The Muslim or the Christian?

[elijah23]

Jesus gave us two commandments to obey: to love the Lord with all our hearts, souls, and minds, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. If a Muslim succeeds in obeying these two commandments and a Christian fails, which will go to heaven?

 

[Pard]

Jesus gave us two commandments to obey: to love the Lord with all our hearts, souls, and minds, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. If a Muslim succeeds in obeying these two commandments and a Christian fails, which will go to heaven?

The Christian.

9"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

10"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

It is through Jesus Christ that we may enter Heaven, not through good deeds or good will towards men, but through Jesus. He is the Door and only those who go through Him may know God, His Father.

However, a Christian who has accepted Jesus Christ will not do evil deeds because the Holy Spirit lives within him. Alright, that's not all true. When you accept Jesus you receive the Spirit and it changes who you are, and you become a new person unto Jesus

 

[elijah23]

Why did Jesus give us commandments?

 

[elijah23]

I think a person might be kidding themselves is they think a Muslim who obeys the commandments of Jesus will go to hell, while a Christian who disobeys those commandments will go to heaven, don’t you?

 

[Vic C.]

Ok, if we are being honest here, I firmly believe anyone who believes salvation can be achieved apart from Jesus Christ is deluding themselves and doing other souls a great injustice by telling them otherwise.

Why did Jesus give us commandments?

The Commandments were given to man to reveal to us our sin nature.
One can be saved through Jesus and still be guilty of breaking a commandment. One can be saved by earnestly trying to hold up the commandments AND by salvation through Jesus, but not by the commandments alone. If that were the case, why does Hebrews tells us the New Covenant is superior to the old one?

Why was Paul chosen to spread the Gospel to the Gentiles? Could you tell us what Paul's gospel message was to the Gentile nations?

 

[Pard]

I think a person might be kidding themselves is they think a Muslim who obeys the commandments of Jesus will go to hell, while a Christian who disobeys those commandments will go to heaven, don’t you?

You better inform every Christian you see... and then go and edit every Bible, because (not kidding at all) it is our belief that salvation can only be achieved through Jesus Christ. This is why He died for us, so that we may be saved and join Him and His Father in Heaven!

 

[Mysteryman]

Jesus said that my sheep hear my voice. The Word also tells us, that many are called, but few are chosen.

There is no way in which someone who has not been called or chosen, going to hear the voice of the Lord.

We as his sheep not only hear his voice, but also follow the shepherd, because we know who our shepherd is by his calling us.

Those not called nor chosen, are not lost . God so loved the Word, that he gave his only begotten Son, and whosever believeth in him shall not perish , but have everlasting life.

Where people get confused with this statement, is in the usage of the word "persih". Most think that this means that they go to hell. But that is not true. The wore "persih" is a bad translation. It should be rendered - "shall not be loosed or loosened". Which means , that we who believe in him, shall be gathered together.

We are held accountable to that which God has given us. The more we are given, the more we are held accountable by God. So be careful for what you believe . :D

 

[francisdesales]

Ok, if we are being honest here, I firmly believe anyone who believes salvation can be achieved apart from Jesus Christ is deluding themselves and doing other souls a great injustice by telling them otherwise.

The Logos is found in the hearts of all men - the Logos that manifested Himself most FULLY as Jesus Christ. Yes, the Son of God saves and ONLY God saves men. But those who have Love are born from God, and their knowledge of the Logos, albeit crude compared to Christianity, is indeed a knowledge worthy of what God desires from us - to seek Him out and have faith in Him. The Logos and the Spirit of God writes upon the hearts of men a Law - and some do follow this Law, which, by the grace of God, can yield salvation (Romans 2), even if the person has no clue of who Jesus of Nazareth was.

No one apart from the Logos can be saved - and this Logos, for us, is Jesus Christ. Would you not think that the Logos could manifest Himself at a lesser level to other men, whom God ALSO desires to save?

Why was Paul chosen to spread the Gospel to the Gentiles? Could you tell us what Paul's gospel message was to the Gentile nations?

Because God desires that we know the truth, and the coming of the Logos as Jesus Christ firmly manifests God's love for mankind and presents a solid body of teachings and ethics that men can follow by the gift of the Spirit of this Logos. The formation of the Church, planned from the dawn of time, is the city on the hill that manifests the glory of God.

Regards

 

[Tina]

.

No one apart from the Logos can be saved - and this Logos, for us, is Jesus Christ. Would you not think that the Logos could manifest Himself at a lesser level to other men, whom God ALSO desires to save?

What "lesser level", .. and where is it found in the Bible ? ..

 

[francisdesales]

.

No one apart from the Logos can be saved - and this Logos, for us, is Jesus Christ. Would you not think that the Logos could manifest Himself at a lesser level to other men, whom God ALSO desires to save?

What "lesser level", .. and where is it found in the Bible ? ..

Romans 1 - all men know of God
Romans 2 - some men have the law written on their hearts and are saved.
1 John - those who love are born of God.

These are just off the top of my head. Do you require more?

How about the entire OT? Doesn't the NT even vouch for that idea in Hebrews, that God has manifested Himself ESPECIALLY "most recently" with the Christ, but even before, to the Jews?

Regards

 

[elijah23]

Ok, if we are being honest here, I firmly believe anyone who believes salvation can be achieved apart from Jesus Christ is deluding themselves and doing other souls a great injustice by telling them otherwise.

Why did Jesus give us commandments?

The Commandments were given to man to reveal to us our sin nature.
One can be saved through Jesus and still be guilty of breaking a commandment. One can be saved by earnestly trying to hold up the commandments AND by salvation through Jesus, but not by the commandments alone. If that were the case, why does Hebrews tells us the New Covenant is superior to the old one?

Why was Paul chosen to spread the Gospel to the Gentiles? Could you tell us what Paul's gospel message was to the Gentile nations?

Paul’s writings in the Bible are extensive. I have read all of them more than once.

I am troubled that Christianity is not centered around the teachings of Jesus, seemingly. They are centered around Paul. Paul says all the law rests on one commandment—that you love your neighbor as yourself. Jesus said all the law rests on two commandments—first, that you love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and second, that you love your neighbor as yourself. Who, then, do I believe—Jesus or Paul? I believe Jesus.

Yes, Jesus will be there to save us throughout all eternity. John 3:16 tells us so. But if you want to enter heaven, you have to repent of your sin, I believe:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

 

[elijah23]

I think a person might be kidding themselves is they think a Muslim who obeys the commandments of Jesus will go to hell, while a Christian who disobeys those commandments will go to heaven, don’t you?

You better inform every Christian you see... and then go and edit every Bible, because (not kidding at all) it is our belief that salvation can only be achieved through Jesus Christ. This is why He died for us, so that we may be saved and join Him and His Father in Heaven!

Jesus, and only Jesus, can save us. However, being saved and going to heaven are two different things, I believe. You have to repent of your sin to go to heaven.

 

[elijah23]

Something needs to be pointed out here.

If a Muslim obeys and loves the Lord, but does it by your definition of the Lord (i.e. you beleive Jesus(AS) and God are one in the same), then this Muslim has just left the fold of Islam.

Conversely it is true in Islam, If a Christian beleives in one God and accepts Muhamed(SAW) as His last Messenger, the christian can be considered a Muslim, but only after abandoning the belief that Jesus(AS) is God.

So the question is only valid if you take Jesus(AS) as God out of the question.

If one beleives in ONE God and follows the ten commandments, that person has a chance of entering Heaven according to Islam.

I believe in one God. I believe that God took the form of a human being, Jesus, to come to earth to teach and die for our sins.

 

[Tina]

.

Salvation is available in Jesus alone. It was Jesus’ death on the cross and subsequent resurrection that achieved our salvation. Scripture is clear that salvation is the gracious, undeserved gift of God and is only available through faith in Jesus Christ.


John 3:17
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Romans 5:10
For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

Ephesians 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Ephesians 2:5-8
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Acts 4:12
Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

Romans 10:9-13
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.†For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.â€

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

 

[elijah23]

And if a Muslim also beleives that, he is no longer Muslim, so your question is inherently flawed

Did the Lord intend for us all to be Muslims or all to be Christians?

 

[elijah23]

Salvation is available in Jesus alone. It was Jesus’ death on the cross and subsequent resurrection that achieved our salvation. Scripture is clear that salvation is the gracious, undeserved gift of God and is only available through faith in Jesus Christ.

Yes, only the Lord saves. I don’t think that’s the same as going to heaven, though. I think salvation refers to getting us out of the messes we create for ourselves when we disobey the Lord. Heaven is peace of mind brought on by righteousness.

 

[elijah23]

[quote="Mujahid Abdullah":200ga6wk]And if a Muslim also beleives that, he is no longer Muslim, so your question is inherently flawed

Did the Lord intend for us all to be Muslims or all to be Christians?

I do not claim to know what Allah intends, but I know that He has told us there will be people who are not going to be Muslim.

Everyone has an opportunity to become Muslim, those people who dont, will be held responsible on the day of Judgement. As for those people who never received Islam, they will be entered into Heaven with no Judgement.[/quote:200ga6wk]
Jesus told us there are two great commandments. We are to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and we are to love our neighbors as ourselves. All the law and prophets are based on these two commandments, he said.

If you and I obey these two commandments, I think we will go to heaven.

 

[Tina]

.

Yes, only the Lord saves. I don’t think that’s the same as going to heaven, though. I think salvation refers to getting us out of the messes we create for ourselves when we disobey the Lord. Heaven is peace of mind brought on by righteousness.

Then how do you interprete the following Scripture ... "sit together in heavenly places in Christ ..."


Ephesians 2:5-8
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.

 

[elijah23]

.

Yes, only the Lord saves. I don’t think that’s the same as going to heaven, though. I think salvation refers to getting us out of the messes we create for ourselves when we disobey the Lord. Heaven is peace of mind brought on by righteousness.

Then how do you interprete the following Scripture ... "sit together in heavenly places in Christ ..."


Ephesians 2:5-8
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God.

Yes, the Lord saves, but we aren’t in heaven until we repent of our sin, I don’t think.

 

[Tina]

.

Jesus told us there are two great commandments. We are to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and we are to love our neighbors as ourselves. All the law and prophets are based on these two commandments, he said.

If you and I obey these two commandments, I think we will go to heaven.

I'm afraid you think wrong !!

The SAME JESUS also said this ....


John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."


Don't just pick and choose scriptures to suit your own limited understanding !