The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[savedbygrace57]

edward

You have to receive it.

Then thats Salvation by works, something man does ! Remember what the word work means. Its the greek word ergon and means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Now is receiving something man does ?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

edward



Then thats Salvation by works, something man does ! Remember what the word work means. Its the greek word ergon and means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Now is receiving something man does ?

Don't be so technical.

If God saved me, then surely everyone is eligible.

 

[savedbygrace57]

allen

Don't be so technical.

I am telling the Truth, call it what you will !

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

allen



I am telling the Truth, call it what you will !

What I'm saying is, we may not always understand what's going on in the mind of God.

There may be "something" standing in the way we interpret .

I'm amazed at how often new things keep coming to me after 28 years of study.

I thought I had everything figured out years ago!

 

[savedbygrace57]

allen

What I'm saying is, we may not always understand what's going on in the mind
of God.

Who said anything about that ? My point is that receiving is a work, something man does !

 

[savedbygrace57]

edward

Perhaps we have merely semantic difficulties here. I do believe that we are
justified through faith. I mean by receiving it to consider it and to believe in
ones heart. Romans 10:5-13 should make my position clear.

Receiving something, Believing in the heart are works that man does. Thats Salvation by works ! A work is :

business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

 

[Agape]

So believing is a work? If that is true then how can anyone be saved?

Good question! :yes

 

[savedbygrace57]

So believing is a work? If that is true then how can anyone be saved? We must believe.

One is Saved by Christ's Work. Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Please explain that. Because if faith is a work then we're going in circles. ??

I have already explained these things in detail, you may want to check all my different threads for that.

But I do not see why its difficult to understand what a work is according to the definition of the word !

A work is :

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

 

[Agape]

Please explain that. Because if faith is a work then we're going in circles. ??

Salvation is Christ's Work only, not ours. So salvation equals Christ plus nothing.
Faith is a gift of God, not a work.
http://www.theopedia.com/Definite_atonement

 

[Agape]

I agree, I do not see faith as a work, and even so, it is of the heart and not the mind or hands, or art or industry. It is simply believing in your heart.

yeah, but who makes the first move according to the Bible? You or Jesus? Did He choose you or did you choose Him?

 

[Agape]

According to scripture, Jesus did before the beginning of time. But we have to make a move and believe and confess here on earth. I do not believe that even if we were chosen that we can just sit in our butt and expect to go to heaven. That doesn't make sense does it?

Agreed. ;)

 

[savedbygrace57]

edward

I agree, I do not see faith as a work, and even so, it is of the heart
and not the mind

The Mind and the Heart are the same. In Rom 10:9-10

The word for heart is the greek word kardia and means:

) the heart
a) that organ in the animal body which is the centre of the circulation of the blood, and hence was regarded as the seat of physical life

b) denotes the centre of all physical and spiritual life

1) the vigour and sense of physical life

2) the centre and seat of spiritual life

a) the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours

So you believe and teach Salvation by Works !

 

[savedbygrace57]

edward

No. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I have not done that.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Particular Salvation for the Children ! cont

Heb 2:13

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Again these are the same Children that Christ came to Identify with and deliver from death in Heb 2:14 and that are the seed of Abraham in Vs 16 !

These are the Children or the seed God gave to Christ in Divine Election Eph 1:4, and they are also the same ones Jesus refers to here Jn 17:2,6

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

Jesus says similar of His Sheep, "thou gavest them me" Jn 10:29

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

And as in the Heb 2 passage, He came to die for them, so likewise in Jn 17:19

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself or Die as an Offering, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

He came to sanctify Himself which means His Offering Himself and as The High priest to Offer Himself Upon the Altar of God's Judgment for them !

Now as Children given Him Heb 2:13, they are His Seed, those referred to here Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Thats the Pleasure of the Lord, to See His Seed saved and Converted because Christ was made an Offering for sin for them and them only !

 

[Agape]

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Thats the Pleasure of the Lord, to See His Seed saved and Converted because Christ was made an Offering for sin for them and them only !

Not if we read the following verse:
Isaiah 53:11 "He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities"

The pleasure of the Lord has to do with the fact that the death of His Son would cover up the sins of many and reconcile them to Himself.

What is God's purpose for saving His elect?
Romans 8:29 : "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren."

We are saved to be conformed to the image and likeness of Jesus Christ and the ultimate purpose is to glorify our Lord. God’s divine purpose for saving His church is to glorify His Son.

Philippians 2:9-10 "Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth"

 

[savedbygrace57]

agape

Not if we read the following verse:
Isaiah 53:11 "He shall see the labor of His soul, and
be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall
justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities"

I agree with that verse. However it does not make of non consequence this Isa 53:10

Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Ps 115:3

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

 

[Deborah13]

Romans 5:18 ....even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life.


.

Are you of the Calvinist doctrine.......NO FREE WILL ?

I always have to ask because unless I see clear evidence as with SavedbyGrace I'm just not sure.

Thanks

 

[Deborah13]

So believing is a work? If that is true then how can anyone be saved? We must believe.

Nope Belief is Not a work, Belief is not some righteous work that we do in order to earn our way to heaven. Belief is in the heart it is not self-righteous therefore is does not give us a reason to boast.

 

[Deborah13]

So if faith is a work and works by salvation will not get one into heaven, then how are people to be saved? Please do not dodge the question and tell me to go research everything you have written on this board because it would be futile for me to pursue and avenue of something that I do not believe to prove myself wrong! I do not believe that faith is a work, or believing.

Since you seem so adamant to your view and very well read about it, so please just succinctly answer my question. Thank you.

Oh and I agree with you that scriptures say that Jesus paid the price for the sin of ALL. A man will not be condemned because of breaking the law, he will be condemned because he does not believe in the Christ Jesus.
John 16:8-9

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8 And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;