[_ Old Earth _] The Flood is Biblical

[Asimov]

You must not live near the ocean then. Because the ocean is salty, and undrinkable in terms of quenching thirst. "water water everywhere, and not a drop to drink".

Obviously Tuatha'an Noah had a desalinisation plant beside his refrigeration unit. I think he had the front of the boat with the cooling system and low temperatures required for the penguins and polar bears, the centre of the boat more temperate and the rear with heating units for all the warm living creatures.
I'm thinking the boat was like the tardis (phone booth from Dr Who), the boat may have only looked 400 feet on the outside but was actually the size of several warehouses inside. Level 1 50,000 animals with automated feeding. Level 2 30 million litres of pure water in airtight barrels. level 3 sleeping quarters, library and heli-pad.
Ah ha, while the Bible only said 8 people it didn't mention the robot crew... makes about as much sense as everything else...

hahaha, yea...cuz Noah lived to be 600 years old, he was obviously WAY more advanced than humans today.

 

[willow the wip]

The Tuatha'an sarcasm will get you no were in here this is typical from athests.

Not suprising why Jesus said "the world will hate you becouse of me."

 

[keebs]

The Tuatha'an sarcasm will get you no were in here this is typical from athests.

You mean that theists don't believe in sarcasm either? Oh, and saying that sarcasm is typical of atheists isn't saying much about yourself because sarcasm is a very effective form of rhetoric...

 

[willow the wip]

I would not say that eather sertern people who would waste their time on this forum trying to disprove the Bible yet they use the very book.

mmmm.

 

[keebs]

In some cases it is necessary to use the bible because Christians believe in and follow the bible. You accept the bible as truth, so we take advantage of that and exploit it.

 

[goliwog man]

I think slander has nothing to do with Noah.
The Tuatha'an sarcastic comments will only get christians praying for you. Other than that you prove you can get off the topic.

I think If God Can create the world he can destroy it.

As for exploiting the Bible, You would have to first prove it is not the word of God.

 

[keebs]

The way I see it, I do not have to prove the bible is the word of God in order to exploit it, because God doesn't necessarily exist.

 

[Asimov]

The Tuatha'an sarcasm will get you no were in here this is typical from athests.

Not suprising why Jesus said "the world will hate you becouse of me."

Sarcasm is not synonymous with hate. Don't think you are sooooo above everyone. Arrogance will get you no where, this is typical from Christians.

 

[Asimov]

I think slander has nothing to do with Noah.
The Tuatha'an sarcastic comments will only get christians praying for you. Other than that you prove you can get off the topic.

I think If God Can create the world he can destroy it.

As for exploiting the Bible, You would have to first prove it is not the word of God.

Anyways, if you want to pray for me, you can, but it does nothing.

Of course God can create the world and destroy it, he's God he can do anything he wants, right?? This means nothing. You can go ahead and believe that there were giants 4000 years ago, because it doesn't bother me. Is it scientific? no. That's what this forum is, a science forum. If your whole argument is:

" :B-fly: God can do anything, amen amen."

Then you're not arguing from a realistic standpoint, and definitely not a scientific standpoint.

 

[willow the wip]

now you are personalising things against me this is also braking the rulse

 

[Sophistress]

now you are personalising things against me this is also braking the rulse

So, can I just elucidate that every time you feel threatened you say your opposition is breaking the rules. Am I correct?

 

[goliwog man]

Well I think if science makes an impact on the Bible then the Bible will make an impact on science. Contrary To popular belief there is elements of science found in the bible that was knowledge found before we had it.

E.g How did isiah no that the world was round
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitance therof are as grass hoppers, and stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in. isiah 40v22 How did he know the earth was circular far befpre his time.

How did Job know that the earth rests on no material foundation, He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing and hangeth job 26v7

Moses knew life was in the blood gen 9v4 when medical science didnt know that till a late date. David know of the moon's bearing witness (Ps. 89:37) to the sunlight on the other side of the earth? How did David know that there are paths in the seas (Ps. 8:8) long before oceanography and Matthew Maury's work found it so?

This has little to do with evolution but notice that it isnt mentioned.
OK lets get back to the topic and respect everybody just a little bit.
Ill end with this question. What do people here think is the most unbelievable part of the flood epic?

 

[Asimov]

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitance therof are as grass hoppers, and stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in. isiah 40v22 How did he know the earth was circular far befpre his time.

The Greeks knew the earth was round, it's not that difficult to know this.

A circle isn't a sphere though. The Earth isn't round, it's spherical. What you describe is a disc, with a tent over it.

What do people here think is the most unbelievable part of the flood epic?

The whole thing. There is no evidence that shows a global flood, at all. There is no way that a global flood could have happened, no way that noah could have built the ark, no way he could have fit all the animals in the ark, and no way the animals or humans could account for the population of people showed in different parts of the bible.

It is thought that Ramses II may have been the Pharoah that the myth of the Exodus has taken place in. Ramses II between 1304 and 1237 BC. The Flood was in approx. 2400 BC. Are you telling me that there were not just two million jews, but a large population of Egyptians, enough to have an army of chariots. Only 1000 years after the flood??? Not to mention, the amount of people in China at the time? In Japan? In North America?? In Europe?? In Africa?? In Australia??

 

[reznwerks]

science

Well I think if science makes an impact on the Bible then the Bible will make an impact on science. Contrary To popular belief there is elements of science found in the bible that was knowledge found before we had it.

E.g How did isiah no that the world was round
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitance therof are as grass hoppers, and stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in. isiah 40v22 How did he know the earth was circular far befpre his time.

How did Job know that the earth rests on no material foundation, He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing and hangeth job 26v7
Compare that with this:
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)

Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

Matthew 4:8
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; (KJV)

Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from any place. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.



The flat Earth is established and can never move?! The Sun hurries back to where it rises?!

The Psalm 104:5 and Ecclesiastes 1:5 verses from the Bible in this section were sent to me by Abdullah Bisyir; may Allah Almighty always be pleased with him.

"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"

"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"

"Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world [Again, the deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 96:10)"

"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)" It doesn't sound like the bible is that accurate when it comes science.


Moses knew life was in the blood gen 9v4 when medical science didnt know that till a late date. David know of the moon's bearing witness (Ps. 89:37) to the sunlight on the other side of the earth? How did David know that there are paths in the seas (Ps. 8:8) long before oceanography and Matthew Maury's work found it so?
How is it that a tribe in Africa (Dogone) know about the dogstar which is light years away?

This has little to do with evolution but notice that it isnt mentioned.
OK lets get back to the topic and respect everybody just a little bit.
Ill end with this question. What do people here think is the most unbelievable part of the flood epic?

The part that said God told Noah...................

 

[goliwog man]

Population.
Data from the bible the bible (genesis 10,11) shows that the population grew quite quickly in the years immediately after the flood. Shem had five sons Ham had four and Japheth had seven. If we assume that they had the same amount of daughters then they averaged 10.7 children per couple. In the next generation Shem had 14 grandsons ham had 28 and Japheth 23 grandsons, 130 children in total, averaging of 8.1 children per couple. This is consistent with Gen 9v1 be fruitful and multiply. By the time 4 generations had past it would be about 3000 people on earth at this rate. (8.53)

By the way Ramses was never mentioned in the Bible, Some bible scholars now think that the pharaoh of the time may have been Amenemhet the 4th He had no successor (as pharaohs son did in the bible) So a queen took the reigns and ended the dynasty. He died around 1800-1795 BC. However The Bible doesn’t say which pharaoh So is the rate possible over 2000 years?

Now according to the bible the average range that the first son was born at was 35-29. So the generation time of 40 years is reasonable. After the maths we find that in 2000 yrs the was about.

 

[goliwog man]

Population.
Data from the bible the bible (genesis 10,11) shows that the population grew quite quickly in the years immediately after the flood. Shem had five sons Ham had four and Japheth had seven. If we assume that they had the same amount of daughters then they averaged 10.7 children per couple. In the next generation Shem had 14 grandsons ham had 28 and Japheth 23 grandsons, 130 children in total, averaging of 8.1 children per couple. This is consistent with Gen 9v1 be fruitful and multiply. By the time 4 generations had past it would be about 3000 people on earth at this rate. (8.53)

By the way Ramses was never mentioned in the Bible, Some bible scholars now think that the pharaoh of the time may have been Amenemhet the 4th He had no successor (as pharaohs son did in the bible) So a queen took the reigns and ended the dynasty. He died around 1800-1795 BC. However The Bible doesn’t say which pharaoh So is the rate possible over 2000 years?

Now according to the bible the average range that the first son was born at was 35-29. So the generation time of 40 years is reasonable. After the maths we find that in 400 yrs at thsi rate there would be 1o million people and the rate is consistent. E.g Jacob had twelve sons and a daughter And in adding all his grandsons I got a rate of 8.3

 

[Asimov]

Population.
Data from the bible the bible (genesis 10,11) shows that the population grew quite quickly in the years immediately after the flood. Shem had five sons Ham had four and Japheth had seven. If we assume that they had the same amount of daughters then they averaged 10.7 children per couple.

Assume? How many couples were there at this point?

In the next generation Shem had 14 grandsons ham had 28 and Japheth 23 grandsons, 130 children in total, averaging of 8.1 children per couple. This is consistent with Gen 9v1 be fruitful and multiply. By the time 4 generations had past it would be about 3000 people on earth at this rate. (8.53)

Do you take into account the death rate? Average life expectancy?

By the way Ramses was never mentioned in the Bible, Some bible scholars now think that the pharaoh of the time may have been Amenemhet the 4th He had no successor (as pharaohs son did in the bible) So a queen took the reigns and ended the dynasty. He died around 1800-1795 BC. However The Bible doesn’t say which pharaoh So is the rate possible over 2000 years?

Ramses is never mentioned, neither is amenemhet the 4th. Do you have a citation for Amenemhet being the Pharoah?

Now according to the bible the average range that the first son was born at was 35-29. So the generation time of 40 years is reasonable. After the maths we find that in 400 yrs at thsi rate there would be 1o million people and the rate is consistent. E.g Jacob had twelve sons and a daughter And in adding all his grandsons I got a rate of 8.3

I don't see any math, you are just giving me numbers. Do the math, show your work. As well as including the death rates.

 

[willow the wip]

Heathen

So, can I just elucidate that every time you feel threatened you say your opposition is breaking the rules. Am I correct?

No i would not be you can have opposition thats not the problem the problem is when people start getting personal that is called braking the rulse.

you see we can be opposite with out being too personal.

 

[Wertbag]

How did isiah no that the world was round?

He looked at the moon and saw a disk, he thought the earth would be the same. Just like if you ask a child to draw the sun, you get a yellow circle with lines coming out of it. Its pretty obvious to make a circle, harder to understand the sphere.

How did Job know that the earth rests on no material foundation?

Probably a guess along the same lines, you look at the moon and see the disk hanging in black space. You look at the skys and never see a foundation, so you logically say we are flying in space.

Moses knew life was in the blood gen 9v4 when medical science didnt know that till a late date.

Anyone that has seen injuries, war and death will come to this conclusion, you cut someone open and they bleed, bleed enough and you die. medical science was well aware of this basic fact, it was blood transfusions that caused problems with some religions (Jehovahs witnesses I think it was) as they said the life was in the blood so a transfusion was taking someone elses life and soul. Court orders have been often presented to force these people to accept life saving operations. Its simply reading too much into a simple statement.

How did David know that there are paths in the seas (Ps. 8:8) long before oceanography and Matthew Maury's work found it so?

Because Dave wasn't talking about ocean currents and the flow that we know of, more likely the physical layout under the water or the paths that sea creatures follow. Again the whole description is but one word "paths" far too little information to really know what exactly was meant, and definately too little information to say its a study of oceanography.

Data from the bible the bible (genesis 10,11) shows that the population grew quite quickly in the years immediately after the flood.

Because inbreeding really leads to healthy offspring. 8 people came off the boat, their children then married each other and had more children. Within the first few generations infertility, retardation, mutations and genetic defects would wipe out such a community. Even worse for the animals where there were only 2 of each.

What do people here think is the most unbelievable part of the flood epic?

Now that is a hard question, there are so many things to point to. If I had to pick one I'd say the food and water requirements for such a large number of animals.

 

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