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Bible Study The Foundation.

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(2 Cor 11:3), but I fear, lest by any means your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity (Singleness) that is in Christ. - As Eve should have gone to her head, which was Adam, and she listened to the serpent instead, most Christians go to a church denomination as their head instead of Christ and his word. When asked of what faith they are, most will respond with Baptist, Catholic, Church of Christ, Fundamental, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal or whatever, but do you see how crafty Satan is? Hopefully every one reading this is, or very soon will be of the faith of Jesus Christ, who is THE HEAD OF US THE CHURCH (Col 1:18).
This is an excerpt of Christian Sufferings at the following URL Link.
http://www.christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/christian-sufferings.52898/
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Eugene said:
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(2 Cor 11:3), but I fear, lest by any means your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity (Singleness) that is in Christ. - As Eve should have gone to her head, which was Adam, and she listened to the serpent instead, most Christians go to a church denomination as their head instead of Christ and his word. When asked of what faith they are, most will respond with Baptist, Catholic, Church of Christ, Fundamental, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal or whatever, but do you see how crafty Satan is? Hopefully every one reading this is, or very soon will be of the faith of Jesus Christ, who is THE HEAD OF US THE CHURCH (Col 1:18).
This is an excerpt of Christian Sufferings at the following URL Link.
http://www.christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/christian-sufferings.52898/
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Click to expand...
Amen.
 
Eugene said:
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(2 Cor 11:3), but I fear, lest by any means your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity (Singleness) that is in Christ. - As Eve should have gone to her head, which was Adam, and she listened to the serpent instead, most Christians go to a church denomination as their head instead of Christ and his word. When asked of what faith they are, most will respond with Baptist, Catholic, Church of Christ, Fundamental, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal or whatever, but do you see how crafty Satan is? Hopefully every one reading this is, or very soon will be of the faith of Jesus Christ, who is THE HEAD OF US THE CHURCH (Col 1:18).
This is an excerpt of Christian Sufferings at the following URL Link.
http://www.christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/christian-sufferings.52898/
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Click to expand...

Amen!
 
Douglas Summers said:
The Foundation! Can all of us agree on one thing? That the Church itself is built upon one foundation, Jesus Christ The Rock? (1 Cor. 3: 10-11) (Matt. 7: 24-25) (Acts 4: 10-12) (Matt. 16: 13-19) (Dan. 2: 42-45) (1 Sam. 2:2)
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Absolutely Douglas!! "On Christ the Rock, I stand."
 
Eugene said:
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(2 Cor 11:3), but I fear, lest by any means your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity (Singleness) that is in Christ. - As Eve should have gone to her head, which was Adam, and she listened to the serpent instead, most Christians go to a church denomination as their head instead of Christ and his word. When asked of what faith they are, most will respond with Baptist, Catholic, Church of Christ, Fundamental, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal or whatever, but do you see how crafty Satan is? Hopefully every one reading this is, or very soon will be of the faith of Jesus Christ, who is THE HEAD OF US THE CHURCH (Col 1:18).
This is an excerpt of Christian Sufferings at the following URL Link.
http://www.christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/christian-sufferings.52898/
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Click to expand...
Eugene, I once taught on this subject. I said, there would be no Catholic's in the Kingdom of God. Of course Baptist did not disagree with that, but then I said neither will there any Baptist, nor CoC or Lutheran, Presbyterian, and I went down a list of denominations. People were a gasped at this. I explained to them that only the body of Christ would inhabit the Kingdom of God with Christ. Even still, many were incensed because they put their denomination as head of the Church. God saved us everyone individually to become ONE new man. It seems that people may have the idea that God saved us denominationally or corporately. That is partially the pastor / teachers fault for allowing pride in the Church body.
 
Eugene and Douglas. I commend you both, in the Name of our Lord Jesus, for announcing TRUTH!! Jesus taught that we should not count our "traditions" as doctrine....Eugene, I read your post and went to the site on suffering that you listed. Very good my old friend. That theme of suffering reminds me of Colossians 1:24 ( I Paul am made a minister) "Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church." (ESV)

That verse is a mystery to my understanding. What do both of you think about this verse, what's it saying?
 
Chopper said:
Colossians 1:24 ( I Paul am made a minister) "Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church." (ESV)
That verse is a mystery to my understanding. What do both of you think about this verse, what's it saying?
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My sweet Brother Chopper, Paul had a goal in the sufferings he experienced for our sakes to build the body of Christ; the Church, but as we read in Rom 8:17 there is a distinct difference in being an heir of God which all in Christ are, and that of becoming a joint heir with Him.

We read in Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer (or endure) for his sake.
And Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ. What could Paul possibly want here when he already has Jesus as his Savior? Joint heir ship, or being counted worthy of winning Jesus as bridegroom?

2 Tim 2:12 If we suffer , we shall also reign with him . . . There is much purpose in our growth in grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus (2 Pet 3:18).
Paul also said this at his coming departure in 2 Ti 4:7-8, I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
2 Tim 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
My thoughts :wave2
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Chopper said:
Eugene and Douglas. I commend you both, in the Name of our Lord Jesus, for announcing TRUTH!! Jesus taught that we should not count our "traditions" as doctrine....Eugene, I read your post and went to the site on suffering that you listed. Very good my old friend. That theme of suffering reminds me of Colossians 1:24 ( I Paul am made a minister) "Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church." (ESV)

That verse is a mystery to my understanding. What do both of you think about this verse, what's it saying?
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Hi Chopper, The Scripture fits into the subject at hand.. It was the same warning in Revelation of the Churches or rather, the result of not heeding Paul's warning of not giving God in Jesus Christ His place in the Church as head of the Church,,, of which Paul preached and suffered for. They took it upon themselves to teach that Christ was just one of many angelic beings. They believed that you could also worship angels and other beings in heaven, not giving Christ the True Godhead. The warnings in Revelation of this practice was rejected by Jesus in the Church at Ephesus: They left their first Love (Jesus) and did the deeds of the Nicoliatan's.. (living a life that they could sin willfully and pray to a being in heaven to be forgiven. (not necessarily Jesus) it could be those that they decided were saints, by good deeds, that were in heaven. They put heavenly beings of saints, angels in an order of importance. with particular ceremonies and rituals in worshiping God. Their Church and their teachings were their own foundation. Not Christ alone. (Col. 1: 9-24; 2: 16-23). And what became the deeds of the Nicoliatan's . Became the Doctrine in the Church of Pergamum ,along with the doctrine of Balaam. union with (the principles of the age) or world.

To understand how this happens, study 2 Kings 17: 24-41)
 
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Eugene said:
most Christians go to a church denomination as their head instead of Christ and his word.
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When I have a problem with my car I take it to an expert; a mechanic who is trained in the field of auto repair.
When I'm sick, I consult an expert, a doctor who is trained in the field of medicine.
I think that is rational and sensible behavior.
Why, then, for issues concerning my eternal life, would it not be sensible behavior to go to an expert who was trained in the field?

The idea that everyone is an expert because he can read his Bible is not logical.
Not everyone can read with the same level of comprehension.
Not everyone can read.
Not everyone has the intellectual training to interpret the meanings of scripture.

Jesus had disciples. The apostles followed suit and taught other disciples. Paul instructed Timothy to entrust what he had heard from Paul to other reliable men who would then teach others. (2 Tim 2:2) He didn't say, "write down what I said and distribute it so others can read it."

But which experts to consult? Ay! There's the rub! :wink

iakov the fool
:boing
 
Eugene said:
My sweet Brother Chopper, Paul had a goal in the sufferings he experienced for our sakes to build the body of Christ; the Church, but as we read in Rom 8:17 there is a distinct difference in being an heir of God which all in Christ are, and that of becoming a joint heir with Him.

We read in Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer (or endure) for his sake.
And Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ. What could Paul possibly want here when he already has Jesus as his Savior? Joint heir ship, or being counted worthy of winning Jesus as bridegroom?

2 Tim 2:12 If we suffer , we shall also reign with him . . . There is much purpose in our growth in grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus (2 Pet 3:18).
Paul also said this at his coming departure in 2 Ti 4:7-8, I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
2 Tim 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
My thoughts :wave2
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Click to expand...
Thanks Buddy. :hug
 
Jim Parker said:
When I have a problem with my car I take it to an expert; a mechanic who is trained in the field of auto repair.
When I'm sick, I consult an expert, a doctor who is trained in the field of medicine.
I think that is rational and sensible behavior.
Why, then, for issues concerning my eternal life, would it not be sensible behavior to go to an expert who was trained in the field?

The idea that everyone is an expert because he can read his Bible is not logical.
Not everyone can read with the same level of comprehension.
Not everyone can read.
Not everyone has the intellectual training to interpret the meanings of scripture.

Jesus had disciples. The apostles followed suit and taught other disciples. Paul instructed Timothy to entrust what he had heard from Paul to other reliable men who would then teach others. (2 Tim 2:2) He didn't say, "write down what I said and distribute it so others can read it."

But which experts to consult? Ay! There's the rub! :wink

iakov the fool
:boing
Click to expand...

Well said, Jim, but not a popular concept in some Christian circles that God has provided gifted teachers in the church to teach the Word (Eph 4:11-12 ESV).

I'm pleased that I have sat under the ministry of, been taught by, and learned from some gifted and trained Bible teachers, seminary professors, etc. However, I consider that Acts 17:11 (ESV) should always be our guiding instruction, 'Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true'.

If Paul had to be checked out by how his teaching compared with Scripture, how much more should that apply to all of us on this forum, pastors and teachers in the local church, and seminary/university teachers of Scripture.

It does seem to be a trend in some quarters to denigrate the specialist in biblical studies. I don't find that happening with carpenters, mechanics, accountants, pathologists and cardiologists in my region.

Oz
 
Jim Parker said:
When I have a problem with my car I take it to an expert; a mechanic who is trained in the field of auto repair.
When I'm sick, I consult an expert, a doctor who is trained in the field of medicine.
I think that is rational and sensible behavior.
Why, then, for issues concerning my eternal life, would it not be sensible behavior to go to an expert who was trained in the field?

The idea that everyone is an expert because he can read his Bible is not logical.
Not everyone can read with the same level of comprehension.
Not everyone can read.
Not everyone has the intellectual training to interpret the meanings of scripture.

Jesus had disciples. The apostles followed suit and taught other disciples. Paul instructed Timothy to entrust what he had heard from Paul to other reliable men who would then teach others. (2 Tim 2:2) He didn't say, "write down what I said and distribute it so others can read it."

But which experts to consult? Ay! There's the rub! :wink

iakov the fool
:boing
Click to expand...
Jim, your argument is the same argument that the Sadducee and Pharisees had about Christ and His Apostles. They were not approved by the professional religious leaders of Israel. If one wanted to know about God, they had to go to the religious leaders of Israel (what you would call professionals.)
Being born again is not a profession like a doctor of medicine or a mechanic. People who say they want a profession as a preacher or pastor, is not from God, for you do not join the body of Christ, you are called. And any gifts you have in the ministry is from God the Holy Spirit. It is not of your own choosing.
In the born again believer, the Bible is not reading material, but food for the Spirit that one may grow and be nourished by the word of God. The religious leaders of Israel were appalled that The Christ and Apostles were teaching without professional training (Jon. 7: 14-16) Even the religious leaders of Israel could not agree on doctrine. (Luke 20: 27-38) (Acts 23: 6-11) The Bible is a SPIRITUAL BOOK for BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS. Not for the curious or idle. Here is the rub as you say. One who says they are a Christian, and can not understand from the Scriptures what is right doctrine or wrong. Here is what happens to the born again Christian that is seeking the TRUTH. (Jon. 16: 12-15) (1 Jon. 2: 24-29)
Jim, there are many more Scriptures, but you have to seek the Truth yourself, then you will find. Godly men can give you Scripture or the Gospel, but you through the Spirit have to see if it is true, by the Spirit and the word. One will not contradict the other. If there is a conscience of doubt, then seek it out in Scripture. (1 Thess. 2: 11-13). You have to study the Scriptures Jim
 
I happen to be fortunate to sit under a Pastor who started the "Grace Free Church" a wonderful community church in Spofford, NH. He started this church 35 years ago and has to have three morning worship services on each Sunday because of the crowds. Most of the people who attend are plain old country folk who love to hear the Word of God taught verse by verse from each book of the Bible. The people are mostly young married couples with children to middle age. Only a few old timers like me.

Pastor Lew Miller preaches/teaches the whole council of God which is rare these days. I left a church in my home town that I've attended for 13 years because to much of the world's influence had snuck in. Mostly, in the name of church growth and finances. I liked the Pastor at first and his preaching. He is a "series" teacher and the danger in that, IMO, is the subject matter tends not to convict the people of serious sins that plague our some of our so called "contemporary" churches. Please note that I said "some" not all, thank God.
 
Chopper said:
I happen to be fortunate to sit under a Pastor who started the "Grace Free Church" a wonderful community church in Spofford, NH. He started this church 35 years ago and has to have three morning worship services on each Sunday because of the crowds. Most of the people who attend are plain old country folk who love to hear the Word of God taught verse by verse from each book of the Bible. The people are mostly young married couples with children to middle age. Only a few old timers like me.

Pastor Lew Miller preaches/teaches the whole council of God which is rare these days. I left a church in my home town that I've attended for 13 years because to much of the world's influence had snuck in. Mostly, in the name of church growth and finances. I liked the Pastor at first and his preaching. He is a "series" teacher and the danger in that, IMO, is the subject matter tends not to convict the people of serious sins that plague our some of our so called "contemporary" churches. Please note that I said "some" not all, thank God.
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Good for you chopper. You hit the problem with series teachers right on the target. One thing about pastor/teachers, God never let me get settled into a teaching or pastors sermon that did not bring glory to God in Jesus Christ. For unless you are born again, you will say Amen to any hireling, not knowing the difference between the pride of the flesh or the Joy of the Spirit. This is a hard understanding for pew warmers, that are not lead by the Spirit, but are lead by the flesh. I too had Godly teachers at Moody Bible Institute. But I never took just their word, but searched the Scriptures, Then God gave the increase.

After me and my family were treated unscripturally and by a fleshly lead pastor, I took my children and wife out and searched for another place to worship. At that time in my life I was filled with the Spirit but not mature in the doctrine and purpose of God in my life. One day, two LDS young girls knocked on my door. I thought maybe this was an answer to prayer, for I was seeking a good church to worship at. They came a couple a days a week and me and my wife studied the Scriptures together with them. After several weeks we were asked to join their church. It went like this: A gaggle of women came to the apartment to officiate us in as members. (I do not know why there were never any men?) They started out talking about their Church and what they believed, near the end of the meeting, one of the women said, "all that Jesus was, was just a good man,". Instantly starting at my feet, a warm surge of energy flowed through my body, and I stood up and blurted out, "I don't believe a thing you said!", for up to that point, I was ready to join. They were astonished, and so was I. It was not me, it was Christ in me. They all left saying that Satan was in me. I asked my wife, What happened? She said, I don't know, but when she said that Jesus was just a good man, I looked at you and I could see and instant change in your continuance. The Spirit of the Lord has worked in me in many other trials. But it was the Spirit that lead me through trials and errors. But you know Chopper, as much as the Spirit has guided me and answered prayers, I still am not always sure if He will answer the next prayer. (the interference of the flesh). But I get stronger and have more assurance every time I ask. And I do not ask for just myself, most of my request of the Lord are corporate. (covers more than just me and mine).
 
Douglas Summers said:
Jim, your argument is the same argument that the Sadducee and Pharisees had about Christ and His Apostles
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No. It is not.

The Sadducees and Pharisees did not have the complete revelation of God as the Church has been given. After Jesus' resurrection, many Sadducees and Pharisees became believers.(Acts 6:7)

Are YOU an expert in Hebrew and Greek? Are you an expert theologian? Is everyone an expert by reason of possession of a copy of the scriptures in a language he can read and the guidance of the Holy Spirit?

If so, why has God placed preachers and teachers in the Church? (Eph 4:11) IF we're all experts then we don't need to be taught.

If so, why does James warn the believers that not many should become teachers? (Jas 3:1) IF we're all experts, where is the danger of misleading believers.

If so, why does Paul instruct Timothy to pass on what he heard from Paul to reliable men who are able to teach others. (2 Tim 2:2) Doesn't every believing man, woman, and child have all they need in the KJV Bible they got at Walmart and the leading of the Holy Spirit?

Have you never once encountered a true believer who had even one absolutely stupid idea about what the Bible says?

The reason that God placed teachers in His Church is specifically because it is very easy for an untrained person to make serious errors.

From where do the large followers of religions like Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses arise? They all study their Bibles but come up with different answers.

So I completely reject the notion that Everyman is an instant Bible expert because he believes and is led by the Holy spirit into all truth. That is objectively demonstrable to be a false assumption by the fact of the existence of tens of thousands of denominations all claiming to have the truly true truth because the Holy Spirit revealed it to them in their Sola Scriptura.

So, should I speak in tongues or not?
Do I need to be baptized or not?
Is the tithe for the NT church or just for Jews under the Law?
Can I lose my salvation or not?

Why do these questions even exist if we don't need experts to teach believers?


iakov the fool
:boing
 
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Jim says: "Not everyone has the intellectual training to interpret the meanings of scripture."

Jesus says: John 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Jesus never once said to call on the intellectuals in your community to get the truth

Matters of eternal life were settled in heaven when Jesus said "It Is Finished"
 
Douglas Summers said:
I explained to them that only the body of Christ would inhabit the Kingdom of God with Christ.
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Very good point.

It is unfortunate that segments of that one Body of Christ seem to have torn 1 Cor 12 out of their Sola Scripturas and have made "What's wrong with them dern KAAATHlicks or PentiKOStals or BAAAptists" part of their denominational statements of faith.

Can't we all just get along? (Rodney King)

iakov the fool
:boing
 
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