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The god of Islam or the living God of Christianity

Is the god of Islam the same as the living God?

  • Yes - Muslims and Christians worship the same God

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Neither - explain why you choose this option

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    5
God can do what he wants to. It is his creation. Unfortunately your eyes only see the physical side of things, and are blinded to the spiritual side of things. Repent and believe and follow Jesus, and you will be surprised at the difference in your changed perspective. Until then you will continue to be deceived. There are many praying for you. Good luck.

I'm not sure if you know how trivial and childish you sound. You can't condemn Islam by saying "look at all the killing Allah justified, look how terrible he is" and then when someone points out that your God did the same you say "Well, my God is the REAL God so he can do whatever he wants!"

I mean, you can stick with that arguement if you want to. But then I think you should be able to understand why muslims or any non-christian doesn't buy it.
 
All who do not know the true creator God will worship whatever feeds their physical personages the most wanted individually. If the truth that Allah is god and they are afraid that death will be at their door if they believe in Jesus Christ, then their temporary existance on earth is more important than their eternal existance with God.

If living a life of sin in darkness is more important to an individual in this short 70 years of life than eternity with God, then a short temporary life of finite pleasure will overcome the desire to live in God's light.

God can obliterate the entire creation because he made it. He did not; instead he created a way in which individuals did not have to live in violence and wickedness. It is each of our choices.

Simple. Childish? Your opinion.
 
Solo,

Why is it instead of actual answering questions and giving responses that deal with the topic in question, you constantly resort to doctrinal banter or judgements of people's souls?

...I think some are beginning to suspect that you have nothing else to say. Like i said...these are tactics mastered my children but hardly conductive to adult conversations.
 
AHIMSA said:
....But then I think you should be able to understand why muslims or any non-christian doesn't buy it.
I realise you do not "buy" much AHIMSA. You don't believe the Bible and you don't think homosexuality is a sin. Now you want to equate the God of the Bible with Muhammad's Allah!

I have shown you that Muhammad murdered innocent people in the name of Allah, his god. Today Muslims who follow Muhammad's example do the same. They murder innocent people in the name of Allah, their god.

What you have failed to prove is:
(1) Jesus murdered innocent people in the name of Yahweh
(2) Christians who follow Jesus also murder innocent people in the name of Jesus

The bottom line?
Jesus saves. Muhammad killed.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... s_wars.htm

You try and equate Muhammad's murdering to killing in the Old Testament. You have brought no chapter/verse to support your premise.

:)
 
I assumed that you were thoroughly familliar with God's acts of genocide in the Old Testament, but lets re-examine them again:

"When the Lord has turned them over to you, you MUST DESTROY THEM COMPLETELY. When the Lord has delivered them over to you, make no treaty with them, and SHOW THEM NO MERCY. DO NOT GIVE YOUR DAUGHTERS TO THEIR SONS OR TAKE THEIR DAUGHTERS FOR YOUR SONS. DO NOT INTERMARRY WITH THEM"

God is not only advocating the murder of say, innocent children and women, but also genocide. God does not want their GENES to continue, so the Israelites are not permitted to wed them. God says if they do, they will be the down fall of the Israelittes.

Remember Rwanda? When innocent children were killed and where the Hutu believed it would be foul to intermingle with the Tutsis? The Hutu literally tried to purge the Tutsi from the earth. God is only asking that the Israelittes do the same.

I fail to see how you can condemn Muhammad for killing innocent people in the name of God, but then say that Israel was justified for trying to purge the land of other races in the name of God.

"But these people were Pagans, in rebellion against God" you may say. But remember that Muhammad said the same of many of the people they killed.

The Israelittes killed who they thought did not follow the one true God. Muhammad killed who he believed did not follow the one true God.

Try as you might, you can't construct enough theological bridges to bypass this one.
 
AHIMSA said:
Solo,

Why is it instead of actual answering questions and giving responses that deal with the topic in question, you constantly resort to doctrinal banter or judgements of people's souls?

...I think some are beginning to suspect that you have nothing else to say. Like i said...these are tactics mastered my children but hardly conductive to adult conversations.

Your lack of understanding does not lie in the manner in which I answer your questions, your lack of understanding lies in your inability to hear or see the truths expounded by the Word of God. Your inability to accept the truth of God's Word has you under the bondage of sin and deceptions which you can not free yourself from. If you do not understand the written Word, or the Word of God, then you might want to look inside to see what is blocking your welcoming the truth. Jesus is Lord and he has paid the price for your sins. When you repent and believe in him, you will grow spiritually and come to understand all things. Until then you are lost and on a deadend street.
 
Gary said:
AHIMSA said:
Try as you might, you can't construct enough theological bridges to bypass this one.

I knew you would not READ the link I gave you. Read it...... and then let us discuss.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... s_wars.htm

:)


According to Solo, "God can do what he wants to. It is his creation." Muslims could defend the behaviour of Allah in the same way, and in fact, I have seen them do it.

What do you think of that kind of defence Gary?
 
Solo said:
God can do what he wants to. It is his creation.


Are you sure about that?


If God can "do what he wants", then God can lie to Christians in the Bible, make them think they will go to heaven when really they are all going to burn!!
 
DivineNames said:
Solo said:
God can do what he wants to. It is his creation.


Are you sure about that?


If God can "do what he wants", then God can lie to Christians in the Bible, make them think they will go to heaven when really they are all going to burn!!

God can do what he wants. You can bet your life on it, for that is what it is all about.
It is obvious that you do not know God, if you think that he would lie.
Don't forget taking marshmellows with you.
 
Solo said:
God can do what he wants. You can bet your life on it, for that is what it is all about.
It is obvious that you do not know God, if you think that he would lie.
Don't forget taking marshmellows with you.


Is that another threat? I guess you will never grow out of that... :D

So we know what kind of behaviour a good God would or wouldn't do. We are in a position to judge the 'goodness' of God. You say God wouldn't lie. I say that a morally perfect God wouldn't kill an innocent baby to punish its father.
 
In God at War, Arlandson attempts to simultaneously discredit the violence performed in the name of the God of Islam as grave and unjust atrocities, while upholding the dignity of Christianity by defending similar violence perpetrated by the Christian God in the Old Testament.
He delivers two quotes, one from the Old Testament and one from the Qu’ran, both record God inciting bloodshed. The one from the Qu’ran, he says, is doubly hard to accept as “Christ showed us a better wayâ€Â. Such a bias is hardly conductive to the academic argument he thinks he is proposing. Obviously Muslims do not believe that the means of salvation were changed by the death of Jesus, so it should have no bearing on his argument.
His first point of defense of is that “the historic span of the Bible and Qu’ran must be consideredâ€Â, in which he asserts there is a considerable more percentage of violence in the Qu’ran when one considers it was written in ten years and the Bible in 1400. The Bible, when considering the time span, comes out peaceful while the Qu’ran, more violent. I don’t think it is quite clear as to how this, in any sense, justifies the actions of God in Canaan. The Old Testament gives us the picture of a God who commits genocide, who deliberately attempts to wipe out a race of people. A time span is absolutely irrelevant as to whether or not an act is justified. I suppose he is trying to say that the bible is much more realistic, in that it has times of peace and times of war, but whether the bible comes across as more authentic or not is irrelevant as to whether or not violence in the name of God is justified. And when one considers the supernatural claims of the Bible, the notion of what is “realistic†seems rather moot.
His second point is that the “Canaanites were beyond hope†but the pagan Arabs could have been saved. Firstly, the only evidence that the Canaanites were beyond hope lies in the Bible. While it is acknowledged that the moral practices of the Canaanites were somewhat distorted, this does not preclude any hope of eventually changing. As in the case of Nineveh, the people are described as “inventing ways of doing evil as a pastime’, yet God still sent them a prophet. One must wonder why it is that the people of Canaan were never sent prophets and asked to convert, why God never invited them to join his covenant. When compared to Muhammad, who gave all people he killed the opportunity to convert, the Christian God seems more so malicious. Arlandson also comments that, biblically speaking, God never destroys a place where the righteous can be found. But we are talking about an entire nation of people. This position ignores the reality of human character. Can we say today that there is nation in the world where every single person is evil with no hope of repentance? Why are the Canaanites unique in the thoroughness of their immorality and evil? While it can be asserted that their culture was immoral, it is ridiculous to assert that every single person was beyond hope. In fact, in the case of Jericho, we find that there are in fact righteous people that escape the city. It is not reasonable to say that they are the only ones. Yet some may say “Indeed, Rahab and her household were the only righteous people in Canaan†and that, though divine providence, God spared the righteous people. Yet Muslims could argue that God guided Muhammad and the Muslims to kill only those who were unrighteous, that through a similar act of divine providence, God spared the righteous Arabs. In the end it seems that Muhammad was more merciful than the God of the Old Testament, for he gives all the Arabs the opportunity to convert before killing them. The Canaanites were afforded no such opportunity, they were just killed.
His third point is ludicrous to the point of being humorous. He asserts that God was very specific about who should die, where as Allah was just haphazard about killing people. God, Arlandson holds, only has the nations within Canaan killed. This, more than anything, shows that the authors of the Old Testament were attempting to justify their conquest of the holy land with divine approval. God intends to clear a very particular area of sinners so that he can establish Israel to further his divine plan. Christians argue that to spread Islam by the sword is immoral, but for God to institute his divine plan by the sword would then be equally as wrong. It makes no difference whether God was decisive or meticulous about murdering a nation of people. The holocaust was one of the most thoroughly and well documented genocides in history, yet this gives it no justification. Again, Arlandson is trying to appeal to a sense of realism. He is supporting the faulty premise that if the Bible portrays a more realistic God than the Qu’ran, than the Bible must be true. This, however, does not answer as to how these murders can be justified. Secondly, the Old Testament was written hundreds of years after the events they record, where as the Qu’ran was formed as these events occurred. Obviously one would seem haphazard, as the biblical authors were not reporting events as they saw them happen, but hundred of years later.
In his fourth point, he attacks Muhammad for dehumanizing the Jews so he can justify their killing by calling them apes and pigs. Obviously this ignores Yahweh’s own propaganda campaign, deeming the Canaanites so vile they were beyond redemption and worthy of slaughter.
His argument fails to confront the issue of children, who could not possibly be guilty and worthy of death. Surely, if God could have spared a prostitute, he could have spared the children. He could have commanded the Israelites to take the children they found and have every family adopt one of them, at least this would have considerably reduced the death toll. Or God could have taken all the children up to heaven, sparing them the terrifying slaughter.
Lastly, he fails to confront other situations in the Old Testament. Particularly the destruction that is committed in Egypt. Here God deliberately hardens Pharaoh’s heart so they he will refuse to let the Israelites go, and then massacres the first born of every Egyptian in order to get Pharaoh to change his mind. Surely, God could have never hardened his heart, and surely the deaths of the first born of EVERY Egyptian were not necessary.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... s_wars.htm
 
Both Allah and Yahweh very clearly have some serious moral flaws. Muslims can be blind to this if they want. Christians can be blind to this if they want. You will never be able to explain away all the morally dubious material in the Quran and Bible.
 
God can do what he wants to. It is his creation. Unfortunately your eyes only see the physical side of things, and are blinded to the spiritual side of things. Repent and believe and follow Jesus, and you will be surprised at the difference in your changed perspective. Until then you will continue to be deceived. There are many praying for you. Good luck.

This may be the most awesomest statement of the week....

So if a MUSLIM beheads a CHRISTIAN its evil....

But if a CHRISTIAN beheads a MUSLIM its good....



Talk about objective Truth?

You preaching is no different than Osama as he preaches the same message to a different crowd....

How sad... :crying:
 
This may be the most awesomest statement of the week....

So if a MUSLIM beheads a CHRISTIAN its evil....

But if a CHRISTIAN beheads a MUSLIM its good....


lol. Wel put Soma-Sight. I think thats exactly what we're getting at here, right to the root of what's being said. I think many of the very literal Christians here are indeed espousing that degree of hypocrisy, only they try and disguise and or legitimize it under various guises.
 
It would seem that all of your responses are based on your own definitions and understandings of love, justice, morality, the nature of sin, the purpose of community and God's calling out a people for himself.

But Solo is right. God created everyting which means everything is his to do with as he pleases. He can punish or show mercy to any extent which he wishes. He can use whatever processes he wants to make everything work towards the ends he has intended.
 
Free said:
But Solo is right. God created everyting which means everything is his to do with as he pleases. He can punish or show mercy to any extent which he wishes. He can use whatever processes he wants to make everything work towards the ends he has intended.


As I have told you before, this is the second horn of the Euthyphro dilemma. It makes it meaningless to say that God is "good".

Secondly, a "morally perfect" God is free to lie to Christians in the Bible. He can deceive them, make them believe they will go to heaven, when actually they will all go to hell. On your theory, this behaviour would all be perfectly "good".
 
Free said:
It would seem that all of your responses are based on your own definitions and understandings of love, justice, morality, the nature of sin, the purpose of community and God's calling out a people for himself.


Perhaps we have a “natural†knowledge of what is right and wrong, where this knowledge comes from God? If so, we take this knowledge with us when we judge the claims of supposed scripture.
 
But Solo is right. God created everyting which means everything is his to do with as he pleases. He can punish or show mercy to any extent which he wishes. He can use whatever processes he wants to make everything work towards the ends he has intended.

1. This is an OBVIOUS cop out. What kind of legitimate discussion can we have if God's actions define what morality is.

2. If you stick to this argument, then you I think you have to stop harassing Muslims for using the same argument when they defend the violence of early Islam....then again, how can anyone be sure that God isnt using the terrorisst to fulfill his will again today? I mean, there are certain Christians who say 9/11 was God punishing America...

It would seem that all of your responses are based on your own definitions and understandings of love, justice, morality, the nature of sin, the purpose of community and God's calling out a people for himself.

Really? My OWN definitions of morality? If I were you I would certainly be questioning the morality of Christianity then. What kind of morality includes the slaughtering of innocent children and babies by the masses? What kind of morality includes genocide? If MY definition of morality excludes the justification of the blatant murder of the innocent, then I would think it superior to that of Yahweh's.

No, I think you HAVE to believe this. You don't really have a choice. Because to really, and to HONESTLY look at these passages...to truly consider them is to question the very certainties of your faith that make it so comfortable. A faith that has no room for ambiguity. That demands you see the world in black and white, saved and damned, that satisfies the basic pyshcological need for security.
 
AHIMSA said:
2. If you stick to this argument, then you I think you have to stop harassing Muslims for using the same argument when they defend the violence of early Islam....


Yeah, criticism of any religion on moral grounds becomes impossible. If a religion endorses rape, murder, war against the unbelievers, human sacrifice etc. etc., then the defence can always be- "God can do what he likes, demand what he wants from us, can give whatever rules he wants...".
 
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