The New Birth

[herald]

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will takw away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments and do them." Ezekiel 36:26,27.

We are born sinners and in need of redemption. God robed Himself with flesh in the Lord Jesus Christ, who came to bare away our sin.

He gives us a new heart, a new spirit and puts His Spirit within us, enabling us by His Holy Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29) to walk with Him in holiness. He "causes us" to walk in His Word - His law.

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20.

The old man of sin was crucified with Christ, so that we may walk in newness of life. When His Spirit lives within us, we are empowered by His Spirit to obey His Word - His law.

The mark of false religion is the idea of earning our own salvation, through our own works. "...the plowing of the wicked is sin." Proverbs 21:4. As long as we are in bondage to sin, it is impossible to earn our own salvation.

Jesus said, "Not every one that saith, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven.

MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (lawlessness) Matthew 7:21-23.

Jesus said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God." John 3:3.

When we are born of His Spirit, we become children of God, having His life within us. And our Father knows us, because, we are His children. And we know Him - "And I will give them an heart to know me, that I AM the Lord..." Jeremiah 24:7.

We are incapable of earning our own salvation, because, we are sinners. It is by putting our faith in the works of the sinless Lamb of God - the Lord Jesus Christ, that, we are brought into His Kingdom.

First, we must agree with God, that, we are sinners. Then, we must believe, that, Jesus bore our sin away. Finally, we receive Him as our Lord, inviting His Spirit to live within us.

This brings us to eternal life, and we will live with Him in His Kingdom forever!

 

[forgivenWretch]

AMEN!

 

[herald]

Thank you...I am running into more and more atheists, and those who say, that, Jesus is "a god" in Christian forums.

On http://www.canadiancontent.net, there are more athiests, than, Christians in the Christian forum...anybody want to help?

I have run into Catholics, who think, that, they are born again, because they were baptized. I told them, that, the thief on the cross was not baptized, and Jesus told him, that, he would be with Him in Paradise.

 

[forgivenWretch]

It is quite heart-wrenching that so many Christian boards are so full of non-believes rather than Christians. Too many Christians are just to scared to stand up for God. I for one am very proud to be able to do so.

 

[handy]

I too have seen Christian forums ruined because of lack of firm moderators. I don't mind when athiests or other non-Christians come and want to share their POV's, as long as they keep in mind where they're at. One thing I like about 123 is that the moderators take the job seriously.

herald, very good post on the New Birth. I would say that one needn't be Catholic to believe that one is born again for no other reason than that they were baptized. I've ran into a number of folks with this same attitude, and also some who have so 'spiritualized' baptism that they feel that because they are 'born-again' they have no need to be baptized. :crazyeyes: Good teaching on the subject, such as what you posted can help clear up such misunderstandings.

 

[biblecatholic]

I have run into Catholics, who think, that, they are born again, because they were baptized. I told them, that, the thief on the cross was not baptized, and Jesus told him, that, he would be with Him in Paradise.

I know this might not be the tread do discuss this but baptism is one way for this New Birth

 

[herald]

We are saved by grace through faith. Baptism comes after salvation. It is a work.
If you are trusting in your work of baptism, then, you are not born again. We are not talking about church tradition, but, about God's Word.

Please reread the post.

 

[biblecatholic]

We are saved by grace through faith. Baptism comes after salvation. It is a work.
If you are trusting in your work of baptism, then, you are not born again. We are not talking about church tradition, but, about God's Word.

Please reread the post.

Herald, I don't agree with your tradition. We are saved by grace! Amen you are correct. I wanted to pass on that faith is a work as well.

I would appreciate it that you don't place yourself in Jesus' place and judge my heart.thanks

 

[herald]

I am presenting His "God breathed" (2 Tim 3:16) Word...We are not saved by our works, we are saved by grace through faith. Rom 5:2. We are born again, by the works of Jesus Christ, alone.

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." Romans 10:17.

Jesus said, that, His Word would judge all of us: John 12:48

 

[biblecatholic]

I am presenting His "God breathed" (2 Tim 3:16) Word...We are not saved by our works, we are saved by grace through faith. Rom 5:2. We are born again, by the works of Jesus Christ, alone.

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." Romans 10:17.

you are presenting your interpretation of His word.
I agree we are saved by the grace of God. faith without works is dead(James 2:20) I agree we are "born again" by the "works" of Christ through the Holy Spirit.


and faith is still a work

 

[herald]

We are not born again by water baptism...that, is not Scriptural.

 

[biblecatholic]

We are not born again by water baptism...that, is not Scriptural.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Romans 6:3-4 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Col 2:12-13 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

Titus 3:5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

1 Peter 3:20-21 in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves usâ€â€baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

 

[herald]

Read the next verse Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:6.

He was not referring to literal water, but, the need for cleansing, when used in connection to the spirit. Num 19:17-19;Ps 51:9,10;Is 32:15;44:3-5;55:1-3;Jer 2:13;Joel 2:28,29. Jesus was making reference to the spiritual washing of the soul, by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God at salvation. Eph 5:26;Titus 3:5, required for entering His Kingdom.

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth forever." 1 Pe 1:23

We were all born of water, when we were born in the flesh. The thief on the cross was not baptized. Jesus told him, that, he would be with Him in Paradise.

You are preaching works salvation. Jesus said, that, many would come to Him in the day of judgment, boasting in their works, but, would be lost.

We are baptized as an evidence of a changed life.

 

[biblecatholic]

We were all born of water, when we were born in the flesh.

John 3:5 is not describing 2 separate events,

The thief on the cross was not baptized. Jesus told him, that, he would be with Him in Paradise.

You're right but I'm not sure what that have to do with baptism "not" being a way of Holy Spirit regeneration?

You are preaching works salvation. Jesus said, that, many would come to Him in the day of judgment, boasting in their works, but, would be lost.

You must be use to spitting that at uninformed catholics...sorry it doesn't work on practicing catholics

We are baptized as an evidence of a changed life.

when, a month, year later....why do it?

 

[herald]

If you want to be one of the people, who stand before the Lord, and boast in your works, you will be lost.

The focus of the Gospel is the Lord Jesus Christ and His work of salvation.

 

[biblecatholic]

If you want to be one of the people, who stand before the Lord, and boast in your works, you will be lost.

thus saith herald!

 

[francisdesales]

We are saved by grace through faith. Baptism comes after salvation. It is a work.
If you are trusting in your work of baptism, then, you are not born again. We are not talking about church tradition, but, about God's Word.

Please reread the post.

Herald,

What is a "work", according to you?

Thanks

 

[mondar]

We were all born of water, when we were born in the flesh.

John 3:5 is not describing 2 separate events,

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born anew.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it will, and thou hearest the voice thereof, but knowest not whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

I am not completely sure what you mean by two separate events. I think you are saying that the context involves both water baptism and spirit baptism as one event.

This raises a question. If the term "water" refers to water baptism as a sacrament, Nicodemus could not have received it at the point of the conversation. In fact would Nicodemus even have been able to understand the word "water" as referring to the sacrament?

Also, verse 8 would become very puzzling if the term "water" refers to the sacrament. In verse 8 Christ gives an analogy of the mystery of spirit baptism. Verse 8 would have been the perfect place to state that spirit baptism (regeneration) occurs with water baptism. Instead this mysterious blowing of the spirit man seems to have no idea when or how it happens. Would we not know the when and how if it happens at water baptism, rather then this mysterious control of the Holy Spirit?

Finally, it is noticeable that in verse 6, Jesus drops the use of the term "water." He says that which is born of the spirit is spirit.

What think ye? Does the context really have such a plain meaning as to demand a sacramental view of water baptism?

 

[mutzrein]

Herald

I agree with you in so far as being born of water IS being born of the flesh. And being born again IS being born of the Spirit. Neither has anything to do with baptism in water.

Blessings

 

[Devekut]

I agree with baptismal regeneration. I believe God ordained it as such...out of his love for creation in part and his desire to proclaim that it is part of his ultimate plan. This is why Christ did not come as mere spirit, but also as flesh.

We are not Gnostics, the flesh is not worthless, nor is the spirit the only reality. Spirit is superior in that it gives life to flesh, but the spirit is made known, made incarnate, made more expressible through the flesh.

Baptism affirms the goodness of the material world. Its very simple, its water, the basic element of our matieral life. There are no real obstacles to performing the sacrament.

What baptismal regeneration affirms is that the material world is not ultimately alien or unimportant to the spiritual. The spiritual incarnates in the material, and the whole of man includes both realities. And he is saved wholly.

Thus, as man is born of his mother in water and in spirit, so his re-birth is of both water and spirit and finally, his eschatological transformation is one of both matter and spirit.

Baptismal regeneration then, water being the primary stuff of our biological life, anticipates the Resurrection and the New Jerusalem.

As St. Peter says, the waters of the flood now symbolize the baptism which saves us...

Symbols do not symbolize symbols. Symbols represent to us literal reality.