The Lords Sabbaths and his Feasts, Holy Convocations/Leviticus 23:1; 1 Corinthians 5:8

[Jethro Bodine]

During the course of preaching or teaching the gospel to those under the law, Paul first needed them to listen and to relate the truths of God's Kingdom from the Old Testament scriptures.

He did this buy going to the synagogues and teaching from the law, to show them Christ from the old testament.

If they had suspected his real motive they would have never let him speak in the synagogue.

Sometimes this ploy got him beaten or stoned, sometimes he won these to Christ.


JLB

Be observant in order to show people they don't have to be observant? How does that work? I would be like, "dude, you're being observant, but you want me to listen to you say that we don't have to be, and that actually we shouldn't be doing this?"

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

I apologise if I violated a rule with this posting. I wrote out my post "Not" as any objection or for any particular post in this thread. I posted on the things I was seeing being talked back and forth about and put statements that I took for granted that every one new that I thought went along with what was being said.

For this I apologise and will in the future "ALWAYS" put the scripture used as reference to what I am saying. Again please know I was not trying to come against the "original Post"

The scriptures I used are as follows and there are more scriptures that can also be applied to this. I am writing a couple out and for the most part simply listings the scriptures I used or was referring to.

I am writing from the new living translation so as to make it easier to read.

Rest....Hebrews 4:1
1 God's promise of entering his place of rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fears that some of you might fail to get there.

Days and festivals etc.....Galatians 4:8-12 (10) You are trying to find favor with God by what you do or don't do on certain days or months or seasons or years.

Now a better covenant over the old......Hebrews 8:6 But our High Priest has been given a ministry that is far superior to the ministry of those who serve under the old laws, for He is the one who guarantees for us a better covenant.

Old law or covenant destroyed........Hebrews 8:13 When God speaks of a new covenant, it means He has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and ready to be put aside.

Hebrews 10:9 Then He added, "Look, I have come to do your will." He cancels the first covenant in order to establish the second.

10:11 Under the old covenant, the priest stands before the alter day after day offering sacrifices that can never take away sins.

Slave to the law 5:1 So Christ has really set you free. Now make sure that you stay free and don't get tied up again in the slavery of the law.

All Scriptures used for this and to be studied are as listed and again there are more then this....

Galatians 2:16 3:13 3:19 3:24-25 4:8-12 4:28-31 5:1 5:4 5:18

Romans grace set us free.....6:15
Romans Released from the law 7:4-6
Romans 10

2 Corinthians 3:5 The 3rd chapter is about the new covenant

Hebrews chapters 8,9,10 are all good chapters to study on this
Hebrews Rest 4:1-7
Hebrews Better covenant better promises 8:6-13
Hebrews 8:13 old is obsolete
Hebrews 10:9 cancel
Hebrews 9:1
Hebrews 10:11

I pray this is what you were looking for
Jim

 

[JLB]

Be observant in order to show people they don't have to be observant? How does that work? I would be like, "dude, you're being observant, but you want me to listen to you say that we don't have to be, and that actually we shouldn't be doing this?"

I see you don't approve of Paul's methods.

Never the less, the scripture stands clear for all who desire to be taught the truths of God's Kingdom from them.

20 When I am with the Jews, I become one of them so that I can bring them to Christ. When I am with those who follow the Jewish laws, I do the same, even though I am not subject to the law, so that I can bring them to Christ. 1 Corinthians 9:20 NLT

There it is, believe it or not.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I see you don't approve of Paul's methods.

No, what I don't approve of is your interpretation of what Paul did in being observant in order to reach the Jews about Christ.

You're saying he became a hypocrite by pretending to think he had to be observant in order to get Jews to not be observant.

 

[JLB]

Still very contradictory, but it's clear by what you believe here that you should be saying we need to leave people alone who are being observant and not judge them because the Holy Spirit may be at work in them to do that.

No, I didn't say that at all.

Those are your words, not mine.

I haven't found any scriptures where Gentiles were lead by the Spirit to be keep the law of Moses.

That would be a direct contradiction to what the scriptures teach.

When I am with the Jews, I become one of them so that I can bring them to Christ. When I am with those who follow the Jewish laws, I do the same, even though I am not subject to the law, so that I can bring them to Christ. 1 Corinthians 9:20

and again -

But when the right time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman, subject to the law. 5 God sent him to buy freedom for us who were slaves to the law, so that he could adopt us as his very own children. Galatians 4:4


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I haven't found any scriptures where Gentiles were lead by the Spirit to be keep the law of Moses.

Oh, I see. His example of 'becoming all things to all men' is only for Jews.

And you still have to defuse the accusation that Paul was purposely being a hypocrite in order to rescue the Jews from being observant--as if that's what he was trying to do (he was teaching all men not to keep the law in order to earn salvation that way, not to never keep it, ever, under any and all circumstances).

 

[JLB]

No, what I don't approve of is your interpretation of what Paul did in being observant in order to reach the Jews about Christ.

You're saying he became a hypocrite by pretending to think he had to be observant in order to get Jews to not be observant.

20 When I am with the Jews, I become one of them so that I can bring them to Christ. When I am with those who follow the Jewish laws, I do the same, even though I am not subject to the law, so that I can bring them to Christ. 1 Corinthians 9:20 NLT


I am saying what the scripture says. There it is in black and white for all to read.

You on the other hand keep continually trying to put words in my mouth.

When I am with those who follow the Jewish laws, I do the same...even though I am not subject to the law...

Black and white!


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

20 When I am with the Jews, I become one of them so that I can bring them to Christ. When I am with those who follow the Jewish laws, I do the same, even though I am not subject to the law, so that I can bring them to Christ. 1 Corinthians 9:20 NLT


I am saying what the scripture says. There it is in black and white for all to read.

You on the other hand keep continually trying to put words in my mouth.

When I am with those who follow the Jewish laws, I do the same...even though I am not subject to the law...

Black and white!


JLB

Do you deny implying that Paul was observant, pretending to have to do that, in order to have an in with the Jews in order to rescue them from their law keeping observance?

 

[JLB]

Oh, I see. His example of 'becoming all things to all men' is only for Jews.

And you still have to defuse the accusation that Paul was purposely being a hypocrite in order to rescue the Jews from being observant--as if that's what he was trying to do (he was teaching all men not to keep the law in order to earn salvation that way, not to never keep it, ever, under any and all circumstances).

When I am with the Gentiles who do not have the Jewish law, I fit in with them as much as I can. In this way, I gain their confidence and bring them to Christ. But I do not discard the law of God; I obey the law of Christ.1 Corinthians 9:21

I obey the law of Christ.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Do you deny implying that Paul was observant, pretending to have to do that, in order to have an in with the Jews in order to rescue them from their law keeping observance?

I don't imply, I state clearly what the scriptures plainly and clearly say.

When I am with the Jews, I become one of them so that I can bring them to Christ. When I am with those who follow the Jewish laws, I do the same, even though I am not subject to the law, so that I can bring them to Christ. 1 Corinthians 9:20 NLT


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

When I am with the Gentiles who do not have the Jewish law, I fit in with them as much as I can. In this way, I gain their confidence and bring them to Christ. But I do not discard the law of God; I obey the law of Christ.1 Corinthians 9:21

I obey the law of Christ.


JLB

What's your point? Gentiles obeyed the law when they joined themselves to the God of Israel. Should it be any surprise that gentiles who haven't joined themselves to the God of Israel don't have the law? You misunderstand that to mean gentiles who believed in the God of the Israelites didn't have to keep the law. The law itself plainly says they did have too.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I don't imply, I state clearly what the scripture plainly and clearly say.

When I am with the Jews, I become one of them so that I can bring them to Christ. When I am with those who follow the Jewish laws, I do the same, even though I am not subject to the law, so that I can bring them to Christ. 1 Corinthians 9:20 NLT


JLB

You're not answering my question, JLB. And you know it.

Just answer my question so I can know your interpretation of the scriptures regarding Paul's law keeping. Right now your doctrine is saying he purposely became a hypocrite by being observant. A hypocrite because his intention was to get the Jews to stop being observant.

I say you do not understand his intention. It was not to get them to stop being observant. It was to stop them from being observant for the purpose of earning their salvation.

 

[JLB]

What's your point? Gentiles obeyed the law when they joined themselves to the God of Israel. Should it be any surprise that gentiles who haven't joined themselves to the God of Israel don't have the law? You misunderstand that to mean gentiles who believed in the God of the Israelites didn't have to keep the law. The law itself plainly says they did have too.

Paul himself wasn't subject to the law of Moses.

The Lord Jesus Christ Himself came to redeem those who were under the law, that they would be delivered from the law... so that God could adopt them as His children.

...but in your mind, Gentiles who did not have the law of Moses, and became believers, are now under the law of Moses?

When I am with the Jews, I become one of them so that I can bring them to Christ. When I am with those who follow the Jewish laws, I do the same, even though I am not subject to the law, so that I can bring them to Christ. 1 Corinthians 9:20 NLT

But when the right time came, God sent his Son, born of a woman, subject to the law. 5 God sent him to buy freedom for us who were slaves to the law, so that he could adopt us as his very own children. Galatians 4:4 NLT


...God sent him to buy freedom for us who were slaves to the law, so that he could adopt us as his very own children.


For you are not under the law, but under grace. Romans 6:14

Sin is no longer your master, for you are no longer subject to the law, which enslaves you to sin. Instead, you are free by God's grace.
Romans 6:14 NLT


JLB

 

[JLB]

Just answer my question so I can know your interpretation of the scriptures regarding Paul's law keeping.

I have answered this question now 4 times, and I will continue to answer it.

When Paul was with those who were under the law, he became as one under the law, in order to save some of them.

Right now your doctrine is saying he purposely became a hypocrite by being observant. A hypocrite because his intention was to get the Jews to stop being observant.

He became as one of them, in order to save some of them.

He clearly said he was not subject to the law.

When I am with the Jews, I become one of them so that I can bring them to Christ. When I am with those who follow the Jewish laws, I do the same, even though I am not subject to the law, so that I can bring them to Christ. 1 Corinthians 9:20

...I am not subject to the law

Did Paul say that he was not subject to the law?

Yes, Paul said he was not subject to the law.

Which law was Paul not subject to?

The Jewish law, [the law of Moses] or the law of Christ?

The law of Christ.

When I am with the Gentiles who do not have the Jewish law, I fit in with them as much as I can. In this way, I gain their confidence and bring them to Christ. But I do not discard the law of God; I obey the law of Christ. 1 Corinthians 9:21


Which law are you subject to, Jethro?

The law of Moses or the law of Christ.


JLB

 

[Obadiah]

OK, enough of the bickering. Let's give some other people a chance to discuss this.

 

[Deborah13]

imo from my understanding of what has been said...
Jethro is right in that Paul observed some of the things that the Jews did in order to say to them...I am free to continue doing these things and so are you but doing them will not justify you.

JLB is right in saying that Paul did not have to do those things in order to be justified but he did them in order to bring the Gospel to the Jews.

It's funny but this makes me think of another thread. The people now a days that don't acknowledge Paul's teachings is because he said what he did about the Law being made obsolete. They have received the Gospel message of salvation but they mix the message with the works of the law for justification. They put new wine in old wine skins.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Be observant in order to show people they don't have to be observant? How does that work? I would be like, "dude, you're being observant, but you want me to listen to you say that we don't have to be, and that actually we shouldn't be doing this?"

We establish the law of God, that is written in our hearts: Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31; http://biblehub.com/niv/2_corinthians/3.htm