2ndRateMind
Member
So far as I can make out, this line of preaching advocates poor people giving money to rich pastors. But I wonder if people here may have a different perspective?
Best wishes to all, 2RM
Best wishes to all, 2RM
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That is the way it should be, IMO (and I think God’s as well). The minister, although he makes his living from the tithe, is not above tithing himself.I am our church treasurer and we recently called a new pastor. I will not share names or amounts because it is nobody's business but our pastor gives to the offering plate as well, which caught me a little off guard.
I see, that's a good in-a-nutshell explanation.I'd love to try your food!
But on the prosperity gospel: the deal is, you give money to your pastor. Then God gives you more money back. The more you give, the more and quicker the payback. As you can see, it does not really appeal to those who are intelligent and rich already, but to people who are desperate, not particularly well educated, and most importantly, poor. This is a travesty of Jesus' message, and should be called out whenever and wherever it is to be found.
Best wishes, 2RM.
I thoroughly approve of leadership by example.I am our church treasurer and we recently called a new pastor. I will not share names or amounts because it is nobody's business but our pastor gives to the offering plate as well, which caught me a little off guard.
It is a ponzi scheme.I'd love to try your food!
But on the prosperity gospel: the deal is, you give money to your pastor. Then God gives you more money back. The more you give, the more and quicker the payback. As you can see, it does not really appeal to those who are intelligent and rich already, but to people who are desperate, not particularly well educated, and most importantly, poor. This is a travesty of Jesus' message, and should be called out whenever and wherever it is to be found.
Best wishes, 2RM.
there is probably a law against that - or maybe not - but in any case i thought charities were exempt from taxes so what is up there? - was your church not a registered charity and why not? - that would have been the best tax break of allWhen I was an elder in a local church the pastor arranged to receive a $10,000 "donation" from another pastor. Why the quotes? Because the donating pastor could reduce his taxes because of the gift -- on one condition. The following year our pastor decided to give the $10,000 back to the donor's church -- so he could take a tax exemption for the "gift".
Clever! When I questioned this behavior, I was told that "everybody does it". It was one of the main reasons that I left my position at the church, and eventually left altogether.
The church's tax lawyer never said it was ok, because it isn't. The money wasn't donated; it was loaned. It was a deliberate scheme to gain a tax advantage by calling a loan a donation. It was one of the main factors in my resigning my position and having my name removed as a church officer.there is probably a law against that - or maybe not - but in any case i thought charities were exempt from taxes so what is up there? - was your church not a registered charity and why not? - that would have been the best tax break of all
also tax lawyers are up on these things so if the church's tax lawyer said it was ok then i guess it was - anyone who doesn't take advantage of tax laws is mishandling God's money too imo
The church's tax lawyer never said it was ok, because it isn't. The money wasn't donated; it was loaned. It was a deliberate scheme to gain a tax advantage by calling a loan a donation. It was one of the main factors in my resigning my position and having my name removed as a church officer.
No one here, I think, has yet argued that Christians ought to be poor. My contention is simply that no one should exploit the poor to become rich.My view:
The following Bible verses are clear and they must be
incorporated into the conversation about the gospel
and prosperity. If we deliberately choose to ignore these
two passages then it will be clear that we are not willing
to make a serious effort to find the true Biblical balance
on what the Bible teaches about the gospel and prosperity.
"Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed
down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into
your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to
you.” Luke 6:38
Compelling conclusion from Luke 6:38
We live in a Give-Get-Give-Get-Give-Get-Give world.
The more we give, the more we get to give.
To give to help others.
Th give to support His Great Commission worldwide.
Etc
"Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be
food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty,
“and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven
and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room
enough to store it." Malachi 3:10
Malachi 3:10 specifically and boldly teaches that God does not
want His people to be poor.
The notion that God wants His people to be poor is utterly
impossible to reconcile with Luke 6:38 and Malachi 3:10
_________________________________
And there are other concepts to be considered too.
Here is one.
"God wants us to be poor"__The Poverty Gospel Christians
Rebuttal:
The notion that says the Father gave us His Son to die on the
cross for us, but He does NOT want to give us a lot of money is
irrational.
"He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him Him up for us
all ~ how will He not also, along with Him,, graciously give us all
things." Romans 8:32
____________________________
Here is another:
How can a Christian $fund The Gideon's International if he is
at the poverty level? Are Bibles free? Or do they cost $$money?
In my city, just last week The Gideon's International gave out
5000 Bibles on the campus of a large secular university. Assume
each one cost them $4.00. How much $$money is that?
_________________
"Members of The Gideon's International currently average
distribution of over 70 million Bibles annually. On average,
more than two copies of the Bible are distributed per second
through Gideons International.[2] As of April 2015, Gideons
International has distributed over two billion Bibles."
__________________The Gideons International - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
How much $$ money is needed to distribute 70 million Bibles
every 12 months?
How can a Christian $fund the Lord Jesus' Great Commission if he
is at the poverty level?
The New Testament is bold and clear on the principle behind the
parable of The Good Samaritan. Get out there and help others
is the message of that parable.
So?
So how can a Christian $fund Samaritan's Purse if he is at the
poverty level?
Samaritan's Purse: Helping In Jesus' Name
Samaritan's Purse out there helping people 24/7/365
and "it ain't $$ cheap either" ~ so how does a Christian
living at the poverty level help $fund Christian's Helping
Others Organizations?
My view:
We don't have to choose between the prosperity gospel
and the poverty gospel..
It takes a lot of $$ money to fund the Lord Jesus' Great Commission
worldwide.
I view $ money as nothing more than a tool to be used to help others
and to $ fund the Lord Jesus's Great Commission. So? So I want all the
$$$$$$ Money i can get my hands on honestly. I want huge enormous
bags of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ money.
There is a principle in Matthew 13:12
Its the principle of The Law Of Use.
The Law Of Use says that if you use what you are given
then you will be given MORE , , , and you will have ABUNDANCE , , ,
but if you do NOT use what you have been given then
you will have taken away from you, that which you have been given.
Best Regards.
JAG
``
That's good news that nobody here wants Christians to be poor.No one here, I think, has yet argued that Christians ought to be poor. My contention is simply that no one should exploit the poor to become rich.
Best wishes, 2RM.