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The Killing of Dolphins & Elephants

Yes I have Jason, I do cook crabs, and they do go into shock when you put them in that boiling water. I love cooking crabs and making them very very spicy. But yeah I have thought about the way they die a thousand times. I also love lobster tail. I have also thought about putting live worms on a hook and drowning them to get ate,
 
Hey Jason, I was just thinking, do you think that crab and lobster cooking should be banned, because of the way they die ?
 
Trying to stay Christian here, let me just say, My feelings on the subject are well knowed.
 
John_O said:
Trying to stay Christian here, let me just say, My feelings on the subject are well knowed.
John, I don't know how you feel, so how do you feel ?
 
Lewis W said:
Hey Jason, I was just thinking, do you think that crab and lobster cooking should be banned, because of the way they die ?
no, that's the only way, for now , to cook them as the meat becomes mush and unedible if you dont cook them in like manner. I personally dont eat a whole lot of crabs and lobster, but i dont want to see a econazi/Tree huggin/ you got to be a vegan type of christian either. No animal that's used for food dies without pain. If that offends you then become a vegan but dont call it a biblical doctrine either cause Jesus killed fish and ate them, did he not. If God calls it good then who are we to argue, now then we should care for the animals, yes.
But i'm sick and tired of the radical enviromentalist who no moral problem with abortion, but shudder at the thought of men who kill for food, or become downright violent if you decided to shoot your dog to put out of his misery, ie he has rabies, lashemeinous, terminal disease, etc, some states that legal, I wouldnt but my wife has done that to her mother's animals simply because let's stay alive even if they are blind, cant walk, or dying slowly of cancer. Many people do this because of money reasons and not to be cruel, think about it how would the movie "old yeller" end if it were made today.Would we see the gun being used at all, why that was shown in the movie(the shot itself) you could see the father aiming and firing the the weapon(a 22?),but the dog wasnt seen falling down dead, but you get the idea.

We have become more caring about the animals than those who are made in the image of the LORD, and I think that's wrong, not that animal compassion is wrong, but we must look at the world the way the Lord does. I fail to do that as well. sorry to rant,
\
jason
 
That was a great post Jason, and you are right people do care about animals today more than they do a aborted baby. Now back to Michael Vic again I wonder what kind of protest, and NFL boycotting will take place when he returns to the NFL, even though he has done his time, some people are not willing to let his past crime go. But to those people I say what about abortion, or partial birth, abortion, where the baby is pulled part of the way out and a probe stuck in the base of the skull. That is why I have no problem when a abortion doctor gets killed. Sorry for going off track, I got angry.
 
Lewis W said:
That was a great post Jason, and you are right people do care about animals today more than they do a aborted baby. Now back to Michael Vic again I wonder what kind of protest, and NFL boycotting will take place when he returns to the NFL, even though he has done his time, some people are not willing to let his past crime go. But to those people I say what about abortion, or partial birth, abortion, where the baby is pulled part of the way out and a probe stuck in the base of the skull. That is why I have no problem when a abortion doctor gets killed. Sorry for going off track, I got angry.
while, I understand your sentiment,Lewis W, you comes across with hate, and yes i get like that too. However, we should let the Lord avenge, and pray for the sinner to repent, like murder , an abortionist can be forgiven. It sickens me that we humans have come to this as this is the result of a world gone mad, and without the acknowledgement of the Saviour Jesus. :verysick :verysick
 
We have become more caring about the animals than those who are made in the image of the LORD, and I think that's wrong, not that animal compassion is wrong, but we must look at the world the way the Lord does. I fail to do that as well. sorry to rant,
Good point Jason. My :twocents ... Both are important in the eyes of God and in the order you pointed out. God wants us to treat each other this way:

Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

He's teaching us right relationships here. That teaches us how to have a right relationship with HIM as well. The other side of the coin shows us that we should treat HIS creation in much the same way. HE did create them and did say "it was good."

HE also says this:

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

The key word there is dominion and I as have stated in the past, dominion takes on a certain level of responsibility. If we can't care for HIS lower forms of creation in a responsible manner, what does that say about how we treat each other, which takes on a larger responsibility?

The two go hand in hand. :amen God gave the Hebrews laws on how they should kill their livestock. Why is that so? What was HE trying to teach them?
 
The problems today is there are few " farmers Johns" so to speak, the old time guys who raised there cows chickens ect ect ,giving them a decent life, before slaughter. But today theres such a demand that now there factory farms. Nothing that lives should live like that. Really is hell on earth for them. Many have been busted by undercover video. Have you seen the HSUS video of the bulldozer pushing the sock cow up into the truck?? The cow was so sick it sound not even stand up. :shame

Factory farming is an attitude that regards animals and the natural world merely as commodities to be exploited for profit. In animal agriculture, this attitude has led to institutionalized animal cruelty, massive environmental destruction and resource depletion, and animal and human health risks.

Record numbers of chickens and turkeys are being raised and killed for meat in the U.S. every year. These birds are typically crowded by the thousands into huge, factory-like warehouses where they can barely move. Each chicken is given less than half a square foot of space, while turkeys are each given less than three square feet. Shortly after hatching, both chickens and turkeys have the ends of their beaks cut off, and turkeys also have the ends of their toes clipped off. These mutilations are performed without anesthesia, ostensibly to reduce injuries that result when stressed birds are driven to fighting.

Record numbers of chickens and turkeys are being raised and killed for meat in the U.S. every year. Nearly ten billion chickens and over a quarter billion turkeys are hatched in the U.S. annually. These birds are typically crowded by the thousands into huge, factory-like warehouses where they can barely move. Each chicken is given less than half a square foot of space, while turkeys are each given less than three square feet. Shortly after hatching, both chickens and turkeys have the ends of their beaks cut off, and turkeys also have the ends of their toes clipped off. These mutilations are performed without anesthesia, ostensibly to reduce injuries that result when stressed birds are driven to fighting.

Today's "broiler" (meat) chickens have been genetically altered to grow twice as fast and twice as large as their ancestors. Pushed beyond their biological limits, hundreds of millions of chickens die every year before reaching slaughter weight at 6 weeks of age. An industry journal explains that "broilers [chickens] now grow so rapidly that the heart and lungs are not developed well enough to support the remainder of the body, resulting in congestive heart failure and tremendous death losses." Modern broiler chickens also experience crippling leg disorders, as their legs are not capable of supporting their abnormally heavy bodies. Confined in unsanitary, disease-ridden factory farms, the birds also frequently succumb to heat prostration, infectious diseases, and cancer.

Like meat-type chickens, commercial turkeys also suffer from serious physical malformations wrought by genetic manipulation. In addition to having been altered to grow quickly and unnaturally large, commercial turkeys have been genetically manipulated to have extremely large breasts, in order to meet consumer demand for breast meat. As a result, turkeys cannot mount and reproduce naturally, so their sole means of reproduction is artificial insemination. And similar to broiler chickens, factory-farmed turkeys are prone to heart disease and leg injuries as a consequence of their grossly-overweight bodies. An industry journal laments that:

Turkeys have been bred to grow faster and heavier but their skeletons haven't kept pace, which causes 'cowboy legs'. Commonly, the turkeys have problems standing and fall and are trampled on or seek refuge under feeders, leading to bruises and downgradings as well as culled or killed birds.

Chickens and turkeys are taken to the slaughterhouse in crates stacked on the backs of open trucks. During transport, the birds are not protected from weather conditions, and a percentage of the birds are expected to die en route. Birds freeze to death in winter, or die from heat stress and suffocation in warm weather. It is “cheaper†for the industry to transport the birds in open crates without adequate protection, despite high mortality rates. Upon arrival at the slaughterhouse, the birds are either pulled individually from their crates, or the crates are lifted off the truck, often with a crane or forklift, and the birds are dumped onto a conveyor belt. As the birds are unloaded, some miss the conveyor belt and fall onto the ground. Slaughterhouse workers intent upon 'processing' thousands of birds every hour have neither the time nor the inclination to pick up individuals who fall through the cracks, and these birds suffer grim deaths. Some die after being crushed by machinery or vehicles operating near the unloading area, while others may die of starvation or exposure days, or even weeks, later.

Birds inside the slaughterhouse suffer an equally gruesome fate. Upon entering the facility, fully conscious birds are hung by their feet from metal shackles on a moving rail. Although poultry are specifically excluded from the federal Humane Slaughter Act (which requires that animals be stunned before they are slaughtered), many slaughterplants first stun the birds in an electrified water bath in order to immobilize them and expedite assembly line killing.
 
A standard beef slaughterhouse kills 250 cattle every hour. The high speed of the assembly line makes it increasingly difficult to treat animals with any semblance of humaneness. A Meat & Poultry article states, "Good handling is extremely difficult if equipment is 'maxed out' all the time. It is impossible to have a good attitude toward cattle if employees have to constantly overexert themselves, and thus transfer all that stress right down to the animals, just to keep up with the line."

Prior to being hung up by their back legs and bled to death, cattle are supposed to be rendered unconscious, as stipulated by the federal Humane Slaughter Act. This 'stunning' is usually done by a mechanical blow to the head. However, the procedure is terribly imprecise, and inadequate stunning is inevitable. As a result, conscious animals are often hung upside down, kicking and struggling, while a slaughterhouse worker makes another attempt to render them unconscious. Eventually, the animals will be "stuck" in the throat with a knife, and blood will gush from their bodies whether or not they are unconscious.

This is detailed in an April 2001 Washington Post article, which describes typical slaughterplant conditions:

The cattle were supposed to be dead before they got to Moreno. But too often they weren't.

They blink. They make noises, he said softly. The head moves, the eyes are wide and looking around. Still Moreno would cut. On bad days, he says, dozens of animals reached his station clearly alive and conscious. Some would survive as far as the tail cutter, the belly ripper, the hide puller. They die, said Moreno, piece by piece...

"In plants all over the United States, this happens on a daily basis," said Lester Friedlander, a veterinarian and formerly chief government inspector at a Pennsylvania hamburger plant. "I've seen it happen. And I've talked to other veterinarians. They feel it's out of control."

The U.S. Department of Agriculture oversees the treatment of animals in meat plants, but enforcement of the law varies dramatically. While a few plants have been forced to halt production for a few hours because of alleged animal cruelty, such sanctions are rare.

Reaction to the Washington Post investigative piece and others like it precipitated a Congressional resolution reiterating the importance of the Humane Slaughter Act, but to date, there is little if any indication that the situation for animals in slaughterhouses has appreciably improved.
 
By two to three weeks of age, 10% of the piglets will have died. Those who survive are taken away from their mothers and crowded into pens with metal bars and concrete floors. A headline from National Hog Farmer magazine advises, "Crowding Pigs Pays...", and this is exemplified by the intense overcrowding in every stage of hog confinement systems. Pigs will live this way, packed into giant, warehouse-like sheds, until they reach a slaughter weight of 250 pounds at 6 months old.

The air inside hog factories is so polluted with dust, dander and noxious gases from the animals' waste that workers who are exposed for just a few hours per day are at high risk for bronchitis, asthma, sinusitis, organic dust toxic syndrome (ODTS) and acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS). Unlike these workers, the pigs have no escape from this toxic air, and roughly half of all pigs that die between weaning and slaughter succumb to respiratory disease.

Poor air quality, extreme close-quarters confinement and unsanitary living conditions combine to make diseases such as porcine reproductive and respiratory syndrome (PRRS), swine influenza virus (SIV) and salmonellosis a serious threat to animal welfare.

In addition to their direct effects on animal health, several viruses are known to suppress pigs' immune systems, leading to greater risk from opportunistic bacteria which further degrade health and result in on-farm deaths. These viral infections frequently go undiagnosed because they are masked by the overlying bacterial disease and testing is expensive.

The overcrowding and confinement is unnatural and stress-producing since pigs are actually very clean animals. If they are given sufficient space, pigs are careful not to soil the areas where they sleep or eat. But in factory farms, they are forced to live in their own feces, urine and vomit and even amid the corpses of other pigs.

In addition to overcrowded housing, sows and pigs also endure extreme crowding in transportation, resulting in rampant suffering and deaths


Nice life huh?

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248 ... hogpen.jpg
 
God NEVER meant for his animals to be treated THAT way!
I have been into animal rights/ rescue for 20 years and will continue to do so, only thing is now I will only do things the legal way. That was not always the case in the past.
 
John... :amen I agree 100%. I believe with a right attitude and some outcry from the general public, alternative means of raising livestock can be implemented and be productive too. It may cost a bit more at first but in time the cost should stabilize. But how do you get big businesses to change their philosophy and how do you get enough people to change their habits as well? :confused

Read some of this when you get some time:

http://books.google.com/books?id=4lSplJ ... q=&f=false

Good book. I have it. May be tough to read because of the way it raises your level of conscience awareness... or is it conscious awareness? ;)
 
a part of solution could be, pay the farmers who we pay not to grow to raise cattle and slaughter them more humanely. We must also consider weening those farmers eventually of the government trough.

jason
 
Vic C. said:
John... :amen I agree 100%. I believe with a right attitude and some outcry from the general public, alternative means of raising livestock can be implemented and be productive too. It may cost a bit more at first but in time the cost should stabilize. But how do you get big businesses to change their philosophy and how do you get enough people to change their habits as well? :confused

I have seen things done to these animals that would make a Billy goat puke! Also have seen criminal charges brought against some factory farm workers. for those things to! :thumb

If this works LOL. ( might have to copy and paste) but It tell's you all about me. All the groups I belong to. I been a member since 2004
care2connect is an awesome site.

http://www.care2.com/c2c/people/profile ... =715942321
 
All the slaughter houses are gone in Philadelphia, there use to be a pig slaughter house right directly across the street from my elementary school, and it seemed like those pigs knew that they were going to die. And also there was a chicken store about 3 blocks from us, and I would go there with my grand mom, and she would point to the chicken that she wanted and it was killed defeathered gutted and on the dinner table by 5. But there are no more such places here in Philly anymore. There are still a lot of horses though, lots of horses.
 
The last domestic slaughterhouse closed in 2007. American horses are now being sent to slaughter in Canada and Mexico. :mad
 
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