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The Origin of Marriage

Re: Chick-fil-A: True Censorship

thisnumbersdisconnected said:
We aren't talking about some Christians, or all Christians. We are talking about the integrity and veracity of God. Unbelief in His word is direct questioning of Him as a God who can be believed. Dangerous territory. I'm sure you will now claim that you aren't questioning God, but the "men who wrote the Bible." And yet God says through Paul ...
2 Timothy 3 NASB
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
​
So it wasn't men who wrote it, but God who wrote it through men. You can't escape being a direct critic and questioner of the veracity of God by speaking against His authorship, because He clearly says He is the author.Ditto.
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See, yet, you have to believe in the Bible to conclude that.

I don't believe it is inspired by God, and I won't accept the fact that IT SAYS it is, that it is.
 
The problem with a topic such as this is there is no singular origin story for marriage. Marriage is different based on the culture it stems from. Christians can point to the old testament for the origin of marriage for their faith. The thing is that legal marriage as we know it is based on the specific culture and nation it was created in.

Here in the us we give legal rights and recognition to marriage unions. Some states don't care about the gender specifics while some do. That is the real question.
 
Meatballsub said:
The problem with a topic such as this is there is no singular origin story for marriage. Marriage is different based on the culture it stems from. Christians can point to the old testament for the origin of marriage for their faith. The thing is that legal marriage as we know it is based on the specific culture and nation it was created in.

Here in the us we give legal rights and recognition to marriage unions. Some states don't care about the gender specifics while some do. That is the real question.
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The arugment is whether or not Marriage, as a whole, stemmed from Christianity, or Judaism.

I have argued that their were EARLIER accounts of marriage, group, and one woman and one man, than either of those religions.
 
Atothetheist said:
The arugment is whether or not Marriage, as a whole, stemmed from Christianity, or Judaism.
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Well then no wonder there is so much confusion going on. Almost every religion has a marriage origin and all define "marriage" differently based on their cultures. So, no, not all marriages stem from Judaism or Christianity.

I have argued that their were EARLIER accounts of marriage, group, and one woman and one man, than either of those religions.
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The problem with arguing that is there are no exact dates in genesis so a Christian, Jew, or Muslim could just claim that Genesis was before Sumeria. Then you end up going down the rabbit hole of trying to pin point dates of a document penned (supposedly) centuries after the fact and after the fall of Sumeria. That and Christian marriages in the USA are more ritual then what they were during the time of Moses.
 
AlexBC said:
And besides, marriage existed long before Christianity came along.

Why do so many think marriage came from the Bible?
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What other cultures had may have been classified as marriage, but ONLY God can sustain and keep it going. Marriage is more than two people joining together. Marriage in the bible typifies Christ love for the church the same way a man should love his wife...the earlier cultures never had that. Whether other cultures had the institution before Christianity is irrevelant, the point is that God pronounced everything he had made good and that includes marriage. Having something first is not the crucial thing, KNOWING ITS MEANING AND WHO GAVE IT..IS ALL THAT MATTERS.
 
abide said:
What other cultures had may have been classified as marriage, but ONLY God can sustain and keep it going. Marriage is more than two people joining together. Marriage in the bible typifies Christ love for the church the same way a man should love his wife...the earlier cultures never had that. Whether other cultures had the institution before Christianity is irrevelant, the point is that God pronounced everything he had made good and that includes marriage. Having something first is not the crucial thing, KNOWING ITS MEANING AND WHO GAVE IT..IS ALL THAT MATTERS.
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Just one point i'm unclear on. What do you mean by "only God can sustain it and keep it going" ?

Cheers.
:thumbsup
 
AlexBC said:
Just one point i'm unclear on. What do you mean by "only God can sustain it and keep it going" ?

Cheers.
:thumbsup
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Marriage partners need the help of God to keep away from lusting after someone who is not their wife/husband. ...that is what I mean...GOD HAS TO BE THE CENTRE OF THE MARRIAGE. Your profile states that you are not a Christian so I am not sure if you would understand...A Christian's morality of what is right and wrong in other words the moral compass for the Christian is the bible and the bible is the WORD OF GOD.
 
abide said:
Marriage partners need the help of God to keep away from lusting after someone who is not their wife/husband. ...that is what I mean...GOD HAS TO BE THE CENTRE OF THE MARRIAGE. Your profile states that you are not a Christian so I am not sure if you would understand...A Christian's morality of what is right and wrong in other words the moral compass for the Christian is the bible and the bible is the WORD OF GOD.
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Ah. Gotcha:thumbsup

But there are couples who married in non-Christian unions who are commited to their marriage and never cheat. And there are many Christians who cheat on a spouse.
 
thisnumbersdisconnected said:
Yet there is no "earlier account" than that of Adam and Eve. :lock
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Cool. So you have the marriage certificate?

And some sources place the writing of Genesis at around 1400 BC so the written record of Sumerian marriages predate the account of Adam and Eve's marriage by 1500 years.
 
Re: Chick-fil-A: True Censorship

StoveBolts said:
I have a book called Ancient Near Eastern Texts by Pritchard and I have read many of the Sumerian accounts. Please give me a reference so that I may read these.

From what I know of the Sumerian's, I'm sure their view of marriage is not completely in line with the Hebrew scriptures of marriage.

Anyway, you seem to discount the Bible by separating it with the oldest writings we have, which are of course Sumerians. However, the Bible itself links itself with the Sumerians very clearly by way of Abram. Do you know where Abram was originally from? Of course, he was from UR. And what do we know about Ur? Yup, it was in the heart of Sumeria.

What's more, is Abram traces back to Noah and if you do the math, Noah would have still been alive when Abram was born and you know that the Sumerians have their own flood account as recorded by Gilgimesh. They also have their own creation account, which Genesis 1 and 2 address head on.

So you see, because you find marriage in Sumerian writings does not disconnect it from the Bible as the Bible connects itself directly to Sumeria.
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I want to say somewhere from page 215-219. Sorry. I read the same book but yeeeeears ago:study

Hope that helps:thumbsup
 
AlexBC said:
Ah. Gotcha:thumbsup

But there are couples who married in non-Christian unions who are commited to their marriage and never cheat. And there are many Christians who cheat on a spouse.
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So when the Christian cheat is it God's fault:sad
 
Re: Chick-fil-A: True Censorship

StoveBolts said:
I have a book called Ancient Near Eastern Texts by Pritchard and I have read many of the Sumerian accounts. Please give me a reference so that I may read these.

From what I know of the Sumerian's, I'm sure their view of marriage is not completely in line with the Hebrew scriptures of marriage.

Anyway, you seem to discount the Bible by separating it with the oldest writings we have, which are of course Sumerians. However, the Bible itself links itself with the Sumerians very clearly by way of Abram. Do you know where Abram was originally from? Of course, he was from UR. And what do we know about Ur? Yup, it was in the heart of Sumeria.

What's more, is Abram traces back to Noah and if you do the math, Noah would have still been alive when Abram was born and you know that the Sumerians have their own flood account as recorded by Gilgimesh. They also have their own creation account, which Genesis 1 and 2 address head on.

So you see, because you find marriage in Sumerian writings does not disconnect it from the Bible as the Bible connects itself directly to Sumeria.
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There may be similarities between the Biblical accounts and the Sumerian myths but there are as many differences aswell.

And the flood that you speak of was most likely just one of several that destroyed many cities in Mesopotamia and which can be naturally explained. And can't those earlier stories have then influenced what then became the Biblical account? In much the same way the Zoroastrian divinity Mithra is said to have contributed to the accounts of Jesus' life.

Just food for thought.
 
thisnumbersdisconnected said:
Yet there is no "earlier account" than that of Adam and Eve. :lock
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Ummm....... Yeah, there is.

I am not sure if you think Genesis was theearliest account ever, or if your saying Adam and Eve were the beginning, therefore nothing earlier.

Please tell me which one, and I can answer accordingly.
 
abide said:
So when the Christian cheat is it God's fault:sad
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Nope, but he is making a note that it seems thatother people of other religions can keep faithful marriages,just like you guys can.

On the flipside, you guys also get divorsed, as do the others.

We see know evidence that a God is working in the christians favor to set it apart.
 
Atothetheist said:
Ummm....... Yeah, there is.

I am not sure if you think Genesis was theearliest account ever, or if your saying Adam and Eve were the beginning, therefore nothing earlier.

Please tell me which one, and I can answer accordingly.
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Yep. I even posted above that a majority place the writing of Genesis to around 1500bc at the earliest. A full 1500 years after records of Sumerian Marriages. I also touched upon the intermingling of Sumerian/Biblical accounts in another post.

And again, the Genesis account would have to have been an oral tradition for a not short amount of time before it became a written record. The veracity of oral traditions can sometimes be demonstrated to be higher than written records but it still means that a lot of exaggeration can take place (Chinese whispers).
 
Atothetheist said:
Ummm....... Yeah, there is.

I am not sure if you think Genesis was theearliest account ever, or if your saying Adam and Eve were the beginning, therefore nothing earlier.

Please tell me which one, and I can answer accordingly.
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Chronologically, Moses' account wouldn't be the "earliest" in terms of when the words were put to papyrus, but historically the event is the very beginning, yes, and Adam and Eve were the very beginning. I'm not sure how you're planning on responding, though I do express hope it is in more than in human scientific terms that could support several speculative claims based on opinion, conjecture and theory by archeologists who reject biblical perspective, therefore are prejudiced in their discounting of Moses' significance as God's historian. I would hope that, on a Christian forum, credence can be given to Moses' role as historian as well as spokesman for the Creator.
 
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