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The Bible provides a specific example of one who blasphemed God and Christ but did not become guilty of unforgivable sin. This one was Saul, or the apostle Paul, prior to his conversion. Paul wrote to Timothy: “Formerly I was a blasphemer [abusive speaker] and a persecutor and an insolent man.” (1 Timothy 1:13)

Before his conversion, Paul regarded disciples of Jesus Christ as apostates deserving of death. He felt that the Mosaic law approved of his course, for that law stated regarding an apostate: “You must not accede to his wish or listen to him, nor should your eye feel sorry for him, nor must you feel compassion, nor cover him protectively; but you should kill him without fail.” (Deuteronomy 13:8, 9) Convinced that he was right, Paul continued to act against Christ’s disciples in a high-handed, arrogant manner and so revealed himself to be an “insolent man.” As a persecutor of Christians, he was one like those of whom Jesus said to his disciples: “Everyone that kills you will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God.” (John 16:2) Paul was guilty of blaspheming or speaking abusively of the Son of God. His hatred for Christ’s disciples demonstrated that he viewed Jesus as an impostor and thus he reproached the Christ. By speaking abusively of the Son, Paul was also guilty of blaspheming the Father whom Jesus represented. (John 7:29; Matthew 27:39; Mark 15:29; Luke 23:39; Jude 8)

After his conversion, the apostle Paul came to appreciate how perilously close he had come to committing the unforgivable sin. In his letter to Timothy, he acknowledged the great mercy that had been shown him and also indicated why he could be forgiven. We read: “I was shown mercy, because I was ignorant and acted with a lack of faith.” (1 Timothy 1:13) Note that Paul, before his conversion, did not knowingly fight against God and Christ. He was ignorant, blind to the truth about the Son of God, and so without faith in Jesus Christ. Therefore, the appeal of the dying Stephen, whose murder Paul approved, was also in Paul’s behalf: “Jehovah, do not charge this sin against them.” (Acts 7:60) At heart, Paul really wanted to do what was right, as is evident from his zeal for Jewish tradition and his strict adherence to the teaching of the Pharisees. (Philippians 3:5, 6)

So, when Jesus Christ himself imparted understanding to him, the persecutor Saul did not hesitate to change his course. Soon he found himself among the hated, persecuted, abusively spoken-of disciples of the Son of God. (Acts 9:3-25; 18:5, 6)

The case of Paul can serve as an encouragement to all who, in ignorance, may have proved themselves to be fighters against God and Christ. Their blasphemy or abusive speech can be forgiven them if they repent. The apostle Paul himself made a strong point of this, saying: “Faithful and deserving of full acceptance is the saying that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am foremost. Nevertheless, the reason why I was shown mercy was that by means of me as the foremost case Christ Jesus might demonstrate all his long-suffering for a sample of those who are going to rest their faith on him for everlasting life.”(1 Timothy 1:15, 16)

How, then, is it that one can be guilty of the unforgivable sin? Persons who with full knowledge deliberately oppose God and Christ, hide the truth and propagate falsehoods make themselves guilty of sinning against God’s spirit, a sin that cannot be forgiven. This is what certain Pharisees did in the days of Jesus’ earthly ministry. They were eyewitnesses of the miracles and powerful works of God’s spirit operating through Jesus Christ. But they refused to glorify Jehovah God. For selfish reasons, they attributed to Satan the work of God through Christ. In this way they sinned against God’s spirit. (Matthew 12:24-32)

Other incidents reported in the Bible also illustrate that certain religious leaders deliberately placed themselves in opposition to the operation of the holy spirit. After Jesus resurrected Lazarus from the dead, they were determined to have Jesus put to death. (John 11:47-53) But that was not all. The Scriptures tell us: “The chief priests now took counsel to kill Lazarus also, because on account of him many of the Jews were going there and putting faith in Jesus.” (John 12:10, 11)

Later, when soldier guards stationed at the tomb brought back a report that Jesus had been raised from the dead, the chief priests were determined to hide the facts. What did they do? The Bible answers: “After these had gathered together with the older men and taken counsel, they gave a sufficient number of silver pieces to the soldiers and said: ‘Say, “His disciples came in the night and stole him while we were sleeping.” And if this gets to the governor’s ears, we will persuade him and will set you free from worry.’” (Matthew 28:11-14)

So, the Scriptures make it clear that sin against the spirit involves acting knowingly and deliberately against the undeniable evidence of the holy spirit’s operation, as did the chief priests and certain Pharisees in the days of Jesus’ earthly ministry. However, anyone who may in ignorance blaspheme or speak abusively of God and Christ can be forgiven, provided that he is genuinely repentant. Nonetheless, since it is possible for a person to blaspheme against God’s spirit, this emphasizes the importance of keeping as far away from sinful speech as possible. (James 3:2-10) We should strive to imitate the example of the apostle Paul after his conversion. He said: “I pummel my body and lead it as a slave, that, after I have preached to others, I myself should not become disapproved somehow.” (1 Corinthians 9:27)
 
The Bible provides a specific example of one who blasphemed God and Christ but did not become guilty of unforgivable sin. This one was Saul, or the apostle Paul, prior to his conversion. Paul wrote to Timothy: “Formerly I was a blasphemer [abusive speaker] and a persecutor and an insolent man.” (1 Timothy 1:13)

Before his conversion, Paul regarded disciples of Jesus Christ as apostates deserving of death. He felt that the Mosaic law approved of his course, for that law stated regarding an apostate: “You must not accede to his wish or listen to him, nor should your eye feel sorry for him, nor must you feel compassion, nor cover him protectively; but you should kill him without fail.” (Deuteronomy 13:8, 9) Convinced that he was right, Paul continued to act against Christ’s disciples in a high-handed, arrogant manner and so revealed himself to be an “insolent man.” As a persecutor of Christians, he was one like those of whom Jesus said to his disciples: “Everyone that kills you will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God.” (John 16:2) Paul was guilty of blaspheming or speaking abusively of the Son of God. His hatred for Christ’s disciples demonstrated that he viewed Jesus as an impostor and thus he reproached the Christ. By speaking abusively of the Son, Paul was also guilty of blaspheming the Father whom Jesus represented. (John 7:29; Matthew 27:39; Mark 15:29; Luke 23:39; Jude 8)

After his conversion, the apostle Paul came to appreciate how perilously close he had come to committing the unforgivable sin. In his letter to Timothy, he acknowledged the great mercy that had been shown him and also indicated why he could be forgiven. We read: “I was shown mercy, because I was ignorant and acted with a lack of faith.” (1 Timothy 1:13) Note that Paul, before his conversion, did not knowingly fight against God and Christ. He was ignorant, blind to the truth about the Son of God, and so without faith in Jesus Christ. Therefore, the appeal of the dying Stephen, whose murder Paul approved, was also in Paul’s behalf: “Jehovah, do not charge this sin against them.” (Acts 7:60) At heart, Paul really wanted to do what was right, as is evident from his zeal for Jewish tradition and his strict adherence to the teaching of the Pharisees. (Philippians 3:5, 6)

So, when Jesus Christ himself imparted understanding to him, the persecutor Saul did not hesitate to change his course. Soon he found himself among the hated, persecuted, abusively spoken-of disciples of the Son of God. (Acts 9:3-25; 18:5, 6)

The case of Paul can serve as an encouragement to all who, in ignorance, may have proved themselves to be fighters against God and Christ. Their blasphemy or abusive speech can be forgiven them if they repent. The apostle Paul himself made a strong point of this, saying: “Faithful and deserving of full acceptance is the saying that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of these I am foremost. Nevertheless, the reason why I was shown mercy was that by means of me as the foremost case Christ Jesus might demonstrate all his long-suffering for a sample of those who are going to rest their faith on him for everlasting life.”(1 Timothy 1:15, 16)

How, then, is it that one can be guilty of the unforgivable sin? Persons who with full knowledge deliberately oppose God and Christ, hide the truth and propagate falsehoods make themselves guilty of sinning against God’s spirit, a sin that cannot be forgiven. This is what certain Pharisees did in the days of Jesus’ earthly ministry. They were eyewitnesses of the miracles and powerful works of God’s spirit operating through Jesus Christ. But they refused to glorify Jehovah God. For selfish reasons, they attributed to Satan the work of God through Christ. In this way they sinned against God’s spirit. (Matthew 12:24-32)

Other incidents reported in the Bible also illustrate that certain religious leaders deliberately placed themselves in opposition to the operation of the holy spirit. After Jesus resurrected Lazarus from the dead, they were determined to have Jesus put to death. (John 11:47-53) But that was not all. The Scriptures tell us: “The chief priests now took counsel to kill Lazarus also, because on account of him many of the Jews were going there and putting faith in Jesus.” (John 12:10, 11)

Later, when soldier guards stationed at the tomb brought back a report that Jesus had been raised from the dead, the chief priests were determined to hide the facts. What did they do? The Bible answers: “After these had gathered together with the older men and taken counsel, they gave a sufficient number of silver pieces to the soldiers and said: ‘Say, “His disciples came in the night and stole him while we were sleeping.” And if this gets to the governor’s ears, we will persuade him and will set you free from worry.’” (Matthew 28:11-14)

So, the Scriptures make it clear that sin against the spirit involves acting knowingly and deliberately against the undeniable evidence of the holy spirit’s operation, as did the chief priests and certain Pharisees in the days of Jesus’ earthly ministry. However, anyone who may in ignorance blaspheme or speak abusively of God and Christ can be forgiven, provided that he is genuinely repentant. Nonetheless, since it is possible for a person to blaspheme against God’s spirit, this emphasizes the importance of keeping as far away from sinful speech as possible. (James 3:2-10) We should strive to imitate the example of the apostle Paul after his conversion. He said: “I pummel my body and lead it as a slave, that, after I have preached to others, I myself should not become disapproved somehow.” (1 Corinthians 9:27)
It didn't occur to me to post examples of Christ's teaching. Paul is the BEST example:

30 "He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters abroad.
31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven (ἀφεθήσεται) men , but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven (ἀφεθήσεται) men.
32 "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven (ἀφεθήσεται) him ; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven (ἀφεθήσεται) him, either in this age or in the age to come. (Matt. 12:30-32 NKJ)

Understandably men might oppose the "Son of Man" because they do not appreciate Jesus is "God incarnate", and so don't realize they are opposing God. But if they know the are fighting God, their sin and blasphemy will NOT be forgiven, in this age or the age to come.

Same with those sinning against the Holy Spirit in Christ's day, they knew only God could raise the dead and heal the sick as instantly and completely as did the Spirit, therefore it was obvious God was doing it. So whoever blasphemed the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or age to come.

Paul perfectly illustrates this truth.
 
Yes, really:

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Eph. 2:4-10 NKJ)
That part is true but we still must suffer and do penance heb 12:-15

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:


Rev 2: 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Rev 2:23 .....I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Why not I know Thy faith?
Reward according to youre faith?

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;


Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
 
Penance is biblical!
Eph. 5:27.
Acts 2:38.
Acts 14:14;
1 Sam. 7:6; 1 Kings 21:20-21, 27; Jer. 3:3, 7, 9; John 1:2; 3:4-5.
1 Sam. 31:13; 2 Sam. 1:12; 3:35; Esther 3:15; 4:1, 16; Psalms 34:13; 2 Chron. 20:3.
1 Sam. 14:24; 2 Sam. 12:16, 22;

In reference cited above, need for interior penitence is clearly illustrated: 1 Sam. 7:3; Jer. 36:6-7; John 3:8;
28. Cf. Luke 2:37; Eccles. 31:12, 17-19; 37:32-34.
Matt. 6:17.
Heb. 10:1.
Mark 1:15.
Heb. 1:2; Col. 1:19
Eph. 1:23
Luke 5:8 and 7:36-50.
Rom. 6:3-11; Col. 2:11-15; 5:1-4.
Phil. 3:10-11; Rom. 8:17.
Rom. 6:10; 14:8; 2 Cor. 5:15; Phil 1:21.
Gal. 2:20;
Gal. 4:19; Phil. 3:21; 2 Tim. 2:11; Eph. 2:6; Col. 2:12 etc.; Rom. 8:17.
 
Zacharias and his wife Elisabeth were righteous by following the commandments and ordinances of the Lord.
Like Paul in Phil 3:6.
This would include offering the proper sacrifices for their sins.
That is how things were in the OT, when men couldn't cast off the flesh and walk in the Spirit.
We know now that the righteousness of the Law pales in comparison to true righteousness.
That we have by faith and baptismal regeneration right?
 


Amazing Search technology, I'm amazed how easily answers to questions can be found. Who would have thought this could happen in America of all places!

Only a few years ago, we had to go to the public library! I recall doing that as a kid. It was up hill both ways, had to walk 10 miles with no shoes! 100 lbs (not kilos) of books on my back, trudging across the tundra, mile after mile, In search of St. Alfonso's Pancake Breakfast!
Cool
I have a problem with reformed theology or reformation in general
 
Cool
I have a problem with reformed theology or reformation in general
My posts reflect minor disagreement on hell, predestination. But the Reformation restored salvation by grace alone through faith, and sola scriptura. For that it gets an A+ from me. It may be too late for Evangelization to be aided by a better understanding of Hades, we are so far into the End Time and apostasy all around us is really more important than my relatively minor tweaks.

I am really offended our Just and Merciful and Loving God is hated without cause by those who believe there is no hope for the ignorant to be forgiven in Hades, and so they declare God unjust and cruel. They have been among some of them most effective enemies of Christianity, and I'd like to "pull the rug out from under their feet."
 
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That part is true but we still must suffer and do penance heb 12:-15

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:


Rev 2: 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Rev 2:23 .....I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Why not I know Thy faith?
Reward according to youre faith?

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;


Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Penance:

  • 1.voluntary self-punishment inflicted as an outward expression of repentance for having done wrong.
Not one verse you cited describes "penance". Rather they speak of commitment to Christ , true belief.

We cannot add to the infinite value of Christ's blood to redeem us, our paltry defective valueless works of penance.

If you said a Christian's life should be characterized by constant repentance for sins we do daily, I'd agree to that 100%. But to think that will help redeem my soul is a contradiction of salvation by grace alone and not by works:

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Eph. 2:8-9 NKJ)

And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. (Rom. 11:6 NKJ)
 
My posts reflect minor disagreement on hell, predestination. But the Reformation restored salvation by grace alone through faith, and sola scriptura. For that it gets an A+ from me. It may be too late for Evangelization to be aided by a better understanding of Hades, we are so far into the End Time and apostasy all around us is really more important than my relatively minor tweaks.

I am really offended our Just and Merciful and Loving God is hated without cause by those who believe there is no hope for the ignorant to be forgiven in Hades, and so they declare God unjust and cruel. They have been among some of them most effective enemies of Christianity, and I'd like to "pull the rug out from under their feet."
Sorry if this is a discordant tone to you

Reformation questions?

How can truth be reformed?

Where does scripture authorize man to have a reformation?

How could the church founded by God (Jesus Christ) Matt 16:18 with the guarantee of God (the Holy Spirit) Jn 16:13 lose its chief truth and doctrine?

Where does the Bible never say sola scriptura?

Where does scripture give authority to protest the church founded by God? (Jesus Christ) Matt 16:18

No new doctrine or public revelation the five solas are innovation and 16th century novelties which the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church never taught, but has condemned as error.

Not one of the so called reformers was an apostles having authority from Christ, why listen to them.

No one has authority to reject Christ and his church and start new churches, why have anything to do with those whose sects and doctrines are the tradition of men?

Thanks
Questions welcomed
 
Penance:

  • 1.voluntary self-punishment inflicted as an outward expression of repentance for having done wrong.
Not one verse you cited describes "penance". Rather they speak of commitment to Christ , true belief.

We cannot add to the infinite value of Christ's blood to redeem us, our paltry defective valueless works of penance.

If you said a Christian's life should be characterized by constant repentance for sins we do daily, I'd agree to that 100%. But to think that will help redeem my soul is a contradiction of salvation by grace alone and not by works:

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Eph. 2:8-9 NKJ)

And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. (Rom. 11:6 NKJ)
We are members of Christ united by grace and our actions are meritorious because of His grace

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing, so with Him we can do all things

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
 
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