The Foundation of God's Kingdom

[3rddayuprising]

Matt 16:13-18 (KJV)
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus is here setting the ground work for us in understanding the foundaton of God's kingdom. We see here that natural man, uninspired of God, will have many opinions about Christ and spiritual things. But, it is ONLY as God reveals to us the realities of His Kingdom do we know for sure of Christ and the spiritual realm.

Our Father in heaven REVEALED to Peter that Jesus was indeed the Christ, the Son of the living God. And then Jesus tells Peter, (verse 18) "And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

So, the Foundation...the "rock" upon which God's Kingdom is built is the Revelation of us knowing Christ and of Christ knowing us. Flesh and blood can not reveal or make known to anyone who Jesus truly is. Only the Father in heaven, by His Spirit, can reveal Christ to those of His choosing.

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Matt 11:27 (KJV)

The Foundation of God is secure and unshakable based upon the intimate relationship shared between His true sheep and Himself through the mediatorial Lordship and intercession of Jesus Christ.

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
1 Tim 2:5-6 (KJV)

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are His. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2 Tim 2:19 (KJV)

This is the only sure foundation of God's Kingdom..."the Lord KNOWS them that are His", and it is to them alone that He grants REVELATION. And likewise, it is them who are His that are sanctified and transformed from iniquity and self-will to serve Him "in Spirit and in Truth". John 4:24

Even as Jesus...our Pattern, we deny ourselves, not doing our own will, but only that which the Father shows us and leads us to do. By God's grace we strive toward this obedience and maturity of character.

Let it be understood clearly that "flesh and blood", the intellectual techniques, the educational studies and strategies of man can NEVER tap into the spiritual realm of God and the realities of His Kingdom. They are sealed and reserved for His predestinated sons and daughters.

The Revelation of who Jesus Christ is...is reserved for those to whom God chooses to show mercy. "Not of him that wills, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy." Romans 9:16

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
Romans 9:11 (KJV)

1 Cor 2:9-16 (KJV)
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Natural man has no place, nor lot, nor entrance in God's Kingdom until or unless God sees fit to draw them by His Spirit and "gives them to come" to Jesus; giving them the Revelation of the cross of Calvary...the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Opening their hearts and eyes to spiritual realities.

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:44 (KJV)

Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
John 6:65 (KJV)

Why do I share such a thing?? Because it is good for God's people to know the foundations and ways of God. It should bring rest and peace to individuals...knowing that it is not in our hands, nor is it our responsibility to make people see the things of God.

It is not in our hands to convince and make people accept Christ. It is not necessarily a failure of ours if people continue to refuse Christ. Nor is it even any cause of frustration if carnally-minded Christians cannot understand the deeper things of God.

Everything in God's Kingdom is based upon Revelation from the Spirit of God to individuals of His choosing and calling. This is Faith. Faith is a "substance" and an eternal "evidence". It is Revelation from God to us...directly and personally.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Heb 11:1 (KJV)

Faith isn't a "hope so" thing, or a "take a chance on what I'm pretty sure is right". But it is an "inner knowing", imparted by the Spirit...the "unction" of the Spirit.

But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 1 John 2:20 (KJV)

We can actually KNOW all things. God would have us KNOW what we know. Not just THINK that we know, but KNOW that we know. We can know for sure that the "light that is in us" is truly the genuine Light and Truth of God.

Jesus said, The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Matt 6:22-23 (KJV)

In other words, be sure that what you think is right is not actually wrong. What people are "convinced of to be right" can actually be wrong; and Jesus is saying that THAT is the greatest of darkness.

This is the true foundation of God which we need to be building upon, and the basis upon which we are diligently seeking God. This is the personal relationship and the "secret place" that is available to the true called-out and chosen son or daughter of God.

Settle for nothing less, saints of God. Press in to this one-on-one relationship and communion with God. Let not the futilities, fashions, ambitions and intellectual schemes of man deter you from this Eternal and unshakable Foundation of God.

Everything that CAN be shaken WILL be shaken, BUT...we are "receiving a Kingdom which cannot be shaken..."

Heb 12:25-29 (KJV)
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.[/

 

[Drew]

Matt 16:13-18 (KJV)
Let it be understood clearly that "flesh and blood", the intellectual techniques, the educational studies and strategies of man can NEVER tap into the spiritual realm of God and the realities of His Kingdom. They are sealed and reserved for His predestinated sons and daughters.

This is essentially a dressed up way of saying "Clear, rational, logical scriptural arguments are not important - what matters is 'special knowledge' that only an elect possess". This is the ultimate "get out of jail free" card for the Calvinist. It is effectively a claim that allows him to dismiss well-crafted, sound scriptural arguments that speak against the position that he holds - he can simply dismiss powerful and convincing arguments by suggesting that they spring from a "non-predestined" person.

The writer here is also implying that "intellectual" techniques are "anti-Spiritual". This is an exceedingly convenient position for him to take - again, it gets him off the hook in respect to engaging well constructed arguments whose conclusion is not to his liking.

There simply is no "spirit vs intellectual" dichotomy - this is a clever invention of those who arguments lack the intellectual rigour to actually hang together. Paul was a deeply intellectual person whose writings reveal a keen, penetrating intellect. Romans is a brilliant piece of symphonic writing of great sophisitcation.

The "intellect" of man is part of what is redeemed and transformed. It is not a bad thing, if properly used.

 

[Drew]

Matt 16:13-18 (KJV)
The Revelation of who Jesus Christ is...is reserved for those to whom God chooses to show mercy. "Not of him that wills, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy." Romans 9:16

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
Romans 9:11 (KJV)

This is a misreading of the relevant texts from Romans.

A very critical exegetical principle is at stake here - whether we take Paul at his word or over-rule him. And 3rdday is over-ruling Paul here.

In case of Romans 9:11, the "election" or choice that is at issue is God's choice to have the Edomites (the descendents of Esau) "serve" the Israelites (the descendents of Jacob). Paul says so directly:

Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or badâ€â€in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who callsâ€â€she was told, "The older will serve the younger."

And he affirms this by his deliberate quotation from Genesis 25:

The LORD said to her,
"Two nations are in your womb,
and two peoples from within you will be separated;
one people will be stronger than the other,
and the older will serve the younger

Romans 9:16 has nothing whatsoever to do with God disclosing his truths to a select "elect". It is about God's decision to use Pharaoh (and by extension, the nation of Egypt) to resist the exodus, and thereby give God the opportunity to demonstrate His power to deliver the Jews. This is not my "opinion". Paul is quoting from Exodus 9 here:

But I have raised you up [a] for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. 17 You still set yourself against my people and will not let them go.

So there you have it. Hard scriptural evidence that, in both cases as to what Paul is actually talking about.

And it has nothing at all to do with this notion that God discloses truth to only an elect.

 

[3rddayuprising]

Matthew 13:11,16
"He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom. but to them it is not given."

Verse 16 "But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear."

The predestinated are a priviledged and blessed group of individuals indeed! Thank you, Lord.

Open the eyes, Lord, of those who unable to "Amen" such glorious Truth...as the Foundation of Your Kingdom being Revelation to the individual. What misery it must be, to be in such a condition.

 

[Drew]

The predestinated are a priviledged and blessed group of individuals indeed! Thank you, Lord.

Open the eyes, Lord, of those who unable to "Amen" such glorious Truth...as the Foundation of Your Kingdom being Revelation to the individual. What misery it must be, to be in such a condition.

It is indeed a "misery" - there is a lot of thinking, reasoning, exegesis, study, analysis, learning of history, learning of cultures, etc.

How much nicer it must be to be relieved of those responsibilities and have truth beamed into your head, unmediated by faculties of the mind. And it sure would be nice to be able to simply dismiss other people's arguments as tainted by their exclusion from this elect, especially of course, if those arguments are informed, rational, and scripturally grounded. Why should one want to worry oneself with such things?

Yes, it is indeed a misery....

And, of course, it must also be nice to get to over-rule Paul as you do in respect to Romans 9. I suppose Paul is not a member of that elect?

 

[3rddayuprising]

The predestinated are a priviledged and blessed group of individuals indeed! Thank you, Lord.

Open the eyes, Lord, of those who unable to "Amen" such glorious Truth...as the Foundation of Your Kingdom being Revelation to the individual. What misery it must be, to be in such a condition.

It is indeed a "misery" - there is a lot of thinking, reasoning, exegesis, study, analysis, learning of history, learning of cultures, etc.

How much nicer it must be to be relieved of those responsibilities and have truth beamed into your head, unmediated by faculties of the mind. And it sure would be nice to be able to simply dismiss other people's arguments as tainted by their exclusion from this elect, especially of course, if those arguments are informed, rational, and scripturally grounded. Why should one want to worry oneself with such things?

Yes, it is indeed a misery....

And, of course, it must also be nice to get to over-rule Paul as you do in respect to Romans 9. I suppose Paul is not a member of that elect?

Like one preacher said to a very well educated, upper class citizen one time as he was seeking this preacher for answers concerning Christianity, "First of all, sir, reach up and grab your head. Picture that you are taking all your previous learning, scholarships and degrees....and pulling it all from your brain. Now go over to my waste-basket and through it all in there! Then come and sit down and we'll ask God to reveal Truth to you by His Spirit."

Yes, indeed, it is wonderful...to ignore and avoid the "unlearned questions" and the spirits of unbelief, and hold firm to that which is Right, True and Good. Yes, IMMUNE from intellectual and carnally-minded challenges.

 

[Drew]

The fact of the matter is that, in a number of threads, a number of arguments supporting pre-destination have been systematically shown to be incorrect. This has been done scripturally and in a manner that honours the principles of logic and fair argument.

Now, presented with such arguments, the proponent of pre-destination has two choices:

1. Engage them and show that they are wrong.

2. Avoid them and cast doubt on the very ability of the human mind to make sense of the Scriptures.

You and others have chosen path number 2. I have asked you a question in another thread which, if you actually answer it, will further reveal the weakness of your position. So, you ignore it. And you really have no choice, of course, if you insist on maintaining the appearance that your position has any merit.

There are some very important issues on the table here. Is the church going to accept that some have the right to simply ignore clear, scripturally-grounded challenges to their position, retreating to the safety of a position that basically asserts: "I am a member of the elect and have 'special knowledge' of the truth. Therefore I need answer questions. I need not provide a coherent and scripturally-grounded defence of my position."

How long will the church accept this in the interests of not wanting to rock the boat?

 

[Arj]

From Gods point of view we are predestined because God knows the past present and future.

 

[St Francis]

From Gods point of view we are predestined because God knows the past present and future.

There is a big difference between God knowing which choices you will make, and God predetermining which choices you will make

 

[3rddayuprising]

From Gods point of view we are predestined because God knows the past present and future.

There is a big difference between God knowing which choices you will make, and God predetermining which choices you will make

Reminds me of a certain show from the Rifleman series. Some cattle rustlers stole one of Luke McCain's calves from his ranch. Well, to avoid a conflict and to prove that these rustlers had indeed taken one of McCain's cow's calves...without just going on the rustler's property and taking it, McCain brought the cow (the calve's mother) to the rustler's ranch. What happened was that among the many calves a certain calve came out and began to follow the mother cow. Proving that this was indeed one of McCain's cattle.

You see, it was INHERANT within the calve to know it's mother. Even so is it with God's predestinated children, even on a much higher level. It is inherant in them to KNOW God's voice and leading, and the drawing of His Spirit...when He comes seeking and saving His own.

That predestinated "seed of God" in them...responds to God's call. "Deep calleth unto deep".

It's like the farmer who had an eagle egg somehow put in with the chickens. By and by the eagle hatched out. As time went by the eagle realized he was different. He didn't like what the chickens ate, and didn't play cards like all the denominational chickens...oops! sorry. He didn't peck around in the dirty ole barn yard for scraps.

One day the mother eagle flew over-head and screached out...knowing one of her brood were missing. Well, at that wonderful sound the baby eagle looked up "from whence he came" and lifted off to join those of his own kind. Praise God.

Chickens can cackle their way into Christians circles, but God has "eagles" He is restoring to His true fold. They alone are predestinated, called and chosen of God.

 

[Drew]

Why do I share such a thing?? Because it is good for God's people to know the foundations and ways of God. It should bring rest and peace to individuals...knowing that it is not in our hands, nor is it our responsibility to make people see the things of God.

It is not in our hands to convince and make people accept Christ. It is not necessarily a failure of ours if people continue to refuse Christ. Nor is it even any cause of frustration if carnally-minded Christians cannot understand the deeper things of God.

Everything in God's Kingdom is based upon Revelation from the Spirit of God to individuals of His choosing and calling. This is Faith. Faith is a "substance" and an eternal "evidence". It is Revelation from God to us...directly and personally.

I put forward the following for the reader's consideration. When the Calvinist is confronted with clear, rational, Scripturally-grounded counter-arguments to his position, he can always play the "special knowledge" card to conveniently evade responsibility for engaging such counter-arguments. He can simply lay claim to be a member of a priveleged elect who gets divine revelation directly from God and therefore need not worry about actually testing his views against the scriptures.

And we have seen this strategy used repeatedly in recent threads. 3rdday and beloved57 have repeatedly ignored direct questions and challenges to their positions. And there is good reason for this.

Their positions cannot stand up to scripture. So, quite naturally, if they wish to preserve the appearance of holding correct doctrine, they simply quit the game, and continue to lecture us from the sidelines as to how they are members of a blessed brotherhood who are apparently above the authority of the Scriptures.

 

[St Francis]

....Chickens can cackle their way into Christians circles, but God has "eagles" He is restoring to His true fold. They alone are predestinated, called and chosen of God.

There's some cackling going on in this thread alright

 

[Arj]

You mean im not a chicken after all?

 

[3rddayuprising]

You mean im not a chicken after all?

Look into the "mirror of God's Word"...you tell us.

 

[St Francis]

You mean im not a chicken after all?

Look into the "mirror of God's Word"...you tell us.

"Mirror" is not a good analogy for God's word. Predestination, as you have put it forth, is not Biblical.

 

[Gabe]

Why do I share such a thing?? Because it is good for God's people to know the foundations and ways of God. It should bring rest and peace to individuals...knowing that it is not in our hands, nor is it our responsibility to make people see the things of God.

It is not in our hands to convince and make people accept Christ. It is not necessarily a failure of ours if people continue to refuse Christ. Nor is it even any cause of frustration if carnally-minded Christians cannot understand the deeper things of God.

Everything in God's Kingdom is based upon Revelation from the Spirit of God to individuals of His choosing and calling. This is Faith. Faith is a "substance" and an eternal "evidence". It is Revelation from God to us...directly and personally.

I put forward the following for the reader's consideration. When the Calvinist is confronted with clear, rational, Scripturally-grounded counter-arguments to his position, he can always play the "special knowledge" card to conveniently evade responsibility for engaging such counter-arguments. He can simply lay claim to be a member of a priveleged elect who gets divine revelation directly from God and therefore need not worry about actually testing his views against the scriptures.

And we have seen this strategy used repeatedly in recent threads. 3rdday and beloved57 have repeatedly ignored direct questions and challenges to their positions. And there is good reason for this.

Their positions cannot stand up to scripture. So, quite naturally, if they wish to preserve the appearance of holding correct doctrine, they simply quit the game, and continue to lecture us from the sidelines as to how they are members of a blessed brotherhood who are apparently above the authority of the Scriptures.

The fact of the matter is that, in a number of threads, a number of arguments supporting pre-destination have been systematically shown to be incorrect. This has been done scripturally and in a manner that honours the principles of logic and fair argument.

Now, presented with such arguments, the proponent of pre-destination has two choices:

1. Engage them and show that they are wrong.

2. Avoid them and cast doubt on the very ability of the human mind to make sense of the Scriptures.

You and others have chosen path number 2. I have asked you a question in another thread which, if you actually answer it, will further reveal the weakness of your position. So, you ignore it. And you really have no choice, of course, if you insist on maintaining the appearance that your position has any merit.

There are some very important issues on the table here. Is the church going to accept that some have the right to simply ignore clear, scripturally-grounded challenges to their position, retreating to the safety of a position that basically asserts: "I am a member of the elect and have 'special knowledge' of the truth. Therefore I need answer questions. I need not provide a coherent and scripturally-grounded defence of my position."

How long will the church accept this in the interests of not wanting to rock the boat?

Drew, you forget to mention the personal attacks that Beloved57 often resorts to when confronted with scripture and arguments which do not agree with his/her point of view.

 

[Free]

Getting back on topic...


Matt 22:37, And he said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

3rddayuprising,

What you think it means to love God with "all your mind"?

 

[St Francis]

Getting back on topic...


Matt 22:37, And he said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

3rddayuprising,

What you think it means to love God with "all your mind"?

I'll tell you what I think. Its classic Hebrew hyperbole. It merely means to make God and God's will the most important things in your life