The Omniscience Of God Does God Know Everything ?

[Mike]

Abraham was Gods friend, I looked into this very subject many years ago and came to the conclusion that God was trying to find out what it felt like as a human to sacrifice a firstborn Son. God felt the anguish and pain that Abraham went through and then stopped it. However God himself went through the same anguish at allowing the world to crucify his firstborn Son Jesus Christ on the cross.

I believe this "test" was clearly for the sake of Abraham himself, not the Lord. God wanted Jacob to know for himself how much faith he had. This would lend to support him well into his future. Others, too, would draw upon this test for themselves. Romans 4 speaks to this.

Romans 4
"<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28009">1</sup> What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28010">2</sup> If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV1984-28011">3</sup> What does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.â€

 

[Elijah674]

I believe this "test" was clearly for the sake of Abraham himself, not the Lord. God wanted Jacob to know for himself how much faith he had. This would lend to support him well into his future. Others, too, would draw upon this test for themselves. Romans 4 speaks to this.

Romans 4
"<SUP id=en-NIV1984-28009 class=versenum>1</SUP> What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? <SUP id=en-NIV1984-28010 class=versenum>2</SUP> If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. <SUP id=en-NIV1984-28011 class=versenum>3</SUP> What does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.â€

Hi, Good Post! The Holy Spirit agrees in 1 Cor. 10:11.
'Now [ALL THESE THINGS HAPPENED UNTO THEM FOR EXAMPLES]: and they [ARE WRITTEN FOR OUR ADMONITION], upon the [ENDS OF THE WORLD ARE COME.]'

--Elijah

 

[Deavonreye]

Well I can see that you don't know what you are talking about, at all. And how can you when the Holy Ghost is not dwelling within you.

I actually do. . . . . . and the words are there if someone actually looks at these stories without "rose colored stain glass window" glasses on. And . . . .about "the Holy Ghost not dwelling in me", . . . there was a thread I started a while back that shows how this "spiritual discernment" is nothing more than what a specific denomination believes [which is why there ARE so many denominations with very different doctrines].

To the general thread:

The story of Abraham and Isaac reads much more like the test being for god. And even if it WAS for Abraham [which I disagree with], there is a huge problem with the request itself.

 

[darrell]

As a Christian, I have to agree you have made a valid conclusion with this particular statement -

. . . this "spiritual discernment" is nothing more than what a specific denomination believes [which is why there ARE so many denominations with very different doctrines] . . .

- scripture interpretation by individuals has led to tens of thousands of different doctrines. We must ask ourselves, if the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, can He be leading us to tens of thousands of different interpretations?

 

[Alabaster]

Abraham was Gods friend, I looked into this very subject many years ago and came to the conclusion that God was trying to find out what it felt like as a human to sacrifice a firstborn Son. God felt the anguish and pain that Abraham went through and then stopped it. However God himself went through the same anguish at allowing the world to crucify his firstborn Son Jesus Christ on the cross.

God already knew--He didn't need to use Abraham. He knows all things.

 

[Deavonreye]

As a Christian, I have to agree you have made a valid conclusion with this particular statement -

- scripture interpretation by individuals has led to tens of thousands of different doctrines. We must ask ourselves, if the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, can He be leading us to tens of thousands of different interpretations?

As I contemplated this, . . . it was the only conclusion that made sense to me. Each denomination truly believes their doctrines.

Anyway, thanks.

 

[Lewis]

Both of you are wrong dead wrong, the both of you just do not know what you are talking about. I can tell that you both have not been overcome by The Holy Ghost.
Because if you did, you would not be talking like that. Have you both ever seen the Holy Ghost take over many people at the same time ? Or have you ever read about Jesus sending the Comforter ? And have you both read about what The Holy Ghost did when He came ?

 

[elijah23]

Years ago I heard a pastor on the radio use the below passage to say that God does not know everything. In verse 12 God says that for now I know, this seems to say that God did not know until Abraham was getting ready to kill his son and God saw him moving to do it. I heard this around 96 or 97 and I have never talked about it before until now, so what do you all think ?


Genesis 22:11-12 (King James Version)


<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-559">11</sup>And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-560">12</sup>And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

God knows what is in our minds and all that has happened up to this point. He can also do a good job predicting what we will do in the future.

Still, we each make many decisions each day. God has to wait till we’ve made those decisions before he can judge us.

 

[Alabaster]

Both of you are wrong dead wrong, the both of you just do not know what you are talking about. I can tell that you both have not been overcome by The Holy Ghost.
Because if you did, you would not be talking like that. Have you both ever seen the Holy Ghost take over many people at the same time ? Or have you ever read about Jesus sending the Comforter ? And have you both read about what The Holy Ghost did when He came ?

 

[darrell]

Both of you are wrong dead wrong, the both of you just do not know what you are talking about. I can tell that you both have not been overcome by The Holy Ghost.
Because if you did, you would not be talking like that. Have you both ever seen the Holy Ghost take over many people at the same time ? Or have you ever read about Jesus sending the Comforter ? And have you both read about what The Holy Ghost did when He came ?

Lewis W, I have surrendered my life to the Lord, and I have felt the power of the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost). I am quite familiar with the account of Pentecost - the descent of the Holy Spirit - and yes I have read the acts of the Apostles, this and much more.

None of the above answers the question:
if the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, can He be leading us to tens of thousands of different interpretations?

 

[Deavonreye]

Both of you are wrong dead wrong, the both of you just do not know what you are talking about. I can tell that you both have not been overcome by The Holy Ghost.
Because if you did, you would not be talking like that. Have you both ever seen the Holy Ghost take over many people at the same time ? Or have you ever read about Jesus sending the Comforter ? And have you both read about what The Holy Ghost did when He came ?

This is kinda outside of the OP, . . . . . but I will talk to this. I'm absolutely NOT wrong when I say that "spiritual discernment" is quite different amongst the various denominations who claim to be receiving their doctrine via "the holy spirit". "Spiritual discernment" is of no value.

Also, when I was a christian, hurting more than I ever had in my life, sincerely praying to god for "the comforter to come", . . . nothing happened.

Anyway, about this topic, I have given a few places where the OT god seems to be less than omniscient.

 

[Lewis]

As a Christian, I have to agree you have made a valid conclusion with this particular statement -

- scripture interpretation by individuals has led to tens of thousands of different doctrines. We must ask ourselves, if the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, can He be leading us to tens of thousands of different interpretations?

Then your statement is confusing then.

 

[Alabaster]

Lewis W, I have surrendered my life to the Lord, and I have felt the power of the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost). I am quite familiar with the account of Pentecost - the descent of the Holy Spirit - and yes I have read the acts of the Apostles, this and much more.

None of the above answers the question:
if the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth, can He be leading us to tens of thousands of different interpretations?

No, He cannot. Most completely diverse interpretations are the result of the hindrance of the minds of men interfering with what the Spirit of God is saying. Spiritual truth is perceived first in the mind, and the Holy Spirit, who dwells in the spirit of man speaks up and says, "Yes, this is right, believe this. Follow this. Walk in this!" We need to obey that.

I think far too many Christians do not allow the Holy Spirit to teach them. They allow people to tell them what they think the Bible says and they do not question it or follow up by reading the Bible for themselves on any issue. This teaches them to rely on the mind. The Holy Spirit gets left out of the equation. Enough of that practice and He will shut up altogether.

This degradation continues until we have what we see now---thousands of differing doctrines and groups. It is sectarianism through and through and that is exactly what Jesus spoke up about, telling us to avoid it!

 

[darrell]

Lewis W,
Yes, it is confusing. Jesus said he would send the Advocate, the Spirit of Truth, and He would lead us to all truth (John 16). A great percentage of Christians – not all – believe this means that with the guidance of the Holy Ghost they can accurately understand and interpret the Bible. Yet we have tens of thousands of denominations, non-denominations and lone-ranger Christians who disagree on all manner of doctrines. There’s plenty of evidence of that right here in this very forum. That is why I ask: is the Spirit of Truth guiding us to this division within Christendom?

Spiritual truth is perceived first in the mind, and the Holy Spirit, who dwells in the spirit of man speaks up and says, "Yes, this is right, believe this. Follow this. Walk in this!" We need to obey that.

Yes! Very well stated.

This degradation continues until we have what we see now---thousands of differing doctrines and groups. It is sectarianism through and through and that is exactly what Jesus spoke up about, telling us to avoid it!

Again, you are right on the mark! In John chapter 16, Jesus spoke of the Spirit of Truth. And in the very next Chapter 17, He prayed to the Father for Christian unity.

Most completely diverse interpretations are the result of the hindrance of the minds of men interfering with what the Spirit of God is saying.

I agree. We let our pre-conceived ideas, prejudices, weaknesses and disordered appetites affect our judgment. And let’s not forget the evil one – the tempter and deceiver is always at work trying to lead us away from the truth. The Lord spoke the truth to Adam and Eve, but the serpent deceived them. We humans are very good at deceiving ourselves as well. If we see two possible interpretations, we’re inclined to pick the most desirable, but what we like may not always be what’s right. So even with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, we let our own minds hinder His guidance. That’s why the interpretation of Scriptures by individuals has led to "sectarianism", and that's why Jesus left us with more than just scriptures as a source of truth and grace.

 

[Deavonreye]

I don't get it. . . . . . . . do you think these people are knowingly deceiving themselves and their congregations? This "we have it right and they do not" type of mentality is old, IMO. It has to do with how THE PERSON determines a scripture. They aren't getting any "special treatment" from a divine source, yet they "MUST be right", so there is no arguing the point.

Doesn't matter really. Maybe we should get back to the OP.

 

[darrell]

While there might be and probably are those out there purposefully deceiving others, for the most part I think it’s more a case of denial or wishful thinking. While God can and sometimes does inspire individuals with insight and understanding, even they must be careful because of all the reasons I listed in my previous post. You’re right on one point Deavon, without a central Authority, it does come down to “how THE PERSON determines a scriptureâ€, and that’s why we have division and disintegration – “sectarianism†as Alabaster called it.
<O:p</O:p
Yes, it really does matter. Yes, it is worth discussing if it can lead us to the Truth.

 

[Alabaster]

Lewis W,
Yes, it is confusing. Jesus said he would send the Advocate, the Spirit of Truth, and He would lead us to all truth (John 16). A great percentage of Christians – not all – believe this means that with the guidance of the Holy Ghost they can accurately understand and interpret the Bible. Yet we have tens of thousands of denominations, non-denominations and lone-ranger Christians who disagree on all manner of doctrines. There’s plenty of evidence of that right here in this very forum. That is why I ask: is the Spirit of Truth guiding us to this division within Christendom?



Yes! Very well stated.


Again, you are right on the mark! In John chapter 16, Jesus spoke of the Spirit of Truth. And in the very next Chapter 17, He prayed to the Father for Christian unity.


I agree. We let our pre-conceived ideas, prejudices, weaknesses and disordered appetites affect our judgment. And let’s not forget the evil one – the tempter and deceiver is always at work trying to lead us away from the truth. The Lord spoke the truth to Adam and Eve, but the serpent deceived them. We humans are very good at deceiving ourselves as well. If we see two possible interpretations, we’re inclined to pick the most desirable, but what we like may not always be what’s right. So even with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, we let our own minds hinder His guidance. That’s why the interpretation of Scriptures by individuals has led to "sectarianism", and that's why Jesus left us with more than just scriptures as a source of truth and grace.

 

[Guap]

I think far too many Christians do not allow the Holy Spirit to teach them. They allow people to tell them what they think the Bible says and they do not question it or follow up by reading the Bible for themselves on any issue. This teaches them to rely on the mind. The Holy Spirit gets left out of the equation. Enough of that practice and He will shut up altogether.

This degradation continues until we have what we see now---thousands of differing doctrines and groups. It is sectarianism through and through and that is exactly what Jesus spoke up about, telling us to avoid it!

Have you ever done any serious biblical studies (like Masters / Doctrinal ) research? I don't think you would say this if you really have studied some of the great Christian minds. They disagree on lots of things and have the humility to admit it. It is not for a lack of bible study, or realiance on the Holy Spirit. It is because of our limitation as humans ... for now we know in part

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

It is a misapplication of scripture to use John 16 as a "proof text" to make the claim that Jesus promised that the spirit would reveal all truth to all christians. That simply is not what the text says or implies. Jesus in this text was speaking specifically and directly to a select group. For this group, no Bible existed that they would be using the spirit to cypher through.

Yes, it is confusing. Jesus said he would send the Advocate, the Spirit of Truth, and He would lead us to all truth (John 16). A great percentage of Christians – not all – believe this means that with the guidance of the Holy Ghost they can accurately understand and interpret the Bible. Yet we have tens of thousands of denominations, non-denominations and lone-ranger Christians who disagree on all manner of doctrines. There’s plenty of evidence of that right here in this very forum. That is why I ask: is the Spirit of Truth guiding us to this division within Christendom?

Here, Jesus said the advocate would lead YOU, (the apostles present at that time), NOT us, to all truth!

 

[Alabaster]

Have you ever done any serious biblical studies (like Masters / Doctrinal ) research? I don't think you would say this if you really have studied some of the great Christian minds. They disagree on lots of things and have the humility to admit it. It is not for a lack of bible study, or realiance on the Holy Spirit. It is because of our limitation as humans ... for now we know in part

We don't need to study Christian minds. We only need God's word and a mind and heart tuned in to the Holy Spirit who reveals and leads us into all truth.

John 14:7 NLT
He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world cannot receive him, because it isn’t looking for him and doesn’t recognize him. But you know him, because he lives with you now and later will be in you.


Psalm 25:5 NLT
Lead me by your truth and teach me,
for you are the God who saves me.
All day long I put my hope in you.