Where in scripture did Paul tell the Thessalonians they would be caught straight up and never go to the grave and sleep. I need scripture for this please so I can read it for myself.
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The Mark of the Beast and the Seal of God - Part One
- Thread starter new covenant preacher
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Where in scripture did Paul tell the Thessalonians they would be caught straight up and never go to the grave and sleep. I need scripture for this please so I can read it for myself.
He does, but not the way you are presenting it.
Corn Pop
Member
and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The dead rise first, thats called the ressurection, then after the ressurection Paul and the Thessalonians, those who were still alive after Christ raised the dead, would be caught up in the clouds together to meet the Lord.
And the same applies today, we get caught up.
No one dies anymore and gets a white robe and is told to wait. We all shall be caught up and be with the Lord forever.
As soon as someone dies they are now ressurected.
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We are not caught up with them to the clouds, but caught up with them who come in the clouds
Big difference. And you missed the fact that Christ returns for a 1000 year reign on earth with the Siants
No one is taken to Heaven[/QUOTE]
No, you missed what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:51-57 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and what was revealed to John in Rev Chapter 19,20.
Also read Ecclesiastes 12:7; Matthew 10:28 and John 3:13 as no one has ever gone to heaven as it is only our spirit/soul/breath that goes back to God who gave it.
Think about what you are suggesting here. If Jesus is God, which most Christians affirm and He sits at the right hand of God.
THEN THERE ARE TWO GODS PERIOD!
Or we can look at the true intended meaning of the right hand of God without the words changed to support this strange new doctrine.
The right hand of God is in reference to the glorious power of the creator of Heaven and earth. Our saving grace by means of Christ’s mighty and miraculous works, as well as His righteous wrath on the ungodly, are attributes of the right hand of God.
Ex 15:6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy.
The right hand of God is a metaphor describing the incredible and majestic power of God.
Psa 48:10 According to thy name, O God, so is thy praise unto the ends of the earth: thy right hand is full of righteousness.
The right hand of God is symbolic of the righteousness of the Lord that strengthens us, and holds us up (Isa 41:10).
Isa 48:13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
The right hand of God is a figure of speech from the Creator who spoke the world into existence (Gen 1:3-27).
Yahshua, our Messiah said “you shall see the Son of man sitting gloriously as the right hand of power”. The right hand of God will also come again in the clouds of heaven (Mark 14:61-62).
Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
The words sat on, in the verse above are translated incorrectly. In cannot be said, that our Lord sat on the right hand of God; this is to suggest that we are talking about two separate Gods.
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
When Isaiah says prepare the way of the Lord (Yahweh), a highway for God (Elohim), he is not speaking of two God’s.
Mat 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
John in the desert is speaking of this same Lord that Isaiah is referring to.[/QUOTE]
Well, if you do not want to believe scripture then I have nothing more to say to you. John 3:13 is pretty clear. You might want to study the Trinity.
I'm a little confused. Are you saying that the Thessalonians and Paul have already been resurrected and given white robes and are now in heaven with Jesus as this would go against what is written in John 3:13.
Corn Pop
Member
I will try explain when i can get it to make sense. Lol.
At that time in John 3 no man had been in heaven. Thats what it says yes. But that doesnt mean those words are forever, just at that time.
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I would think that since Jesus himself said this that if it wasn't forever He would have also said that all who die from this day forth will not go to the grave, but will immediately ascend into heaven. If this the case then all who have died that are of faith have never been buried in the grave.
Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
We return to the dust of the ground when this physical body dies and our breath/spirit returns to God as we wait for Gods final judgment.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Our spirit can never die and is preserved until Gods final judgment on the last day when Christ returns, John 6:40.
Corn Pop
Member
All who have died went to the grave. Jesus return was to bring Judgement and Salvation and give the Kingdom to God right.
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kiwidan,
Everyone who has already died and will continue to do so until Christ returns at the seventh trump of Gods wrath on those who refuse to repent during the greatest tribulation this world has ever seen nor will ever see again, Matthew 24: 29-31, Rev 1:7, will lay in the grave. It's only when Christ returns and gathers His Bride to Him (those alive and dead) 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, that Gods judgement will come as the books will be opened and all judged from them, Rev 20:11-15. "Jesus return was to being
Just out of curiosity, do you think Christ has already returned as you said "Jesus return was to bring Judgement and Salvation and give the Kingdom to God right."
Everyone who has already died and will continue to do so until Christ returns at the seventh trump of Gods wrath on those who refuse to repent during the greatest tribulation this world has ever seen nor will ever see again, Matthew 24: 29-31, Rev 1:7, will lay in the grave. It's only when Christ returns and gathers His Bride to Him (those alive and dead) 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, that Gods judgement will come as the books will be opened and all judged from them, Rev 20:11-15. "Jesus return was to being
Just out of curiosity, do you think Christ has already returned as you said "Jesus return was to bring Judgement and Salvation and give the Kingdom to God right."
Corn Pop
Member
I still have more homework to do. The reason I am lead to believe Jesus returned is because of what is written in scripture and what he told people. He said to them directly they would see his coming and all the signs, and Paul was speaking to people at that time and revelation was given to people at that time things that would short pass. So im not sure I can apply any end times to a future generation, even as Jesus also said that generation would not pass until the Son of Man comes on the clouds.
My view leads to he has already returned and we have the testimony of all God's work and live under Gods salvation.
ezrider
Member
Can I ask a simple question? Do you believe that Christ has come to dwell within your heart, so that you are the temple of God?
Physically no, Spiritually yes, but I'm talking about His second coming after the seven vial judgements and then the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, Rev Chapter 19, when He comes back and we are gathered to Him those alive and those who sleep in the grave to be with Christ forever in the New Jerusalem, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
After Jesus was resurrected on the third day He did not immediately ascend to Heaven, but actually showed himself to His disciples plus also to around 500 people before He ascended up to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father, 1 Corinthians 15:1-8.
Acts 1:1-11 Corinthians 15:1-8 says that when Jesus was resurrected on the third day He did not immediately ascend up to heaven, but showed Himself to His disciples, plus over 500 people continuing to speak to them before He ascended up to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. Just as those men in Galilee watched as Jesus was taken up as they would see Him in all His glory so will all see Jesus in all His glory when He returns in the air, but no man nor even the angels in heaven, but the Father only will know when this will be, Matthew 24:36.
Jesus gave us signs to look for outlined in Matthew 24, but these would be future events that the disciples would be led to believe would happen in their own lifetime, but yet we are still waiting for His glorious return when those who are alive and remain until His coming and those who are in the grave will here His voice and be gathered to him as this is the first resurrection Rev 20:4-6. This will not happen until mystery Babylon is revealed and then destroyed as then the beast and the false prophet will be cast into the lake of fire, Rev Chapter 17-19.
th1b.taylor
Member
Thank you for that. In my speaking with Dan I noted for him, his removal of the scriptures from their context and context being imperative to understanding any text, from a Murder Mystery Novel to the Scriptures of the Bible., on text must be observed or there will be no understanding.
So many pick and choose one or just a few verses that seem to make sense to them, but they never seem to read above, below or the complete chapter to understand what God is speaking to us. I use to do that and boy did I miss a lot of understanding of the whole teaching.
Corn Pop
Member
You mean like pick one or two scriptures to make a rapture theory?. True that.
Jesus said to the diciples all the end times they would witness.
You will be persecuted Jesus said to his diciples. In acts it says there was a huge persecution on the diciples.
This generation will not pass away till all these things be fulfilled. That generation did not pass until they were all fullfilled.
You will see Jerusalem surrounded by an Army said Jesus. The lasting believers in that generation seen Roman Army surrounded Jerusalem.
The gospel will be preached to all nations as a witness Jesus said to his diciples. Paul said the word of the gospel surely went out to the ends of the earth.
The temple will be levelled. The temple was levelled.
...and so on so on.
All in a single chapter
But hey, people think the scripture was for there witness in 2017 because they seek signs even Jesus told others they would witness the end of the age and his coming.
Jesus told his diciples and others they would see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom and gave all the signs.
The Kingdom comes without observation. But Jesus gave his diciples all the signs.
"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:"
There is no add or take away from revelation, if there was then maybe some Prophet would have wrote salvation has come to the world and there would be another book, but there is no need, because the book of Revelation is complete in its fullness.
Jesus returns and gives the Kingdom to God.
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th1b.taylor
Member
But Dan, the words between, all reflect on the meaning of these scriptures and as I have explained, scripture, no scripture, can be correctly understood without the light of all other scripture and shining on it and you are ignoring the truth that Jesus qualified the generation He was speaking of in a manor similar to the parables so that each generation would embrace it and live a godly lives.
That being a truth, I do believe that because the Fig Tree, Israel, bloomed again on May 14, 1948, I believe, marking the generation He was speaking of and I believe that generation may, very well, be the generation of the War Babies of WW II. But if I am wrong, so what, I work at living for God and that is not a bad thing.
And as I have already explained to you, prophecy is often fulfilled more than once. The prophecy found in the Book of Obidiah about Edom has been fulfilled twice and is being fulfilled the third time. First it was Edom, then it was Rome and now it is the U.S.
Yes, plus like you are doing here with not posting any scriptures, but giving your own interpretations.
This generation means generational line of those who follow Christ and endure all things until the end of days and Christ returns.
Matthew, Mark and Luke are three disciples who wrote of the same witness as they testify of what Jesus gave as answers to the three questions the disciples asked Him. When shall these things be? What shall be the sign of they coming and the end of the world? Matthew 24:3
The first thing Jesus proceeds to tell them is that there would never be another physical Temple of God built again and then proceeds to speak of the beginning of sorrows, Matthew 24:4-8, Rev 6:1-17, and not to be deceived nor be troubled for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Matthew 24:9-26 Jesus tells the disciples of the afflicting trials and tribulations that the abomination of desolations that Daniel spoke of, Daniel Chapter 7, 9, 11; Rev Chapter 13, that they must endure all the persecutions even to death while preaching the Gospel, Matthew 10:28, during the six seals, seven trumpets and seven vial judgments until Christ returns.
Jerusalem has been destroyed twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times and even now under
Yes, plus like you are doing here with not posting any scriptures, but giving your own interpretations.
This generation means generational line of those who follow Christ and endure all things until the end of days and Christ returns.
Matthew, Mark and Luke are three disciples who wrote of the same witness as they testify of what Jesus gave as answers to the three questions the disciples asked Him. When shall these things be? What shall be the sign of they coming and the end of the world? Matthew 24:3
The first thing Jesus proceeds to tell them is that there would never be another physical Temple of God built again and then proceeds to speak of the beginning of sorrows, Matthew 24:4-8, Rev 6:1-17, and not to be deceived nor be troubled for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Matthew 24:9-26 Jesus tells the disciples of the afflicting trials and tribulations that the abomination of desolations that Daniel spoke of, Daniel Chapter 7, 9, 11; Rev Chapter 13, that they must endure all the persecutions even to death while preaching the Gospel, Matthew 10:28, during the six seals, seven trumpets and seven vial judgments until Christ returns.
Jerusalem has been destroyed twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times and will continue until Christ returns.