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The Great Whore of Revelation

LastSeven said:
I'm not twisting any logic, and please don't suggest that I haven't read the scriptures. You obviously see things a different way, but if you want to convince me or anyone else you'll have to do so with sound arguments not antagonistic comments.
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Uh, no. I prefer reasoning meaning logic that makes sense. That is the 'reason' for exchange of thoughts. You are welcome to follow other reasonings that don't.

I've shown you that in Ezekiel 16 the Lord himself calls Jerusalem a whore,
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Again, no. God speaks to people. Not a conglomeration of buildings or a physical location.

and not just once but many times and clearly explains why she is called a whore. That's a pretty clear argument for my case.
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Your case has no ears. Sorry.
You have not made any similarly clear arguments for your case.
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The reasonings were there in print in the post made. You are welcome to address the obvious, if found.

s
 
Stormcrow said:
That's because there is no rational exegetical support for any other position than the one that sees apostate first century Jerusalem as the harlot of Revelation.

People refuse to accept this, however, because it has far-reaching implications regarding the rest of their eschatology.
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I've stated this fact more than a few times for preterists.

The understanding requires eradication of the Word of God, relegating same to isolated segments of populace and past history.

Gods Words are not meant to be tossed away as preterism requires.

s
 
Revelation 18

1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Underlined in Red:

Babylong the great IS:

The habitation of devils

and

every foul spirit.

Was every foul spirit only in Jerusalem in 70ad?

lol

Were the people of Jerusalem then or now the ONLY habitation of devils?

again, lol

We are advised the exact location of 'where the whore sits.'

That location is stated thusly:

"where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

Were 'all' people, 'all' multitudes, 'all' nations and 'all' tongues only in Jerusalem in 70ad or even presently?

uh, that would be a no. IN fact to say that makes zero sense. Zero. The logic of that direction is insulting to reason.

s
 
Ezekiel 16 condemns the Jerusalem of the 6-7th century BC, which was judged by God via Babylon.

Revelation condemns the apostate Jerusalem of the 1st century AD, and borrows the language of the old testament to show that its occupants were just as guilty as their forefathers and would thus face the same fate, but this time via Rome.

If you are not familiar with the history of God's people given in the old testament then you will never understand Revelation.
 
LastSeven said:
A city is it's people. So when God speaks to "Jerusalem" he is speaking to the people of Jerusalem. I thought that was pretty obvious.
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Using that methodology one may as well say ALL of Gods Words were only for Israel/it's people.

We certainly know that is not the case.

So the methodology spirals downward from there to take only the Words one likes and ignore the balance.

Jesus taught this about Gods Words to 'ALL MAN'

Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Not just the personally selective and completetly subjective applications of same.

You are welcome to discount any given Word of God as you please or to subjectively wipe them away. I don't find that a legitimate directive of understandings.

enjoy!

s
 
Sinthesis said:
Ezekiel 16 condemns the Jerusalem of the 6-7th century BC, which was judged by God via Babylon.

Revelation condemns the apostate Jerusalem of the 1st century AD, and borrows the language of the old testament to show that its occupants were just as guilty as their forefathers and would thus face the same fate, but this time via Rome.

If you are not familiar with the history of God's people given in the old testament then you will never understand Revelation.
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God 'chose' to speak through the people of Israel to 'all' people.

God judged Israel's people for the SIN indwelling them.

Gentiles and 'all other people' have the same problem and will be judged accordingly.

This is what God speaks to in Revelation and by 'all' Words that He has spoken.

We are also advised to flee the destruction that God brings to all sinners, the culmination of which is written in Revelation.

There are, in essence, only TWO forces at work in the entire text, and in reality.

One is The Spirit of God. The other are the spirits of the anti-Christ which same occupy MAN in his SIN.

Readers are welcome to look on the outside of the cup. They won't see or receive a thing regarding understandings.

enjoy!

s
 
smaller said:
Using that methodology one may as well say ALL of Gods Words were only for Israel/it's people.
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er... no, only when God is speaking to Israel.

smaller said:
You are welcome to discount any given Word of God as you please or to subjectively wipe them away. I don't find that a legitimate directive of understandings.
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Please clarify your accusation. Which words of God do you think I am ignoring?
 
LastSeven said:
er... no, only when God is speaking to Israel.
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According to Jesus you would be wrong. Gods Words are for 'man.' You are again welcome to eliminate His Statements for any reason you please.
Please clarify your accusation. Which words of God do you think I am ignoring?
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Apparently none that you can perceive.

s
 
smaller, are you saying that every word of God is directed at every single one of us? Are you saying that anytime God speaks he is speaking to you and I directly?
 
TRUTH over TRADITION said:
I saw that there was a thread on this very topic that has been closed. i read through most of it which seemed to claim in a nutshell that Jerusalem (modern and age old zionism) is the Great Whore Mystery Babylon.

This topic interests me and I partly agree, BUT I feel that the Bible tells us that ANCIENT Jerusalem as opposed to modern Zionism fits the description. In the OT, passages like Jeremiah 3,13 and Ezekiel 16,23 describe Jerusalem as a whoring woman.

Many feel that the RCC as well as "apostate christianity" as a whole fits very well with the descriptions in Revelation, but I believe that Jerusalem circa 1st century fits even better. The language of the OT passages that discuss apostate Judaism uses a lot of the same language as Rev. This is important to point out because the readers who John sent the letter to who were most likely Jews who would have naturally harkened back to the writings of the prophets to help "decode" Revelation.
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When Paul wrote revelations Rome was called the city of the seven hills, and upon each hill sat a temple named for a Pagan god.
 
LastSeven said:
smaller, are you saying that every word of God is directed at every single one of us? Are you saying that anytime God speaks he is speaking to you and I directly?
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Every Word of God is meant for the life of man.

Doesn't mean that Word was spoken 'to' any of us in particular.

The scripture I cited was from Jesus was to Satan, but it is surely meant for 'our' understanding the applicability of every Word of God for MAN and how they are to be understood. I'm sure you missed that entirely and completely but whatever.

s
 
I wish you guys would quit bumping this thread - every time I hit "New Posts" I see:

"The great WHORE of Revelation" in the list. :bigfrown
 
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