[__ Science __ ] The Reckoning of Time

[Rockytopva]

I believe man's domain on earth will be approximately seven thousand years. I have often wondered where the reckoning of man's time on earth begins.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
2. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.
5. And the evening and the morning were the first day. - Genesis 1

I believe trillions of what we call years could have passed between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:5. Time was not measured until the earth was put in orbit around the sun. So what we would have is...

Pre-Day 1 - The creation of heaven and earth... An unknown space as time had yet to be measured.
Day 1 - Earth is placed in rotation around the sun. Beginning of the accounting of time
Day 2 - The creation of geography
Day 3 - The creation of the seeds of plant life
Day 4 - The creation of the moon and an atmosphere to let the light in
Day 5 - The creation of animal life
Day 6 - The creation of man for a seven thousand year domain
Day 7 - The day of rest

After seven thousand years it will all end along with the accounting of time...

And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: - Revelation 10:5-6

As E=mc2 we can divide and conclude that mass (m) = plasma (E/c2) and that it must needs for the universe to return to plasma energy where God will plan other things to do with it.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness. - 2 Peter 3:10-11

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. - Revelation 21:1

 

[Barbarian]

I believe man's domain on earth will be approximately seven thousand years. I have often wondered where the reckoning of man's time on earth begins.

Göbekli Tepe is a bit over 11,000 years old. So humans have been building complex structures for much longer than 7,000 years.

 

[miamited]

Time was not measured until the earth was put in orbit around the sun. So what we would have is...

Healthy new year Rockytopva

I would disagree with that statement. Time would have begun, as far as the measurement of days, at the moment that the earth was created, if it was created spinning on its axis. Years would not have been measurable until the sun came to exist 4 days later.

We still define the length of a day on any planetary body in our entire solar system by the time it takes each one to rotate one full rotation upon its axis. We still measure days using that fact! And the length of their years as the time it takes each one to orbit the sun. That fact still measures and describes each of those lengths of time.

Why don't believers understand that God created the earth to be a home for man? That it didn't take God billions or trillions of years to do that. It did, according to His testimony, take Him six days to build this entire realm in which we live. From the smallest particle of the earth to the farthest star in the reaches of the universe. Why won't believers believe God's testimony concerning this? God didn't write His testimony to us to only be understood by great university-trained minds. He gave us a fairly clear and concise description of how He created all that exists in our realm. But we, with that depraved mind that He has turned us over to, according to Paul's letter to the Roman believers refuse to believe God's testimony. Claiming that we just can't understand it. Why? It isn't a difficult claim to understand and is written fairly simply with clues to tell us that the explanation that He has given us is really just as miraculous and unbelievable as we want to make it to be.

He closed out each day with the claim that it contained an evening and a morning. Each day!!!! An evening and a morning. He explains that the earth was the first created heavenly body in this realm of His creating. Clearly telling us that the sun and moon and stars weren't created until 4 days after the earth came to be. That's God's testimony to us. Why do we refuse to believe it with some claim that God wrote it in some way that we can't understand because these clues about the time it took just aren't to be believed. PEOPLE!!!! It's God's testimony to us!! God has told us how quickly He created all that exists in this realm. God's testimony clearly shows that the magnum opus of His 6 days of work was to stoop down and create man out of the dust of the earth and set him to live upon the earth which He had merely six rotations of the earth before, created. And then began an existence in which God has worked with and through man to raise up a people out of the earth that will one day be His harvest to live eternally with Him because of their faithfulness and trust in Him. That's what God is doing!! That is exactly what the Scriptures portray to us in all of their telling.

God created this realm in which we live. God created it all to be a place for man to live. He then worked through the hands of men to bring about the only acceptable sacrifice for sin that we can, if we choose to turn back to believe and trust in God, be saved from the day of His wrath upon all of those who haven't believed and trusted in God. And His testimony is that He created this realm for man to live in where He would work to raise up a faithful following of mankind to be with Him for eternity, in six days. Days! A mere rotation of the planet upon its axis.

Who are you going to believe? God... or man? God's testimony concerning the wisdom of man is that He will confound our wisdom. I would say that He's done a pretty good job at that when we don't want to believe His testimony to us because man's testimony tells us that the impossible things that God did just couldn't have been.

 

[miamited]

Hi Barbarian

Göbekli Tepe is a bit over 11,000 years old. So humans have been building complex structures for much longer than 7,000 years.

Yes Barbarian, and the only way you can prove that is by studying the created rather than the Creator. The Scriptures warn us against doing that.

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “With raised hand I have sworn an oath to the LORD, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth,
Do you not know? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom.

God's testimony is that He created all that is. By His will all things were created and have their being. And it didn't take God millions or billions or trillions of years to do it. It took Him six days, according to His testimony to us.

But when man uses what was created to explain and understand what exists, then we get lost in our own hollow and deceptive philosophy.

 

[Whatever]

Why won't believers believe God's testimony concerning this?

Because we always fall for what "experts" say.
"The covid vaccine is safe and effective."
"We are entering an ice age."
"We are in a global warming catastrophe."
"Smoking isn't bad for you."
"Everything that exists sprang up from nothing"

 

[Barbarian]

Göbekli Tepe is a bit over 11,000 years old. So humans have been building complex structures for much longer than 7,000 years.

Yes @Barbarian, and the only way you can prove that is by studying the created rather than the Creator.

The Creator didn't say how long humans have been building structures. And the evidence is very solid.

The Scriptures warn us against doing that.

"They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen."

This is about idolatry, not a warning to ignore the evidence of God's Creation. Indeed, Scripture tells us:

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.

 

[Barbarian]

Because we always fall for what "experts" say.
"The covid vaccine is safe and effective."

Turns out it is. Would you like to see the data?

"We are entering an ice age."

A popular magazine is not "experts." Even in the 1970s, most climatologists were predicting a warming world. Would you like to see the data?

"We are in a global warming catastrophe."

Lots of catastrophes, and they're increasing. It's becoming impossible to get insurance for properties on the Gulf Coast, as insurance companies can no longer afford to pay off the claims from the increasing number of disasters:

Coastal properties at risk of becoming uninsurable – report

Continued heightened storm activity scaring off carriers

www.insurancebusinessmag.com

"Smoking isn't bad for you."

That's what tobacco companies said. Did you really think they were the "experts?" Seriously?

"Everything that exists sprang up from nothing"

That's what creation ex nihilo is. But it's not something scientists said. The Big Bang theory, for example (proposed by a Christian minister, and opposed by an atheist, because it suggested a moment of creation) says that everything expanded from a singularity. The theory didn't say how the singularity came to exist; no data for that.

You seem to have been told a lot of fake stories. Would you like to explore some of this in detail?

 

[Rockytopva]

Göbekli Tepe is a bit over 11,000 years old. So humans have been building complex structures for much longer than 7,000 years.


The Creator didn't say how long humans have been building structures. And the evidence is very solid.

"They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen."

This is about idolatry, not a warning to ignore the evidence of God's Creation. Indeed, Scripture tells us:

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.

Göbekli Tepe may have been built by Noah himself and all the dating on the object in error.

 

[Barbarian]

Göbekli Tepe may have been built by Noah himself

It's a city. The massive stones would have required more people than were aboard the Ark. Plus it was built thousands of years after the great flooding that submerged that area.

and all the dating on the object in error.

Comes down to evidence. And that shows it's much older than 7,000 years. Given that God doesn't give us a date for the Flood, we have personal interpretation of scripture vs. hard evidence. Not much of a choice, is it?

 

[Rockytopva]

It's a city. The massive stones would have required more people than were aboard the Ark. Plus it was built thousands of years after the great flooding that submerged that area.

Comes down to evidence. And that shows it's much older than 7,000 years. Given that God doesn't give us a date for the Flood, we have personal interpretation of scripture vs. hard evidence. Not much of a choice, is it?

And, offended by the know-it-all, what God would say... Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding! - Job 38:4

 

[Barbarian]

And, offended by the know-it-all, what God would say... Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth?

Since He left evidence to show us about these things, He would be offended if we didn't pay attention to the message.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.

Those who deny the evidence He left for us to see, are inexcusable.

 

[miamited]

Hi Barbarian

Look, I understand. I used to believe as you do. I was raised in a school system that pretty much taught that everything evolved over trillions of years. Multiple trillions. And if we believe the distance of the stars we are seeing from the Webb scope, and we define this passage of time by how fast light travels, scientists are just going to keep on adding more and more and more trillions of years to the story. Trust me! I get it!!!

The Creator didn't say how long humans have been building structures. And the evidence is very solid.

But it's not correct making that claim to explain your position on why you don't want to believe the simple account that God, the Creator of it all, has given you. And He doesn't want you to have to be so terribly, terribly 'smart' to figure it out. He knew who He was writing to. And He knew how to convey what He wanted to say in a manner that He fully knows that you -- from Adam to whoever the last man standing happens to be -- could simply understand as His testimony of what He has done that you have life and live upon the earth that He created in a mere span of time that He has defined in ways that He knows you can understand.

God. The Almighty, Omnipotent Creator of all that is. Everything that exists was created by Him with merely the command that it exist. That's what God's testimony to us is. That He creates for His good pleasure everything that has ever existed. The realm in which the angels of God exist, and their life, was created by God!!! The realm in which we live was likewise created by God and He has written us a plain and clear and reasonably concise account of how and when it all came to have its existence.

Yes, God has told us how much time it took Him to create this realm, but we have no idea when God created the angelic realm. But this realm? This universe of stars and galaxies of mass that we can't even begin to comprehend was all created by a loving God who has told you all that you need to know about Him and His power and His glory and His majesty. God has done that for us!

Then He caused to be written an account of generations that we can look back upon even today and know that what God did would have been about 6,000 years ago that He made Adam. He has given us a reasonably accurate account of the generations of years that have passed before us, from the day that He created Adam. His testimony to us teaches us that in its most simple and basic understanding. And I believe that the Majestic and Glorious God that created all that is because He loves us and it is His good pleasure to create, did command the earth to exist. And that it was the first of all that we see in the universe. Do you deny that the account clearly does teach that the earth existed before the sun. Do you believe that? Do you agree that the account clearly teaches that plants were made before the sun.

Friends, if it were trillions of years those plants would have been long dead. But if it was only the roughly 24 hour day that we know as the length of a day since at least the beginning of mankind, then it was just a day that the plants were without sunlight to cause them to grow. God propagated the earth with all plant life and then in just a few hours created the sun that they could begin to photosynthesize. The atmosphere was already created. But He had it all established and operating by the laws that cause the universe to run and then He made our first kind. Adam. A man who walked as you and I walk. Who had a woman by his side as a helpmate for him. And that man sinned along with his wife.

But God created it all in six days and then set Adam upon the earth to begin an existence where we could understand who our God who created us really is. His testimony shows us how much praise we should be returning to Him by the beauty of the heavens. The heavens declare the glory of God and His power and majesty. And He has written us a true testimony of all that He has done that we might have life.

Oh friends, the glory and power of God is beyond our comprehending, but He has given us a true testimony of all that He has done and is doing and will one day bring this realm to an end. The heavens, all those stars out there, are going to be rolled back like a scroll and God is going to mete out His justice and righteousness against all that He has created. Us -- the angels -- the Scriptures end with an account that God is going to judge all sin and then there will be eternal life with Him for those who love and trust and praise Him. That's what God's testimony to us says.

In the beginning God created the earth. He created for a purpose to be home to a being that He was going to create that He called man. And we now live in days that are reserved for God's purpose to be worked out. Men and women of every tribe and tongue and nation will one day be judged and those who are found trusting in Him and living as He asks us to live will be saved to an eternal life with Him. Those are those whose robes have been washed in the blood of His Son. Those whose dark stain of sin has been washed away by that blood. That's what God is doing in this realm that He created for His good pleasure and has written His plain testimony to us of how He did it.

That's what creation ex nihilo is. But it's not something scientists said.

Sheesh! Talk about stating the obvious. I don't think I've ever seen a better statement to explain why we are having this discussion. The question is still... who will one believe?

Have a wonderful and blessed new year. Praise God.

 

[miamited]

God's testimony to us says this about the existence of all that is:

“You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.” God doesn't have to build up a planet from some sort of dusty existence trillion +++++ years ago. He merely wills it to be and it comes to exist.

 

[miamited]

Because we always fall for what "experts" say.
"The covid vaccine is safe and effective."
"We are entering an ice age."
"We are in a global warming catastrophe."
"Smoking isn't bad for you."
"Everything that exists sprang up from nothing"

Hey Whatever

Agreed that's what happens to most of us. But some of us, when it comes to the testimony of the expert witness who has made Himself known to us as our God, believe Him over any earthly 'experts' on such things for which they have not a shred of eyewitness testimony to refute. I'm one of them.

 

[Rockytopva]

I built this timeline in the long ago.... Estimated dates....

4300 BC - Creation of Adam
2640 BC - The Great Flood
2060 AD - Christ’s coming
3100 AD - End of millennial and destruction of planet earth

I have man on this planet 7,400 years, and would put the accuracy of these dates within 400 years....

Taking the timeline of the church in parallel with the generations of Adam there was a severe famine during the time Noah was born. I would imagine a time of famine during the time of the Black Horseman, which days I believe we now live in....

As far as Isaac Newton’s 2060AD quote he said....

“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

So please use the 2060AD quote as a close estimation and not an exact date.

 

[JustEnjoyLife]

IMHO
Genesis 1:3-5 – The establishment of day and night: “And God said, ‘Let there be light,’ and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light ‘day,’ and the darkness he called ‘night.’ And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.”
Here, God establishes the cycle of day and night, marking the passage of time and defining the natural rhythm of creation.
Time is a gift from God, a framework through which humanity experiences life, love, and ultimately eternity. For believers, time holds a dual purpose—to live for Christ in this present age and to look forward to the culmination of time when we will be united with Him forever. Understanding the ending of time, particularly as it relates to those who have fallen asleep in Christ, brings clarity, hope, and assurance.
Matthew 6:25-34 – Jesus teaches not to worry about our needs:“Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes?… But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.” (Matthew 6:25, 33)

 

[miamited]

Hi Rockytopva

I built this timeline in the long ago.... Estimated dates....

4300 BC - Creation of Adam
2640 BC - The Great Flood
2060 AD - Christ’s coming
3100 AD - End of millennial and destruction of planet earth

I have man on this planet 7,400 years, and would put the accuracy of these dates within 400 years....

Taking the timeline of the church in parallel with the generations of Adam there was a severe famine during the time Noah was born. I would imagine a time of famine during the time of the Black Horseman, which days I believe we now live in....

As far as Isaac Newton’s 2060AD quote he said....

“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

So please use the 2060AD quote as a close estimation and not an exact date.

I agree with all of that. I just don't agree that there was some existence for the earth and the universe before God made man (accepting of course the 6 days prior). It's literally what He made it all for. God built a realm of creation that would sustain man and He flung the stars throughout the universe for the very purpose of declaring to us His majesty and power and glory and wisdom and love for us. Even the stars of the universe, according to God, were made for man that he might tell seasons and times. God created the sun that we might have light and warmth upon the earth to continue the life of the creation that He made for us to live in. He also created the sun that we might account years. Then He wrote out His accounting of how all those years passed from Adam until Noah,... until Abraham..., until Jesus. Now we live in the days of His patience as He waits for the first fruits. The harvest of the righteous who have chosen to live as He has asked all of us to live.

He is God and there is no other. He created and He did that just by willing things to exist. That's what His testimony tells us in Revelation 4:11. And He's going to do it again and we will all stand in awe as the earth and the universe just pop into existence and He ushers those who are faithful to Him into an eternal existence with Him on the new earth. Where there will be no more tears or suffering of any kind. We will be satisfied with the life that God gives us and not be chasing ourselves around the globe trying to live the life that man has fashioned for us. That seems to be the clear teaching of God's testimony to us.

“A man planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place. At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard."

The harvest is coming. Be ready. And after the harvest God is going to make all things new again and put those of His harvest to live there. It's not going to take Him billions/trillions of years to create all things new anymore than it did the first time.

 

[Barbarian]

Look, I understand. I used to believe as you do. I was raised in a school system that pretty much taught that everything evolved over trillions of years. Multiple trillions.

Evidence of God's creation says billions.

But it's not correct making that claim to explain your position on why you don't want to believe the simple account that God, the Creator of it all, has given you.

I do believe it. I just don't believe some of the interpretations men have put on it.

And He doesn't want you to have to be so terribly, terribly 'smart' to figure it out.

Right. He doesn't care if any of us approve of the way He did it. That's not how one's salvation is determined.

Sheesh! Talk about stating the obvious. I don't think I've ever seen a better statement to explain why we are having this discussion. The question is still... who will one believe?

I accept it God's way. He left all that evidence for us so we would understand. It's not that YE creationists aren't saved; they are no less Christian than any other. It just doesn't matter to God. If interpreting the "days" of Genesis as literal 24 hour days brings you closer to Him, then that's fine. Thing is, if we make any particular human interpretation of the Creation account into a mandatory doctrine, we've missed the message.

 

[miamited]

Evidence of God's creation says billions.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I think your statement should be that the evidence from the creation...

And that's exactly what Paul wrote to us in that passage of Colossians that I posted previously. We try to understand by looking at what has been created rather than trying to understand things by looking at the Creator. The universe was made as it needed to be made to fulfill God's purpose for its creation. Man looks at it and studies it and comes up with all sorts of ideas as to 'how' it was made. And that's exactly why believers are instructed to gain their understanding from the Creator rather than the created.

Man is ignorant of the power and majesty of God. Man is going to come up with all sorts of answers by studying what has been created. But God's word tells us not to do that.

Just as you deny the seemingly clear account of the flood that it covered the whole earth and was the cause of the death of every living thing that moves about the ground. You're looking at the created and not trusting what the Creator has told you.

Just as the sun standing still in the sky, we look at the universe and how it all works and spins and moves and we realize, by looking at what was created, that such an event is impossible. But God's word says that He did it. If we look to the Creator for our answers and not the created, then I believe we can know the truth.

 

[miamited]

Thing is, if we make any particular human interpretation of the Creation account into a mandatory doctrine, we've missed the message.

Your opinion is so noted. But for the record, I'm not using any particular human interpretation. I'm using the very words that the one who created it all has told me is the truth of the matter.