The position of a pastor in a church.

[Classik]

I see we have many threads about pastors. I want to add something new.

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QUESTION 1
what should be the position of a pastor in a church?

We have church chairman (let me not mention chairwoman. reba, handy, Jethro Bodine and the rest will break my head;) ), secretary, treasurer, youth leader, men leader, women leader choirmaster, elders etc..


There is a church where the pastor used to be under the church chairman. But now the pastor heads the chairman.

I want to know, shouldn't the pastor be the overall head of all these people mentioned? Any quotes from the bible to support your answer?


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I think there are churches where this is a big problem where the pastor has limited power. He could be affected or restricted physically and spiritually from acting....

QUESTION 2

All Christian churches have their junior pastor or something like that. At times these people are not allowed to say their mind or do that which the Lord committs into their hands.

A pastor once told me: "I am under them. I obey whatever they tell me. They tell me: 'Sit there!' I obey them." Truth is, this young man could have a wonderful vission: say he wants to hold a program, crusade etc and the leaders could say NO to him.

If what he has in mind is for the good and growth of the church, why can't he kind of disobey and do that which he thinks is right before God?

QUESTION 3
In such a church where the pastor feels he is in bondage... is it wise for him to leave? He goes to a place where he thinks his freedom is granted.

(I know some young/junior/assistant pastors could be stubborn, some having zeal without knowledge)

QUESTION 4
Is there such thing as Pastor's Power (no matter his position in the church)?

Ta

 

[reba]

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

A pastor needs to submit to someone. or a body of someones... Total control leads me to think of the Jim Jones david Kerish types.... Ya know the I am your leader alone sent from God....

 

[handy]

This is one area that I think the Presbyterians have it right...

The pastor is nothing more, nor nothing less than one of the elders, but one whose primary job it is to teach the truths of the Scriptures and shepherd the spirituality of the flock.

All the elders were responsible for the spiritual well being of the flock and most could teach just as effectively as the pastor... but the pastor was paid so that he could devote himself full time to the flock... the other elders were lay leaders.

All the elders were considered servants of the flock and were to make sure the needs of the congregation were met, whether spiritual, physical, social or mental. If a family had a financial need, the elders would take care of it... usually by letting the congregation know that there was a need (just not saying who it was). As for a social need, I remember one young couple in defiance of their parents ran off and got married. The elders worked with the young couple to help them deal with the consequences of their rash act.

Right now, I'm a member of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod... and they have a decent structure in place for church leadership... and it's fairly effective, but I think it's too hierarchical and based more in tradition rather than upon biblical mandates. The pastor seems to be far more "in control" of the spiritual direction of the church than in the Presbyterian churches. But, even he fits within a structure of leadership and isn't a lone gun.

I think the idea of a single pastor being solely responsible for the flock isn't biblical at all. And, in churches where this is the case, I've seen some real damage done. I've seen true spiritual shipwreck... So much so that I would never, ever ally myself with a church in which there is one "pastor" calling all the shots.

 

[Sparkey]

I like to use the allegory of a shepherd while thinking about the position and responsiblities of a Pastor. But modern day, Western (Occidental) thought about sheep-herders doesn't fit at all. In biblical times and region, the job of shepherd was often given to the youngest son. Picture David as a young boy. He wasn't playing on the X-Box or going to sports events during his youth. He wasn't riding on a horse and driving the herd to slaughter or to the market for the hightest profit margin either. He was playing with the sheep.

I've heard of shepherds in the Middle-East who could restore ewes and lambs while blindfolded just by feeling their faces. That's the level of intimacy they maintained. A good shepherd loves his sheep and would lay down his life for them. That kind of relationship isn't seen very often (if ever) between Christians and their Pastors these days.

I don't believe that the Pastorial position is about power but instead think it's about relationship. Just as husbands are told to love their wives as Christ loves the church, Pastors represent Christ to their "flock" and extend the love that God has put in his heart for those that are given to him. I agree with Handy that Pastors need to be held accountable and can not be solely responsible for the direction of a church. Their job is to feed, care for, and provide for the needs (especially the spiritual needs) of the church.

The problem that we see today is a general absence of Apostles and Prophets in the church. I trust that these offices were given by God for the perfecting of the saints and that there will come a time when they are restored and seen in modern day service. The way that I see it is that for whatever reason, Pastors have been asked to become the "Jack of All-Trades" for churches today. They are the teachers, oftentimes the only evangelists as well as the "Oracles of God". God designed Church Leadership to be balanced amongst several offices and Christianity has left the ways of His Wisdom for more worldly (hierarchal, top-down) methods.

This isn't the first time that type of thing has happened either. Consider the issue regarding the choice between Judges and Kings from the Old Testament. Too many churches are being run as corporations, change the name "Board of Directors" to "Elders" and there you have it.

 

[WIP]

We are an independent Lutheran Church with ALC roots. In our church we have a council including a president, vice president, secretary, treasurer, deacons, trustees, and educational board, Sunday school teachers (children and adult), and choir director. The pastor is our primary spiritual leader (human) in conjunction with our deacons and the council. All financial decisions, building maintenance, grounds keeping, etc. are handled by our church council or the congregation. That's how the constitution is structured but in real life we work together as a team, consulting one another, and consulting God in prayer.

 

[Classik]

In our church we have a council including a president, vice president, secretary, treasurer, deacons, trustees, and educational board, Sunday school teachers (children and adult), and choir director. The pastor is our primary spiritual leader (human) in conjunction with our deacons and the council. All financial decisions, building maintenance, grounds keeping, etc. are handled by our church council or the congregation.

This is exactly our arrangement. Who gave you our format? incredible. Our president is a senior pastor, too. We have many pastors: youth pastor, assistant pastor etc. They are about five of them. God uses them in different ways.

 

[Classik]

but in real life we work together as a team, consulting one another, and consulting God in prayer.

Yes: that's the way it should be. But, one thing that upsets me is when the choir director tells the treasure: 'No, this is what you should do,' for instance. Let each person mind his/her own business.


The prayer team should not instruct the sound engineers where to fix their musical equipment. The prayer team know diddly 'bout sound.
This is how things should be done, I believe.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We have church chairman (let me not mention chairwoman. reba, handy, Jethro Bodine and the rest will break my head;) )

That's it! You're off my Christmas list for sure. Lol.

 

[reba]

I see we have many threads about pastors. I want to add something new.

---
QUESTION 1
what should be the position of a pastor in a church?

We have church chairman (let me not mention chairwoman. reba, handy, Jethro Bodine and the rest will break my head;) ), secretary, treasurer, youth leader, men leader, women leader choirmaster, elders etc..


There is a church where the pastor used to be under the church chairman. But now the pastor heads the chairman.

I want to know, shouldn't the pastor be the overall head of all these people mentioned? Any quotes from the bible to support your answer?

Ta

That would be chairperson.. PC for ever!

 

[Vic C.]

Classik,

I am a member of a Southern Baptist congregation. We are basically a grass root organization. Within it is a small hierarchy consisting of the basic clerical positions (office assistant, accounting, etc.), a ministry committee, board of trustees, deacons and a main and youth Pastor.

The Pastors makes decisions concerning basic pastoral (shepherding) duties. The Deacons are responsible for ministering to families and overall membership. the Trustees take care of church maintenance and coordinate church functions.

Most financial decisions are made during church business meetings and are based on voting. Think of it as a parliamentary system run by the actual members. It's very democratic, a majority-like system. Even salaries, housing and insurance compensation is voted on by the congregation.

In our church, the Pastor wears two hats; he is both shepherd and teacher.

 

[Classik]

That's it! You're off my Christmas list for sure. Lol.

:D

 

[Classik]

Thanks, Vic C.. Our pastors also have peculiar responsibilities. Once a department has a problem they set in....i.e the pastors. That is where the power of the pastor thing comes in (although not without the collective decissions of other church leaders).

 

[Classik]

QUESTION 3
In such a church where the pastor feels he is in bondage... is it wise for him to leave? He goes to a place where he thinks his freedom is granted.

(I know some young/junior/assistant pastors could be stubborn, some having zeal without knowledge)

:dunno
No attempts yet.

 

[Tina]

QUESTION 3
In such a church where the pastor feels he is in bondage... is it wise for him to leave? He goes to a place where he thinks his freedom is granted.

(I know some young/junior/assistant pastors could be stubborn, some having zeal without knowledge)

Is being "stubborn" the right attitude of a pastor?

If being obedient and submissive to church higher authority makes them feel like they're in "bondage", then those pastors should seriously step down and go back to working on their attitude and weakness before aspiring to be pastors.

IMO, they are not setting good leadership examples.

QUESTION 4
Is there such thing as Pastor's Power (no matter his position in the church)?

Of course, that's why they're called "pastor". They have certain rights and power within the church that should be exercised with an attitude of humility and submission to Christ as well as genuine love for people.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I grew up Presby, and I think it worked well, as handy pointed out. I mean, PCUSA has gone kinda soft, but I've never heard of a presby church splitting or having much trouble/drama related to ministers and the egos are kept in check by the church organization.

The only church I've ever attended in which the minister reigned supreme was a somewhat controversial megachurch. Thousands of congregants (they call them "owners" or something like that) and 1 main minister. No elders or anything to keep this dude in line. Kinda scary man. They seemed "nice" and all, and kinda Christian hip, but...ummm...if they passed out Kool-Aid, I wouldn't drink it.

 

[Adullam]

I like to use the allegory of a shepherd while thinking about the position and responsiblities of a Pastor. But modern day, Western (Occidental) thought about sheep-herders doesn't fit at all. In biblical times and region, the job of shepherd was often given to the youngest son. Picture David as a young boy. He wasn't playing on the X-Box or going to sports events during his youth. He wasn't riding on a horse and driving the herd to slaughter or to the market for the hightest profit margin either. He was playing with the sheep.

I've heard of shepherds in the Middle-East who could restore ewes and lambs while blindfolded just by feeling their faces. That's the level of intimacy they maintained. A good shepherd loves his sheep and would lay down his life for them. That kind of relationship isn't seen very often (if ever) between Christians and their Pastors these days.

I don't believe that the Pastorial position is about power but instead think it's about relationship. Just as husbands are told to love their wives as Christ loves the church, Pastors represent Christ to their "flock" and extend the love that God has put in his heart for those that are given to him. I agree with Handy that Pastors need to be held accountable and can not be solely responsible for the direction of a church. Their job is to feed, care for, and provide for the needs (especially the spiritual needs) of the church.

The problem that we see today is a general absence of Apostles and Prophets in the church. I trust that these offices were given by God for the perfecting of the saints and that there will come a time when they are restored and seen in modern day service. The way that I see it is that for whatever reason, Pastors have been asked to become the "Jack of All-Trades" for churches today. They are the teachers, oftentimes the only evangelists as well as the "Oracles of God". God designed Church Leadership to be balanced amongst several offices and Christianity has left the ways of His Wisdom for more worldly (hierarchal, top-down) methods.

This isn't the first time that type of thing has happened either. Consider the issue regarding the choice between Judges and Kings from the Old Testament. Too many churches are being run as corporations, change the name "Board of Directors" to "Elders" and there you have it.

An excellent post!!!

 

[Adullam]

Modern Christianity is the very reverse of early Christianity. So it follows that pastor would be put at the top. We have gone from God's perspective to man's perspective.

Being a pastor is the least of the spiritual functions in the church. Once a man is truly on the path to becoming a saint and is led by the Spirit himself...he doesn't need to be shepherded by another man.

It is the youngest and humblest man that should function as a pastor to the newly arrived of the brethren. Only such a one has the time to spend that much time with the new ones to get to know them intimately.