The Image

[Gary]

What if the events of Rev 13 began to occur when Jesus was here and was killed through the hand of Rome.

Revelation 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,
2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.


Things that "must" take place. Not things that have "already" happened.

The time is "near". Not the time is "past".


Revelation was written 60 years after the crucifixion.

Revelation--A.D. 94-96

http://www.gty.org/resources/questions/QA176/when-were-the-bible-books-written

Revelation - late 80's, early 90's

http://carm.org/when-was-bible-written-and-who-wrote-it

.

 

[Kathi]

This is interesting.Their is also another image that shows up on everything I buy.It says you can scan it and learn more information.That is interesting too.

 

[Edward]

There's a couple of points that are relevant, but the fact is that we may not know for sure which image it will be beforehand. That said, just for consideration, the Kabba Stone which the Muslims worship is said that it will speak one day and give wisdom to the world.

But, scripture says! That his sheep know His voice. SoI don't think we need to worry at all, for the real Lord Jesus Christ will be coming for us, and we wont even need to get out of our easy chair. Who cares if they say God is in the sky, or desert, or whereever. It's not Him unless we hear His voice speak to us and we know it's Him.

 

[digging]

Thank-you Gary for your reply,

Have you also noticed what it says further down in vs 19 "Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things. Because of this vs I've always understood Revelation explaining events that cover from the days Jesus left to the days Jesus will return.

I just don't see anything that could be more likely to give the one head a death stroke more so than Jesus Christ whom
has 'out of His mouth came a sharp two-edged sword'. When Jesus returns the whole beast is to be destroyed which is what I believe we are now waiting for.

At this time my understanding of the time line is that Jesus life and death marked the half of the week.

Daniel 9:27 NAS
"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering ; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

I see this as a great epoch week covering the whole time period from the fall of Adam to the conclusion of the 1000's years. Which I understand this account also speaking about.

Daniel 4:16 NAS
"Let his mind be changed from that of a man And let a beast's mind be given to him, And let seven periods of time pass over him.

Digging

 

[turnorburn]

Have you seen this blaspheme.. the world is gravitating toward it by accepting his word as the gospel.. this is not the gospel..

Pope's Mass: The Church is our Mother. She cleanses us of our sins

POPE FRANCIS
"It's a gift from God and we must pray for it. To say, 'Lord, grant me the gift of dying at my spiritual home, in the heart of the Church.' We are sinners! All of us are. But we're not traitors. No! We are not corrupt. No! We stay on the inside! The Church, our Mother loves us so, despite our sins, the Church cleanses us. She's our Mother."

http://www.romereports.com/pg155711...is-our-mother-she-cleanses-us-of-our-sins--en

tob

 

[Gary]

Thank-you Gary for your reply,

I would like to address your previous post once more, if you don't mind.

I see the Image of the beast as the institutionalization of Christianity created by Rome. I see the' mark of the beast' as the action of total indoctrination that began under the threat of death. I see the 'buying and selling' as a reference to the act of exchanging/teaching/learning doctrine dictated by the image of the beast.

When we are a child of God we have his name/mark on our forehead, and we are NOT welcome to 'buy or sell' within institutional Christianity.

You're contradicting yourself. How can the mark be 2 different things? And if one has the mark, why aren't they allowed to participate in the buying and selling?

Compare this with what Jesus says in

Revelation 3:18 NAS
I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed ; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.

A faithful follower is to only 'buy' from Jesus and Jesus is the only one who can 'sell' spiritual things.

This passage has nothing to do with the mark of the beast and buying and selling associated with it.

 

[digging]

Gary I think you perhaps are rushing and not quite understanding what I have tried to explain. True faithful Christians have the name/mark of God on their forehead.

Revelation 14:1 NAS
[The Lamb and the 144,000 on Mount Zion] Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.

There are two different marks one is from the image of the beast on some people and the other is by God on his chosen people.

The passage in Rev 3:18 has everything to do with helping us understand the meaning of the terms used 'buying and selling', Jesus has given us a key/clue to understand this symbolism.

Digging

 

[ezrider]

What if the events of Rev 13 began to occur when Jesus was here and was killed through the hand of Rome. While Jesus was here the King of God's Kingdom was here and his presence was the 'death stroke', but he left and the head revived and transformed itself by nationalizing Christianity.

I see the Image of the beast as the institutionalization of Christianity created by Rome. I see the' mark of the beast' as the action of total indoctrination that began under the threat of death. I see the 'buying and selling' as a reference to the act of exchanging/teaching/learning doctrine dictated by the image of the beast.

Digging

This is actually quite insightful. It brings to mind the two covenants in Galatians 4 and the allegory of the bondwoman who is in bondage through the flesh and answers to Jerusalem which is now, but Jerusalem which is above is free. I agree that institutionalized Christianity is the image of the beast, but how do you describe that image? In the book of John, Jesus makes a reference to having to leave because he knew the men desired to make him king. There were many who believed the words that he spoke and saw him as their King, until he was crucified. When Jerusalem was judged, the standard of Jerusalem by the law of Moses was dead. But through the belief of the resurrection of Jesus, obedience to the law of sin and death has made the Christian church the new standard of Jerusalem. It is a church that has taken the image of the man Jesus, and has made that image into their God. It is a church that rules through obedience and the fear of sin and death, and the law gives them their authority. And it is a church that awaits the return of their earthly king.

 

[turnorburn]

I just wrote this to a friend now I'm writing it to you..

I've been to countries where your either Catholic or your a heretic waiting for your day to come.. This is the system Jesus is coming to destroy with the spirit of his mouth.. Listen as the image of the beast speaks..

She appears as a living, breathing, three-dimensional lady enveloped in exquisite light. Visionaries and seers describe a beautiful, young woman glowing in radiant splendor. Seers, while describing her as brilliant to behold and arrayed with every splendor, admit that the "Queen of Heaven" transcends human description.


"My sign is emerging. God wills it thus. Only my children recognize it, as it reveals itself in secrecy, and they praise the Eternal One for it. Today I cannot reveal my power to the whole world. I must withdraw with my children. In secrecy I will perform miracles on the souls until the number of sacrifices has become full. ?Then I can reveal myself to the whole world?[2]

Soon, I will come, my children! Soon, I will be in your midst with a great light. I will enlighten the entire world. Many souls will cry because they did not listen to my call. ?I will pass above everyone in a cloud and everyone will see me. What will become of those who insulted me and made a laughing stock of me? ?I will come soon, my sons, to travel through the entire world. I will give a great sign in the sky for those who will still want to be saved. All those who have recourse to me, who have a look of repentance, this will be sufficient to save them.[3]"

http://biblebelievers.com/tetlow/queenofall01.html

i pray to God that you know Jesus Christ otherwise you'll be swallowed up with the rest..

tob

 

[turnorburn]

Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Its here guys Wake Up!

tob

 

[SeekHisFace]

What if the events of Rev 13 began to occur when Jesus was here and was killed through the hand of Rome. While Jesus was here the King of God's Kingdom was here and his presence was the 'death stroke', but he left and the head revived and transformed itself by nationalizing Christianity.

I see the Image of the beast as the institutionalization of Christianity created by Rome. I see the' mark of the beast' as the action of total indoctrination that began under the threat of death. I see the 'buying and selling' as a reference to the act of exchanging/teaching/learning doctrine dictated by the image of the beast.

Compare this with what Jesus says in

Revelation 3:18 NAS
I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed ; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.

A faithful follower is to only 'buy' from Jesus and Jesus is the only one who can 'sell' spiritual things.

When we are a child of God we have his name/mark on our forehead, and we are NOT welcome to 'buy or sell' within institutional Christianity.

Digging

I tend to agree with Digging, because this is the direction that the Holy Spirit has led me.

Also, just wondering about the day as a year...I think the scripture says something different...but those numbers seem to add up if the wound was healed in ---I think 1929? :

2Pe_3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The image---Jesus is the image of the Father and we will become as the image of Christ as He will finish/perform the work in us, as we continue to change to the completion of the "new man".

We also can consider the inkhorn:

Eze 9:3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;
Eze 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

 

[turnorburn]

I've got it why didn't i think of this before the image is a man made hologram of Pee-Wee Herman..

tob

 

[turnorburn]

Queen of All

Queen of Rome, Queen of Islam, Queen of All: The Marian Apparitions plan to unite all religions Under the Roman Catholic Church


Mary...Millions of Catholics travel to shrines to pray before her image. But what is not commonly known is that Muslims also hold her in high regard, and even among Hindus and Buddhists there is worship of goddesses that bear a striking resemblance to the Catholic Mary.

Our Lady's Ecumenical Peace Plan

A consistent message given by the thousands of apparitions currently manifesting worldwide is one of peace, unity, and tolerance. At Medjugorje, the apparition of Mary has stated:

Dear children, today I invite you to peace. I have come here as the Queen of Peace and I desire to enrich you with my Motherly Peace.... I invite you to become carriers and witnesses of my peace to this unpeaceful world. Let peace rule in the whole world.[25]

In another message, Mary told the seers: "Tell this priest, tell everyone, that it is you who are divided on earth. The Muslims and the Orthodox, for the same reason as Catholics, are equal before my Son and I. You are all my children."[26] Mary's message of peace, unity, and tolerance is one that a distressed and perplexed world craves.

Her reported messages in Betania, Venezuela typify her words of hope given around the world: "My children, I am giving you a piece of Heaven.... Betania, Venezuela. It is for everyone, not only Catholics.... My message is of faith, love, and hope. More than anything, it brings reconciliation between people and nations. It is the only thing that can save this century from war and eternal death."[27]

According to Charles Dickson, author of A Protestant Pastor Looks at Mary, Mary transcends our cultural and even religious boundaries:

A Muslim student visiting Rome wants especially to see the Church of Santa Maria Maggiore. Surprised? The poetry of a Syrian mystic is replete with Marian devotion. Surprised? Martin Luther recommended prayer to Mary. Surprised? An American Pentecostalist minister begins to visit shrines of Marian apparitions. Surprised? Muslims refer to Mary as il-Sittneh, or Our Lady. Surprised? A chapter in the Koran is named after her. Surprised? Mary's deep kindness as a mother is portrayed in Chinese art. Surprised? And now a presbyterian minister has written a book recommending praying the rosary. Still surprised? ? a closer investigation of both past history and current events points out that Mary has a universal appeal that transcends our cultural, geographical, and even religious boundaries.[28]

tob

 

[Eugene]

Queen of All

Queen of Rome, Queen of Islam, Queen of All: The Marian Apparitions plan to unite all religions Under the Roman Catholic Church

Mary...Millions of Catholics travel to shrines to pray before her image. But what is not commonly known is that Muslims also hold her in high regard, and even among Hindus and Buddhists there is worship of goddesses that bear a striking resemblance to the Catholic Mary.

Our Lady's Ecumenical Peace Plan

A consistent message given by the thousands of apparitions currently manifesting worldwide is one of peace, unity, and tolerance. At Medjugorje, the apparition of Mary has stated:

Dear children, today I invite you to peace. I have come here as the Queen of Peace and I desire to enrich you with my Motherly Peace.... I invite you to become carriers and witnesses of my peace to this unpeaceful world. Let peace rule in the whole world.[25]

In another message, Mary told the seers: "Tell this priest, tell everyone, that it is you who are divided on earth. The Muslims and the Orthodox, for the same reason as Catholics, are equal before my Son and I. You are all my children."[26] Mary's message of peace, unity, and tolerance is one that a distressed and perplexed world craves.

Her reported messages in Betania, Venezuela typify her words of hope given around the world: "My children, I am giving you a piece of Heaven.... Betania, Venezuela. It is for everyone, not only Catholics.... My message is of faith, love, and hope. More than anything, it brings reconciliation between people and nations. It is the only thing that can save this century from war and eternal death."[27]

According to Charles Dickson, author of A Protestant Pastor Looks at Mary, Mary transcends our cultural and even religious boundaries:

A Muslim student visiting Rome wants especially to see the Church of Santa Maria Maggiore. Surprised? The poetry of a Syrian mystic is replete with Marian devotion. Surprised? Martin Luther recommended prayer to Mary. Surprised? An American Pentecostalist minister begins to visit shrines of Marian apparitions. Surprised? Muslims refer to Mary as il-Sittneh, or Our Lady. Surprised? A chapter in the Koran is named after her. Surprised? Mary's deep kindness as a mother is portrayed in Chinese art. Surprised? And now a presbyterian minister has written a book recommending praying the rosary. Still surprised? ? a closer investigation of both past history and current events points out that Mary has a universal appeal that transcends our cultural, geographical, and even religious boundaries.[28]

tob

Hi Brother ToB, I can’t vouch for the validity of the following sites, but there are many such articles available. Mother and child worship isn’t new with the Catholic Church, and will continue right on into the end times.
Images for Nimrod Semiramis and Tammuz

Paganism in Christianity
http://www.infiniteabundance.us/historyofpaganism.html

 

[turnorburn]

There's more coming brother Eugene much more but by the time this world comes to its centses it will be as it was in the days of Noah.. Noah had enough time 120 years was more than enough time.. What must have been the expressions on their faces as the first drop of rain touched down..

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

tob

 

[Eugene]

There's more coming brother Eugene much more but by the time this world comes to its centses it will be as it was in the days of Noah.. Noah had enough time 120 years was more than enough time.. What must have been the expressions on their faces as the first drop of rain touched down..

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

tob

I reckon it would have been a surprise since it had never rained before. I suppose they had a hard time understanding a mist covering the earth as a danger. Finding themselves attempting to learn the eleven steps of treading water is probably putting a real hitch in their get-a-long by that time. Can you just hear them getting religion all of a sudden?

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? It's very probable Noah had preached to them.

 

[turnorburn]

Ready for a Scooby Snack..

To Jesus through Mary!

The Blessed Virgin Mary appeared to this world to give us a warning. Her words, during her apparition in La Salette are striking and imposing: ?If My people will not submit themselves to God, I will be forced to let go of the Hand of My Son?. The Blessed Virgin points here to the end of time. Her dejected manner, the flood of tears and the words of her are the expression of her concern and affection for the people: ?never will you be able to repay me for what I have done for you?. The Blessed Virgin Mary asks for many prayers; to save the earth. She asks for conversion, prayer and penance. She points to the grace the rosary brings and she asks and pleads: ?reconcile with God?. She says: ?I want that everybody be saved, the good as well as the bad. I am the Mother of Love, the Mother of all; you are all my children. Therefore, I wish you all to be saved. This is the reason that I am inviting the entire world to prayer.

http://www.marypages.com/

tob

 

[YogiD2]

Some interesting "concepts".

Revalations was written down in Greek if I recall.... so.
http://biblehub.com/greek/1504.htm
(Quote) 1504 eikn (from 1503 /eíkō, "be like") – properly, "mirror-like representation," referring to what is very close in resemblance (like a "high-definition" projection, as defined by the context). Image (1504 /eikn) then exactly reflects its source (what it directly corresponds to). For example, Christ is the very image (1504 /eikn, supreme expression) of the Godhead (see 2 Cor 4:4; Col 1:15)
"1504 (eikn) assumes a prototype, of which it not merely resembles, but from which it is drawn" (R. Trench). 1504 (eikn) then is more than a "shadow"; rather it is a replication (F. F. Bruce, Hebrews, 226; see also Lightfoot at Col 3:10 and 2:21). (End quote)

And in my opinion. The "beast" will be "god-like". Do wonders, do ministry, maybe raise from the dead, things Christ Jesus would do maybe like walk on water, I don't really have a solid clue but I think if I keep a "open eye" and be "sckeptical" of the people claiming to be "god like" or those who come saying they are Jesus, maybe I won't be decieved.

 

[John S]

The antichrist will deceive people in the beginning because he will be "normal", except for the ability that he will have to solve all of the world's problems. He will be able to bring peace to the Middle East, the Koreas, the Sudans, and anywhere else in the world where there are problems. I'm expecting him to be a relative nobody when he is introduced to the world by the false prophet. I'm not expecting him to be a leader of a country or even a politician - just some low level diplomat - but we'll see.
His assassination and "resurrection", midway through the Tribulation, will cause him to claim that he is god - along with all of the miraculous things that he will be able to do.

In other words, MANY people are expecting him to be a monster as soon as he arrives on the seen. I believe THIS to be the deception. I'm expecting him to be a "good guy" and will only become the "bad guy" later.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

(note that "it will appear" (i.e.not reality) that he will have the ability to solve all the world's problems: war, economic,political "peace, peace, when there is no peace" )
yes, even the churches will officialy say "heil heil!" (like they did in germ, except for the Pentecostal churches all the churches supported the germ leader before wwtwo )
right now, today, who fits most all the (about 28) identifying conditions of the cantichrist ? (only one man i know so far fits without contradiction: a popular prince in walse ; royalty lineage, religious lineage, royal crest(i think), 15 other already so far out of the 28)(subject to searching/correction)