"THE PAULINE DOCTRINE

[glorydaz]

I highly doubt God would not approve of our fellowship with other believers on Sunday simply because it was not Saturday. The whole notion is absurd and in no way follows what Jesus taught on the Spirit of the laws.

Yep. :D

LOL...I agree. The whole notion is absurd. :amen

 

[researcher]

I highly doubt God would not approve of our fellowship with other believers on Sunday simply because it was not Saturday. The whole notion is absurd and in no way follows what Jesus taught on the Spirit of the laws.

Yep. :D

LOL...I agree. The whole notion is absurd. :amen

Where two or three are gathered... But only on Saturday!

:o :D

 

[ozell]

Cornelius"]I am just so thankful that the Lord has freed me from this legalism, that I do not have to count the hours and calculate when a "holy day" is going to start. I am so glad that I am not bound by religious ceremony regarding what to eat and not to eat and this day or that day.

C
what is legalism? are you a Christian? Jesus custom was keeping the sabbath day, Jesus ate no unclean things, Jesus kept the high sabbath days. Are you Christ like? what did Jesus free you from?

When I found out that the REST of God , mentioned in Hebrews, was the rest a Christian must have when he or she trusts the promises and had nothing to do with a day . I then saw that the Old Testament Sabbath indeed pointed spiritually towards this attitude of "doing nothing", because God has already taken care of the problem.

where is this written or is this your opinion or doctrine given to you as a child?

Faith in the done works of the cross, brings the mature Christian into the spiritual Sabbath, there he REST from his own efforts, and RESTS in the fact that God is faithful to bring His Word to pass.

Faith is belief!!! what works was done on the cross? Mature christians whatever that is are aware that their is a day of rest and 1000 years of rest, which is a day of rest to come.

and for your last comment.

The literal Sabbath was a figure, a shadow , of the spiritual truth .

where is it written that the sabbath is a shadow of things to come

 

[ozell]

Cornelius, thank you! That was a very good, abridged explanation of the Sabbath on this side of the Cross. It didn't require a whole list of scripture, but rather, an understanding of the Gospel given to Paul by the Lord, Himself. :amen

The literal Sabbath was a figure, a shadow , of the spiritual truth .

it is written

2Pt 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

this is what C gave!

 

[ozell]

I as a bible student have examined the bible testimonies on the first day of the week, there are eight to be exact, and without exception they are silent as to any of the disciples observing Sunday as a holy day.
How is it possible that these accounts, written over 40 years after the crucifixion, have neglected to mention Sunday sacredness?
There is no biblical support for the changing of God’s holy sabbath from the seventh day (Saturday) to the first day (Sunday).
I highly doubt God would not approve of our fellowship with other believers on Sunday simply because it was not Saturday. The whole notion is absurd and in no way follows what Jesus taught on the Spirit of the laws.

Their is no need for doubt or confusion which some portray here. All that is required is reading
the discussion is not on what day to worship on, but what day to keep holy, sanctify and worship on

so lets read again

Ex 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. some here have forgotten so God is reminding you Its obvious some here don't keep it holy or know how.

9: Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

so we have the 7th day as being holy, blessed, hallowed, and for rest. Lets read some more of God's words.

God said we are to have a holy convocation on the 7th day sabbath

Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Now lets look at what Jesus the Messiah, the God. The King custom was.

Lk 4:
14: And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
15: And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

 

[ozell]

now that we read what Jesus custom was and How we said the 7th day sabbath is holy, sanctified, Hallowed. Lets look at after Jesus death and resurrection what day was the church worshipping on.

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Paul continued the custom of Jesus, and his manner was to keep the sabbath day. After Jesus resurrection.

Now we have gentiles here who have responded to this post, who are blinded by, well you fill in the rest. anyway lets look at your forefather and find out what day did they keep.

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43: Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.


we have a problem today with lack of understanding God's word and having blind faith in mans doctrine

Now all you that responded

what day did Jesus, Paul and the gentiles keep as the day of worship?

 

[glorydaz]

now that we read what Jesus custom was and How we said the 7th day sabbath is holy, sanctified, Hallowed. Lets look at after Jesus death and resurrection what day was the church worshipping on.

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Paul continued the custom of Jesus, and his manner was to keep the sabbath day. After Jesus resurrection.

Now we have gentiles here who have responded to this post, who are blinded by, well you fill in the rest. anyway lets look at your forefather and find out what day did they keep.

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43: Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.


we have a problem today with lack of understanding God's word and having blind faith in mans doctrine

Now all you that responded

what day did Jesus, Paul and the gentiles keep as the day of worship?

Jesus obeyed the Law while on earth....even though he healed on the Sabbath and was accused of breaking the law. You're doing the same thing with this post. Attempting to put people back under the law when we are no longer under the law. Now you can make any claims you want, but, simply put, you're wrong. The Sabbath law was given to Israel...for a particular reason. Paul traveled on the Sabbath and nowhere in the New Testament are we told to keep the Sabbath. Jesus is our Sabbath rest. We're told in the New Testament not to put the burdern of the law on each other....including the Sabbath.

 

[Geo]

It's always about what IS written. Never about what we think SHOULD BE written.

Miss that little point, and whoops! miss out on a promised blessing at the very least.

There was, is and will be a weekly day chosen by God and NOT selected by any people when God wants to meet with HIS people for a special reason. During the next millennium as well, we can reason as much as we like about our daily meetings, still He choses to have one special day. It's HIS day, and Jesus is the Lord of that day.

I also didn't understand that point for a long time. But sadly admit that I was wrong and I leaned on what I thought was a spiritual answer to that question, and was not. It's never about our assumptions, that may sound so good and "spiritual", it's ALWAYS about what is written. That is spiritual and is the "only mature" response to God.

A child would understand that, for the older ones it's a meekness test, and a check of what's really written on our hearts.

 

[glorydaz]

It's always about what IS written. Never about what we think SHOULD BE written.

Miss that little point, and whoops! miss out on a promised blessing at the very least.

There was, is and will be a weekly day chosen by God and NOT selected by any people when God wants to meet with HIS people for a special reason. During the next millennium as well, we can reason as much as we like about our daily meetings, still He choses to have one special day. It's HIS day, and Jesus is the Lord of that day.

I also didn't understand that point for a long time. But sadly admit that I was wrong and I leaned on what I thought was a spiritual answer to that question, and was not. It's never about our assumptions, that may sound so good and "spiritual", it's ALWAYS about what is written. That is spiritual and is the "only mature" response to God.

A child would understand that, for the older ones it's a meekness test, and a check of what's really written on our hearts.

LOL No, it's not a meekness test. It's a matter of what the Word says.
Jesus brought a new covenant...not of law but of grace. The day of salvation has arrived already.

(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Let no man judge you....we are not under the law.

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Let no man judge you....we are not under the law.
[quote="Colossians 2:15-17] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.[/quote]

 

[ozell]

Jesus obeyed the Law while on earth....even though he healed on the Sabbath and was accused of breaking the law. You're doing the same thing with this post. Attempting to put people back under the law when we are no longer under the law.

G
do you steal? have youy killed anyone? have you committed adultery? are you liar?, do you have other God's besides Jesus.

Now you can make any claims you want, but, simply put, you're wrong.

I may be, but the bible proves that you are wrong

The Sabbath law was given to Israel...for a particular reason. Paul traveled on the Sabbath and nowhere in the New Testament are we told to keep the Sabbath. Jesus is our Sabbath rest. We're told in the New Testament not to put the burdern of the law on each other....including the Sabbath

no where in the NT Do it say don't keep the sabbath?

 

[ozell]

Jesus obeyed the Law while on earth....even though he healed on the Sabbath and was accused of breaking the law. You're doing the same thing with this post. Attempting to put people back under the law when we are no longer under the law. Now you can make any claims you want, but, simply put, you're wrong. The Sabbath law was given to Israel...for a particular reason. Paul traveled on the Sabbath and nowhere in the New Testament are we told to keep the Sabbath. Jesus is our Sabbath rest. We're told in the New Testament not to put the burdern of the law on each other....including the Sabbath

AGAIN LETS READ

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Paul continued the custom of Jesus, and his manner was to keep the sabbath day. After Jesus resurrection.

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43: Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

 

[ozell]

LOL No, it's not a meekness test. It's a matter of what the Word says.
Jesus brought a new covenant...not of law but of grace. The day of salvation has arrived already.

(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation

What is the New Covenant that Jesus brought?


[quote:234i87vu]Let no man judge you....we are not under the law.
="Romans 14:5-6"]One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Let no man judge you....we are not under the law.

whose Judged anyone here and what laws are we not under?


[quote="Colossians 2:15-17] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.[/quote][/quote:234i87vu]


whose Judging?

go back and read what Paul told these backward colossians

1: For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
2: That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
3: In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4: And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
5: For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
6: As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8: Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

[JudaicChristian]

There are two sets of laws. the first are the commandments of God, and the second are the mosaic laws. So since Yahshua and the disciples preached the keeping of the commandments, then to what laws were they speaking against?

 

[glorydaz]

AGAIN LETS READ

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Paul continued the custom of Jesus, and his manner was to keep the sabbath day. After Jesus resurrection.

Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43: Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

The Sabbath Rest is found only by faith in Our Lord Jesus Christ.
We're never told to keep the Sabbath Law...because Paul's custom was to preach on the Sabbath does not, by any stretch of the imagination, mean we're to keep that same custom.

In the NT the true light comes to earth and the shadows disappear. Now we no longer look to the shadows, but to the substance which the shadow was cast from... the substance in the person of Christ

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

To go back in the shadows is to have our light become darkness as if we never received it. We are undoing all that Christ has done. Jesus said ....

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

The Apostles knew the burden of the law. This is why at their Jerusalem Council they refuted the law being added to grace. Stating those who do trouble you with words and subverting your souls. In Acts15:10........"Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?"

The Sabbath rest is one we enter into 365 days a year. We cease from our own labors.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Neither the Law, nor Joshua could bring Israel into God's true Sabbath “restâ€, “another dayâ€, not a seventh day or a first day, Sunday, but the day of Salvation. Hebrews 4:2 ...For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it."

This "day" Isaiah speaks of is Christ.

Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

Paul quotes the Isaiah passage...

(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

This day is any day one receives the Lord and enters into the rest He offers in the new covenant. With the law one had to do work to be blessed... in the New covenant that operates under grace we receive by faith to be blessed.

 

[ozell]

There are two sets of laws. the first are the commandments of God, and the second are the mosaic laws. So since Yahshua and the disciples preached the keeping of the commandments, then to what laws were they speaking against?

who gave Moses his laws?

 

[ozell]

The keeping of Sunday as the Christian sabbath is not of God but of Man. If you are a true Christian, which means a follower of Christ or to be Christ like; then why are you following a day set up by man? We have proved that Paul kept the Lord’s sabbath well after the death and resurrection of Christ. So why are you going to church on the first day of the week? Well if you don’t know history will tell you why.

ORIGIN OF SUNDAY WORSHIP

Ample evidence from history shows that the celebration of Sunday originated from pagan practices of SUN WORSHIP. In March of 321 A.D., the Roman Emperor Constantine, who was at first a sun-worshiper and later a Christian convert, issued the first decree declaring Sunday to be a legal day of rest. In 336 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church officially changed the observance of Sabbath to Sunday for political and economic expediency. Since then, the original Sabbath gradually gave way to Sunday observance and the practice remains to this day.

 

[ozell]

The Biblical Sabbath, however, is and has always been on the seventh day of the week, or Saturday. Despite the prevalence of Sunday worship in Christendom, we must look to the Bible as our authority and keep the seventh day Sabbath ordained by God. Now go into your history books and prove me wrong, I challenge you to do so.

So sisters and brothers read your bible for yourself and pray for understanding. Don’t let some unlearned or false preacher deceive you.

The Sabbath of the Lord has, and will always be the seventh day of the week (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday) and has not been changed.

Remember Paul said; (Acts 24:14) “But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:â€

And it says clearly in the law (Ex:20) to remember the sabbath, to keep it holy.

 

[ozell]

"PAUL CONCERNING THE LAW"

Are we to believe that God’s holy commandments are no longer to be kept in this world of modern Christianity? One of the most often quoted verses to try and do away with God’s Royal law comes from the writing of the Apostle Paul; (Rom. 6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace. Now people will take this one verse and run with it, ignoring the writings of the others apostles and the prophets and the statements of even Jesus himself. Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts. Sisters and brothers when you read about the law having a shadow of good things to come, and the law that was our school master to bring us unto Christ, it was not referring to God’s holy commandments but the animal sacrifice law. Daniel the prophet foretold the doing away of this law. (Dan 9:26-27) And after threescore and two weeks shall Mes-si’-ah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

[glorydaz]

John 1:17 -"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

No holy men of God, from Adam to Moses were told to keep the Sabbath.

The Sabbath Law was given to the Children of Israel as a sign of their escape from Egypt.

Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

According to the Sabbath Law..."Abide ye every man in his place...let no man go out of his place."

See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Here, Paul goes out of the city....he broke the Sabbath Law.

And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

We are now under the New Covenant.

 

[Drew]

"PAUL CONCERNING THE LAW"

Are we to believe that God’s holy commandments are no longer to be kept in this world of modern Christianity? One of the most often quoted verses to try and do away with God’s Royal law comes from the writing of the Apostle Paul; (Rom. 6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are not under the law, but under grace. Now people will take this one verse and run with it, ignoring the writings of the others apostles and the prophets and the statements of even Jesus himself.

There are many more texts than this one from Romans that tell us that the Law of Moses has been abolished. There are texts in Ephesians, Colossians, and Galatians. Not to mention Jesus' clear overturning of the Levitical food laws (e.g. in Mark 7).

I see no way to argue that the Law of Moses is still in force. True, Paul does retain the concept of law and the need to obey "law", but whatever he means by this, he most certainly cannot be referring to the Law of Moses. There is a literal mountain of Biblical evidence that the Law of Moses has indeed been retired.

We can, of course, go further on the issue of what Paul means by "the law being established" in Romans 3. But I see no argument at all that the Law of Moses still persists.

We do not have to have the Law of Moses to affirm that "sin is lawlessness", by the way.