The Process Of Justification

[JLB]

Yes, in the bearing of others sins, patiently and with compassion and kindness and humility. Reread the passages in my earlier post.

This is how you 'wash the feet' of others in humility:

"12 So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; 13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you." (Colossians 3:12-13 NASB)

If all the church is doing is washing literal dirty feet and not doing the above they have completely missed Christ's point. Completely.

If the church leadership would serve the sheep as Jesus served, rather than building huge buildings as monuments to themselves and owning several multi million dollar homes, and expensive cars and fine dining and costly clothing.... then the Church would not be the icon of Hypocrisy it is today.

Jesus wants Peter to learn the way of God's Kingdom, which is the way of the greater serving the others, not as the gentiles or the Pharisee's but as the example Jesus has shown him.

The example is about the greater serving the others.

It's an example in Humility.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jesus gave His disciples an example of Humility, to show how the greatest in the kingdom serves the others.

This was an example for them to follow.

12 So when He had washed their feet, taken His garments, and sat down again, He said to them, “Do you know what I have done to you? 13 You call Me Teacher and Lord, and you say well, for so I am. 14 If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet.15 For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.16 Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. 17 If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them. John 13:12-17


JLB

Literally washing one's feet is one way you can fulfill Christ's command to be humble and loving, serving others. The danger is thinking this is a legalistic 'law' that we have to do, and if we simply do it we're good. The symbolism of the cleansing of water shows us a far greater spiritual lesson being taught here than just washing someone's dirty feet. That doesn't even mean anything anymore in modern society.

 

[JLB]

Please continue in your teaching about how Peter was to justify the others after Jesus ascended to Heaven.

:halo



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Jesus wants Peter to learn the way of God's Kingdom, which is the way of the greater serving the others

Yes, in the humility of forgiveness, expressed in kindness toward others, especially our enemies (i.e. Judas).

 

[JLB]

Literally washing one's feet is one way you can fulfill Christ's command to be humble and loving, serving others. The danger is thinking this is a legalistic 'law' that we have to do, and if we simply do it we're good. The symbolism of the cleansing of water shows us a far greater spiritual lesson being taught here than just washing someone's dirty feet. That doesn't even mean anything anymore in modern society.

Foot washing, in that culture was the lowliest job, that was for the servant of the household.

It's not about "foot washing", it's about the greatest among you serving the others.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Please continue in your teaching about how Peter was to justify the others after Jesus ascended to Heaven.

:halo



JLB

Uh, oh. Do we have another case of 'not listening'?
I said the washing of the feet is not the justification. The washing of the whole body is the justification that doesn't need to be reapplied (Titus 3:5-7 NASB).

I feel the Spirit beginning to be dried up by your contentions. I won't hang around long enough for that to happen. I'm filled with the Spirit this morning and I'm not going to let petty contentiousness dry it up.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It's not about "foot washing", it's about the greatest among you serving the others.

Okay good, you get that it's not really about literal foot washing. Now meditate on the connection between the whole body being clean and dirty feet. That's Jesus' cue to us as to what this is about. The dirt is a metaphor. There's the dirtiness of one's whole body, and there's the dirtiness of one's feet. Think spiritually.

The justification you received at rebirth in the washing of your whole body does not have to be repeated (John 13:10).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Foot washing, in that culture was the lowliest job, that was for the servant of the household.

Forgiveness for others expressed in kindness towards them is an ugly job. The servants in God's household have been called to do that job. Pride is probably the biggest resistance to doing that job we have been called to do.

 

[reba]

1Pe_4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

Jas_5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

a couple verses i find a interesting sideline to this topic..

 

[MarkT]

If the church leadership would serve the sheep as Jesus served, rather than building huge buildings as monuments to themselves and owning several multi million dollar homes, and expensive cars and fine dining and costly clothing.... then the Church would not be the icon of Hypocrisy it is today.

Jesus wants Peter to learn the way of God's Kingdom, which is the way of the greater serving the others, not as the gentiles or the Pharisee's but as the example Jesus has shown him.

The example is about the greater serving the others.

It's an example in Humility.


JLB

That's right. Jesus said, 'whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. Mt. 23:12

To be a disciple we have to imitate Jesus who humbled himself to be exalted by God.

As for the foot washing, Jesus was sent to preach the good news of the kingdom.

How beautiful upon the mountains

are the feet of him who brings good tidings,

who publishes peace, who brings good tidings of good,

who publishes salvation,

who says to Zion, “Your God reigns.”

Jesus washed the disciples' feet before sending them out to preach the good news. So as Jesus fulfilled the prophet Isaiah. Isa. 52:7 so now he washed the disciples' feet, so that when the disciples entered a town, if the people did not receive them, the dust of the places they went to would act as a testimony against them. Mark 6:11, Luke 9:5, Mt. 10:14

 

[JLB]

Forgiveness for others expressed in kindness towards them is an ugly job. The servants in God's household have been called to do that job. Pride is probably the biggest resistance to doing that job we have been called to do.

:amen


A big Amen to that.

 

[JLB]

Okay good, you get that it's not really about literal foot washing. Now meditate on the connection between the whole body being clean and dirty feet. That's Jesus' cue to us as to what this is about. The dirt is a metaphor. There's the dirtiness of one's whole body, and there's the dirtiness of one's feet. Think spiritually.

The justification you received at rebirth in the washing of your whole body does not have to be repeated (John 13:10).

It's about literal foot washing, as an example in that Culture to His disciples.

We in our society can also learn from this literal example.

Men, in the household called to serve the family.

Church leaders called to serve the people.

It's a far reaching example, of the greatest serving the others, rather than the laity serving the leadership, which is the sin of the Nicolatians.



JLB

 

[MarkT]

Noah became an "heir of righteousness" by faith. Obviously "inherited" the faith from Abel and Enoch. I'm sure we agree that the faith being talked about here is "justifying faith". He "inherited" this justifying faith from two people who had "commendable faith". Noah was justified by faith. Whether you consider it "commendable" or not is up to you. Whatever label you want to use, the facts are that he inherited it from Abel and Enoch and it justified him.

Faith isn't something that is inheritable. You can't pass it on. It's not a physical characteristic. The truth is, Abraham was chosen and created by God, and God, the potter, filled him with a measure of faith. Give glory to God!

This is obviously the exact same kind of faith that has been mentioned in all the previous verses. It's the faith that "commended [Abel] as righteous", led to Enoch being "taken from this life" by God, and made Noah an "heir of righteousness", the righteousness shared by both the men listed before him. This is the exact same kind of faith that all the other "men [women] of old" have, including Rahab, who was justified by her faith, yet not mentioned in Hebrews as "righteous". I guess the author figured he didn't have to make an announcement about everyone's justification. We could draw that obvious assumption from the first 8 verses.

The author is obviously talking about the faith that justified these "men of old". First, Abel is shown to be justified, then Enoch, then Noah, all using the same word "pistis", "By faith". What makes you think that the faith mentioned in verse 8 and connected to Abraham, was somehow not a justifying faith? What sets Abraham's "pistis" apart from the ones that came before? Don't you see a running theme throughout Hebrews 11, and isn't this theme that it was always faith that justified these "men of old", not "works of the law"?

Still not sure what your point is.

Re. Heb. 11 The author is talking about what the men of old did that attested to their faith. By faith Abel offered a more acceptable sacrifice. By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, took heed and constructed an ark for the saving of his household.

I agree faith is faith. And I agree God approved them. So what? If you want to say Abraham was approved in Ge. 12 OK There's a strong possibility. I would say so too. It's difficult not to jump to a conclusion. However we don't see the judgment of God until Ge. 22 But let's say Abraham was approved in Gen. 12. "By faith he obeyed when he was called to go to a place which he was to receive as an inheritance". Heb. 11:8 Abraham put on the robe of righteousness. Isa. 61:10 Did he ever take it off? No. In fact he grew strong in his faith. No distrust made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, Ro. 4:26 He did not weaken in faith Romans 4:19 Give glory to God!

Still I was say he was approved by faith after he did everything he was given to do.

 

[MarkT]

This means that Abraham was justified in Gen. 12, then again in Gen. 15, therefore justification (being made/declared righteous) is a process, not a one time event.

Are you saying that in the light of Christ?

Jesus was put to death for our trespasses and he was raised for our justification.
Romans 4:25
who was put to death for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

Jesus was put to death once and he was raised from the dead one time, and we are justified in him if we believe.

 

[dadof10]

Dadof10: First of all, I said you haven't addressed Heb. 11:4-8.

You misunderstood what I did say about it.

You have not said one, solitary word about these verses, and to to say you have addressed it "is a lie". You can shut me up and make me look like a complete fool, very easily. All you have to do is copy and paste your in depth exegesis that actually uses these verses. Go ahead, I'm waiting...

Besides not wanting to distract from John 13:5-11, if I jump back into Hebrews 11 (even now I'm biting my tongue) I'll have to untwist your misunderstanding of my argument. I'm doing that now with John 13.

All you need to do is answer my question, like I answered yours, and we can continue the discussion.

I have noticed a trend in your posts that I don't see in anyone else's. In every discussion, you complain about being "misunderstood". Whether it's with me or someone else, you consistently whine about not being understood, or your opponent "not getting it". I thought it was just me, but it's everyone. Certainly people misunderstand each other sometimes on forums, but the sheer volume of your complaints is overwhelming. Just a thought. Maybe the problem isn't everyone else being too ignorant to get your brilliantly conceived arguments, maybe it's you and your arguments not making really that much sense...

 

[JLB]

Okay good, you get that it's not really about literal foot washing.

Yes, it's about the greatest among them, serving the rest, as the scripture itself so plainly says.

For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you. John 13:16




JLB

 

[Obadiah]

Over 1000 posts and more than once this has degenerated into personal insults, rude questioning of intelligence, unwanted accusations, etc. It's time for another break. This thread will be closed for a time.