The Incomparable Jesus Christ In The Prologue of John

[SolaScriptura]

That's the OT Hebrew bible, which is all the "Scriptures" was referring to, including the Septuigant, which is the Greek translation of the OT. The Latin Vulgate didn't exist yet, neither did the Trinity doctrine at the time when the gospel of John was written and distributed, that's why I argued it should be read and interpreted through the early church's perspective, not our Trinitarian perspective.

I disagree. The Trinity is in the Old Testament and in the New, and no doubt the Writers of the NT knew of the 3 Persons as God, as Paul and John Write on the Deity of Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit. John refers to the Deity of Jesus and Holy Spirit in his Gospel.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I disagree. The Trinity is in the Old Testament and in the New, and no doubt the Writers of the NT knew of the 3 Persons as God, as Paul and John Write on the Deity of Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit. John refers to the Deity of Jesus and Holy Spirit in his Gospel.

Maybe, except they didn't call it trinity, especially not three "persons", and it wasn't established as a super complicated doctrine.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Maybe, except they didn't call it trinity, especially not three "persons", and it wasn't established as a super complicated doctrine.

the Father is a Person in the Gospel of John. Jesus Christ is a Person in the Gospel of John. The Holy Spirit is a Person in the Gospel of John. And the Apostle John believed in One Godhead/Divine Nature.

Later theologians coined the Term Trinity to make it understandable to us mere humans. It is best and only way to understand the God of the Bible. I do not believe that any person who denies the Trinity, will get into heaven

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

the Father is a Person in the Gospel of John. Jesus Christ is a Person in the Gospel of John. The Holy Spirit is a Person in the Gospel of John. And the Apostle John believed in One Godhead/Divine Nature.

Later theologians coined the Term Trinity to make it understandable to us mere humans. It is best and only way to understand the God of the Bible. I do not believe that any person who denies the Trinity, will get into heaven

The problem is the inconsistency in the definition of "person" - is such person a real man of flesh and blood with all phisiological needs? Or a figurative person as a result of anthropomorphism and anthropopathism? If it's the former, then it's not applicable to the Father and the Spirit - "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts;" if it's the latter, then you're denying Jesus's humanity. In 1 John, the most commonly used term is "manifest" - the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us. I have no objection to the trinity doctrine, I only have objection to the word "person". God is manifested as Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, that's it.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

the Father is a Person in the Gospel of John. Jesus Christ is a Person in the Gospel of John. The Holy Spirit is a Person in the Gospel of John. And the Apostle John believed in One Godhead/Divine Nature.

By the way, isn't this kind of circular reasoning? First you develop the trinity theology from the Gospel of John, then you interpret the gospel of John with the trinity theology. That's why I said at the beginning that you gotta think out of the box.

 

[SolaScriptura]

By the way, isn't this kind of circular reasoning? First you develop the trinity theology from the Gospel of John, then you interpret the gospel of John with the trinity theology. That's why I said at the beginning that you gotta think out of the box.

not really, as the Trinity is very much present in the Old Testament, in the very first verse, where the PLURAL, ˒ĕlōhı̂m, is used for the Plurality of Persons in the Divine Godhead. All the Writers of the 66 Books in the Holy Bible, who wrote under the Inspiration of God the Holy Spirit, would have known about God being more than one Person. Which is why John begins his Gospel to show BOTH the Father and Jesus Christ are EQUALLY Almighty God.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

not really, as the Trinity is very much present in the Old Testament, in the very first verse, where the PLURAL, ˒ĕlōhı̂m, is used for the Plurality of Persons in the Divine Godhead. All the Writers of the 66 Books in the Holy Bible, who wrote under the Inspiration of God the Holy Spirit, would have known about God being more than one Person. Which is why John begins his Gospel to show BOTH the Father and Jesus Christ are EQUALLY Almighty God.

Isn't this still circular reasoning? First you go from plural "ĕlōhı̂m" to the trinity doctrine, you wrote a long thesis on that subject, then when I asked about it, you circle back to the plural "ĕlōhı̂m" in Genesis. And the same goes for any other books in the bible, you read everything through the lens of the Trinity, and then you "proof text" the trinity doctrine with quotes from these books. Honestly, I'm not doubting or challenging the validity of the trinity doctrine, I just don't like such logical fallacy. The bible is written under the Inspiration of God the Holy Spirit not because it says so in 2 Tim. 3:16, but because it has been proven true and timeless by its fulfillment throughout history.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Isn't this still circular reasoning? First you go from plural "ĕlōhı̂m" to the trinity doctrine, you wrote a long thesis on that subject, then when I asked about it, you circle back to the plural "ĕlōhı̂m" in Genesis. And the same goes for any other books in the bible, you read everything through the lens of the Trinity, and then you "proof text" the trinity doctrine with quotes from these books. Honestly, I'm not doubting or challenging the validity of the trinity doctrine, I just don't like such logical fallacy. The bible is written under the Inspiration of God the Holy Spirit not because it says so in 2 Tim. 3:16, but because it has been proven true and timeless by its fulfillment throughout history.

My studies are on the Persons in the Trinity. I don't look for passages in the Bible to "support" this, as there are many such in both Testaments

I doubt that many Christians would fully believe that the entire 66 Books in the Bible are Inspired by the Holy Spirit, if 2 Timothy 3:16 were not there. Ask any Bible-believing Christian, why they believe this, and they always first cite this verse. Like the clearest verse in the Bible on the Trinity, is 1 John 5:7, which the devil has tried to remove from this Book. We believe in certain Doctrines, like the Virgin Birth, Resurrection, Second Coming of Jesus Christ, because these are clearly taught in the Bible.

How can you call what I have written from the Bible, "logical fallacy"? This is absurd!

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

How can you call what I have written from the Bible, "logical fallacy"? This is absurd!

What's absurd is eisegetical approach, in particular, interpreting the OT with the NT. If you take the exegetical approach by drawing conclusions from the text in the correct order, then you interpret the NT with the OT, you explain what the Trinity is and how it came from the OT, not the other way around by interpreting the plural "ĕlōhı̂m" with the Trinity doctrine. If you read the bible without comfirmation bias, then the simple summary of Gen. 1 is that God created the world in six days, that's what makes God God - ex nihilo, creator of the world, not any created beings, that's the identity of God. Even if Jesus is there, you don't know it until you reach John 1:1 and unlock the secret. You don't start from John 1:1 and go back to Gen. 1 with your preconceived conclusion drawn from John 1:1.