whole of Gods word are unsaved.

Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him. (John 14:21)

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. [2 Timothy 3:16-17]

The Bible writers were not inspired as great artists are 'inspired' to produce great art. The word translated 'inspired' means "God-breathed." The Greek word is theopneustos, from two Greek words: theos, meaning "God," and pneo, meaning "to breathe". It conveys the idea of God "breathing out" the Scriptures. And since the word for "breath" can also be translated "spirit," we can easily see the work of the Holy Spirit as he superintended the writing.

The Bible has proven itself prophetically accurate. Hundreds of prophesies recorded in the Bible have been fulfilled to the letter, centuries after they were recorded. The only exception are those pertaining to the return of Jesus Christ to establish His reign on earth, and the subsequent establishing of the new heavens and the new earth.

Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread." Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"

Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: "'He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'" Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me." Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'"

Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him. (Matthew 4:1-11)

esus bears witness to the Bible's inerrancy where He emphasizes that the actual written words of Scripture can be trusted, not just the ideas they contain. Jesus demonstrated the power of the words of Scripture to defeat Satan when he tempted Him. We have that same weapon available to us today - the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God (Eph. 6:17).



I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:18)

Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him. (John 14:21)
 
Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." (John 8:31-32)
 
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