[_ Old Earth _] The heart of the matter

[Solo]

Complete propaganda from the unbelieving humanistic perspective. Another systematic presentation of falsehoods invented to cast doubt on the Word of God and the truth contained therein.

It casts doubt on the story you were told about what the Word of God says. But it is in no way contrary to the Word of God. You want a falsehood? Here's one:

[quote:1f45e]"Evolutionists are not up on the spiritual side of life as they have sold themselves under the pseudo-scientific guise of false origins of the created life"

This lie is so blatant, I cannot imagine a Christian making it. Most of us accept that evolution is consistent with our faith in God.

Many such unsaved plants spew the same garbage in Christian groups today, bent on destroying the truth of God.

Do you honestly believe that Christians who disagree with you on this are "bent on destroying the truth of God?" May God forgive you.

I will let you in on a little secret though........God wins and all those that have believed a lie will be outed.

Then you best hope that He is merciful to you.[/quote:1f45e]
Your confirmation that evolution is consistant with your faith in God is a very suspect faith that you have in God, especially since evolution is a lie from the devil himself.

My hope has already convinced my that evolution is a lie, and it is He who judges. His word said that each animal, plant, and man was created after its own kind. He also has said that it took him seven literal days to create the heavens and the earth. I know that you disbelieve the Word of God and accept the word of a Godless humanistic ideology, but hey, God can tell you and you can argue with him. See ya.

PS. I didn't recognize you as a Christian by your posts. At what age did you become a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ?

 

[bibleberean]

and no creator is going to reward people for being gullible into believing things for which they have not witnessed.

My God is going to judge people for things they have not witnessed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

We are saved by faith

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

That is what Christians believe.

Yeppers!

 

[reznwerks]

bible

and no creator is going to reward people for being gullible into believing things for which they have not witnessed.

My God is going to judge people for things they have not witnessed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

We are saved by faith

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

That is what Christians believe.

Yeppers!

I know what the bible says but can you prove it?Do you have any evidence outside the bible to back you up or any evidence at all? Believing because something is possible is one thing , believing when you know it's not is another.

 

[Solo]

Re: bible

and no creator is going to reward people for being gullible into believing things for which they have not witnessed.

My God is going to judge people for things they have not witnessed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

We are saved by faith

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

That is what Christians believe.

Yeppers!

I know what the bible says but can you prove it?Do you have any evidence outside the bible to back you up or any evidence at all? Believing because something is possible is one thing , believing when you know it's not is another.

If you know the what the Bible says, then you know that believing the Word of God is the first step in having the evidence of God in ones life. God doesn't need or want just any tom, dick, or harry that is not able to trust Him. You can continue on your path of unbelief, and when it is too late, then you will wish you would have listened. Simple.

I know because I have been an unbeliever just like you saved by grace when I was 28 years old.

 

[bibleberean]

know what the bible says but can you prove it?Do you have any evidence outside the bible to back you up or any evidence at all? Believing because something is possible is one thing , believing when you know it's not is another.

You have the gall to tell me that a God you don't believe in won't judge us for what we don't know and then have the audacity to demand that I prove it?

You prove your contention!

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

At the moment the closest thing to logical proof here is a Cartesian circle, and that was from Solo.

 

[Solo]

At the moment the closest thing to logical proof here is a Cartesian circle, and that was from Solo.

The difference between my evidence and Descartes' evidence is that my perception of reality does not determine whether God exists, but instead I perceive that God exists because God is, and He has revealed himself to me. A minor observation, but Descartes and I agree that God can not lie.

 

[Barbarian]

Your confirmation that evolution is consistant with your faith in God is a very suspect faith that you have in God, especially since evolution is a lie from the devil himself.

Perhaps there's a lie from the devil going on here, in a way you haven't yet discovered. He is most happy when he can divide Christians over inconsequential issues. Don't let him do that to you.

My hope has already convinced my that evolution is a lie, and it is He who judges.

You have convinced yourself that evolution is not true, and have tacked your new doctrine onto God. It won't work.

His word said that each animal, plant, and man was created after its own kind.

He didn't say "kinds", did he? Do you know why?

In fact, He says nothing at all about evolution one way or the other.

He also has said that it took him seven literal days to create the heavens and the earth.

"Literal" is your addition to His Word. Not a good idea.

I know that you disbelieve the Word of God and accept the word of a Godless humanistic ideology,

You should be ashamed of yourself. I'm pretty sure you know that isn't true. Try to maintain some self-control.

but hey, God can tell you and you can argue with him. See ya.

The usual. Bails out in a volley of false accusations.

PS. I didn't recognize you as a Christian by your posts.

Neither did I, you. You're not exactly the model of Christian behavior.

At what age did you become a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ?

I guess I always knew He was God. But at twelve I went through the experience of "you aren't the center of the universe" about 3:00 one morning and that loss of confidence led to a recognition that there was no meaning to anything without Him. And from that time, I accepted that He was in charge of my life, not me.

If I was ever inclined to act the way you do, that put an end to it.

 

[Solo]

Barbarian,

Your confirmation that evolution is consistant with your faith in God is a very suspect faith that you have in God, especially since evolution is a lie from the devil himself.

Perhaps there's a lie from the devil going on here, in a way you haven't yet discovered. He is most happy when he can divide Christians over inconsequential issues. Don't let him do that to you.

Satan's lies are very evident. They lead people to disbelieve the Word of God. That has been his modus operandi from day one with Adam and Eve. If evolution casts doubt on the word of God, it is from God, it is from satan.

My hope has already convinced my that evolution is a lie, and it is He who judges.

You have convinced yourself that evolution is not true, and have tacked your new doctrine onto God. It won't work.

No, the Word of God convinced me. Perhaps you haven't understood the value of having the Holy Spirit direct the choices in ones life.

5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. 7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil. Proverbs 3:5-7[/quote]

His word said that each animal, plant, and man was created after its own kind.

He didn't say "kinds", did he? Do you know why?

In fact, He says nothing at all about evolution one way or the other.

Read again, friend, without the "word doubting" influence of the enemy.

Every creature was created after its kind, and every creature was created to reproduce after its kind according to the Bible:

Genesis 1:11
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

Genesis 1:12
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:21
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 1:24
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Genesis 1:25
And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 6:20
Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

Genesis 7:14
They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.

Leviticus 11:14
And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;

Leviticus 11:15
Every raven after his kind;

Leviticus 11:16
And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,

Leviticus 11:19
And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Leviticus 11:22
Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.

Leviticus 11:29
These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth; the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind,

Leviticus 19:19
Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

Deuteronomy 14:13
And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,

Deuteronomy 14:14
And every raven after his kind,

Deuteronomy 14:15
And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,

Deuteronomy 14:18
And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

The Hebrew word for Kind is transliterated Miyn which means:

kind, sometimes a species (usually of animals) ++++ Groups of living organisms belong in the same created "kind" if they have descended from the same ancestral gene pool. This does not preclude new species because this represents a partitioning of the original gene pool. Information is lost or conserved not gained. A new species could arise when a population is isolated and inbreeding occurs. By this definition a new species is not a new "kind" but a further partitioning of an existing "kind".

He also has said that it took him seven literal days to create the heavens and the earth.

"Literal" is your addition to His Word. Not a good idea.

Literal is a word that denotes truth behind a recorded word. God himself shows that the seven days of creation is literal, six days of work and one day of rest. Some really wrestle the Word of God to fit what is written into a false belief system.

Here are verses from the scripture that define the days that creation was made in so that you can determine that the days spoken of were literal. Believe God's word or believe the anti-Christ doctrine of the humanists.


Genesis 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1:8
And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Genesis 1:13
And the evening and the morning were the third day.

Genesis 1:19
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Genesis 1:23
And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

Genesis 1:31
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

I know that you disbelieve the Word of God and accept the word of a Godless humanistic ideology,

You should be ashamed of yourself. I'm pretty sure you know that isn't true. Try to maintain some self-control.

I do maintain self-control. You should see what my flesh wanted to say. You are holding on to the religion of humanists in your excuse to believe in evolution. It takes more faith to believe in this Godless origin of man philosophy than it does to believe in an omnipotent, omnipresent God.

but hey, God can tell you and you can argue with him. See ya.

The usual. Bails out in a volley of false accusations.

I only bail out when I go to wipe the dust off of my feet from the unbelieving or hardened of heart; in order to move on to the next person God leads me to share the scriptures for doctrine, reproof, correction, and/or instruction in righteousness.

PS. I didn't recognize you as a Christian by your posts.

Neither did I, you. You're not exactly the model of Christian behavior.

I wouldn't expect to be your model of Christian behavior. I am not one that coddles another in their sin or unbelief.

At what age did you become a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ?

I guess I always knew He was God. But at twelve I went through the experience of "you aren't the center of the universe" about 3:00 one morning and that loss of confidence led to a recognition that there was no meaning to anything without Him. And from that time, I accepted that He was in charge of my life, not me.

If I was ever inclined to act the way you do, that put an end to it.

The thing that you need to put an end to is your conforming to this world, and instead be transformed by the renewing of your mind by the scriptures.

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

I take it from your testimony that you understand that Jesus is God?

Thanks for the post,
Solo

 

[Barbarian]

If you accept that Jesus is God, why will you not accept God's word in Genesis?

Clearly Leviticus says nothing at all about animals reproducing at all. I'm not some atheist you can snow with that sort of thing. I've been reading Scripture likely before you were born. Remember who you're talking to.

 

[Solo]

I've been reading Scripture likely before you were born. Remember who you're talking to.

One of these days it should start sinking in then. :wink:

I posted where it is recorded in Genesis that each living thing is created and reproduces after it's kind, and I have shown where it is recorded in Genesis that the week of creation is seven literal days. Don't let man's finite observations in the realm of Physical Science clog your spiritual sensors because of fleshly desire.

PS I was born in 1955. I have seen the lies and hoaxes of evolution perpetrated on the children of the public education system revealed as such years after being sold as fact. Anyone who believes in evolution as being the way that man originited on earth, and the earth being billions of years old is decieved by the devil and his ilk. No doubt in my mind.

But hey, if evolutionists can wait until they die before they discover the truth, let it be.

 

[reznwerks]

believe

know what the bible says but can you prove it?Do you have any evidence outside the bible to back you up or any evidence at all? Believing because something is possible is one thing , believing when you know it's not is another.

You have the gall to tell me that a God you don't believe in won't judge us for what we don't know and then have the audacity to demand that I prove it?

You prove your contention!

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and saying that IF a God exists he is not going to judge me based on things I have not witnessed and events that are doubtful to have occurred.Christianity makes all kinds of claims and promises but outside of the bible they are not verifiable.I am afraid the burden of proof is on you since you made the claim. Yes, if the all loving God, all merciful God that you claim exists really does then logically he is not going to judge me negatively based on believing what the conscious mind knows can't happen. I really find it impossible to believe that a creator of the universe( if one exists) would judge me based on the degree of gullibility I possess.

 

[reznwerks]

age

I've been reading Scripture likely before you were born. Remember who you're talking to.

PS I was born in 1955. I have seen the lies and hoaxes of evolution perpetrated on the children of the public education system revealed as such years after being sold as fact. Anyone who believes in evolution as being the way that man originited on earth, and the earth being billions of years old is decieved by the devil and his ilk. No doubt in my mind.

.

Well if you have seen the lies and hoaxes of evolution over the years why does evolution gain a stronger foot hold every day? The evidence that evolution is reality gains more evidence every day not the other way around. Because of this the voice of the ID'rs gets louder every day but not because of they have evidence but because they have less and less reason to continue believing in a literal bible.

 

[Barbarian]

One of these days it should start sinking in then.

It is because I am willing to let God be God that I feel no need to add to scripture.

I posted where it is recorded in Genesis that each living thing is created and reproduces after it's kind,

A good example. You added "reproduces" to make it more acceptable to you.

and I have shown where it is recorded in Genesis that the week of creation is seven literal days.

No, you did nothing of the kind. I asked you to show me where it said Genesis was literal, and you refused to do so.

Don't let man's finite observations in the realm of Physical Science clog your spiritual sensors because of fleshly desire.

You've strayed precisely because your desires have led you into rejecting God's creation.

Barbarian observes (edit to clarify):
I've been reading Scripture likely before you were born. Remember who you're talking to.

PS I was born in 1955.

I was born in 1947. Is this a contest? If so, I win. I was indeed reading Scripture before you were born.

I have seen the lies and hoaxes of evolution perpetrated on the children of the public education system revealed as such years after being sold as fact.

It would be astonishingly paranoid for anyone to truly believe that they are lies. Do you realize that no conspiracy that size could last that long in human society? Of course, as you've seen here, old predictions of evolutionary theory are being verified by new findings almost daily. This is why most scientists accept evolution; nothing else can explain the evidence.

Anyone who believes in evolution as being the way that man originited on earth, and the earth being billions of years old is decieved by the devil and his ilk. No doubt in my mind.

You've deceived yourself. Fortunately your salvation does not depend on whether or not you accept the way God did it.

But hey, if evolutionists can wait until they die before they discover the truth, let it be.

The truth is right in front of you. All you have to do is say "God, I accept Your creation, anyway You chose to do it."

And all the problems go away.

 

[Solo]

Re: age

I've been reading Scripture likely before you were born. Remember who you're talking to.

PS I was born in 1955. I have seen the lies and hoaxes of evolution perpetrated on the children of the public education system revealed as such years after being sold as fact. Anyone who believes in evolution as being the way that man originited on earth, and the earth being billions of years old is decieved by the devil and his ilk. No doubt in my mind.

.

Well if you have seen the lies and hoaxes of evolution over the years why does evolution gain a stronger foot hold every day? The evidence that evolution is reality gains more evidence every day not the other way around. Because of this the voice of the ID'rs gets louder every day but not because of they have evidence but because they have less and less reason to continue believing in a literal bible.

Evolution only gains a stronger foothold in the world of unbelief. Those that know God and his Word know that life did not evolve from one-celled organism that just happened to appear in a soup that just happened to appear in a place that just happened to appear with a luckey position away from the sun, moon, stars for perfect climate and means of existance and growth, totally ignorant of genetics, dna, "natural laws", etc.

It takes more faith to be an unbeliever accepting evolution than it does to be a believer accepting creation.

There is no evidence of macro-evolution, nor is their agreement in the evolutionary circles of scientific analysis. Most evolutionists must disagree with Darwinism today because of the utter ridiculous stance that was taken in Charles' natural selection theory. Most of his speculation was due to an anti-theist bend as he suffered unexplainable depressions and experiences in his life. He totally turned his back on God in his later years and he was bent on proving to himself that he was right in this error of judgment. Simple.

 

[bibleberean]

I was born in 1949 and every for every passing year even though evolutionary theory has been shoved down my throat from school, Television, magazines, newspapers, radio, museums and intelligent fools like Carl Sagan I still can't buy it.

Man was created from the dust of the earth and God breathed the breath of life in Him. That is what the bible teaches.

I can't get a living human witness and I really can't prove it but that's the bible's story and I'm stickin to it.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Versus

Man slowly evolved from swamp gas over billions of years.

Oh yeah, I can believe that. Not!

 

[itoldyounoalready]

I was born in 1949 and every for every passing year even though evolutionary theory has been shoved down my throat from school, Television, magazines, newspapers, radio, museums and intelligent fools like Carl Sagan I still can't buy it.

Man was created from the dust of the earth and God breathed the breath of life in Him. That is what the bible teaches.

I can't get a living human witness and I really can't prove it but that's the bible's story and I'm stickin to it.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

I guess sometimes that's what Chrisitans are forced to do, stick to their guns even though they can't find a soul in the world to back up their story,but we know the truth.It's only a matter of time before the rest of the world knows too.
Versus

Man slowly evolved from swamp gas over billions of years.

Oh yeah, I can believe that. Not!

 

[Solo]

But hey, if evolutionists can wait until they die before they discover the truth, let it be.

The truth is right in front of you. All you have to do is say "God, I accept Your creation, anyway You chose to do it."

And all the problems go away.

Father God,
Thank you for revealing the truth which is right in front of all to see in the way that even a child can see. I accept your creation exactly how you revealed it to your children in a simple, literal, Godly biased Word of truth. Thank you for the simple faith to believe your word as truth.

Thank you Lord Jesus for your untiring appeal to those who refuse to see your truth, and may you continue to release those that are in bondage to this world. Also free those that are trapped by the lies of the deciever. May they see your word through the Holy Spirit as you cast the evil influence from the minds of those who have been deceived. Thank you for your love and your peace, and to God be the glory. Amen.

 

[Barbarian]

Man slowly evolved from swamp gas over billions of years.

Oh yeah, I can believe that. Not!

Wouldn't you be more effective arguing against evolution, if you actually knew what it was?

 

[Barbarian]

Solo, I'm afraid your pride is not going to let you accept His creation as it is.

Fortunately, it's not a salvation issue. But if you'd let go, and let Him decide, you'd have a closer relationship with Him.

It's worth a try, isn't it?