Bible Study The Law of God - The Law of Moses - The Law

[Joe67]

Ps 40:5-10
5 Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered.

6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.

10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation. KJV

Heb 10:5-10
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. KJV

The words written and engraved on stones are a negative presentation of the living reality in the flesh and blood man, Jesus Christ. Negative, as in taking a picture on film. The picture on the negative is upside down and backward, but a necessary intermediate process to arrive at the express image.

The transcript/negative can not produce any better righteousness than that which was revealed in Moses, Joshua, Samuel, David, John the baptist. Their righteousness is a good righteousness and mercy is promised for all those servants who serve God faithfully under this form/manifestation. They did not have their consciences cleared and their bodies washed with pure water as our Lord has promised through Jesus Christ from the sanctuary above, the new Jerusalem.

In and through Jesus Christ in the heavenly sanctuary there is both mercy to forgive us and grace to empower us to live the image of the life that Jesus lived; a life without the dominion of both lust and pride. First we are delivered from the corruption that is in this world through lust, by the blood of Jesus. Then he washes our bodies with the pure water of his word of grace and puts his yoke upon us and his burden and gives us a new ministry in the image of his ministry.

Heb 10:19-22
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

21 And having an high priest over the house of God;

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. KJV

Jesus' commands are the full reality/express image of the commandments of God. Jesus our Lord is our God. Until we are converted from our childish carnal worship of Jesus, where we all begin and are offended when it is presented in this mode, we are not benefited by his commands. We are his called blood bought children before we are converted into a mature frame of mind and purpose by his grace through tribulations and delays and disappointments under the arm of the Lord, wherein his love is shed abroad in all the areas of our heart, not just the doorway. It must enter at the door, to gain access to the entire room.

Isa 53:1
Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? KJV

Joe

 

[ada]

Vain?? Your post sounds like just another 'mind reading' one??' You know why 'i' use emphasis, huh? Well then, try this just for you? (and I will atempt to deleat the other one to save forum space!)

Ok sorry please don't be upset and i take back the word "vain". :D
Your made yourself a lot of effort @post #435.
Better now?

​

 

[Elijah674]

Back to the Thresd:

LAW??

Before, before, before any Jew & in the BEGINNING well before the flood, and before Adam sinned we see Gen. 1 finding Adam's diet:

[28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
[29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; [to you it shall be for meat.]

[30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

And the required offing to God for sacrifice?? Would the unclean animal be accepted? You can answer that for yourself. But it is certain that God made a COMMAND about that disobedient act of Cain in Gen. 4:7 'fruit offering'!


Acts 10 in the New Covenant Law as some claim we see:
[10] And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
[11] And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
[12] Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
[13] And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

[14] But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
[15] And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
[16] This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

[17] Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, ...'

Three times in Acts the Holy Spirit's fullness chapter we see after the third time even, (what most all of the today ones toss out, Peter was not questing God, but what the Vision from God meant! Yet verse 14 is much more deeper than that, why had Peter.. 'Never eaten any thing that is common or unclean'?

It is true that God allowed the diet to include flesh food after the flood, clean flesh food! You read Lev. 11 & find that the chapter has that law all there, and again long long before any Jew came on the scene.

In Gen. 6 we see that God's Law's were taboo for planet earth by most. And that they would just flat out not yield to the Holy Spirits Striving with Noah preaching.

Yet, note what Noah's COMMANDED LAW was with what entered into the Ark?
Gen. 7 says:
[1] And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
[2] Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
(Clean & Unclean! Do you suppose that Noah knew the difference?? But not Peter, huh? Nor you'ins??)
.....
[5] And [Noah did according unto all] that [the LORD commanded him].

[6] And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
....
[8] Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
[9] There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

And Peter in the Outpouring of the Holy Spirit side of Christ UPLIFTED WORD did not know what God meant by the vision, huh? But why was that SO! You best get this cemented into the spiritual Brain about this ETERNAL LAW & all else decreed by God as in Heb. 13
[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. + Mal. 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; ..'

And the 'LAW/LESS' lost??

[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

These ones here seen when Christ comes again are clearly pointed out in the above Truth of Isa. 66:15-17's Inspired DOCUMENTATION..

--Elijah

 

[Who Says]

Back to the Thresd:

LAW??

Before, before, before any Jew & in the BEGINNING well before the flood, and before Adam sinned we see Gen. 1 finding Adam's diet:

[28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
[29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; [to you it shall be for meat.]

[30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
[31] And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

And the required offing to God for sacrifice?? Would the unclean animal be accepted? You can answer that for yourself. But it is certain that God made a COMMAND about that disobedient act of Cain in Gen. 4:7 'fruit offering'!


Acts 10 in the New Covenant Law as some claim we see:
[10] And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
[11] And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
[12] Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
[13] And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

[14] But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
[15] And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
[16] This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

[17] Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, ...'

Three times in Acts the Holy Spirit's fullness chapter we see after the third time even, (what most all of the today ones toss out, Peter was not questing God, but what the Vision from God meant! Yet verse 14 is much more deeper than that, why had Peter.. 'Never eaten any thing that is common or unclean'?

It is true that God allowed the diet to include flesh food after the flood, clean flesh food! You read Lev. 11 & find that the chapter has that law all there, and again long long before any Jew came on the scene.

In Gen. 6 we see that God's Law's were taboo for planet earth by most. And that they would just flat out not yield to the Holy Spirits Striving with Noah preaching.

Yet, note what Noah's COMMANDED LAW was with what entered into the Ark?
Gen. 7 says:
[1] And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
[2] Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
(Clean & Unclean! Do you suppose that Noah knew the difference?? But not Peter, huh? Nor you'ins??)
.....
[5] And [Noah did according unto all] that [the LORD commanded him].

[6] And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
....
[8] Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
[9] There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

And Peter in the Outpouring of the Holy Spirit side of Christ UPLIFTED WORD did not know what God meant by the vision, huh? But why was that SO! You best get this cemented into the spiritual Brain about this ETERNAL LAW & all else decreed by God as in Heb. 13
[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. + Mal. 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; ..'

And the 'LAW/LESS' lost??

[15] For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
[16] For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
[17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

These ones here seen when Christ comes again are clearly pointed out in the above Truth of Isa. 66:15-17's Inspired DOCUMENTATION..

--Elijah

Elijah, please tell me you are not insisting that it is a violation of God's commandments today to eat pork and therefore a sin?

The danger of seeing it that way is not in that it is wrong for us to not wish to eat pork and it is not in that it is wrong for us to feel in our conscience that to please God we need to not eat pork. The danger in seeing it that way is we will inwardly wrongly judge others who do not see it as wrong and thus we will violate God's love inwardly.

That would be not paying attention to these words of Paul: Romans 14:4 "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand."

We are all of us another man's servant. We are all God's servants. And we are all servants to His Christ.

The point is that we are not your servants that you ought to be the one judging us for what our conscience feels clean in doing. Romans 14:10 "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."

 

[Elijah674]

Elijah, please tell me you are not insisting that it is a violation of God's commandments today to eat pork and therefore a sin?

Is that what Inspiration said, or not?? (Matt. 4:4 + 2 Tim. 3:16-17)

And where in W.VA. is your location, if you do not mind me asking?? Perhaps you do, seeing that I sent you a personal email in your inbox asking the same question, with no reply? (but the mail-box is slightly confusing until one gets familar with it?)

But the reason for my asking, was that my wife & I spent some time in the Bluefield, Princeton & Welch area doing the Lords work, and who knows the Providential leading of the Lord?? Perhaps you could void out my dietless use of the unclean food of the past 30+ some years, huh? ;) (just satire my friend)

 

[Who Says]

Is that what Inspiration said, or not?? (Matt. 4:4 + 2 Tim. 3:16-17)

And where in W.VA. is your location, if you do not mind me asking?? Perhaps you do, seeing that I sent you a personal email in your inbox asking the same question, with no reply? (but the mail-box is slightly confusing until one gets familar with it?)

But the reason for my asking, was that my wife & I spent some time in the Bluefield, Princeton & Welch area doing the Lords work, and who knows the Providential leading of the Lord?? Perhaps you could void out my dietless use of the unclean food of the past 30+ some years, huh? ;) (just satire my friend)

This is what the inspiration says: Romans 14:14 "I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean."

I repeat: The danger of seeing it that way is not in that it is wrong for you to not wish to eat pork and it is not in that it is wrong for you to feel in your conscience that to please God you need to not eat pork. The danger in seeing it that way is you will inwardly wrongly judge others who do not see it as wrong and thus you will violate God's love inwardly.

That would be not paying attention to these words of Paul: Romans 14:4 "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand."

We are all of us another man's servant. We are all God's servants. And we are all servants to His Christ.

The point is that we are not your servants that you ought to be the one judging us for what our conscience feels clean in doing. Romans 14:10 "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."

Per your saying this: "But the reason for my asking, was that my wife & I spent some time in the Bluefield, Princeton & Welch area doing the Lords work, and who knows the Providential leading of the Lord?? Perhaps you could void out my dietless use of the unclean food of the past 30+ some years, huh? ;) (just satire my friend)"

No one has said you have to eat pork. And the basis you give there for not eating pork is fine and acceptable. Just do not judge others for their choice to eat pork by the standard of your conscience. One teaches commandment apart from love when one does that. One that does that is only teaching others to judge others. They have made themselves a judge of the law rather than a keeper of the law.

James 4:11 "Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge."

To judge either way is to do that for you are a servant just as we and you answer only to the master just as we.

By the way, thank you for bravely putting forth your thoughts and sharing that we all might learn together. You are much loved and appreciated for that.

 

[Wings]

Contributors so far:
Nathan, Elijah674, Rockie, Eventide, Theofilus,
Cyberjosh, 'Who Says', Reba, Sam21, Joe67,
Whitney, Alabaster, Ada, Farouk, Savedgeezer.

Thanks for seeing that I in no way think we are "under" the law. It seems I have had to defend that point more than been able to explain the other. But I know that defence always takes more out of a person than proclamation.

I am curious though, I do not doubt your statement, but would like some clarification on the direct intent of it if you do not mind expounding on it.
I am just curious if there is a specific part of my response or if it was a blanket statement on it.

Indeed we are not under the law given at Mnt. Sinai, but that in no way means that the testimony God gave them is not the same testimony of Himself today. He never changes, so therefore His testimony never changes.

One point that we are in disagreement on, not that I want to argue, but we may just not be seeing from the same angle is that we ARE under a law even now.
1Cr 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

Paul here is describing how it is he reaches out to people. He does not describe himself ever, in any of his writings, being outside the law of God. And at the same time, he never says he is "under" them. But what he does state is that he is under the law of Christ. That is the law of love. That law, we are under. We today have a written set of commands given by Christ Himself.

Jhn 15:10-12 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full. "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

So yes, I do believe that all Scripture is, and should be, used to 'measure' our love and actions. The conscience part I do not so much agree with because some can take that as 'every man does what is right in his own eyes' kind of law. This is what we see happening today, in the name of love. And is the primary reason for this thread.

Pilate asked Jesus "What is true?". He said this in a scoffing manner, as if truth was so obscured by everyone's self reasoning. Who can we believe anymore? I believe that just as it was in Christ's first coming, so shall it be in His second. Even when you look at the letter to the church in Laodicea, you find them rejecting even Christ's own counsel for their own 'conscience'.

Rev 3:17-18 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see.

I think that the long suffering of the Lord is most certainly salvation for us. I think that in this time of counsel and blinded eyes within the so called "church", there is still time for us to obey His voice and receive the gold(wisdom), the white garments(sanctification), and the salve(Spiritual awakening).

Nathan:

One point that we are in disagreement on, not that I want to argue, but we may just not be seeing from the same angle is that we ARE under a law even now.

Hi Nathan,

No, I do not believe that we are 'under' any law Nathan. I am sorry to have given you cause to think that I thought that we were. I believe that 'In Christ Jesus our Lord' believing Jews are dead to the law and it's claims, but that we who never were under the law as they were are not to be put under law, but must remain under the law of liberty, into which both we and they have been placed.- 'In Christ'

The law and the covenant made at Sinai, was made with the Children of Israel only, the nations were not under the law, as the Children of Israel were. However they were under the law of conscience, as is seen in Romans 2:

'For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law:
and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God,
but the doers of the law shall be justified.
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law,
do by nature the things contained in the law,
these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
their conscience also bearing witness,
and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ
according to my gospel.' (Rom 2:12-16)

* In regard to what you say concerning Paul, where you quote from 1 Cor. 9:21 :-

1Cor 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.

Paul ,as a Jew, was one who was not 'outside the law of God' according to nationality, and as one who had been a Pharisee, he was, 'as regarding the law - blameless'. Yet, those for whom he was made an apostle, the 'Gentiles' (he being an apostle to the Gentiles) were never under the law of God were they?

Nathan:

But what he does state is that he is under the law of Christ. That is the law of love. That law, we are under. We today have a written set of commands given by Christ Himself.

By this (highlighted above), Nathan, I assume that you mean the laws contained in The Sermon on The Mount, 'the beatitudes'. Yet, they are not for us (except under the principle of 2 Tim. 3:16). for we are not under law of any kind.

Having 'died to the law' in His death, the believing Jew may with the believing Gentile also 'walk in newness of life' before the Father 'in the power of His resurrection'.

In Christ Jesus
Wings

 

[Jake]

Hey, no worries. Seriously. I just found it humorous is all. Disagreeing is not arguing. In fact, we should all disagree with each other until we see that the other one is walking in the truth. But we should refrain from arguing. We are all trying to learn, I think, I know I am. Its just where we are trusting our learning to come from. Talking like this is good. Its not bad. What it does is get our minds active, focusing, and then the Spirit can better speak to us.

No, I do not believe its a commandment. It is His desire! Everything He has done is to point us to a willful decision to Him. His laws, His rules, His testimony, and His Son. Its all to show us who He is, and what He desires. That is why God referred to Him as friend! Just like it was in the Garden. But we understand the difference.

As promised, here is my comment on this post.

Everything He has done, lovingly points us to Jesus, in whom all the laws were fulfilled.

 

[Who Says]

As promised, here is my comment on this post.

Everything He has done, lovingly points us to Jesus, in whom all the laws were fulfilled.

That is a 100% true comment when we understand that it was all fulfilled in him that he might become our example of how to also fulfill it in us and so be as his body that has fulfilled it, holy and undefiled.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

We do that because we love God who says we ought to love also our brother.

1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Matthew 5:17 ¶Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Elijah674]

Elijah, please tell me you are not insisting that it is a violation of God's commandments today to eat pork and therefore a sin?

The danger of seeing it that way is not in that it is wrong for you to not wish to eat pork and it is not in that it is wrong for you to feel in your conscience that to please God you need to not eat pork. The danger in seeing it that way is you will inwardly wrongly judge others who do not see it as wrong and thus you will violate God's love inwardly.

That would be not paying attention to these words of Paul: Romans 14:4 "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand."

We are all of us another man's servant. We are all God's servants. And we are all servants to His Christ.

The point is that we are not your servants that you ought to be the one judging us for what our conscience feels clean in doing. Romans 14:10 "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."

Hi! Is your post attempting to put words into my mouth??? Surely the Word of God tells who will be seen as the abomination! Not me, for who had I even mentioned in that post??? Why not re/read my [[[POST]]] plus 2 Cor, 4:2 for a law of honesty.

But yes, you can honestly use these words from me as Gospel truth as I believe them, and that is that I would never baptise one who teach's that God was mistaken if not outright lying?

Or that he or she did indeed [document] that they did eat unclean foods, and would continue on doing so, and that is done [OPENLY.] And judge them?

There is a vast difference between the Wheat & Tares growing together & that of [OPEN DOCUMENTED SINNERS!] Yes, surely we are to judge [OPEN SIN IN THE CAMP!] Joshua 7:12 Last part of the verse.. '.. neither will I be with you ANYMORE, *EXCEPT ye destroy the ACCURSED FROM AMONG YOU.'

+ N.T. 1 Cor. 5:5 'To DELIVER such an one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.'

And CHRIST's WORD HIMSELF In Matt. 18:15-18

 

[Who Says]

Hey, no worries. Seriously. I just found it humorous is all. Disagreeing is not arguing. In fact, we should all disagree with each other until we see that the other one is walking in the truth. But we should refrain from arguing. We are all trying to learn, I think, I know I am. Its just where we are trusting our learning to come from. Talking like this is good. Its not bad. What it does is get our minds active, focusing, and then the Spirit can better speak to us.

Might that be our very problem that we see it that way?

Everyone wants to be teachers. But teachers focus on getting their point across rather than focusing on sharing and comparing information to sort out what makes best sense out of the whole contribution to the mix.

When we look to "see that the other one is walking in the truth" we look to judge the other person when our objective ought to be to judge our self.

((That would be not paying attention to these words of Paul: Romans 14:4 "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand."

We are all of us another man's servant. We are all God's servants. And we are all servants to His Christ.

Do we see that approach also pertains to the principle Paul outlined at Romans chapter 14?

The point is that we are not your servants that you ought to be the one judging us for what our conscience feels clean in doing. Romans 14:10 "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."

No one has said you have to eat pork. And the basis you give there for not eating pork is fine and acceptable. Just do not judge others for their choice to eat pork by the standard of your conscience. One teaches commandment apart from love when one does that. One that does that is only teaching others to judge others. They have made themselves a judge of the law rather than a keeper of the law.

James 4:11 "Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge."

To judge either way is to do that for you are a servant just as we and you answer only to the master just as we.))

James 3:1 "Be not many of you teachers, my brethren, knowing that we shall receive heavier judgment.
2 For in many things we all stumble. If any stumbleth not in word, the same is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body also."

Maybe we need to learn to share and analyse only the material but not look to "see that the other one is walking in the truth".

If we could all manage to see it and do it that way we would grow together without stumbling anyone.

Now applying that reasoning to myself, I will analyze what i said to Elijah.

I will look just at the section I have here reposted.

Overall I used words like "we" and "one" (meaning someone or anyone) to keep it impersonal.

There are a few places where I could improve. I said, "The point is that we are not your servants that you ought to be the one judging us ..."

What I should have said is, "The point is that we are not another man's servants that they ought to be the one judging us ..."

And I said, "Just do not judge others for their choice to eat pork by the standard of your conscience."

I could have said, "We just need to avoid judging others for their choice to eat pork by the standard of our own conscience."

And I said, "To judge either way is to do that for you are a servant just as we and you answer only to the master just as we."

I should have said, "For us to judge either way is to do that for we are only a servant just as everyone of else and any of them answer only to the master just as we our self.

Does that make sense?

Hey, It just came to me that what I have here outlined was all summed up in Jesus' words, Matthew 23:8 "But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted."

Does that not now open our eyes to a revelation of what we see around us?

Wow! God is good!!!

 

[Who Says]

Hi! Is your post attempting to put words into my mouth??? Surely the Word of God tells who will be seen as the abomination! Not me, for who had I even mentioned in that post??? Why not re/read my [[[POST]]] plus 2 Cor, 4:2 for a law of honesty.

But yes, you can honestly use these words from me as Gospel truth as I believe them, and that is that I would never baptise one who teach's that God was mistaken if not outright lying?

Or that he or she did indeed [document] that they did eat unclean foods, and would continue on doing so, and that is done [OPENLY.] And judge them?

There is a vast difference between the Wheat & Tares growing together & that of [OPEN DOCUMENTED SINNERS!] Yes, surely we are to judge [OPEN SIN IN THE CAMP!] Joshua 7:12 Last part of the verse.. '.. neither will I be with you ANYMORE, *EXCEPT ye destroy the ACCURSED FROM AMONG YOU.'

+ N.T. 1 Cor. 5:5 'To DELIVER such an one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.'

And CHRIST's WORD HIMSELF In Matt. 18:15-18

Sorry to offend you by my seeking to be sure of truth. It is not my place to teach you but only to share and compare notes that we each one might help our self to learn.

As I said previously on more than one occassion, "By the way, thank you for bravely putting forth your thoughts and sharing that we all might learn together. You are much loved and appreciated for that."

When I wrote that 2:11PM post #451 I had no idea that you were writing this to me. How do you feel about it? I mean about my 2:11PM post.

My personal resolve is to not allow myself to take offence as this would be like letting myself be consumed by the heat of the day. Whereas always remaining calm and collected in love is like shining brightly by means of the Son (who is the Sunshine of our life).

Amen

 

[Elijah674]

Contributors so far:
Nathan, Elijah674, Rockie, Eventide, Theofilus,
Cyberjosh, 'Who Says', Reba, Sam21, Joe67,
Whitney, Alabaster, Ada, Farouk, Savedgeezer.




Nathan:

Hi Nathan,

No, I do not believe that we are 'under' any law Nathan. I am sorry to have given you cause to think that I thought that we were. I believe that 'In Christ Jesus our Lord' believing Jews are dead to the law and it's claims, but that we who never were under the law as they were are not to be put under law, but must remain under the law of liberty, into which both we and they have been placed.- 'In Christ'

The law and the covenant made at Sinai, was made with the Children of Israel only, the nations were not under the law, as the Children of Israel were. However they were under the law of conscience, as is seen in Romans 2:

'For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law:
and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God,
but the doers of the law shall be justified.
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law,
do by nature the things contained in the law,
these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
their conscience also bearing witness,
and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ
according to my gospel.' (Rom 2:12-16)

* In regard to what you say concerning Paul, where you quote from 1 Cor. 9:21 :-



Paul ,as a Jew, was one who was not 'outside the law of God' according to nationality, and as one who had been a Pharisee, he was, 'as regarding the law - blameless'. Yet, those for whom he was made an apostle, the 'Gentiles' (he being an apostle to the Gentiles) were never under the law of God were they?

Nathan:


By this (highlighted above), Nathan, I assume that you mean the laws contained in The Sermon on The Mount, 'the beatitudes'. Yet, they are not for us (except under the principle of 2 Tim. 3:16). for we are not under law of any kind.

Having 'died to the law' in His death, the believing Jew may with the believing Gentile also 'walk in newness of life' before the Father 'in the power of His resurrection'.

In Christ Jesus
Wings

OK: we are in Christ, [just say]? we are Justified as in Rom. 8:1, & are now at Liberty, then we sin, & we are now 'teaching' that we are not now again UNDER THE LAW?? If that were true & it is VERY VERY FAR FETCHED, (see 2 Peter 2:19 with these ones PROMISING THEM LIBERTY!) then we need No High Priest In Jesus Christ.

I will admit that it is true that these ones here had gone way past the boundaries of their probation as seen in verses from 17-22, and the Striving of the Holy Ghost was past tense! as is also seen in Gen. 6:3 & the Rev. 17:1-5 ones.

And yes, I am understanding more & more as each day passes, that there is just NO WAY that [most] can be reached! Isa. 4:4 But the wittness & the Testimony must give the opportunity at least! Matt. 24:14.

 

[Who Says]

God's love is not lawless.

How could it be? It is from what all his law springs.

That is why we must make sure we do not violate God's love in how we teach his law or how we apply his law, either one.

 

[Nathan]

Might that be our very problem that we see it that way?

Everyone wants to be teachers. But teachers focus on getting their point across rather than focusing on sharing and comparing information to sort out what makes best sense out of the whole contribution to the mix.

When we look to "see that the other one is walking in the truth" we look to judge the other person when our objective ought to be to judge our self.

That would be not paying attention to these words of Paul: Romans 14:4 "Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand."

We are all of us another man's servant. We are all God's servants. And we are all servants to His Christ.

Do we see that approach also pertains to the principle Paul outlined at Romans chapter 14?

The point is that we are not your servants that you ought to be the one judging us for what our conscience feels clean in doing. Romans 14:10 "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."

No one has said you have to eat pork. And the basis you give there for not eating pork is fine and acceptable. Just do not judge others for their choice to eat pork by the standard of your conscience. One teaches commandment apart from love when one does that. One that does that is only teaching others to judge others. They have made themselves a judge of the law rather than a keeper of the law.

James 4:11 "Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge."

To judge either way is to do that for you are a servant just as we and you answer only to the master just as we.

James 3:1 "Be not many of you teachers, my brethren, knowing that we shall receive heavier judgment.
2 For in many things we all stumble. If any stumbleth not in word, the same is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body also."

Maybe we need to learn to share and analyse only the material but not look to "see that the other one is walking in the truth".

If we could all manage to see it and do it that way we would grow together without stumbling anyone.

Now applying that reasoning to myself, I will analyze what i said to Elijah.

I will look just at the section I have here reposted.

Overall I used words like "we" and "one" (meaning someone or anyone) to keep it impersonal.

There are a few places where I could improve. I said, "The point is that we are not your servants that you ought to be the one judging us ..."

What I should have said is, "The point is that we are not another man's servants that they ought to be the one judging us ..."

And I said, "Just do not judge others for their choice to eat pork by the standard of your conscience."

I could have said, "We just need to avoid judging others for their choice to eat pork by the standard of our own conscience."

And I said, "To judge either way is to do that for you are a servant just as we and you answer only to the master just as we."

I should have said, "For us to judge either way is to do that for we are only a servant just as everyone of else and any of them answer only to the master just as we our self.

Does that make sense?

Hey, It just came to me that what I have here outlined was all summed up in Jesus' words, Matthew 23:8 "But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted."

Does that not now open our eyes to a revelation of what we see around us?

Wow! God is good!!!

God is good! Amen.

I think you are in error if you do not examine those who write on here, those posting, whether they are teaching or not.

Before Christ left He gave specific instructions to His followers that there would be people come in and try to claim His authority. He specifically that they could determine who they were based on their fruits. What ever is in the heart of man WILL come to the outside to be known by all.

You confuse me a little, not sure if you were including me in that whole post. But to clarify, my favorite sandwich is a fresh BLT. But I do like turkey bacon just as well.

I find it somewhat humorous how people try to put me in a box everywhere I go. I guess it's human nature to do so. I am sure I do more than I realize.

When I started this thread I was under the conviction based solely on the testimony placed inside the ark, and by it how we can know without any doubt, humanly and spiritually, who the true and living God is.

I believe that the law placed in the side has significance in the as far as it is how God desires us to live. What a mature life in Christ will most likely look like.

And I believe that the law containing all the sacrificial ordinances is the one that has been completely done away with, for Christ was the perfect sacrifice.

We should not all be teachers. But I am not here to teach. I am here to learn, and I can tell you that I have learned a tremendous amount just through this study.

I will always look at the walk of ANYONE who I even think about taking instruction from. I have on this forum before, and sadly most in real life fail to meet the test. If the apostles said to look at there way of life as proof, and Christ Himself, then I think it's a good principle to follow.

 

[Who Says]

You confuse me a little, not sure if you were including me in that whole post.

I went back and added (( )) around that part I was quoting from my previous post.

No not about anything you are doing. I liked all you had said but I got to thinking about that one little statement and its implications.

I will go now and prepare a reply to the rest of this post.

 

[Who Says]

God is good! Amen.

I think you are in error if you do not examine those who write on here, those posting, whether they are teaching or not.

I do not mean that we are not to examine their fruits. Indeed their fruits are their teachings to a huge degree. For we know where the lie comes from. Therefore whether they claim to be a teacher or not, we are examining what they teach and using what they say as a stone to strike our beliefs against and prove or disprove their validity. We keep the word in us growing ever clearer when we do this. A part of comparing their word to ours is examining the spirit. And we do not need to be afraid for if we be growing in Christ the spirit in us is stronger than the spirit in the world.

But once we are sure they are in error we can gently try to help them in a loving and impersonal way that accords due respect to them. We make our self the servant of all rather than the master or lord of others. And that is the love Christ and Paul taught.

Before Christ left He gave specific instructions to His followers that there would be people come in and try to claim His authority. He specifically that they could determine who they were based on their fruits. What ever is in the heart of man WILL come to the outside to be known by all.

This is true but yet we conquer evil with good. If we love only those loving us what are we doing different than the world.

Christ told us to go teach and make disciples, also. But we must respect that these ones see themselves as disciples of Christ already and treat them accordingly, offering them the love of a brother.

You confuse me a little, not sure if you were including me in that whole post. But to clarify, my favorite sandwich is a fresh BLT. But I do like turkey bacon just as well.

Same here !!! Love a good BLT and bacon in my beans !!!

I find it somewhat humorous how people try to put me in a box everywhere I go. I guess it's human nature to do so. I am sure I do more than I realize.

No, I understood already that you do have a balanced view of that Old Law from our past discussions. But I wanted to strike the new things I am seeing with you because I do respect how you see the overall issue. I don't see that we are very far apart in our views on it.

When I started this thread I was under the conviction based solely on the testimony placed inside the ark, and by it how we can know without any doubt, humanly and spiritually, who the true and living God is.

I believe that the law placed in the side has significance in the as far as it is how God desires us to live. What a mature life in Christ will most likely look like.

And I believe that the law containing all the sacrificial ordinances is the one that has been completely done away with, for Christ was the perfect sacrifice.

That is exactly right and the rest are YET being fulfiled in Christ by his body members as they grow to his image. And that does NOT happen without the obedience to the law of God that correctly understood love gaurantees. Even our faith works through love. All we do comes through our love if we love as God loves. All of God's Laws are a product of his love and that is why they are true freedom to us.

We should not all be teachers. But I am not here to teach. I am here to learn, and I can tell you that I have learned a tremendous amount just through this study.

Me too. This has been one of the most spiritually healthy threads I have been in for a while now. I find it refreshing and healing.

I will always look at the walk of ANYONE who I even think about taking instruction from. I have on this forum before, and sadly most in real life fail to meet the test. If the apostles said to look at there way of life as proof, and Christ Himself, then I think it's a good principle to follow.

Yes indeed. A rotten tree does not produce good fruit. But we want to try to believe the best of others as the love Paul describes at 1 Cor 13:4-8 tell us. And we do unto our neighbors as we would have them do to us.

But I know I have no need to tell you those things. Don't think I am hinting anything by it. I am just reviewing scripture as I write.

What do you think of this little motto I wrote earlier today?

My personal resolve is to not allow myself to take offence as this would be like letting myself be consumed by the heat of the day. Whereas always remaining calm and collected in love is like shining brightly by means of the Son (who is the Sunshine of our life).

 

[Who Says]

I want to tell you Nathan how it is I happened to come to this site.

A buch of people that bragged of having left this site gathered at another Bible chat site I was on. They dog this site left and right in their posts on that site.

They did not like what I had to say so they worked together to manufacture lies against me and elicit the administrator to ban me.

I spoke no different there than I do here.

The way they twisted my words and presented me as if saying other than what I had said was extremely evident. But I was one and they were many complaining to have me stoned.

Well, to make a long story short, I thought to myself, "Maybe I should go to the site that they so frequently speak bad about."

I figured right that they had done toward this site among themselves what they were doing to me.

And for Rockies sake, No Cornelius was not one of them.

But I am ever so glad they drove me to come here. I would not have known how to reach this site but for their bad mouthing it.

 

[Elijah674]

OK: The Trial in the Universe based on the Godheads 'MORAL' Loving Character! Their Eternal Covenant! Their Eternal Law of love is on Trail here on earth. Was Their Morality Faulty in Their Royal Eternal Law, and could it not be Obeyed? And is seen in the executional stage of sin & sinners Ending, the FINAL Fate of satan & all matured sinners which are to be Blotted from the Universe, is that True Agape Love??? That is what is the most important question that must be Eternally Settled in the Universe of The Godheads creation! And the salvation of fallen man is not the only question as important as that is!

The Godhead had the Eternal Plan, FACT!

Adam was not a faulty creation of Theirs. Freedom of their creation with a 'mind' needed proof. The Godhead Their self, put THEIR SELF on trial in fallen earth, before the UNIVERSE. 1 Peter 1:9-12 'angels desire to look into.' as well! (consider Heb's 'other worlds'.

The PLAN had to now go by satan's New Dominion won over by fallen Adam. (Matt. 4:8-9) Christ was the SECOND Adam with Adam's NO PROPENSITY for sin, As was Adam before he sinned, again They had to prove to the Universe that Their creation was not FLAWED! Yet Christ/Son was with Adams FALLEN PHYSICAL NATURE + 4000 years more of satan caused decay. And STILL CHRIST ADAM/MAN WAS VICTORIOUS!

God as Christ could not be used as it would not be used as a HUMAN Adam. Christ's power was that of the (now) Father. Yet, at NO TIME WAS CHRIST NOT GOD!!! Adams strength before his fall was still that of Phil. 4:13's Grace & supplied Power! (see Isa. 42:21 for one REAL purpose of Christ mission!) The Law of the Godhead had to be Proved Loving & JUST!There has not been one stone left unturned by satan that he & his agents have not used to prevert the Law of God! Jude's Winds have not even yet quite blowing! It will so deceiving that if it were possible the very ellect would be lost. One such wind is the perverted Doctrine of Christ. Which again must violate THE LAW of God.

THE GODHEAD are Separate Individuals! One call's Himself THE HOLY SPIRIT or Holy Ghost.. 'God IS A SPIRIT' & Jehovah God & Christ God in the beginning of Eternity, BOTH HAD an Image that mankind were patterned after! Read Exod. 33:20-23 for two of the Godhead's body parts!

And The Son?? He will forever be Eternal God/Mankind in the PLAN & ITS CONSUMMATION! Compare Rom. 4:17's last part of the verse. He came to earth to be CALLED THE SON OF GOD! That was the consummated PLAN!

--Elijah

 

[Nathan]

My personal resolve is to not allow myself to take offence as this would be like letting myself be consumed by the heat of the day. Whereas always remaining calm and collected in love is like shining brightly by means of the Son (who is the Sunshine of our life).

I like it. On one level it is hard to understand, probably could uses a little tweaking. But in theory, its a good way to think about the differences the sun has in our world.