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The Muslim or the Christian?

jasoncran said:
elijah23 said:
jasoncran said:
the bible describes heaven in part see revalation.
Does Revelation say that heaven is not a clear conscience?
it describes heaven as the dwelling place of the lord, and also his holiness and the judgments. it also using a lot imagery that has a meaning to it that is to be taken literally.

ezekiel saw visions of the lord, so did john, daniel , isaih. all trembled and quaked.
We can use imagery to describe what goes on in the mind, can we not? The waters in the following verse, I think , describe what goes on in people’s minds:

[6] Therefore let every one who is godly
offer prayer to thee;
at a time of distress, in the rush of great waters,
they shall not reach him. Psalms 32:6 RSV
 
In Revelation, water sometimes refers to people.

Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
 
Quite an interesting thread.

I think we all need to remember to be respectful to each other when posting comments, as I've seen some slander being posted here.

We also need to remember that we are nothing without Christ, so our comments should be to glorify God, not be some kind of knowledge barometer of how much we know, as if we are great ourselves. We should build each other up in the faith, and do all we can to help one another.

To Elijah:

I understand where you're coming from, and you're right, that to love God and your neighbour is the greatest we can do, but in order to do so, Christ must be at the center of our hearts. It is the Fathers will, not ours, that is fundamental. Our thought should not be on heaven but on pleasing the Father.
 
jasoncran said:
yes in that area ,yes, that is a hebrew poetry, but in revalation no like peotry is found.
If the imagery in the verse from Psalms that I quoted you is descriptive of what happens in the mind—not images of the earth—then why can’t it be true of other parts of the Bible, including Revelation, and why can it only take place in poetry?

I suspect the New Jerusalem mentioned in Revelation is the peace of righteousness—not a thing descending from above.
 
Lloyd81 said:
Quite an interesting thread.

I think we all need to remember to be respectful to each other when posting comments, as I've seen some slander being posted here.

We also need to remember that we are nothing without Christ, so our comments should be to glorify God, not be some kind of knowledge barometer of how much we know, as if we are great ourselves. We should build each other up in the faith, and do all we can to help one another.

To Elijah:

I understand where you're coming from, and you're right, that to love God and your neighbour is the greatest we can do, but in order to do so, Christ must be at the center of our hearts. It is the Fathers will, not ours, that is fundamental. Our thought should not be on heaven but on pleasing the Father.
We have our needs—both physical and emotional—but the Lord takes care of our needs, far better than we could ourselves. The best thing we can do is try to do the Lord’s will at all times, right?
 
elijah23 said:
jasoncran said:
yes in that area ,yes, that is a hebrew poetry, but in revalation no like peotry is found.
If the imagery in the verse from Psalms that I quoted you is descriptive of what happens in the mind—not images of the earth—then why can’t it be true of other parts of the Bible, including Revelation, and why can it only take place in poetry?

I suspect the New Jerusalem mentioned in Revelation is the peace of righteousness—not a thing descending from above.
no it sends that john saw from a high mountain descending to the earth.

if that the case was the very cross an image?
 
jasoncran said:
no it sends that john saw from a high mountain descending to the earth.

if that the case was the very cross an image?
Early in Revelation John says he “was in the Spirit.â€

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet Rev 1:10 RSV
 
elijah23 said:
Lloyd81 said:
Quite an interesting thread.

I think we all need to remember to be respectful to each other when posting comments, as I've seen some slander being posted here.

We also need to remember that we are nothing without Christ, so our comments should be to glorify God, not be some kind of knowledge barometer of how much we know, as if we are great ourselves. We should build each other up in the faith, and do all we can to help one another.

To Elijah:

I understand where you're coming from, and you're right, that to love God and your neighbour is the greatest we can do, but in order to do so, Christ must be at the center of our hearts. It is the Fathers will, not ours, that is fundamental. Our thought should not be on heaven but on pleasing the Father.
We have our needs—both physical and emotional—but the Lord takes care of our needs, far better than we could ourselves. The best thing we can do is try to do the Lord’s will at all times, right?

Yep .. Gods will, not ours. To do the will of the Lord, to allow Christ to live through us.
 
elijah23 said:
jasoncran said:
no it sends that john saw from a high mountain descending to the earth.

if that the case was the very cross an image?
Early in Revelation John says he “was in the Spirit.â€

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet Rev 1:10 RSV
lol, i am pentacostal, that to me means that the lord gave him a vision

daniel saw the same visions(some) as john

can the vision be a literal one yes!

he took me to a mountain. and set me there. hard to say that aint literal in context.
 
jasoncran said:
lol, i am pentacostal, that to me means that the lord gave him a vision

daniel saw the same visions(some) as john

can the vision be a literal one yes!

he took me to a mountain. and set me there. hard to say that aint literal in context.
If the Lord gives me a vision, and if during the vision he places me on a mountain, then is that mountain a geographic mountain from this world, or is it a mountain created merely for the purposes of the vision?
 
Jesus gave us two commandments to obey: to love the Lord with all our hearts, souls, and minds, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. If a Muslim succeeds in obeying these two commandments and a Christian fails, which will go to heaven?

Well - NEITHER ONE OF THEM will perfectly obey the commandment. No human ever has - except one.

BUT -

The "Christian" (if he's a REAL CHristian) will make it into "Heaven", Because he's forgiven, and justified by faith in the shed blood of Jesus - so it's not HIS righteousness that's seen - but that of Jesus.

And it doesn't really matter WHAT the Muslim does since his "Religion" denies the need for a savior, has only a "good works" provision for salvation - which doesn't work, of course.

AND, of course since he's completely selfish like all humanity (including "Christians") is, obeying the commandments will be impossible to him -

SImple as that.
 
elijah23 said:
jasoncran said:
lol, i am pentacostal, that to me means that the lord gave him a vision

daniel saw the same visions(some) as john

can the vision be a literal one yes!

he took me to a mountain. and set me there. hard to say that aint literal in context.
If the Lord gives me a vision, and if during the vision he places me on a mountain, then is that mountain a geographic mountain from this world, or is it a mountain created merely for the purposes of the vision?
often the person will know. i have seen visions of the housing bubble and where it was going to build in my county, and it came to pass.
 
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