The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[thecounsellors]

Some say Jesus died only for the saved...those predestined for election.
I believe Jesus died for all, and each one must choose to be saved.

"God grant mercy to all who through no fault of their own are unable to believe."
- Saint Ciaran of Victoria

 

[savedbygrace57]

thecouns:

I believe Jesus died for all, and each one must choose to be saved.

You believe that falsehood too..

 

[Alabaster]

thecouns:



You believe that falsehood too..

You speak a falsehood.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Scriptures that indicate that Jesus Christ died and rose again for a specific and definite people !

Eph 5:


25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

This indicates that He died only for His Church, not everyone without exception.​

 

[Alabaster]

Scriptures that indicate that Jesus Christ died and rose again for a specific and definite people !

Eph 5:


25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

This indicates that He died only for His Church, not everyone without exception.​

False conclusion. He gave Himself for all people, the entire world over, but it is the Church who has responded to this truth. All who accept His call to come to Him for salvation become members of His Body, the Church.

John 3:14-21
14 And as Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life.
16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. 18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.”

 

[savedbygrace57]

Scriptures that indicate that Jesus Christ died and rose again for a specific and definite people !

John 10:

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

This omits indication that He layed down his life for the goats.

 

[Alabaster]

Scriptures that indicate that Jesus Christ died and rose again for a specific and definite people !

John 10:

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

This omits indication that He layed down his life for the goats.

Jesus talks about the Jews being His sheep and that He has another fold also. That would be the Gentile, who were yet to be included in the plan for salvation of mankind at that point:

John 10:16
I have other sheep, too, that are not in this sheepfold. I must bring them also. They will listen to my voice, and there will be one flock with one shepherd.

Jesus desires that all become His sheep, and enter His fold, and follow Him.

 

[savedbygrace57]

He died for a specific and definite People !



Isa 53:

6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

The all in view here is all His People, all the Children of God, the Children of Promise. Jn 11:


50Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.


rom 9:

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The LORD laid all their sins, not all the sins of everyone in the world, but the sins of all who would believe.

Its the sins of all His Sheep who had gone astray that were laid upon Him, not of the goats whom He will say " I never knew you ". It was for the sins of the Sheep that He paid their sin debt to God. He was the Lamb slain from the foundation for the lambs. Remember He told Peter Jn 21:15

So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

Feed them with the Gospel of Truth..

Not one of these Lambs, these Sheep shall be lost Jn 6:39

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Remember who Jesus said the Father gave Him Jn 10:

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

All the Sheep have their sins Paid for by the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world.

His Sheep are a specific definite People that Christ died for ! The My People is My Sheep, and it was all of their iniquity that was laid upon Him, and no others..

 

[Alabaster]

All those who come into His fold are called His sheep. Jesus died for all, but only those who receive Him can be called His own.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Another verse that sets forth the Limited Atonement, that Christ did not die for all without exception ! 2 cor 5:

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Now, is Paul speaking to or about everyone in the world without exception here ? I am afraid not, but to believers of the Gospel He preached 1 cor 15:3-4..The Church of Christ, His Bride. Paul wrote this to them in his second epistle 2 cor 11:

2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

rev 14:4

These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.



This is who 2 cor 5 21 refers to..

 

[Bazz1040]

A very convenient argument

The interesting thing about those who propose that Jesus did not die for all, always include themselves among those they say Jesus died for.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Re: A very convenient argument

The interesting thing about those who propose that Jesus did not die for all, always include themselves among those they say Jesus died for.

Deal with the scriptures that have been presented..

 

[Alabaster]

Another verse that sets forth the Limited Atonement, that Christ did not die for all without exception ! 2 cor 5:

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Now, is Paul speaking to or about everyone in the world without exception here ? I am afraid not, but to believers of the Gospel He preached 1 cor 15:3-4..The Church of Christ, His Bride. Paul wrote this to them in his second epistle 2 cor 11:

2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

rev 14:4

These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.



This is who 2 cor 5 21 refers to..

Paul is talking to the church--those who have already experienced salvation. It's as simple as that.

Those spoken of in Revelation 14 are the specially anointed 144,000. You are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The True Jesus Christ, His death effects eternal salvation for all He died for, so simply put, those without eternal salvation, i.e Matt 7:


23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

He never died for..

 

[Alabaster]

The True Jesus Christ, His death effects eternal salvation for all He died for, so simply put, those without eternal salvation, i.e Matt 7:


23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

He never died for..

Jesus Christ died for ALL MEN! When He declares to a man He never knew Him, He is declaring that He was rejected, and therefore had no relationship with that person, Damnation is the result--the result of the human being's poor choice, not Jesus' perfect sacrifice.

The shame of it all rests on humanity---not Jesus' perfect and selfless act.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The Lord Jesus Christ coming into the world to die for sin was in keeping with a covenant promise to a special covenant People, it was to be a mercy to them.

Deut 7:


6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

9Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

cp Lk 1:

68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

This is why the Apostle Paul, the servant to the gentiles spake this:

acts 13:

23Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

This Israel however is not ethnic jews or National Israel, but the mystical or Spiritual Israel of God comprised of both jews and gentiles of the spiritual seed of Abraham..

And so the promise of salvation has always been to a specific and definite people..hence Matt 1:

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Rom 5:15



The false concept that Christ died for all men without exception, is a Antichrist doctrine that minimizes the effects and consequences of Christ death, in order to give man credit for the efficaciousness of Christ work, this is a work of the devil..

Now lets look at another scripture teaching of Paul, in His Gospel of Christ.

The consequences or effects of Adam verses that of Jesus Christ..

rom 5:


15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one [Adam] many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Many [ those who Adam was the representative head of ] died or be dead [alienation from God] through or because of one man's offense or trespass [rom 5:12]

Now, it should be pointed out and made clear, that the effects of Adams actions was received, given and not offered and made available to all those he represented in his offence. It was not offered them, hey since Adam sinned, you wanna accept being made dead, or accept that you died its up to your freewill ? It was none of that, but simply, they received of God the sentence of death, nothing they could do or say about it..

Now the contrast !

Much more, as the consequences and effects of the One Man Christ Jesus, and those He represented, as a effect the Grace of God, and the Gift by Grace [ righteousness] again which is by or through one Man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded to many..That is, they have received, been given the Grace of God and the gift of righteousness, it was not offered them, made available to them, but it was received by them as effectively as death was received by those that Adam represented.

This Grace of God Paul says abounded unto many, that is they [the many] was furnished with abundant grace..not only that, but they were give the gift by grace !

What gift ? vs 16 tells us Justification of life:

but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

and vs 18

even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

So this is the effects and consequences of each Man, the Man Adam, for all whom He represented, His act brought many to be dead, not offered, and likewise, the consequences and effects of the Man Christ Jesus, much more, for those He represented, His act brought many the grace of God and Justification of life..

Now unless, we say that all men without exception have been given Justification of life, which we know is not true, then we are saying that Adams act and consequences are greater than that of Christ which is praising the creature over the Creator , the will of man over the will of God, the effects of adam greater than the effects of Christ..

 

[Alabaster]

Romans 5:18-21 NLT
18 Yes, Adam’s one sin brings condemnation for everyone, but Christ’s one act of righteousness brings a right relationship with God and new life for everyone. 19 Because one person disobeyed God, many became sinners. But because one other person obeyed God, many will be made righteous.
20 God’s law was given so that all people could see how sinful they were. But as people sinned more and more, God’s wonderful grace became more abundant. 21 So just as sin ruled over all people and brought them to death, now God’s wonderful grace rules instead, giving us right standing with God and resulting in eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


Salvation in Christ is offered to ALL.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Those of you who believe the false teaching that Jesus Christ died for all without exception, believe that there are those Christ died for that will go to hell, indicating that its not the cross of Christ, His death that saves one from being lost. You are saying that it is not His death that makes the difference of who is saved or lost..

 

[Free]

Those of you who believe the false teaching that Jesus Christ died for all without exception, believe that there are those Christ died for that will go to hell, indicating that its not the cross of Christ, His death that saves one from being lost. You are saying that it is not His death that makes the difference of who is saved or lost..

False. Why do you continually ignore the fact that one must believe in him and his death and resurrection to be saved?