The Muslim or the Christian?

[Mysteryman]

Hi

Why ? Because that is what the verse means ! If one studies the scriptures, you will notice, or should at least, that when this verse was spoken, it was intended to have them repent, because the phrase -- "The kingdom of heaven is at hand" is talking about the last battle.

My experience is that when I repented of certain sins I was committing, my problems all but vanished. This, I believe, IS heaven, and that is why Jesus said, “Repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand.â€

Hi

Believe as you wish, but your believing would be in error. Repenting means changing, not just someone's comment such as "I am sorry" or "Please forgive me please".

Over the last nearly 2000 years, many false teachers have given many false doctrines when it comes to the knowledge of the scriptures. Many have believed their false teachings, and cling to them for whatever reason.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Not some man made tradition or man made doctrine.

 

[elijah23]

Hi

Believe as you wish, but your believing would be in error. Repenting means changing, not just someone's comment such as "I am sorry" or "Please forgive me please".

Over the last nearly 2000 years, many false teachers have given many false doctrines when it comes to the knowledge of the scriptures. Many have believed their false teachings, and cling to them for whatever reason.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Not some man made tradition or man made doctrine.

Yes, repenting means you have to stop sinning.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi

Believe as you wish, but your believing would be in error. Repenting means changing, not just someone's comment such as "I am sorry" or "Please forgive me please".

Over the last nearly 2000 years, many false teachers have given many false doctrines when it comes to the knowledge of the scriptures. Many have believed their false teachings, and cling to them for whatever reason.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Not some man made tradition or man made doctrine.

Yes, repenting means you have to stop sinning.

Hi

Correct, but that alone does not get one into heaven. Again, it is the choice made by God , and it is for a purpose. And has nothing to do with God being partial to certain people and favors them above others. God tells us that he is no respector of persons.

 

[Cheyenne K]

Jesus gave us two commandments to obey: to love the Lord with all our hearts, souls, and minds, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. If a Muslim succeeds in obeying these two commandments and a Christian fails, which will go to heaven?

Well, if one is a Christian, it is already assumed to be established that they have accepted Jesus into their hearts. If one is Muslim, they are worshipping a false god, and therefore have not accepted Jesus. The only possible way for a Muslim to do both is if the Muslim loves his/her "lord." Anything else, as in the Muslim believing in God, would make them not a Muslim. But the only way to the Father is through the Son.

As for the Christian, as that would mean to have Jesus in their heart, they really should love God already from this. Keep in mind, some people claim to be Christians, but are not. In this, I am supposing that the debate is using a true Christian. But, moving on, loving their neighbors is a little more difficult, and being honest, we all fall short of God's glory, no matter how well we obey His commandments. However, with having accepted Jesus into their heart and if they repent their sins, it seems that they will go to Heaven.


Though, keep in mind, this is all for the Lord to decide; not I, or any other human. He knows each person's heart. Humans don't. We can merely attempt to discern what will probably happen.

 

[elijah23]

Hi

Correct, but that alone does not get one into heaven. Again, it is the choice made by God , and it is for a purpose. And has nothing to do with God being partial to certain people and favors them above others. God tells us that he is no respector of persons.

The message Jesus went about preaching was, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.†John the Baptist was doing the same thing. You and I seem to be on the same page regarding this.

It would seem to me the next step then is to define specifically what sin is, so that we know what it is we have to repent of.

 

[elijah23]

Well, if one is a Christian, it is already assumed to be established that they have accepted Jesus into their hearts. If one is Muslim, they are worshipping a false god, and therefore have not accepted Jesus. The only possible way for a Muslim to do both is if the Muslim loves his/her "lord." Anything else, as in the Muslim believing in God, would make them not a Muslim. But the only way to the Father is through the Son.

As for the Christian, as that would mean to have Jesus in their heart, they really should love God already from this. Keep in mind, some people claim to be Christians, but are not. In this, I am supposing that the debate is using a true Christian. But, moving on, loving their neighbors is a little more difficult, and being honest, we all fall short of God's glory, no matter how well we obey His commandments. However, with having accepted Jesus into their heart and if they repent their sins, it seems that they will go to Heaven.


Though, keep in mind, this is all for the Lord to decide; not I, or any other human. He knows each person's heart. Humans don't. We can merely attempt to discern what will probably happen.

Jesus is God in the flesh, is he not? If a Muslim loves God with all his heart, mind, and soul, then maybe he has accepted Jesus.

Meanwhile, if the Christian says he believes in Jesus, but refuses to love God, aren’t his words empty?

 

[Sinthesis]

Well, if one is a Christian, it is already assumed to be established that they have accepted Jesus into their hearts. If one is Muslim, they are worshipping a false god, and therefore have not accepted Jesus. The only possible way for a Muslim to do both is if the Muslim loves his/her "lord." Anything else, as in the Muslim believing in God, would make them not a Muslim. But the only way to the Father is through the Son.

As for the Christian, as that would mean to have Jesus in their heart, they really should love God already from this. Keep in mind, some people claim to be Christians, but are not. In this, I am supposing that the debate is using a true Christian. But, moving on, loving their neighbors is a little more difficult, and being honest, we all fall short of God's glory, no matter how well we obey His commandments. However, with having accepted Jesus into their heart and if they repent their sins, it seems that they will go to Heaven.


Though, keep in mind, this is all for the Lord to decide; not I, or any other human. He knows each person's heart. Humans don't. We can merely attempt to discern what will probably happen.

Jesus is God in the flesh, is he not? If a Muslim loves God with all his heart, mind, and soul, then maybe he has accepted Jesus.

Muslims do not accept that Jesus is God in the flesh. They reject the very idea that God would ever come to earth as the Messiah. It is not enough to just accept that Jesus was a historical figure; even atheists do that. One must believe that Jesus is God, which is impossible within the Muslim faith.

Meanwhile, if the Christian says he believes in Jesus, but refuses to love God, aren’t his words empty?

Yes, there are many 'Christians' who are not Christians.

 

[elijah23]

Well, if one is a Christian, it is already assumed to be established that they have accepted Jesus into their hearts. If one is Muslim, they are worshipping a false god, and therefore have not accepted Jesus. The only possible way for a Muslim to do both is if the Muslim loves his/her "lord." Anything else, as in the Muslim believing in God, would make them not a Muslim. But the only way to the Father is through the Son.

As for the Christian, as that would mean to have Jesus in their heart, they really should love God already from this. Keep in mind, some people claim to be Christians, but are not. In this, I am supposing that the debate is using a true Christian. But, moving on, loving their neighbors is a little more difficult, and being honest, we all fall short of God's glory, no matter how well we obey His commandments. However, with having accepted Jesus into their heart and if they repent their sins, it seems that they will go to Heaven.


Though, keep in mind, this is all for the Lord to decide; not I, or any other human. He knows each person's heart. Humans don't. We can merely attempt to discern what will probably happen.

Jesus is God in the flesh, is he not? If a Muslim loves God with all his heart, mind, and soul, then maybe he has accepted Jesus.

Muslims do not accept that Jesus is God in the flesh. They reject the very idea that God would ever come to earth as the Messiah. It is not enough to just accept that Jesus was a historical figure; even atheists do that. One must believe that Jesus is God, which is impossible within the Muslim faith.

Meanwhile, if the Christian says he believes in Jesus, but refuses to love God, aren’t his words empty?

Yes, there are many 'Christians' who are not Christians.

I’m not so sure. I think Jesus IS God. By believing in God, I think maybe the Muslims and Jews do believe in Jesus, even they don’t yet understand it yet.

 

[Cheyenne K]

Well, if one is a Christian, it is already assumed to be established that they have accepted Jesus into their hearts. If one is Muslim, they are worshipping a false god, and therefore have not accepted Jesus. The only possible way for a Muslim to do both is if the Muslim loves his/her "lord." Anything else, as in the Muslim believing in God, would make them not a Muslim. But the only way to the Father is through the Son.

As for the Christian, as that would mean to have Jesus in their heart, they really should love God already from this. Keep in mind, some people claim to be Christians, but are not. In this, I am supposing that the debate is using a true Christian. But, moving on, loving their neighbors is a little more difficult, and being honest, we all fall short of God's glory, no matter how well we obey His commandments. However, with having accepted Jesus into their heart and if they repent their sins, it seems that they will go to Heaven.


Though, keep in mind, this is all for the Lord to decide; not I, or any other human. He knows each person's heart. Humans don't. We can merely attempt to discern what will probably happen.

Jesus is God in the flesh, is he not? If a Muslim loves God with all his heart, mind, and soul, then maybe he has accepted Jesus.

Meanwhile, if the Christian says he believes in Jesus, but refuses to love God, aren’t his words empty?

I would have to argue that since a Muslim does not believe in the Christian God, she/he cannot love Jesus. So either way, that in itself is pretty empty.

And while a "Christian" may believe, that means nothing. Satan believes in Jesus, but he does not love Him. Chances are, if the "Christian" does not love God, they have not accepted Him to begin with.

 

[elijah23]

I would have to argue that since a Muslim does not believe in the Christian God, she/he cannot love Jesus. So either way, that in itself is pretty empty.

And while a "Christian" may believe, that means nothing. Satan believes in Jesus, but he does not love Him. Chances are, if the "Christian" does not love God, they have not accepted Him to begin with.

How do you know the Muslim doesn’t believe in the same God we do?

 

[Cheyenne K]

How do you know the Muslim doesn’t believe in the same God we do?

On many occasions, the Qur'an contradicts the teachings of both the New and Old Testaments and the religion itself holds different beliefs in some areas where they believe it was commanded by "Allah." How could the same god command one thing and then contradict it so harshly? The Qur'an says one thing; the Bible says another. And both were commanded by the same god? I think not.
Also, historically, Islam had changed many, many times when Muhammad began it. In the beginning, he had stated that polytheism was okay - even if it went against the religion of Islam - until his followers began to dislike such. He also did many things neither Christians or Jews had condoned while under the order of "Allah."
And if you were to ask most Muslims, they do acknowledge the difference in gods.

Also, Jesus had specifically stated that no one came to the Father except through him. Even providing the Muslim believed in the same god, they still would not believe that Jesus was His Son. Therefore, either way, they still would not enter heaven as they were.

 

[Sinthesis]

I would have to argue that since a Muslim does not believe in the Christian God, she/he cannot love Jesus. So either way, that in itself is pretty empty.

And while a "Christian" may believe, that means nothing. Satan believes in Jesus, but he does not love Him. Chances are, if the "Christian" does not love God, they have not accepted Him to begin with.

How do you know the Muslim doesn’t believe in the same God we do?

Because the Allah of Islam is the "greatest deceiver".

 

[elijah23]

I would have to argue that since a Muslim does not believe in the Christian God, she/he cannot love Jesus. So either way, that in itself is pretty empty.

And while a "Christian" may believe, that means nothing. Satan believes in Jesus, but he does not love Him. Chances are, if the "Christian" does not love God, they have not accepted Him to begin with.

How do you know the Muslim doesn’t believe in the same God we do?

Because the Allah of Islam is the "greatest deceiver".

How do you know? I thought the great deceiver was the one who tempted us with pride, lust, and things like that.

 

[elijah23]

And if you were to ask most Muslims, they do acknowledge the difference in gods.

Yes, except they claim WE are worshiping the devil, don’t they?

 

[elijah23]

Also, Jesus had specifically stated that no one came to the Father except through him. Even providing the Muslim believed in the same god, they still would not believe that Jesus was His Son. Therefore, either way, they still would not enter heaven as they were.

Jesus commanded us to do two things: love the Lord our God with all our heart, souls, and minds, and love our neighbors as ourselves. I think if the Muslim loves God with all his heart, soul, and mind, he is likely fulfilling the requirement regarding believing in Jesus, because Jesus is God.

 

[Cheyenne K]

Also, Jesus had specifically stated that no one came to the Father except through him. Even providing the Muslim believed in the same god, they still would not believe that Jesus was His Son. Therefore, either way, they still would not enter heaven as they were.

Jesus commanded us to do two things: love the Lord our God with all our heart, souls, and minds, and love our neighbors as ourselves. I think if the Muslim loves God with all his heart, soul, and mind, he is likely fulfilling the requirement regarding believing in Jesus, because Jesus is God.

Not necessarily. I have met Pagans that believe in their Lord with all of thier heart, souls, and mind. Yet they deny Jesus. Muslims may love their god in every which way. But if it is not the God of the Bible, then it really does not matter. In Islam, they may love their Allah, but their "Jesus" (Isa) is merely a prophet. He was no Messiah. They may believe he existed, however they would have to come to God through Jesus. Not to Allah through Isa. They consider Muhammad the last and greatest prophet, if I am not mistaken. So not only would they not be going through Jesus, but that would be considered idolatry in Christianity.

It seems that the topic that we are debating is more so if Islam and Christianity worship the same God or not.

 

[Sinthesis]

How do you know the Muslim doesn’t believe in the same God we do?

Because the Allah of Islam is the "greatest deceiver".

How do you know? I thought the great deceiver was the one who tempted us with pride, lust, and things like that.

'Cause the Qur'an tells me so. Seriously, look it up. Google it.

 

[n2thelight]

Jesus gave us two commandments to obey: to love the Lord with all our hearts, souls, and minds, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. If a Muslim succeeds in obeying these two commandments and a Christian fails, which will go to heaven?

John 14:15 "If ye love Me, keep My commandments."

If you say that you love Him, you prove it by committing yourself to keeping His commandments, even the one Jesus says is the greatest; as given in Mark 12:30, 31.

Mark 12:29 "And Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is, 'Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:"

Mark 12:30 "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength:' this is the first commandment."

Of the ten commandments, all of the first five are included in this one verse, your love and devotion given only to the Lord God.

Mark 12:31 "And the second is like, namely this, `Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.' There is none other commandment greater than these."

The second five commandments deal with you getting along with your neighbor and are all part of this verse. When you love thy neighbor, you are not out to tell lies and gossip about him, nor are you going to steal from him. You are not seducing his wife, nor planning to any wickedness against him. So who is your neighbor? He may be next door, across town or across the nation; he is anyone you come in contact with.


My point....If a Muslim followed those commandments,he would not be a muslim....Reason...You can't love Christ without believing that He is the Son of God!!!!

 

[elijah23]

Not necessarily. I have met Pagans that believe in their Lord with all of thier heart, souls, and mind. Yet they deny Jesus. Muslims may love their god in every which way. But if it is not the God of the Bible, then it really does not matter. In Islam, they may love their Allah, but their "Jesus" (Isa) is merely a prophet. He was no Messiah. They may believe he existed, however they would have to come to God through Jesus. Not to Allah through Isa. They consider Muhammad the last and greatest prophet, if I am not mistaken. So not only would they not be going through Jesus, but that would be considered idolatry in Christianity.

It seems that the topic that we are debating is more so if Islam and Christianity worship the same God or not.

So why do you think we worship different Gods? Please don’t say it’s because we use different names, because the name has nothing to do with it, I don’t think. A rose by any other name still smells the same.

I’m not aware that the Muslims think of their prophet as a savior, by the way.

 

[elijah23]

My point....If a Muslim followed those commandments,he would not be a muslim....Reason...You can't love Christ without believing that He is the Son of God!!!!

Jesus is God in flesh, I believe. By loving God, it seems to me you also love Jesus, even if you aren't aware of it.