The Lord Jesus Christ IS God's ELECT...

[Eventide]

Greetings Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

New guy here although I'm not new to Christianity. I would like to start a discussion with respect to election and what it biblically means to be the elect of God.

Let's cut right to the chase here;

WE are NOT the elect of God, the Lord Jesus Christ is the elect of God. We are the elect of God in Christ. Why? Because Christ is God's elect and when we are placed into the body of Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit of God, then we become the elect.

People will argue that God chose us before the foundation of the world, although this is not biblcally correct... God chose us in CHRIST before the foundation of the world. The same book of Ephesians tells us that prior to trusting in Christ, we were dead and lost in trespasses and in sins. We were certainly not elected (or chosen by God) in Adam.

Our Adamic nature is biblcally condemned, it's not elected. It is when we become members of the body of Christ that we are the elect of God, not because we are the elect, but because Christ is the elect.

The bible is very clear on this, that if we seek to save our life, we shall lose it. We are to take up our cross and follow Christ. We are crucified with Christ, nevertheless we live, yet not we, but Christ lives in us. Paul writes that ye are dead and that our life is hid in Christ.

I think that biblical election is fairly simple and straightforward when it's centered on Christ. I have found in my experience that election gets very confusing to people when they are taught that they are the elect of God.

Nothing could be further from the truth, we are not the elect of God, His Son is the elect of God, and when any person places their faith and trust in Him, then God adds them to HIS BODY, and they are the elect of God IN CHRIST.

All thoughts welcome,

To the glory and praise of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ !

 

[XTruth]

Hi there,
I understand what your intention is, or where your thought process is going... w/o Christ, no one could be righteous; however, the word elect simply means chosen. Any individual or group of individuals who have been chosen by God would be God's elect. In this sense there are many elects of God in Scripture. The word itself does not specify which elect is referred to in any particular scripture. This must be determined by each passage where the word is found and not by man's interpretation, or his own decision as to which elect is referred to.

"I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality (1 Tim.5:21)."
2 classes here: the Lord Jesus Christ (who is God's elect - Isa. 42:1; 1Pet. 2:6) AND the elect angels... not the same person of Jesus... angels are also elect, yet are not Jesus.
The elect angels -- the ones who remained true when over one-third of God's angels rebelled with Lucifer (Rev. 12:4,7-12; Isa. 14:12-14). The word "elect" proves some angels are chosen and others are not, the reason being that some rebelled and others did not.

Four Elect's of God

1. Christ (Isa. 42:1; 1Pet. 2:6)

2. All Christians (Rom. 8:33; Col. 3:12; Tit. 1:1; Jn. 15:16; Eph. 1:4; 2:10; 2Th. 2:13; 2Jn. 1:1,13)

3. Israel (Isa. 45:4; 65:9,22; Mt. 24:21-31; Mk. 13:22,27; 1Pet. 1:2)

4. Angels (1Tim. 5:21)

Anyone chosen of God at any time, Jew or Gentile, is the elect of God (Rom. 9:11; 11:5,7,28; 1Th. 1:4; 1Pet. 5:13; 2Pet. 1:10). All men are called to become God's elect or chosen ones and can be if they will choose God (Mt. 11:28-30; 20:16; Jn. 1:12; 3:16-20; 6:37; Eph. 1:4; 2Th. 2:13; Jas. 2:5; 1Tim. 2:4; 2Pet. 3:9; Rev. 17:14; 22:17).

And I do agree that the elect weren't chosen before the foundation of the world; it is the plan of all this that was predestined, not the people. All are chosen, few accept... thus the meaning of many are called yet few are chosen. For it is the desire of God that all shall be saved (2 Pt.3:9; 1 Tim.2:4; Jn.3:16; Rev.22:17), and all would be saved if all chose God as He has chosen all of us.

 

[Eventide]

I understand what your intention is, or where your thought process is going... w/o Christ, no one could be righteous; however, the word elect simply means chosen. Any individual or group of individuals who have been chosen by God would be God's elect.

Yes, and we find in scripture that none are elected in Adam, all are elected in Christ. All are condemned in their Adamic nature, and we are taught plainly that if we shall seek to save our life that we will lose it, and that if we shall lose it for Christ and the gospel, then we shall save it.

This is why Paul writes that he is crucified with Christ, and yet he lives, yet not him, but Christ lives in him. Old things are passed away, all things are become new in Christ, who is God's elect.

 

[XTruth]

No, none are made righteous in Adam, but by Biblical definition, the elect of Scripture do indicate 4 groups, not Christ only.

 

[Eventide]

Yes, that's obviously biblical as you have pointed out.

The context of this thread is more aligned with the church of God, not the Israel of God, or the elect angels.

 

[Teach]

Great Posts Eventide & XTruth:

We might once and for all get rid of the false teaching of predestination ( prior to the Lamb Slain before the foundation of the World) and OSAS. You may have noticed that those who hold to predestination come across as defending predetermination instead.
Ciao! 4 now

 

[Vic C.]

I really don't understand the purpose of this thread.

The Bible clearly says the ekklesia is God's elect. We, the believers and Body of Christ, are the elect. So, I actually agree with X's assertions and we don't always agree.

 

[Joe67]

The full understanding comes through the Words and Works of God.

Isa 53:1-2
1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? KJV

Word in the report. Works in the arm.

The purpose of God stands in election. Romans 9.

Jacob is the elect servant. This is an object lesson of Jesus of Nazareth.

Jacob has a full family. The nation designed for priesthood comes out of Jacob/Israel.

Jesus has a full family, the chosen few, designed of the Father for an eternal priesthood to the nations.

These few are chosen through the design of the Most High to be the members of the Body of priests to minister to the nations as they come every new moon and sabbath to the sanctuary where the Lamb is the light of the new Jerusalem.

Through the foolishness of preaching it pleases God to save those who believe.

Joe

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote XTruth : " All men are called to become God's elect or chosen ones and can be if they will choose God"

----------------------

Hi X

I read your post from which this was taken. For the most part I agree with what you said. However, when you made this comment, it detracted from what you previously said.

"If they will choose God " ? ?

"All men " ? ?

No, not all men are called to become God's elect, or chosen ones !

Many are called, but few are chosen < So the scriptures say !

Here is another scripture which tells us that we did not choose God, but he chose us >

II Thess. 2:13 - "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation of the Spirit and belief of the truth"

This belief in II Thess. 2:13 is not our belief. First, this word should have been translated "faith" and not belief. Its the greek word "pistis". I believe this is the only verse that "pistis" was translated - "belief" instead of "faith", of which it is translated - "faith" everywhere else. There are two exception where this greek word "pistis" was translated - "assurance" and ""fidelity". 239 times it was translated - "faith".

The reason I bring this up, is because our faith is not good enough. Being chosen from the beginning, shows that our faith had nothing to do with it.

We as Christians are given the faith of Christ - Galatians 3:22 - "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe" < Here, this word "believe" is the greek word - "pisteuo" and this greek word means ---- To ahere to, or rely on. So this verse is stating that we are to rely upon the faith of Jesus Christ , not our faith.

Also, in Romans 5:5 thru verse 8, that "while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" . I would encourage reading the full context.

We are also one of the two folds of sheep. These sheep were given to Jesus by his Father. This again shows predestination, or a being chosen.

Bless - MM

 

[Eventide]

I really don't understand the purpose of this thread.

The thread is to discuss the biblical topic of election, primarily with respect to the Christian life.

The Bible clearly says the ekklesia is God's elect. We, the believers and Body of Christ, are the elect. So, I actually agree with X's assertions and we don't always agree.

All believers are the elect because they are 'in Christ', who is the elect of God. They are members of HIS body.

With respect to us as individuals, look at what we are called to do... take up our cross and follow Christ, for is we shall seek to save OUR life, we shall lose it. God's not electing us, He is electing us IN CHRIST. We are to put off our old man who is corrupt according to deceitful lust, and put on the new man which is Christ in us.

Notice Gal 2:20 where Paul writes;

I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but CHRIST liveth in me.

Which person is the elect there, our old man, or Christ in us..?

I think that it's obvious. Christ is the elect of God, not us, we are the elect of God in Him.

 

[Mysteryman]

Ephesians 1:4 - "According as he hath chosen "us" in him (Christ) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame bfore him ( Christ ) in love"


Just in this verse alone we have two words 1. Us and 2. We

 

[Eventide]

Ephesians 1:4 - "According as he hath chosen "us" in him (Christ) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame bfore him ( Christ ) in love"


Just in this verse alone we have two words 1. Us and 2. We

You have placed the emphasis on 'us' rather than 'in Him';

I would emphasize it as... "According as He hath chosen us "in Him"...

There are none good but one, and that is God. We are to put off the old man (us, me, I, etc) and put on the new man which is Christ in us, our hope of glory.

Gal 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me...

Who is crucified according to Gal 2:20, and who is alive ?

 

[Mysteryman]

Ephesians 1:4 - "According as he hath chosen "us" in him (Christ) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame bfore him ( Christ ) in love"


Just in this verse alone we have two words 1. Us and 2. We

You have placed the emphasis on 'us' rather than 'in Him';

I would emphasize it as... "According as He hath chosen us "in Him"...

There are none good but one, and that is God. We are to put off the old man (us, me, I, etc) and put on the new man which is Christ in us, our hope of glory.

Gal 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me...

Who is crucified according to Gal 2:20, and who is alive ?

Hi Eventide

You specifically said and I quote -- "Not us"

Yet the scripture says - "Us" and "We"

He has chosen --- Us ---- In Him ( In Christ )

What I would like to try and understand, is why you said ------ "Not us" ?

 

[Eventide]

Ephesians 1:4 - "According as he hath chosen "us" in him (Christ) before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame bfore him ( Christ ) in love"


Just in this verse alone we have two words 1. Us and 2. We

You have placed the emphasis on 'us' rather than 'in Him';

I would emphasize it as... "According as He hath chosen us "in Him"...

There are none good but one, and that is God. We are to put off the old man (us, me, I, etc) and put on the new man which is Christ in us, our hope of glory.

Gal 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me...

Who is crucified according to Gal 2:20, and who is alive ?

Hi Eventide

You specifically said and I quote -- "Not us"

Yet the scripture says - "Us" and "We"

He has chosen --- Us ---- In Him ( In Christ )

What I would like to try and understand, is why you said ------ "Not us" ?

That's right, we (us) are in fact elected, yet not {we, us} in ourselves, but in Him, in Christ, for He is the elect of God.

That's why I ref Gal 2:20 because it tells us who is crucified with Christ and who is living, and that is CHRIST in us, not us and Christ in us, but Christ alone in us. Paul writes in Col 3 that we (us) are DEAD and that our life is hid with God in Christ.

There are none good but one, and that is God. He is the elect, not us. We are called to lay down our life, for if we shall seek to save it we shall lose it.

Starting to see the picture here ?

God didn't elect you personally, He called you as He calls all men to repentance, and when we agree with God (even that there are none good but one, Him), then we can walk with God, laying aside the old man who is corrupt and putting on the new man in us which is CHRIST in us, our hope of glory.

If any man will come after me, let him take up his cross and follow me...

 

[HisSheep]

Eventide, Welcome to the forum!

In the end times, is Jesus going to be on the earth in order that Satan may try to lead Him astray? One would think that Satan would know better than to try that sort of thing...

Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. (ESV)
-----------------------------------------------

You present the craziest attempt I’ve yet heard to explain away the Biblical use of the term “electâ€. It simply means chosen. You should take it for what it means; God has chosen His people. He always has. God didn't "choose" Jesus, did He? Rather, Jesus does the choosing. Here, Jesus says so:

Matthew 11:27
All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. (ESV)
-----------------------------------------------

2 John 1:1
The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all who know the truth (ESV)

At the time of the writing of this verse, Jesus had apparently become a mother! I think it’s great to think outside the box and to think for ourselves about scripture, but why look for a different meaning of the word â€elect†when it’s meaning is clear?
-----------------------------------------------

I think people are just uncomfortable with sovereign election, and will readily contort scripture to avoid its truth. As it is written:

2 Timothy 4: 3-4
3For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. (ESV)

Forgive my tone if I’ve misunderstood you.

Again, welcome to the forum.

-HisSheep

 

[JamesG]

.
Eventide

I agree that Jesus Christ is the one who is elect and we are elect because we are in Christ.

Is this your personal understanding or do you belong to a Church that agrees with this understanding?

JamesG

 

[Caroline H]

I agree with that as well

 

[Vic C.]

I don't know people. Hissheep, on the previous page, posted a very compelling argument to the contrary.

 

[JamesG]

.
Re: The Lord Jesus Christ IS God's ELECT...
by Vic C. on Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:47 pm

I don't know people. Hissheep, on the previous page, posted a very compelling argument to the contrary.


Without even a mention of Ephesians?

JamesG

 

[Vic C.]

.
Re: The Lord Jesus Christ IS God's ELECT...
by Vic C. on Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:47 pm

I don't know people. Hissheep, on the previous page, posted a very compelling argument to the contrary.


Without even a mention of Ephesians?

JamesG

Yup. Nothing in Ephesians contradicts what he posted. Nothing in Ephesians suggests to me that Jesus is the elect. If anything, it tells me that we are His elect. Jesus makes that clear:

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Man, a simple word search of the word elect shows us the err of this idea that Jesus is the elect. That concept was never intended in scripture.