The Land Promises to Israel were Completed Long, Long Ago.

[Free]

There have been several violations of ToS 1.1 and 1.3. Please show each other respect and grant others the courtesy to be understood and acknowledge their views. As best as one is capable, speak truth in love. Address the issue, not the person. Do not make derogatory personal remarks or you will be removed from the thread.

Thank you.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Can you tell me if I've proven, to your satisfaction, that the Land Promises were completed to Israel with the passage that I presented?

I’m convinced.

 

[theWind]

The nations outside the promised land take up arms with Gog and attempt to overthrow Christ's kingdom.But God destroys them.

There is no Promised Land anymore. The Bible plainly teaches that the Land Promised to Israel was given to them and has been taken away long, long ago.

There is no land anywhere on the earth that is promised to Israel. They lost that land long ago.

The earth will not be present after Christ returns as it will be fully destroyed.

There is no land that is now Israel's heritage anywhere on the earth according to Scripture. Not my opinion, but Scripture's teaching.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Very simple answer. No, that takes place at Christ's return, just exactly as the Bible says it does.
John 5:28
1 Cor. 15:21-23

You're assuming, out of misunderstanding the Bible, that it already happened.

Preterism is a very poor doctrine that has no leg to stand upon in Scripture.

Only those who are fooled, due to lack of knowledge of God's Word, or those who are intentionally leading astray, make these claims.

You'll have to quote me claiming that if that's your next, very predictable, move.

Your the one who claimed revelation 20 is happening now.

"What you are seeing described in Rev. 20 is describing this time now."

Now you say preterism is a very poor doctrine when you the one claiming revelation 20 is describing now when in fact it is yet future.

PS
The preterist in post 62 agrees with you if that makes you feel more better.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

There is no Promised Land anymore. The Bible plainly teaches that the Land Promised to Israel was given to them and has been taken away long, long ago.

There is no land anywhere on the earth that is promised to Israel. They lost that land long ago.

The earth will not be present after Christ returns as it will be fully destroyed.

There is no land that is now Israel's heritage anywhere on the earth according to Scripture. Not my opinion, but Scripture's teaching.

Scripture does not say the promised land is promised to Israel.

The word of God says the promised land is promised to Abraham and his seed for an everlasting possession.

Everlasting is not 10 or 20 years.
Everlasting is not 50 or 60 years
Everlasting is not 1000 years.

Genesis 17:8
The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

The whole land of Canaan is given to Abraham as an everlasting possession.We are talking about Abraham here.A man who will receive everlasting life soon as he is resurrected out of the tomb of the patriarchs.

Now you have stated that that everlasting promise to Abraham is no longer in affect because that promise to Abraham was a conditional promise which Abraham LOST due to disobedience.These are your words below

"That was a conditional promise and they LOST the land due to disobedience."

Now I'm asking you,how did Abraham disobey God(that according to you)caused Abraham to lose the promise God made to him concerning the land?

We are talking about the promises made to Abraham ,not to the other people whom you believe are Abraham's seed.
We are talking about the promise God made to Abraham himself.

 

[theWind]

Your the one who claimed revelation 20 is happening now.

"What you are seeing described in Rev. 20 is describing this time now."

Now you say preterism is a very poor doctrine when you the one claiming revelation 20 is describing now when in fact it is yet future.

PS
The preterist in post 62 agrees with you if that makes you feel more better.

Another swing and a miss. OOPS. I'm gonna get dinged because I said you missed. YIKES.

Here's a refersher:

God made good on all the Land Promises.

"And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which He sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein. And the Lord gave them rest round about, according to all that He sware unto their fathers: and there stood no a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand. There failed (nothing) of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass."
Joshua 21:43-45

Were you wanting to see that additional passages yet or are we still in stubborn denial?

OOPS.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Another swing and a miss. OOPS. I'm gonna get dinged because I said you missed. YIKES.

Here's a refersher:

God made good on all the Land Promises.

"And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which He sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein. And the Lord gave them rest round about, according to all that He sware unto their fathers: and there stood no a man of all their enemies before them; the Lord delivered all their enemies into their hand. There failed (nothing) of any good thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass."
Joshua 21:43-45

Were you wanting to see that additional passages yet or are we still in stubborn denial?

OOPS.

I take that as you admit you was wrong about revelation 20..These things which you claimed are taking place now.
Revelation
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[theWind]

Scripture does not say the promised land is promised to Israel.

The word of God says the promised land is promised to Abraham and his seed for an everlasting possession.

Everlasting is not 10 or 20 years.
Everlasting is not 50 or 60 years
Everlasting is not 1000 years.

Genesis 17:8
The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

The whole land of Canaan is given to Abraham as an everlasting possession.We are talking about Abraham here.A man who will receive everlasting life soon as he is resurrected out of the tomb of the patriarchs.

Now you have stated that that everlasting promise to Abraham is no longer in affect because that promise to Abraham was a conditional promise which Abraham LOST due to disobedience.These are your words below

"That was a conditional promise and they LOST the land due to disobedience."

Now I'm asking you,how did Abraham disobey God(that according to you)caused Abraham to lose the promise God made to him concerning the land?

We are talking about the promises made to Abraham ,not to the other people whom you believe are Abraham's seed.
We are talking about the promise God made to Abraham himself.

That was only if they obeyed God and God didn't forget that He was going to destroy the world on the Last Day there.

Some words like ALL and FOREVER and EVERLASTING have been well-proven to mean not quite what we take them as.

Here's some more for you, though. I know you're enjoying this.

"And behold this day I am going the way of all the earth (passing away): and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the Lord your God spake concerning you, and not one thing hath failed thereof. "
Joshua 23:14

More proof that the Land Promise was entirely fuliflled.

"Take good heed therefore unto yourselves, that ye love the Lord your God. Else if ye ... go back, and cleave unto the remnant of these nations, ... know for a certainty that the Lord you God will no more (drive them out) ... but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the Lord your God hath given you. ... Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the Lord your God promised you; so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things, until He have destroyed you from off this good land which the Lord your God hath given you."
Joshua 13:11-13

And here we see not only that the Land was fully given and received, but that there are conditions to keeping the land. (Shocker) And what happens if they do not fully obey these conditions?

Yep.

We know that after that warning they misbehaved and went and lost it all. Every bit of it.

 

[theWind]

I take that as you admit you was wrong about revelation 20..These things which you claimed are taking place now.
Revelation
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

God's kingdom is taking place now. It ends right here in 1 Cor. 15:24. See that?

There ya go.

The Land Promises happened thousands of years ago. They were given, received and lost .... long, long ago.

 

[theWind]

Jesus seems to believe that land belongs to him.

Mark 12:7
But the tenants said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’


Paul seems to believe it belongs to Christ.

Gal 3:16
The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.


Are you positive Jesus is not the heir of the promised land?After all,God said he would give it to Abraham and his seed for an everlasting possession.Everlasting is a long long time.

Mathew 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.


I hope you don't get upset if God keeps the promise he made to Abraham to give him that land so that Abraham can live there forever.

Genesis 17:8
And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Ohhhh, you still think the Kingdom of Heaven is Palestine.

Hmmm. Wow.

Yeah, that's a doozy.

I've tried to help clear some things up, but .... yeah.

God bless you.

 

[Charlie24]

God's kingdom is taking place now. It ends right here in 1 Cor. 15:24. See that?

There ya go.

The Land Promises happened thousands of years ago. They were given, received and lost .... long, long ago.

I have to disagree that Israel has received the land promise in the way that He promised it to Abraham. True, that Israel did take the land and possessed it, it's plainly written in Scripture. Through disobedience they lost it.

But God promised Abraham that the land would be "an everlasting possession."

Gen. 17:8
"And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

God looked into the future and seen the day of Israel's salvation, Paul said, "and all Israel will be saved."

The land promise is still a future event to be fulfilled. It takes place when Israel comes to Christ as a nation, then the promise to Abraham will be fulfilled, "an everlasting possession."

 

[Shilohsfoal]

That was only if they obeyed God and God didn't forget that He was going to destroy the world on the Last Day there.

Some words like ALL and FOREVER and EVERLASTING have been well-proven to mean not quite what we take them as.

Here's some more for you, though. I know you're enjoying this.

"And behold this day I am going the way of all the earth (passing away): and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the Lord your God spake concerning you, and not one thing hath failed thereof. "
Joshua 23:14

More proof that the Land Promise was entirely fuliflled.

"Take good heed therefore unto yourselves, that ye love the Lord your God. Else if ye ... go back, and cleave unto the remnant of these nations, ... know for a certainty that the Lord you God will no more (drive them out) ... but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the Lord your God hath given you. ... Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the Lord your God promised you; so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things, until He have destroyed you from off this good land which the Lord your God hath given you."
Joshua 13:11-13

And here we see not only that the Land was fully given and received, but that there are conditions to keeping the land. (Shocker) And what happens if they do not fully obey these conditions?

Yep.

We know that after that warning they misbehaved and went and lost it all. Every bit of it.

We are not talking about the people you believe are the children of Abraham .We are talking about Abraham himself.I will post the question which you ignored again here.
I have highlighted the question again so you may see it.

Scripture does not say the promised land is promised to Israel.

The word of God says the promised land is promised to Abraham and his seed for an everlasting possession.

Everlasting is not 10 or 20 years.
Everlasting is not 50 or 60 years
Everlasting is not 1000 years.

Genesis 17:8
The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

The whole land of Canaan is given to Abraham as an everlasting possession.We are talking about Abraham here.A man who will receive everlasting life soon as he is resurrected out of the tomb of the patriarchs.

Now you have stated that that everlasting promise to Abraham is no longer in affect because that promise to Abraham was a conditional promise which Abraham LOST due to disobedience.These are your words below

"That was a conditional promise and they LOST the land due to disobedience."

Now I'm asking you,how did Abraham disobey God(that according to you)caused Abraham to lose the promise God made to him concerning the land?

We are talking about the promises made to Abraham ,not to the other people whom you believe are Abraham's seed.
We are talking about the promise God made to Abraham himself.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

God's kingdom is taking place now. It ends right here in 1 Cor. 15:24. See that?

There ya go.

The Land Promises happened thousands of years ago. They were given, received and lost .... long, long ago.

Revelation 20 states that the resurrection of the saints who had died are the ones living in that land in revelation 20.

So when are you saying Christ came and resurrected those saints?

Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Ohhhh, you still think the Kingdom of Heaven is Palestine.

Hmmm. Wow.

Yeah, that's a doozy.

I've tried to help clear some things up, but .... yeah.

God bless you.

The word of God calls it Canaan,the land of Israel,the land of the Lord,the pasturelands of God,the kingdom of heaven.

Genesis 17:8
The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

You don't call it by the names given in scripture.

 

[Highway54]

There are words in the Bible that don't mean exactly what they say.

All = doesn't mean every single human being ever.

Forever = means until the end of the world - which is the destruction at Christ's return.

Very easy to prove this.

"... the day cometh that shall burn as an oven; ..."
Mal. 4:1
"... Jesus will be revealed ... in flaming fire taking vengeance ..."
2 Thess. 1:7-8
"... the mountains quake ... the hills melt, and the earth is burned at His presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein."
Nah. 1:5
"... the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, ..."
2 Pet. 3:10-11
"... all the earth shall be devoured with the fire ..."
Zeph. 3:8

Very true, that is why it must be used as a whole, for understanding. The earth was created perfect as are all of God's creations, and there is no need to create a new one, therefore it is rather easy to ascertain that the earth that is destroyed is the corrupt satanic system Dan 2:44

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Romans 9:8

In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
-----------
There are some who believe the promises made to Abraham and his offspring were made to his physical descendents and those promises were fulfilled in them.But they are not regarded as the children of Abraham.

 

[theWind]

I have to disagree that Israel has received the land promise in the way that He promised it to Abraham. True, that Israel did take the land and possessed it, it's plainly written in Scripture. Through disobedience they lost it.

But God promised Abraham that the land would be "an everlasting possession."

Gen. 17:8
"And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

God looked into the future and seen the day of Israel's salvation, Paul said, "and all Israel will be saved."

The land promise is still a future event to be fulfilled. It takes place when Israel comes to Christ as a nation, then the promise to Abraham will be fulfilled, "an everlasting possession."

There are many who debate Christian concepts who will naively hold fast to one single verse at the expense of the entirety of the rest of Scripture.

This is not how sound doctrine is established, nor how we understand the Bible's Truths properly.

I can take any verse in the Bible and create an entire doctrine around that one single verse with limited wording and questionable word definitions, language uncertainties, etc.

The only way to understand the Bible properly is to weigh any and all assumptions against the weight of Scriptue as a whole.

The Bible says God is love. Does it not?

It also says countless times throughout the book of Psalms and others that God HATES sinners. So do we make two camps and face them off in an endless debate that has no end? Of course not. We take the weight of the Bible as a whole to solve the issue.

All God's promises are conditional. I will re-post what I have already posted to show that the Israelites did not meet God's conditions and lost that land. Regardless of what God said initially, if they have not met their part of the agreement, the Promise is forfeited.

"Take good heed therefore unto yourselves, that ye love the Lord your God. Else if ye ... go back, and cleave unto the remnant of these nations, ... know for a certainty that the Lord your God will no more (drive them out) ... but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the Lord your God hath given you. ... Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the Lord your God promised you; so shall the Lord bring upon you all evil things, until He have destroyed you from off this good land which the Lord your God hath given you."
Joshua 13:11-13

Israel lost the land in the following months and years of their disobedience after this declaration was made by Joshua.

That is not even debated.

 

[theWind]

We are not talking about the people you believe are the children of Abraham .We are talking about Abraham himself.I will post the question which you ignored again here.
I have highlighted the question again so you may see it.

Scripture does not say the promised land is promised to Israel.

The word of God says the promised land is promised to Abraham and his seed for an everlasting possession.

Everlasting is not 10 or 20 years.
Everlasting is not 50 or 60 years
Everlasting is not 1000 years.

Genesis 17:8
The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

The whole land of Canaan is given to Abraham as an everlasting possession.We are talking about Abraham here.A man who will receive everlasting life soon as he is resurrected out of the tomb of the patriarchs.

Now you have stated that that everlasting promise to Abraham is no longer in affect because that promise to Abraham was a conditional promise which Abraham LOST due to disobedience.These are your words below

"That was a conditional promise and they LOST the land due to disobedience."

Now I'm asking you,how did Abraham disobey God(that according to you)caused Abraham to lose the promise God made to him concerning the land?

We are talking about the promises made to Abraham ,not to the other people whom you believe are Abraham's seed.
We are talking about the promise God made to Abraham himself.

You can repeat your question 20 times if you like. It is a moot point.

You are not the judge of God Almighty. You do not choose how He fulfills His promises.

Who did God give the land to?

"And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which He sware to give unto their fathers (including Abraham); and they possessed it and dwelt therein."
Joshua 21:43

Was this sufficient for completing God's promise?

"There failed nothing of any ... thing which the Lord had spoken unto the house of Israel (including Abraham); all came to pass."
Joshua 21:45

All that was promised came to pass.

All .... that was promised came to pass.

Unsure?

"Thou art the Lord the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forth ... and gavest him the name of Abraham; ... and madest a covenant with him to give the land of the Canaanites, ... to his seed, and hast performed Thy words; for Thou art righteous: "
Nehemiah 9:7-8

That should clear it up.

 

[theWind]

Romans 9:8

In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
-----------
There are some who believe the promises made to Abraham and his offspring were made to his physical descendents and those promises were fulfilled in them.But they are not regarded as the children of Abraham.

You're purposely mixing two different concepts here.

Paul is not discussing anything to do with the Land Promises of the book of Joshua in the New Testament here.

The people who were promised the land were fully paid what they were owed. Post #78 clears that up nicely.

 

[theWind]

The word of God calls it Canaan,the land of Israel,the land of the Lord,the pasturelands of God,the kingdom of heaven.

Genesis 17:8
The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

You don't call it by the names given in scripture.

Sorry, but you're confused. Bless you.

The Promised Land is certainly a type of the Kingdom of God/Heaven, but the Bible in no way makes the case that the current land of Palestine is God's Kingdom.

I feel like you ... kind of know that.

Feel free to keep fleshing out your case that present day Palestine is the Biblical Kingdom of Heaven. I think you've got your work cut out for you.