Bible Study The Rapture

[Eugene]

There are five crowns as our reward that we received when Christ returns.
1. Crown of life James 1:12
2. Crown of glory 1 Peter 5:1-5
3. Crown of rejoicing 1 Thessalonians 2:19, 20; Philippians 4:1
4. Crown of righteousness 2 Timothy 4:8; Isaiah 45:24; 61:10
5. Crown incorruptible 1 Corinthians 9:25-27

What gives you the idea all the Church receives all the available crowns? What of those of Philadelphia that might lose their crowns as those of Rev 3:11?
Then there are those of Smyrna who only qualify for the crown of life by remaining faithful unto death of Rev 2:10.

 

[for_his_glory]

What gives you the idea all the Church receives all the available crowns? What of those of Philadelphia that might lose their crowns as those of Rev 3:11?
Then there are those of Smyrna who only qualify for the crown of life by remaining faithful unto death of Rev 2:10.

I need to rephrase that. There are five crowns that Jesus will bring with him, but not everyone will receive them all.
Thank you for pointing that out to me

1. CROWN OF LIFE - Martyr's crown
2. CROWN OF GLORY - Elder or Pastor Crown
3. CROWN OF REJOICING - soul winner’s crown
4. CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS - A crown for those who love his appearing
5. CROWN INCORRUPTIBLE - An incorruptible crown is a victor’s crown

 

[Douglas Summers]

From the time Satan is bound I can not understand why God would wait another 1000 years to release him. What would be the purpose?

Through the creation till even now when God has tested man with instruction on what to do or how to live (do not eat of the fruit of the tree) (obey the laws) (stay out of Egypt) (do not worship other god's) and so on, But man has failed every one of them. Those born during the millennium have never been tested just as the rest of mankind has been tested from Adam till the beginning of the Millennium. Those that were never tempted will have to be tested.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I need to rephrase that. There are five crowns that Jesus will bring with him, but not everyone will receive them all.
Thank you for pointing that out to me

1. CROWN OF LIFE - Martyr's crown
2. CROWN OF GLORY - Elder or Pastor Crown
3. CROWN OF REJOICING - soul winner’s crown
4. CROWN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS - A crown for those who love his appearing
5. CROWN INCORRUPTIBLE - An incorruptible crown is a victor’s crown

Glory, I believe every born again believer will receive some kind of Crown or reward from God, some more than others, but nevertheless, a reward......., for no believer can deny Christ. We will have to give an account of ourselves before the Lord (Rom. 14:11-13) and we may be ashamed before the Lord, but grace does not have an end for the Son's of God. Just as every star has a different brightness, nevertheless it is bright enough to be seen in the Heavens (1 Cor. 15:41-45) For all things will become new and no remembrance of old things. I don't see God being angry for eternity at His son's. Chastisement yes.

 

[Eugene]

Hi Brother buddyt, and welcome to CF.net in Jesus' name. Thanks for your input in this subject.

Mt 24:5-12 he tells you what shall happen before his return. Not maybe, not could, but shall happen. Mt 24:13 reads : But he that shall endure unto the end the same shall be saved. Who is he speaking of here ?

Just my thoughts, but if these are the elect, aren't these already saved as being in Christ? How did they become sons of God as it were? Enduring or believing? And so, if we aren't saved by works, what manner of salvation might this be?
This is the time of Jacob's trouble, the times are so severe all flesh could be lost (Mt 24:22) if that time is not shortened, and those enduring to the end of that time are physically saved to enter the millennial reign of Jesus. The Church will have already been caught up unto our Savior by this time.
What happens to those that are not the elect?
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Was Noah taken away or provided deliverance from the flood? Those taken at this time will be the non believers to await judgment just as those in Noah's time.

Standing in the Holy Place. The anti Christ Satan

I'll just ask what earthly place you think will be holy: a temple, or possibly the man of sin attempting to stand in the place of God? Will he be somewhat like Nebuchadnezzar in Dan 3:12. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego would not worship the golden image which Nebuchadnezzar had set up.

 

[for_his_glory]

Through the creation till even now when God has tested man with instruction on what to do or how to live (do not eat of the fruit of the tree) (obey the laws) (stay out of Egypt) (do not worship other god's) and so on, But man has failed every one of them. Those born during the millennium have never been tested just as the rest of mankind has been tested from Adam till the beginning of the Millennium. Those that were never tempted will have to be tested.

Again, I do not believe in a literal 1000 years. A 1000 years in Rev 20 is not literal years, but only symbolic of a certain period of time as nowhere else in scripture does it mention a literal 1000 year reign of Christ here on earth, but symbolic as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

 

[for_his_glory]

Glory, I believe every born again believer will receive some kind of Crown or reward from God, some more than others, but nevertheless, a reward......., for no believer can deny Christ. We will have to give an account of ourselves before the Lord (Rom. 14:11-13) and we may be ashamed before the Lord, but grace does not have an end for the Son's of God. Just as every star has a different brightness, nevertheless it is bright enough to be seen in the Heavens (1 Cor. 15:41-45) For all things will become new and no remembrance of old things. I don't see God being angry for eternity at His son's. Chastisement yes.

I already said they will.

 

[for_his_glory]

Matthew 24:3 What did Jesus answer when he was asked about his return. And what did he mean. The first words out of his mouth. Take heed that no man deceive you. A child can understand this ( he's saying your going to be lied too.) Verses 5- 12 he tells you what shall happen before his return. Not maybe, not could, but shall happen. Verse 13 reads : But he that shall endure unto the end the same shall be saved. Who is he speaking of here ? (Those who know the real Jesus.) Verses 15 Who is he speaking of ? Standing in the Holy Place. The anti Christ Satan . Verse 21 For then shall be great tribulation such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time no nor shall ever be. Verse 22 And except those days be shortened there should no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened. Why would he say this if your going to be gone ? Who are these elect ? They surely ARE NOT those who do not believe. The so called LEFT BEHIND.

Verse 26 Wherefore if they say unto you Behold he is in the desert go not forth or ; behold he is in the secret chambers believe it not. Verses 40 and 41 do not suggest that these people will be swooped up in the clouds. But rather tell you Satan will have convinced those he is Christ. Thus they will receive his mark. And will be taken first by him. So many will listen to what Man has dreamed up rather than believe what is written and came out of the mouth of our Lord.

For those who jump to 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 First what is the subject here. What is Paul talking about ? Verse 13 He refers to those who have passed on Verse 14 They rose just as Jesus did and will return with him at the second advent. Verse 15 We witch are alive can't prevent those who will return with Jesus. Verse 16 This is the second Advent Christ's return at the 7th Trump Verse 17 The Lords Day the 1,000 year rule of our Lord. Verse 18 So be comforted knowing where the dead are and what is to happen in the in times. And then there is Ezekiel 13:20 God telling us he is against those who teach this False Belief.

Hi buddyt and welcome to CF

I was with you up to the point of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Jesus has never returned for anyone after His ascending to sit at the right hand of the Father being our mediator before God nor has anyone risen up to Him, John 3:13. The resurrection of the dead has not happened yet as it is only our breath/spirit that returns back to God who gave it when this physical body returns to the dust of the ground from where it came from, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7. No one is resurrected until the one and only return of Christ who calls His Bride to meet Him in the air and then forever we will be with Him in all of Gods glory.

The only thing that returns with Jesus is His army of angels He brings with him from heaven. At that time those who have died in the grave will rise first and then we which are alive will be joined with them in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air, Rev 19.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi buddyt and welcome to CF

I was with you up to the point of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Jesus has never returned for anyone after His ascending to sit at the right hand of the Father being our mediator before God nor has anyone risen up to Him, John 3:13. The resurrection of the dead has not happened yet as it is only our breath/spirit that returns back to God who gave it when this physical body returns to the dust of the ground from where it came from, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7. No one is resurrected until the one and only return of Christ who calls His Bride to meet Him in the air and then forever we will be with Him in all of Gods glory.

The only thing that returns with Jesus is His army of angels He brings with him from heaven. At that time those who have died in the grave will rise first and then we which are alive will be joined with them in the clouds to meet Jesus in the air, Rev 19.

Hi FHG,
I'm really bad with escatology.
I think I've asked this before on this thread but received no reply.
Can't remember...

Are you saying Jesus is returning only once?
This is what I would tend to believe.
He will return from the same place He ascended at the end of the world.

Is this what you're saying?
Is this what YOU believe?

 

[Apousía]

Hebrews speaks of apostates crucifying the son of man " all over again "

" For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. "

Wouldn't those be the same " vineyard workers " Jesus himself spoke of in the parable of the Vineyard workers ?

How would they " crucify him afresh " ( again ) if he never returned ?

 

[Douglas Summers]

Again, I do not believe in a literal 1000 years. A 1000 years in Rev 20 is not literal years, but only symbolic of a certain period of time as nowhere else in scripture does it mention a literal 1000 year reign of Christ here on earth, but symbolic as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.

I believe it is. I don't see that your Scripture proofs have any bearing on the 1000 years. Even if you don't believe it, the principle is still the same. You just can't do away with it so it fits a narrative you want to believe, If Christ was generalizing, why would He use 1000 years instead of just saying a period of time?

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe it is. I don't see that your Scripture proofs have any bearing on the 1000 years. Even if you don't believe it, the principle is still the same. You just can't do away with it so it fits a narrative you want to believe, If Christ was generalizing, why would He use 1000 years instead of just saying a period of time?

You can believe what you want that is your choice. I believe 1000 years is symbolic like all those scriptures I gave about the symbolism of 1000. Why would God wait another 1000 years after destroying the beast, false prophet, the kings (political leaders) of every nation then binding Satan, Rev 19:11-21; 20:1-10, just to cast Satan into the lake of fire.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi FHG,
I'm really bad with escatology.
I think I've asked this before on this thread but received no reply.
Can't remember...

Are you saying Jesus is returning only once?
This is what I would tend to believe.
He will return from the same place He ascended at the end of the world.

Is this what you're saying?
Is this what YOU believe?

Hi wondering,
Yes I believe Jesus only returns once to make an end of all the abominations or in another way of saying it, He will make and end to all sinful things here on earth. It's at that time those in the grave and those who are still alive at His coming will be gathered to Him, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Rev 19.

Acts 1:
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. 12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hebrews speaks of apostates crucifying the son of man " all over again "

" For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. "

Wouldn't those be the same " vineyard workers " Jesus himself spoke of in the parable of the Vineyard workers ?

How would they " crucify him afresh " ( again ) if he never returned ?

This is speaking about those who are mature in the word of God being indwelled by the Holy Spirit. They have tasted the goodness of God and will never turn from Him. Psalms 34:8, John 4:10; Galatians 3:1-5.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi wondering,
Yes I believe Jesus only returns once to make an end of all the abominations or in another way of saying it, He will make and end to all sinful things here on earth. It's at that time those in the grave and those who are still alive at His coming will be gathered to Him, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Rev 19.

Acts 1:
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. 12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.

Some say He's coming back twice...
once for the rapture
and then again at the end.

I read about only one time in the N.T. so I agree with what you've said.

Thanks! (for the scripture too)

 

[reba]

IS there a scripture/passage that says He will return only once?

 

[GodsGrace]

IS there a scripture/passage that says He will return only once?

Hi Reba,
When I say that I only read about Jesus coming back one time, I don't mean a verse.

I'm a bit confused about this since the bible speaks of persons being taken away and one is left...

However, when I put everything together it does seem that Jesus is coming back only one time, and at the end of time.

In Acts 1:11 we're told that Jesus will come back the same way He ascended.

Mathew 24:13 tells us that those that endure till the end will be saved. This must mean that we are all still here, even the saved.

Thessalonians 4:16-17 says that he will descend from heaven with a shout, and the dead in Christ will rise first. "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.”

To me, that sounds like Jesus is coming back one time, at the end of the world.

 

[reba]

Those are all the ones i had in mind ..the verse we all know...
none say only once...

Thinking out loud is all ... We tell our kids this summer we will go to Disneyland ... we go other places in and out of the house before we go to Disneyland ...
One reason i ask is ... Jesus saith ...
Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Joh_20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

And Luke 24 the Emmaus story ... just thinking

 

[GodsGrace]

Those are all the ones i had in mind ..the verse we all know...
none say only once...

Thinking out loud is all ... We tell our kids this summer we will go to Disneyland ... we go other places in and out of the house before we go to Disneyland ...
One reason i ask is ... Jesus saith ...
Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Joh_20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

And Luke 24 the Emmaus story ... just thinking

Are you saying He could just come and go?
But this has to do with the rapture.
Is the rapture true?
I never thought about the end times too much.
But many here speak about this.
Is it important?

 

[Jim Parker]

The Purpose of the (literal) 1000 year reign is to fulfill The promises of Israel as a nation and restore her earthly glory among the nations under the rule of the son of David (Christ) (a perpetual promise). (2 Sam. 7:4-19) (Psalms 89:20-37) Study it, this is called the Davidic Covenant. (Psalms 89:34-35).

The popularity of the "literal" 1000 year reign is also a rather modern development which came along with the new doctrines of the "Rapture/dispensational" theology which arose in the 19th century.
The Church has had a very different view since it's beginning.
Prior to the 19th century, when John Darby et. al. made the dispensational teaching popular, with a very few exceptions, a literal understanding of the "1000 years" was rejected.
The number "1000" was understood to refer to a long time rather than a literal 1000 years.

Jesus declared himself to be ruler of everything in heaven and earth at Matthew 28:18. That means that He has been reigning from about 35 Ad until this minute.
1Co 15:25-26 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
Heb 10:12-13 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool.

And that He is personally present on the earth is established by the fact that the Church is His body which is present on the earth.
Col 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church,
Col 1:24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,
So, if the Church is in the world and Christ is in the Church, then Jesus is personally present in the world over which He has been given all authority right now.

My understanding is that such things as "the rapture" and "the 1000 year reign" are of very minimal importance. At Mathew 24 and 25 Jesus made an extensive statement that "the times and the seasons" are not our concern but what we need to focus on being ready for His return so that we may hear Jesus say, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (v 34) and not "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (v 41)

To me, the whole rapture, 1000 year reign, who, what , when, and where (according to the preacher's beautifully prepared power point presentation) is a distraction which tends to entice Christians to give more importance to things which are not our business rather than to things that ARE our business which is doing the good works "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus ... which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." (Eph 2:10) and letting our "...light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven." (Mat 5:16)

When Jesus comes, He is not going to judge according to whether we knew when the "rapture" was going to happen or when the "1000 year reign" would begin>

He won't judge mankind based on what we know.
He will judge all of mankind based on what we did or did not do.
(Mat 25:31-46; Jhn 3:36; 5:28-29; 8:51; Ro 6:2-10; 8:12-14; 2Cor 5:10; 1 Pet 1:17; 1 John 2:17; Rev 20:12-13; 22:12-14)

I suggest that we devote our time to doing Jesus' will rather than spending our time studying the innovative theology of John Darby et. al. lest we come before the Master and say, "Here's the talent you gave me. I buried it but didn't earn anything more with it."

but, as you know, that's just me

iakov the fool