[_ Old Earth _] The heart of the matter

[Solo]

Solo, I'm afraid your pride is not going to let you accept His creation as it is.

Fortunately, it's not a salvation issue. But if you'd let go, and let Him decide, you'd have a closer relationship with Him.

It's worth a try, isn't it?

How would you know?

 

[Barbarian]

Experience. As I learned more about His creation, and accepted it, my relationship with Him deepened and became more close.

Once you're willing to let Him be in charge, life gets better. He doesn't promise you won't have any troubles, but He does promise you will be happy.

 

[Solo]

Experience. As I learned more about His creation, and accepted it, my relationship with Him deepened and became more close.

Once you're willing to let Him be in charge, life gets better. He doesn't promise you won't have any troubles, but He does promise you will be happy.

Well the one thing that we agree on is that God created the heavens and the earth. What we disagree on is whether God's word can be taken as literal. I take the creation in Genesis as literal and that God created each animal, plant, and man without the need for evolution from a one celled organism that miraculously appeared in a primevil soup. I also beleive the literal word of God in that the creation only took almighty God seven literal days.

My relationship with God is one where I know him to be true and what he tells me is true. He always gives me the understanding when things are false, and he has shown me that evolution is a lie from the devil, and evolution is one of the doctrines of the humanists' religion.

Once you give up the lies of the devil and begin living according to the Word of God you can replace the conditional human emotion of happiness with the God given gift of joy. It is a much greater life with joy in all circumstances than it is with happiness when things go the way of the flesh.

 

[Barbarian]

Well the one thing that we agree on is that God created the heavens and the earth. What we disagree on is whether God's word can be taken as literal.

Most Christians accept that much of Genesis is not literal. St. Augustine tried for a very long time to find a way to understand it as literal, and finally gave up.

I take the creation in Genesis as literal and that God created each animal, plant, and man without the need for evolution from a one celled organism that miraculously appeared in a primevil soup.

You do know that is not part of evolutionary theory, don't you?

I also beleive the literal word of God in that the creation only took almighty God seven literal days.

Six. It says six days, but of course God did not say that they were literal days. Most Christians see them as not literal.

My relationship with God is one where I know him to be true and what he tells me is true.

So why not go all the way and accept what He says in Genesis?

He always gives me the understanding when things are false, and he has shown me that evolution is a lie from the devil, and evolution is one of the doctrines of the humanists' religion.

Someone's lied to you, if that's what you think. It wasn't God who whispered that bit of slander in your ear.

When you let God do it His way, you will not feel the need to bear false witness against other Christians.

And you will be happier.

 

[Solo]

Well the one thing that we agree on is that God created the heavens and the earth. What we disagree on is whether God's word can be taken as literal.

Most Christians accept that much of Genesis is not literal. St. Augustine tried for a very long time to find a way to understand it as literal, and finally gave up.

[quote:9646b]I take the creation in Genesis as literal and that God created each animal, plant, and man without the need for evolution from a one celled organism that miraculously appeared in a primevil soup.

You do know that is not part of evolutionary theory, don't you?

I also beleive the literal word of God in that the creation only took almighty God seven literal days.

Six. It says six days, but of course God did not say that they were literal days. Most Christians see them as not literal.

My relationship with God is one where I know him to be true and what he tells me is true.

So why not go all the way and accept what He says in Genesis?

He always gives me the understanding when things are false, and he has shown me that evolution is a lie from the devil, and evolution is one of the doctrines of the humanists' religion.

Someone's lied to you, if that's what you think. It wasn't God who whispered that bit of slander in your ear.

When you let God do it His way, you will not feel the need to bear false witness against other Christians.

And you will be happier.[/quote:9646b]
Believe the lie of the devil if you like, but you will never know true joy until you repent of your unbelief and follow the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. When you are able to break away from your RCC upbringing, you may one day see the truth. Until then you will continue to believe a lie from the one that you declare as god. The god of this world has invented the theory of evolution and you are giving him the glory due the creator. Repent and believe Jesus Christ and you too may have the joy of his salvation. Happiness is nothing compared to His joy.

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

Calling 1850 years of theology the lie of the devil in favor of a fundamentalist doctrine that was considered radically unintellectual by theologians for all of that time. How wonderfully narrow minded.

 

[Solo]

Calling 1850 years of theology the lie of the devil in favor of a fundamentalist doctrine that was considered radically unintellectual by theologians for all of that time. How wonderfully narrow minded.

I can afford to be narrow-minded because I am right! :D

 

[cubedbee]

Well the one thing that we agree on is that God created the heavens and the earth. What we disagree on is whether God's word can be taken as literal.

Most Christians accept that much of Genesis is not literal. St. Augustine tried for a very long time to find a way to understand it as literal, and finally gave up.

[quote:ac3a8]I take the creation in Genesis as literal and that God created each animal, plant, and man without the need for evolution from a one celled organism that miraculously appeared in a primevil soup.

You do know that is not part of evolutionary theory, don't you?

[quote:ac3a8]I also beleive the literal word of God in that the creation only took almighty God seven literal days.

Six. It says six days, but of course God did not say that they were literal days. Most Christians see them as not literal.

My relationship with God is one where I know him to be true and what he tells me is true.

So why not go all the way and accept what He says in Genesis?

He always gives me the understanding when things are false, and he has shown me that evolution is a lie from the devil, and evolution is one of the doctrines of the humanists' religion.

Someone's lied to you, if that's what you think. It wasn't God who whispered that bit of slander in your ear.

When you let God do it His way, you will not feel the need to bear false witness against other Christians.

And you will be happier.[/quote:ac3a8]
Believe the lie of the devil if you like, but you will never know true joy until you repent of your unbelief and follow the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. When you are able to break away from your RCC upbringing, you may one day see the truth. Until then you will continue to believe a lie from the one that you declare as god. The god of this world has invented the theory of evolution and you are giving him the glory due the creator. Repent and believe Jesus Christ and you too may have the joy of his salvation. Happiness is nothing compared to His joy.[/quote:ac3a8]
Believe the lie of the devil if you like, but there are millions of Christians who have repented and know this joy, and yet don't perpuate the lie that is called Young Earth Creationism. I am one of them, and everything Barbarian has ever written leads me to believe he is as well. When you are able to break from your fundamentalist upbringing, you may one day see the truth. Until then you will continue to believe a lie from the one that you declare as god. The god of this world has invented the theory of Young Earth Creationism and you are serving him by spreading lies which contradict God's creation. If you haven't already, repent and believe Jesus Christ and you too may have the joy of his salvation. If you have, then pray that he'll unharden your heart and allow you to see the truth.

 

[Solo]

I am fine with being a child of God who believes His Word without hiding from the truth behind a humanistic liberal belief system. I do not need to walk in the deception that satan has "enlightened" his children with. They will one day see the foolishness of believing the lies and deceptions of satan instead of heeding the Holy Spirit when reading the Word of God.

The six literal days of creation and the seventh literal day of rest is plain in the scriptures. Only those who have a different agenda than the truth must twist and ignore the written words that were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Genesis also is very clear on the creation of each animal, fish, plant, and man to the point that anything other than this description of creation is a lie.

The pharisees and the scribes thought that they had it all together too, but they did not believe Moses, the prophets, and Jesus himself so you are in good company.

 

[Drew]

I am fine with being a child of God who believes His Word without hiding from the truth behind a humanistic liberal belief system. I do not need to walk in the deception that satan has "enlightened" his children with. They will one day see the foolishness of believing the lies and deceptions of satan instead of heeding the Holy Spirit when reading the Word of God.

The six literal days of creation and the seventh literal day of rest is plain in the scriptures. Only those who have a different agenda than the truth must twist and ignore the written words that were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Genesis also is very clear on the creation of each animal, fish, plant, and man to the point that anything other than this description of creation is a lie.

The pharisees and the scribes thought that they had it all together too, but they did not believe Moses, the prophets, and Jesus himself so you are in good company.

While what you are saying is conceivably true, I would ask whether this kind of response really aids the cause that you are presumably advocating for. I will lay my cards on the table: I am a Christian and I reject young earth creationism. However, my real point has to do with the way that you (and a lot of others) argue for the YEC position: by suggesting that those who believe otherwise are under the spell of the devil or have consciously or otherwise adopted a "liberal / humanistic" belief system.

I think that adopting this kind of posture gives the impression to your audience that you have abandoned a "let's reason together" position. It is also easy to assume that those who deploy such rhetoric do so because of the fundamental weakness of their position. In short, I think you will get a lot more mileage out of addressing the real issues such as:

Why should we read the Bible in the literal way that you do (I understand this degree of literalism is a fairly recent, largely American phenomena)?

Is it really believable that so many experts are involved in a vast conspiracy (of arguable intentionality) to support a theory (evolution) if the real evidence is inconsistent with evolution?

I fully admit that a real technical understanding of the science behind evolution is probably beyond all of us on this board. By the same token, I would hope that you would consider the possibiliy that the original writer of Genesis never intended his writing (the creation part) to be a factual narrative.

 

[Solo]

I am fine with being a child of God who believes His Word without hiding from the truth behind a humanistic liberal belief system. I do not need to walk in the deception that satan has "enlightened" his children with. They will one day see the foolishness of believing the lies and deceptions of satan instead of heeding the Holy Spirit when reading the Word of God.

The six literal days of creation and the seventh literal day of rest is plain in the scriptures. Only those who have a different agenda than the truth must twist and ignore the written words that were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Genesis also is very clear on the creation of each animal, fish, plant, and man to the point that anything other than this description of creation is a lie.

The pharisees and the scribes thought that they had it all together too, but they did not believe Moses, the prophets, and Jesus himself so you are in good company.

While what you are saying is conceivably true, I would ask whether this kind of response really aids the cause that you are presumably advocating for. I will lay my cards on the table: I am a Christian and I reject young earth creationism. However, my real point has to do with the way that you (and a lot of others) argue for the YEC position: by suggesting that those who believe otherwise are under the spell of the devil or have consciously or otherwise adopted a "liberal / humanistic" belief system.

I think that adopting this kind of posture gives the impression to your audience that you have abandoned a "let's reason together" position. It is also easy to assume that those who deploy such rhetoric do so because of the fundamental weakness of their position. In short, I think you will get a lot more mileage out of addressing the real issues such as:

Why should we read the Bible in the literal way that you do (I understand this degree of literalism is a fairly recent, largely American phenomena)?

Is it really believable that so many experts are involved in a vast conspiracy (of arguable intentionality) to support a theory (evolution) if the real evidence is inconsistent with evolution?

I fully admit that a real technical understanding of the science behind evolution is probably beyond all of us on this board. By the same token, I would hope that you would consider the possibiliy that the original writer of Genesis never intended his writing (the creation part) to be a factual narrative.

You can disagree with God's Word if you feel better about evolution than a literal understanding of what God said in Genesis. It does not bother me in the least. I believe what God has revealed to his creatures through creation, and I know without one bit of doubt that his Word is true, and evolution is a lie.

The technical understanding of evolution is impossible because it is not true, but an understanding and wisdom of God's truth is available to all who believe and ask for it. I know that the creation of the heavens and the earth was accomplished in seven literal days (one day of rest), and that the creation of all animals, fish, plants, and mankind was performed whereby each one would recreate according to each kind.

Disagree if you like, but beware that the enemy of the truth of God is out to lie and deceive whoever will listen. Let me make sure that you understand, I don't believe that those that believe in evolution are under the spell of anyone; I believe that those that believe in evolution are deceived and they believe a lie from the devil. No doubt in my mind.

 

[Barbarian]

You can disagree with God's Word if you feel better about evolution than a literal understanding of what God said in Genesis.

Fortunately, you don't have to make that choice. Since God's word and evolution are completely compatible, we don't have to choose between God and science.

It does not bother me in the least. I believe what God has revealed to his creatures through creation, and I know without one bit of doubt that his Word is true, and evolution is a lie.

It's directly observed. And the evidence for common descent is compelling. Obviously, no lie could be kept by so many, for so long.

The technical understanding of evolution is impossible because it is not true,

See above. Christians accept evolution, because we accept God's creation. Creationists reject His ways, because they would prefer another way.