Bible Study The importance of the Baptism

[Tenchi]

The bible says, we must not only be a hearer of the word, but a doer of the word also (James 1:21-22). DON'T FOOL YOURSELF! If we really have faith in Jesus our actions will prove it. If Jesus is our Lord then we will obey him. Even a child will obey a parent, by getting good grades in school, for the reward of a new bicycle. The child cannot earn money for the bicycle, but instead must act upon their faith to receive the free gift. We must do the same to receive eternal life. "FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD” (James 2:20).

This comes very near the blasphemous and false doctrine of works-salvation. What is inevitable is not necessary. Though it is inevitable that an apple tree will bear apples (not oranges, or tomatoes, or tulips), it is not necessary to being an apple tree that it bear apples. In other words, bearing apples doesn't make an apple tree an apple tree. No, an apple tree must first be an apple tree before it can bear apples. Being always comes before doing.

So, then, we don't look at an apple tree that, because of immaturity, or lack of moisture, or poor soil, or disease (or all of these), is not producing apples and say, "This apple tree is not bearing apples so it is no longer an apple tree." That would be silly. All the tree needs is water, nourishing soil, freedom from disease, sunlight and time in order to produce apples. Because it is an apple tree, when these things are provided, apples develop naturally and in abundance.

In the same way, it is silly to look at a born-again person not yet bearing spiritual fruit and declare, "This person is not bearing spiritual fruit and is therefore not a Christian." They might be brand new to the faith, and/or suffering from sinful addictions and false teaching, and/or are poorly-nourished spiritually and so are unable to produce spiritual fruit. Get the "fruitless" believer into a healthy spiritual circumstance and then see what happens. When they are well-fed spiritually, relieved of the spiritually-sickening effects of false doctrines and besetting sin, and walk daily in unhindered fellowship with God, spiritual fruit just naturally develops, no demands for it at all necessary, no threats of lost salvation required.

If all these things are available to the person who claims to be saved, but they are not bearing spiritual fruit, then it is proper to question the reality of their claim to membership in God's family. Again, though, being comes before doing: being a born-again person must precede bearing spiritual fruit; the latter can only come out of the former, not the reverse, as the false works-salvation doctrine asserts. But if all the elements required for spiritual fruit-bearing are available to a person and they don't produce corresponding "fruit," there is cause in this to doubt their claim to being truly born-again.

 

[Bro.Tan]

This comes very near the blasphemous and false doctrine of works-salvation. What is inevitable is not necessary. Though it is inevitable that an apple tree will bear apples (not oranges, or tomatoes, or tulips), it is not necessary to being an apple tree that it bear apples. In other words, bearing apples doesn't make an apple tree an apple tree. No, an apple tree must first be an apple tree before it can bear apples. Being always comes before doing.

So, then, we don't look at an apple tree that, because of immaturity, or lack of moisture, or poor soil, or disease (or all of these), is not producing apples and say, "This apple tree is not bearing apples so it is no longer an apple tree." That would be silly. All the tree needs is water, nourishing soil, freedom from disease, sunlight and time in order to produce apples. Because it is an apple tree, when these things are provided, apples develop naturally and in abundance.

In the same way, it is silly to look at a born-again person not yet bearing spiritual fruit and declare, "This person is not bearing spiritual fruit and is therefore not a Christian." They might be brand new to the faith, and/or suffering from sinful addictions and false teaching, and/or are poorly-nourished spiritually and so are unable to produce spiritual fruit. Get the "fruitless" believer into a healthy spiritual circumstance and then see what happens. When they are well-fed spiritually, relieved of the spiritually-sickening effects of false doctrines and besetting sin, and walk daily in unhindered fellowship with God, spiritual fruit just naturally develops, no demands for it at all necessary, no threats of lost salvation required.

If all these things are available to the person who claims to be saved, but they are not bearing spiritual fruit, then it is proper to question the reality of their claim to membership in God's family. Again, though, being comes before doing: being a born-again person must precede bearing spiritual fruit; the latter can only come out of the former, not the reverse, as the false works-salvation doctrine asserts. But if all the elements required for spiritual fruit-bearing are available to a person and they don't produce corresponding "fruit," there is cause in this to doubt their claim to being truly born-again.

Can you explain me how a person is born again, according to the bible?

 

[Bro.Tan]

Nowhere in the Bible is Jesus ever called "The Tree of Life."



No, "grace" refers to a number of things in God's word - unmerited favor, power, beauty, etc. - but nowhere in the Bible is the grace of God connected to the Tree of Life in Eden.

In the scriptures it's written in proverbs 15: 31 The ear that heareth the reproof of life
Abideth among the wise. 32 He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul:
But he that heareth reproof getteth understanding. 33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom;
And before honour is humility.

See, I can tell by the way you responded your spirit it not trying to understand or learn anything. If the shoe was on the other foot I would of ask you to show me, so I can learn something if it was something to learn.

A child of God remains saved on a day-to-day basis? You think a person's salvation lasts only so long as they refrain from willful sin? Is this correct?

I agree, all have sinned (broken the law...Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). When Jesus (the true Lamb of God) was sacrificed, he removed our past sins. If we accept Jesus as our sin offering, we are required to repent and get baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS ("there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved..."(Acts 4: 12). This is our last chance Brothers and Sister.

To repent means to turn from our sinful ways and start obeying God's law. The water baptism signifies the washing away of our past sins. After repenting and being baptized in the name of Jesus it would be foolish for us to turn around and willingly break God's commandments. If we make an honest mistake Jesus can help us, but if we sin willingly, look out! "...there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..." (Hebrews 10:26-27). When Jesus died only the sacrificial law was done away with, alone with Leviticus priesthood.

If it is, if this is what you are proposing in the quotation above, you have not properly considered God's word. Paul the apostle said of the believers at Corinth that they were "carnal babes in Christ" (1 Corinthians 3:1) describing them as fractious, partisan and guilty even of allowing gross sexual sin to continue unchecked in their midst (1 Corinthians 3:2-4; 1 Corinthians 5; 1 Corinthians 11). But though the believers at Corinth were guilty of all of these things -and willfully so - Paul still called them God's "fields" and "buildings," "temples" of the Holy Spirit, "brethren," and confirmed that they were Christ's (1 Corinthians 3:1, 9, 16, 23; 1 Corinthians 4:6; 1 Corinthians 6:19-20, etc.). Paul did not think that willful sin dissolved the adoption of a genuine child of God.

Paul's view comports well with Christ's parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32) in which a rebellious, profligate child took his inheritance, went off into a "far country" and wasted it all in raucous living, ended up in a pig pen eating discarded corn husks, and finally returned home penniless, repentant and contrite. At no time in the story did the son actually die; at no time in the story was the son ever not his father's child. The Prodigal's status as a member of his father's family remained unchanged no matter where he went or what he did and he was instantly and joyfully received by his father when he returned.

Like the Prodigal Son, the believers at Corinth remained children of their (Heavenly) Father no matter their conduct. They were not adopted by God because of something in themselves that merited His doing so (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9), but ONLY because they were, by their trust in him, "in Christ" (Galatians 2:20; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 1:1-13). Solely because of their spiritual position in him were they accepted by God and since God is always accepting of Christ, all those in him are also always accepted by God. So, then, there is no danger to the born-again person of salvation lost; their salvation does not depend on them, but on the perfect Savior (John 14:6; Acts 4:12).

Hebrews 10:26-27, then, speaks of the believer who sins willfully and in the process ceases to enjoy the peace-making effect of being "in Christ" who has reconciled them to God through himself (2 Corinthians 4:17-21; Colossians 1:19-22). Only in repentance from, and confession of, their sin can they enjoy all that is theirs in Christ; so long as they persist in the sin they know not to do, they are prevented from experiencing all the benefits of their adoption into God's family and, instead, labor constantly under the feeling that God's wrath will sweep down upon them in vengeful fury. It won't, of course, because of Christ, but God's discipline will certainly work upon all of His wayward children (Hebrews 12:5-11).

You have to take the time and post scriptures and verses as I do, make it easy as I do.

God holds the unrepentant sinner responsible for their sin and will cast them into hell for it. But those who have, by trusting in Christ as their Savior and yielding to him as Lord, become born-again children of God, never again stand under the wrath of God under which the un-adopted person constantly stands.

Romans 5:8-10
8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

John 6:37
37 ...whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 10:28-29
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

 

[for_his_glory]

We all came to Christ with only a mustard seed of faith having no Spiritual knowledge at first. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. We had to learn what faith is, what the hope of our calling is as we learn to stay in the will of God, even learning what that means. We are forever learning, but that comes by the Baptism of Christ for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. River water can not save anyone as it is the blood of Christ that has washed our sins away. The biggest problem is that many who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior have never even heard about a Holy Spirit, Acts 19:1-6. All they knew was John's baptism in water for repentance. By reading those verses on can clearly see there is a difference between John's baptism and the Baptism of Christ for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who is the only one that can teach us all Spiritual truths. The more we grow in that power and authority that is given us through God's grace and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit empowering us the less we will walk in sin and walk more in obedience to the commands of God. A new born baby has to learn how to first crawl, then learns to walk on wobbly legs until they are strengthen as their parents help them, so it is with all of us when we first came to the Lord Christ Jesus as we were weak, but grew stronger everyday in the Spiritual knowledge of what our Father wants us to learn and still learn as no one could ever exhaust the teachings from Genesis to Revelation. We are being perfected everyday as we are no longer on the milk of the word, but that good meat of His word.


Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[Bro.Tan]

We all came to Christ with only a mustard seed of faith having no Spiritual knowledge at first.

I disagree, because Jesus says in Matthew 17: 20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. So if we all came to Christ with only a grain of mustard seed we would all come in having faith, and can move mountain. But that's not the case. Roman Christianity is what fills the world today, and thats fill with paganism and following another Jesus. It takes a lot to walk in this true word of God according as it's written to get that faith of a mustard seed.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. We had to learn what faith is, what the hope of our calling is as we learn to stay in the will of God, even learning what that means. We are forever learning, but that comes by the Baptism of Christ for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. River water can not save anyone as it is the blood of Christ that has washed our sins away. The biggest problem is that many who accept Jesus as Lord and Savior have never even heard about a Holy Spirit, Acts 19:1-6. All they knew was John's baptism in water for repentance. By reading those verses on can clearly see there is a difference between John's baptism and the Baptism of Christ for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who is the only one that can teach us all Spiritual truths. The more we grow in that power and authority that is given us through God's grace and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit empowering us the less we will walk in sin and walk more in obedience to the commands of God. A new born baby has to learn how to first crawl, then learns to walk on wobbly legs until they are strengthen as their parents help them, so it is with all of us when we first came to the Lord Christ Jesus as we were weak, but grew stronger everyday in the Spiritual knowledge of what our Father wants us to learn and still learn as no one could ever exhaust the teachings from Genesis to Revelation. We are being perfected everyday as we are no longer on the milk of the word, but that good meat of His word.


Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[for_his_glory]

I disagree, because Jesus says in Matthew 17: 20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. So if we all came to Christ with only a grain of mustard seed we would all come in having faith, and can move mountain. But that's not the case. Roman Christianity is what fills the world today, and thats fill with paganism and following another Jesus. It takes a lot to walk in this true word of God according as it's written to get that faith of a mustard seed.

Thank you for correcting me on this as the more I thought about this verse the Disciples at that time really did not have faith, but to only believe Jesus as a Prophet sent by God. It would be after His death and resurrection that would know Jesus as Messiah when He came to them in the upper room.

 

[Bro.Tan]

Thank you for correcting me on this as the more I thought about this verse the Disciples at that time really did not have faith, but to only believe Jesus as a Prophet sent by God. It would be after His death and resurrection that would know Jesus as Messiah when He came to them in the upper room.

Praise the Lord and peace in Jesus mighty name.

 

[donadams]

And Jesus came and spake unto them saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the son, and of the Holy Ghost;" (Matthew 28:18-19). These two verses have been mistakenly taught for generations. One mistake religious leaders make is baptizing people without teaching them about Jesus and His doctrine (teaching). Romans 10: verse 17, informs us that faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Therefore, how can you baptize someone in a belief (faith), when the person being baptized, has no knowledge about faith? Contrary to popular beliefs, faith in Jesus is more than calling his name. It’s about knowing the name you are calling on. "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in him whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" (Romans10:13-15).

Only a bible preacher can instruct out of the bible. Jesus warned us that many false prophets have gone out into the world; so, please, make sure that your preacher has been sent by God. You can tell the false prophets by their fruit (deeds); if they are not reading and living the entire bible then do not take heed (listen) to them.

Let us return to the main lesson. In Matthew 28, verse 19, the Lord commands his disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, the son, and the Holy Ghost. This is where religious leaders make their second mistake concerning baptism. They (religious leaders) will submerge (bring under water) the same person three times, to uphold the commandment to baptize in the name of the Father, son, and Holy Ghost. However, "Father", and "Son" are not names, but are a status to describe one's position in life; and the Holy Ghost is slang for the Holy Spirit. Jesus said to be baptized "in the name of the Father, son, and Holy Ghost", so, let's find someone with a name that relates to all three. Jesus Christ said, "I am come in my father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." (John 5:43). This scripture informs us that both the father and the son's name is Jesus, because Jesus said that he came in his father's name. Jesus also, said; "But the comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (John 14:26). The Lord has spoken! We are to baptize, and be baptized in the name of Jesus. There are no exceptions!

Pay close attention to Jesus is saying in John 20: 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. So now let’s get an example of how to do this Sisters and Brothers.

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, "repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38). “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.” Romans 6:3-4,

If we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4:4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must repent, give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord.

Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

"And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16).

What about infant baptism?

 

[for_his_glory]

What about infant baptism?

Show us where infant baptism is found in the Bible. Many try to use Genesis 17:7; Deuteronomy 29:10-12; and Matthew 19:14; Acts 16:15; but those scriptures speak about God's covenant, not baptism. What sin would an infant have to repent of or how would an infant even be able to confess any sin. I have seen in some Churches where the parents would dedicate their baby to the charge of the whole church being the body of Christ to help train up their child in the way they should go so they would not depart from it, Proverbs 22.6. So many read into the scriptures things that are not there. I and all seven of my siblings were baptized as an infant, but what was our sin only being a few months old.

 

[Bro.Tan]

What about infant baptism?

The Bible does not support this; in fact the Bible only gives examples of men and women being baptized. You have to understand that coming under the blood Jesus is big time covenant between God and that individual. A little child or infant can't hold that type of agreement for salvation. Little Children don't have license to drive before a certain age nor can buy liquor etc, but people expect that type of responsibilities on a infant or child, when it comes to the word of God that wouldn't be right. In the scriptures it's written Proverb 22: 6 Train up a child in the way he should go: And when he is old, he will not depart from it. So you train a child in the word of God and when that child is of age and ready, then he or she will get baptize in the name of Jesus.

Also the Lord hold an individual responsible at the age of twenty years old. Let's take a look at this in Numbers 14: 8 Say unto them, As truly as I live, saith the LORD, as ye have spoken in mine ears, so will I do to you: 29 your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me, 31 But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised. 32 But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness. 33 And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness. 34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

 

[donadams]

Show us where infant baptism is found in the Bible. Many try to use Genesis 17:7; Deuteronomy 29:10-12; and Matthew 19:14; Acts 16:15; but those scriptures speak about God's covenant, not baptism. What sin would an infant have to repent of or how would an infant even be able to confess any sin. I have seen in some Churches where the parents would dedicate their baby to the charge of the whole church being the body of Christ to help train up their child in the way they should go so they would not depart from it, Proverbs 22.6. So many read into the scriptures things that are not there. I and all seven of my siblings were baptized as an infant, but what was our sin only being a few months old.

1st if there is no sin then there is no need to repent, but infants are still apart from Christ and His kingdom (Jn 3:5) and are devoid of grace and need baptism!
2nd it is in scripture (acts 2:38:39) “this promise (see ez 36:25-27) it to you AND to your children”.

Thks

 

[donadams]

The Bible does not support this; in fact the Bible only gives examples of men and women being baptized. You have to understand that coming under the blood Jesus is big time covenant between God and that individual. A little child or infant can't hold that type of agreement for salvation. Little Children don't have license to drive before a certain age nor can buy liquor etc, but people expect that type of responsibilities on a infant or child, when it comes to the word of God that wouldn't be right. In the scriptures it's written Proverb 22: 6 Train up a child in the way he should go: And when he is old, he will not depart from it. So you train a child in the word of God and when that child is of age and ready, then he or she will get baptize in the name of Jesus.

Also the Lord hold an individual responsible at the age of twenty years old. Let's take a look at this in Numbers 14: 8 Say unto them, As truly as I live, saith the LORD, as ye have spoken in mine ears, so will I do to you: 29 your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me, 31 But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised. 32 But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness. 33 And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness. 34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

1st if there is no sin then there is no need to repent, but infants are still apart from Christ and His kingdom (Jn 3:5) and are devoid of grace and need baptism!
2nd it is in scripture (acts 2:38:39) “this promise (see ez 36:25-27) it to you AND to your children”.

For 2000 yrs the apostolic church has always baptized infants!

Note: There is no personal covenant or salvation, all those who by faith and baptism are in the new covenant in union by the one mediator and grace with God and His saints. Jude 1:3 (in common)
Thks

 

[Bro.Tan]

1st if there is no sin then there is no need to repent, but infants are still apart from Christ and His kingdom (Jn 3:5) and are devoid of grace and need baptism!
2nd it is in scripture (acts 2:38:39) “this promise (see ez 36:25-27) it to you AND to your children”.

For 2000 yrs the apostolic church has always baptized infants!

Note: There is no personal covenant or salvation, all those who by faith and baptism are in the new covenant in union by the one mediator and grace with God and His saints. Jude 1:3 (in common)
Thks

If you can be so kind and show me in the Bible an example of children or infants, getting baptize in the name of Jesus, then maybe that will help me with some understanding in your point.

 

[donadams]

If you can be so kind and show me in the Bible an example of children or infants, getting baptize in the name of Jesus, then maybe that will help me with some understanding in your point.

No we MUST be baptized in the form of Matt 28:19

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 

[donadams]

If you can be so kind and show me in the Bible an example of children or infants, getting baptize in the name of Jesus, then maybe that will help me with some understanding in your point.

Infant Baptism / baptism

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say adults only or except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say adults only or except infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for adult baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for adult baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!

Acts 1:8
Witness of Augustine!

It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

“The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (ibid., 2:27:43).

“Baptism washes away all, absolutely all, our sins, whether of deed, word, or thought, whether sins original or added, whether knowingly or unknowingly contracted” (Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 3:3:5 [A.D. 420]).

“This is the meaning of the great sacrament of baptism, which is celebrated among us: all who attain to this grace die thereby to sin—as he himself [Jesus] is said to have died to sin because he died in the flesh (that is, ‘in the likeness of sin’)—and they are thereby alive by being reborn in the baptismal font, just as he rose again from the sepulcher. This is the case no matter what the age of the body. For whether it be a newborn infant or a decrepit old man—since no one should be barred from baptism—just so, there is no one who does not die to sin in baptism. Infants die to original sin only; adults, to all those sins which they have added, through their evil living, to the burden they brought with them at birth” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Love 13[41] [A.D. 421]).

 

[Bro.Tan]

Infant Baptism / baptism

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say adults only or except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say adults only or except infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for adult baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for adult baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!

Acts 1:8
Witness of Augustine!

It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

“The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (ibid., 2:27:43).

“Baptism washes away all, absolutely all, our sins, whether of deed, word, or thought, whether sins original or added, whether knowingly or unknowingly contracted” (Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 3:3:5 [A.D. 420]).

“This is the meaning of the great sacrament of baptism, which is celebrated among us: all who attain to this grace die thereby to sin—as he himself [Jesus] is said to have died to sin because he died in the flesh (that is, ‘in the likeness of sin’)—and they are thereby alive by being reborn in the baptismal font, just as he rose again from the sepulcher. This is the case no matter what the age of the body. For whether it be a newborn infant or a decrepit old man—since no one should be barred from baptism—just so, there is no one who does not die to sin in baptism. Infants die to original sin only; adults, to all those sins which they have added, through their evil living, to the burden they brought with them at birth” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Love 13[41] [A.D. 421]).

I appreciate you taking the time and putting forth those scriptures and verses, but I have to disagree. A infant or a child have no idea about sin at that age. The Bible does not support this; in fact the Bible only gives examples of men and women being baptized. You have to understand that coming under the blood Jesus is big time covenant between God and that individual. A little child or infant can't hold that type of agreement for salvation. Remember Paul says in Roman 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

I guess you would put this type of understanding on an infant or child. In the scriptures it's written Proverb 22: 6 Train up a child in the way he should go: And when he is old, he will not depart from it. So you train a child in the word of God and when that child is of age and ready, then he or she will get baptize in the name of Jesus.

 

[Bro.Tan]

No we MUST be baptized in the form of Matt 28:19

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

In Matthew 28, verse 19, the Lord commands his disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, the son, and the Holy Ghost. This is where religious leaders make their second mistake concerning baptism. They (religious leaders) will submerge (bring under water) the same person three times, to uphold the commandment to baptize in the name of the Father, son, and Holy Ghost. However, "Father", and "Son" are not names, but are a status to describe one's position in life; and the Holy Ghost is slang for the Holy Spirit. Jesus said to be baptized "in the name of the Father, son, and Holy Ghost", so, let's find someone with a name that relates to all three. Jesus Christ said, "I am come in my father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." (John 5:43). This scripture informs us that both the father and the son's name is Jesus, because Jesus said that he came in his father's name. Jesus also, said; "But the comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." (John 14:26). The Lord has spoken! We are to baptize, and be baptized in the name of Jesus. There are no exceptions!

Pay close attention to Jesus is saying in John 20: 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. So now let’s get an example of how to do this Sisters and Brothers.

"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, "repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38). “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.” Romans 6:3-4,

 

[WIP]

I appreciate you taking the time and putting forth those scriptures and verses, but I have to disagree. A infant or a child have no idea about sin at that age.

Can I assume then that you do not believe God can do His work even in those that don't understand? What about adults with mental disorders? Are they also out of luck? I think God's powerful enough to handle it all.

 

[donadams]

I appreciate you taking the time and putting forth those scriptures and verses, but I have to disagree. A infant or a child have no idea about sin at that age. The Bible does not support this; in fact the Bible only gives examples of men and women being baptized. You have to understand that coming under the blood Jesus is big time covenant between God and that individual. A little child or infant can't hold that type of agreement for salvation. Remember Paul says in Roman 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

I guess you would put this type of understanding on an infant or child. In the scriptures it's written Proverb 22: 6 Train up a child in the way he should go: And when he is old, he will not depart from it. So you train a child in the word of God and when that child is of age and ready, then he or she will get baptize in the name of Jesus.

Not a matter of sin or knowledge of sin but of grace and union with God and his communion of saints thru Christ.

Jn 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

No there is no personal savior no personal or individual covenant!
Only one savior and one covenant for all men! Lk 2:10 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16 all men / Jude 1:3 common salvation

Baptism is in the name of the father, and of the son, and the Holy Spirit not the name of Jesus!

Baptism is justification not salvation

Redemption :
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say adults only or except infants!

1 cor 12:13 “all”

 

[donadams]

If you can be so kind and show me in the Bible an example of children or infants, getting baptize in the name of Jesus, then maybe that will help me with some understanding in your point.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say adults only or except infants!

Where does it say it must be in scripture?

Where does it say “all truths revealed by God are in scripture”?

Apostolic church teaches
Light of the world: Matt 5:14
Pillar of truth: 1 Tim 3:15
Lead apostolic church into all truth: Jn 16:12 then they
Teach all men: Matt 28:18
Hear the apostolic church: Matt 18:17

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Five sola’s ain’t biblical!