the military is not biblical practice

[shad]

Luke 6:27-36 (King James Version)

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.

32For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.

35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

 

[shad]

Why is not Jesus' most noble commandment is not being practice by most churches?

Christianity is a way of life, folks. Let's walk the walk, not talk the talk, shall we?

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[kevkelsar]

Hmmm, it's an interesting point of view, but I believe you are missing a critical aspect of the subject. Defending ones life or family against immediate danger/peril is justified. I believe the military is protecting our lives and our families in many more ways than we understand. If it wasn't for our military force in this country, we would probably be a third world country in poverty in complete subjection to some other country/dictator that disregards any belief in God. That lifestyle would most likely eliminate just about every comfort we enjoy in life (heating/AC, cars, computers, internet, washing/drying machines, etc.).

If you don't believe me, then take some time to visit a third world country and study their history.

 

[shad]

Hmmm, it's an interesting point of view, but I believe you are missing a critical aspect of the subject. Defending ones life or family against immediate danger/peril is justified. I believe the military is protecting our lives and our families in many more ways than we understand. If it wasn't for our military force in this country, we would probably be a third world country in poverty in complete subjection to some other country/dictator that disregards any belief in God. That lifestyle would most likely eliminate just about every comfort we enjoy in life (heating/AC, cars, computers, internet, washing/drying machines, etc.).

If you don't believe me, then take some time to visit a third world country and study their history.

So you disregard Jesus' commandment for protection of your country? Isn't Jesus for all the world? It seems that your view is for your country's perspective.

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[Drew]

That lifestyle would most likely eliminate just about every comfort we enjoy in life (heating/AC, cars, computers, internet, washing/drying machines, etc.).

And where do the scriptures tell us that we are entitled to such things?

 

[kevkelsar]

So we should just get rid of the military, pray to God, and hope the wackos (the true evil) in this world that want to wipe our country off the face of the earth won't nuke us? Good luck with that.

 

[shad]

So we should just get rid of the military, pray to God, and hope the wackos (the true evil) in this world that want to wipe our country off the face of the earth won't nuke us? Good luck with that.

Who put you in the position to judge other nations who dont get along with you as evil?

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[kevkelsar]

That lifestyle would most likely eliminate just about every comfort we enjoy in life (heating/AC, cars, computers, internet, washing/drying machines, etc.).

And where do the scriptures tell us that we are entitled to such things?

Entitled? I never said we are entitled. But through our ingenuity and hard work we have invented these technologies, including all the life saving medical technologies. We pretty much freely share all this information with the rest of the world. We are a humanitarian country that does so much good in this world, including protecting the basic freedoms (including freedom of religion) of people throughout the world from those who are just plain evil. And, yes, I know the country has made some mistakes over the years. That's to be expected when humans are in control of something.

 

[kevkelsar]

So we should just get rid of the military, pray to God, and hope the wackos (the true evil) in this world that want to wipe our country off the face of the earth won't nuke us? Good luck with that.

Who put you in the position to judge other nations who dont get along with you as evil?

Who put you in the position to judge other nations as not evil? I'm sorry, this question is a bit silly. Evil is obvious. If you are a Christian, you know what evil is. It's one thing to "not get along with" others, it's another to seek the complete obliteration and hatred of another people.

 

[cyberjosh]

This is a very interesting conversation to me. I have a book called "Nonviolence: The History of a Dangerous Idea" and it talks about the history of those who refused military service all through out history and even through the middle ages when wars and crusades were common. The author shows how becoming a monk and retreating to a monastery in the middle ages was the only way to escape military service. I also have a book of early Church Father quotations organized by topic and under "military" it is clear that the early Church believed it was wrong to enroll in military service (especially for the Romans).

At the same time I do see a necessity and approval in the Bible for self defense. The main qualm the Church had with military service is that you could be deployed on the offensive at the state's whims against another nation. We need military presence for defense but offense becomes a very sketchy matter. This is a brief summary of my attempt at a balanced view on this topic.

~Josh

 

[shad]

Entitled? I never said we are entitled. But through our ingenuity and hard work we have invented these technologies, including all the life saving medical technologies. We pretty much freely share all this information with the rest of the world. We are a humanitarian country that does so much good in this world, including protecting the basic freedoms (including freedom of religion) of people throughout the world from those who are just plain evil. And, yes, I know the country has made some mistakes over the years. That's to be expected when humans are in control of something.

This is rather convenient opinion of wealthy country like USA. This is very arrogant, IMHO.

BTW, Aren't you Jesus' follower? Why do you emphasize so much worldly point of view? Jesus' followers are supposed to spread God's kingdom. Jesus' followers are free in Christ without worldly wealth.

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[shad]

Who put you in the position to judge other nations as not evil? I'm sorry, this question is a bit silly. Evil is obvious.

When it comes to nation VS nation, it is not obvious. How do you know what is going on in between the countries? Because your media and your politicians say so?

Do you know that many innocent people are involved in wars? Do you think Jesus approves of killing any innocent ones just because leaders hate each other?
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[shad]

Josh,

Please read above my comment.

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[kevkelsar]

So, it's okay to let a ruthless dictator (Saddam Hussein, for example) that keeps the majority of his country in poverty and slaughters millions of innocent people just keep going on with his dictatorship?

Or how about those countries that refuse to let any Christian preachers into their country (which are usually the same types of dictators I just described)? Don't those people deserve the right to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, too? Yet, they can't, because their leader does not let them.

So, take your pick. Liberate an oppressed people by an evil dictator and all those who follow him ( only because he gives them perks) and accept that there will be hundreds or thousands of innocent civilian casualties in the process, and in the end work for a free country where the Gospel can be preached. Or do nothing, and let the dictator and his followers continue slaughtering hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of innocent people and never let them have the Gospel preached to them.

Because I can guarantee you, the only way to remove those types of dictatorships or regimes is by force. You may think you can get somewhere by negotiations with them, but in the end they will take advantage of you, lie to you, and stab you in the back.

 

[shad]

Or how about those countries that refuse to let any Christian preachers into their country (which are usually the same types of dictators I just described)?

Jesus is for every country, His followers are all over the world. How do you know they are not in your enemy's country. There are many underground christians everywhere. How about the children? They dont know anything about the politics adults play.

Because I can guarantee you, the only way to remove those types of dictatorships or regimes is by force. You may think you can get somewhere by negotiations with them, but in the end they will take advantage of you, lie to you, and stab you in the back.

You are talking politics, Jesus' followers are ought to stay off politics. His followers are not of this world. You should know that, friend.

 

[kevkelsar]

We aren't of this world, but we do live in it along with all the realities/ugliness/tragedies that come along with living in it. I promise, if we didn't have a military to defend us, we would not exist right now. And sometimes part of defending is going out and preventing/stopping what evil plans are being made against us and others in the world. Just waiting to act will likely result in being too late.

 

[shad]

We aren't of this world, but we do live in it along with all the realities/ugliness/tragedies that come along with living in it. I promise, if we didn't have a military to defend us, we would not exist right now. And sometimes part of defending is going out and preventing/stopping what evil plans are being made against us and others in the world. Just waiting to act will likely result in being too late.

So you continually disregard Jesus' commandment. Jesus' commandments stay the same no matter what the world does, friend. Your faith is no different from the world point of view.

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[kevkelsar]

There is a difference between following the letter of the law and following the spirit of the law. A huge difference. If the US military were going around the world to take over countries, then I would wholeheartedly agree that does not follow biblical practice. That is not the case, we have the military to defend ourselves.

The children of Israel were commanded not to kill when Moses received the ten commandments. Yet, they were commanded by God to attack and remove certain civilizations from lands that God promised to them. Obviously, it is not as black and white as you are making it out to be. You cannot take one single statement/verse from the Bible and focus just on that to understand certain principles or doctrines. To understand scripture, you must take into account ALL scripture, including their context.

 

[shad]

There is a difference between following the letter of the law and following the spirit of the law. A huge difference. If the US military were going around the world to take over countries, then I would wholeheartedly agree that does not follow biblical practice. That is not the case, we have the military to defend ourselves.

You are obviously American before Jesus' follower.

I am done with you.

take care.

 

[kevkelsar]

On the contrary, I am a follower of Jesus before an American. Are you suggesting my previous post is false about the army of Israel and how to understand scripture? What makes you so sure you are right about the military? What makes you so sure that there isn't something you are missing withing ALL the teachings in scripture?

I am sorry, but simply stating one verse/phrase from the Bible does not bring a conclusion. As I stated before, you must take ALL of scripture into account to understand what is being taught. In fact, it's the taking of single scriptures out of context that leads to so much confusion and differences in doctrines amongst Christian religions.