The religion of Atheism.

[platos_cave]

I cannot engage in any further dialogue until you guys come to a common consensus with regards to what Atheists believes and what they don't believe. I insist Atheism is the simple faith and belief that there is no theistic G-d. This differs from agnosticism, which says, "I don't know, but science may, one day..."

Well you insist wrong. Learn your terms.

Atheism is the disbelief in God. A disbelief is the refusal or inability to believe in something. This is the most concise definition that applies to all atheists. Atheism is the highest general category referring to the antithesis of theism, the highest general category of belief in God.

What atheists believe is varied, just like what theists believe is varied. Your objection is like an atheist saying "I cannot engage in any further dialogue until you guys come to a common consensus with regards to what theists believe and what they don't believe"

Since atheism refers to one concept, god, you can't make any other assumptions aside from the "disbelief". You may insist on whatever you like, but it's a mere fabrication of reality. Some atheists may positively affirm the non-existence of God, but there are always going to be exceptions to the rule.

Your definition of agnosticism is silly and irrelevant. Agnosticism is not mutually exclusive from theism or atheism, since it refers to the question of knowledge and whether or not it is possible to know if God exists or not.

 

[The Bible Thumper]

[quote="The Bible Thumper":2ptrizmy]I insist Atheism is the simple faith and belief that there is no theistic G-d.

You insist wrong. Some atheists may positively affirm the non-existence of God...
[/quote:2ptrizmy]
...And around and around we go...

 

[The Bible Thumper]

[quote="platos_cave":uxrqo10i][quote="The Bible Thumper":uxrqo10i]I insist Atheism is the simple faith and belief that there is no theistic G-d.

You insist wrong. Some atheists may positively affirm the non-existence of God...
[/quote:uxrqo10i]
...And around and around we go...[/quote:uxrqo10i]

I'm posting this again in the likely event you're either unable or unwilling to read the whole thing. Reading the whole thing means reading the first post, the reply and then the last post...

 

[platos_cave]

[quote="platos_cave":z52eggl2][quote="The Bible Thumper":z52eggl2]I insist Atheism is the simple faith and belief that there is no theistic G-d.

You insist wrong. Some atheists may positively affirm the non-existence of God...
[/quote:z52eggl2]
...And around and around we go...[/quote:z52eggl2]

Yes, because my statements are circular...wow. Do you even read what I write?

Some theists may believe in multiple Gods, some theists may believe in a God who doesn't care about them, some theists may believe in Allah or Yahweh or whatever.

What does this mean? That theism is a meaningless term? No, it means it's the highest general category of belief in God, whereas atheism is the highest general category of disbelief in God.

Some atheists are Secular Humanists, or Buddhists, or Objectivists, or Eudaimonists...what's so hard about this?

 

[ProphetMark]

I thought I'd look the words up in the dictionary to make absolutely sure.
Atheist: a person who does not believe in God.
Agnostic: (a person) believing that nothing can be known about the existence of God.

 

[Free]

Atheism is the disbelief in God. A disbelief is the refusal or inability to believe in something. This is the most concise definition that applies to all atheists.

A-theism: not God. Atheism is a negation of belief in God.

Some atheists may positively affirm the non-existence of God, but there are always going to be exceptions to the rule.

Like what exceptions? If some do not positively affirm the non-existence of God, then they are not negating the existence of God, which means they are not atheists. To say that one is an atheist is to affirm, technically and historically speaking, that God does not exist. A supposed lack of evidence for God doesn't lead to atheism but agnosticism.

 

[platos_cave]

A-theism: not God. Atheism is a negation of belief in God.

What? That doesn't make any sense, Free. Where are you getting your terms?

 

[Free]

What? That doesn't make any sense, Free. Where are you getting your terms?

What doesn't make sense? Atheism comes from the Greek word atheos meaning "godless"; a+theism means "not God", the negation of God or devoid of belief in God, does it not? Asymmetrical means "not symmetrical"; asexual and amoral mean..., etc.

Anyway, I don't know if I had a point or not with stating that. :-?

Regardless, unless you have some specific examples I haven't considered, atheism, IMO, is always a positive affirmation of the non-existence of God. Anything else is agnosticism.

 

[platos_cave]

What doesn't make sense? Atheism comes from the Greek word atheos meaning "godless"; a+theism means "not God", the negation of God or devoid of belief in God, does it not? Asymmetrical means "not symmetrical"; asexual and amoral mean..., etc.

We can trace the etymology, but that's entirely irrelevant since we can look at a lot of Old English words as well and find that they have different meanings to their current English words.

An ism is a belief, Free. Theism means "belief in God". a-theism means "no belief in God".

Regardless, unless you have some specific examples I haven't considered, atheism, IMO, is always a positive affirmation of the non-existence of God. Anything else is agnosticism.

Specific examples? You're just redefining a term to suit your personal opinion.
Atheism is defined, in most current dictionaries as the disbelief in the existence of a God.

 

[The Bible Thumper]

Regardless, unless you have some specific examples I haven't considered, atheism, IMO, is always a positive affirmation of the non-existence of God. Anything else is agnosticism.

Free, I have been trying to express this in one form or another and have come to the onclusion that it may not be possible for Platos_cave to come to the realization of this fact.

 

[VaultZero4Me]

Regardless, unless you have some specific examples I haven't considered, atheism, IMO, is always a positive affirmation of the non-existence of God. Anything else is agnosticism.

Free, I have been trying to express this in one form or another and have come to the onclusion that it may not be possible for Platos_cave to come to the realization of this fact.

Again agnosticism is entirely different than just not theist or atheist. Its not some middle ground, though it is loosely used in that way. Study the term agnostic, or review the posts where this is covered in detail.

They do no believe the question has a valid yes or no because god, God, or gods would be unknowable.

What is this need to misuse the word religion and define atheism as religious? Isn't that just dilluting words?

 

[Gabe]

What is this need to misuse the word religion and define atheism as religious? Isn't that just dilluting words?

Its because some Atheists are anti-religion and if someone could prove that Atheism is also a religion then that would make them all hypocrites. I do not regard Atheism as a religion and find the idea quite amusing. I do not believe in the Hindu gods and that faith has been around a lot longer than Christianity and more than 800 million people believe it to be truth, its not my unbelief of them that makes me religious but my belief in Christ. my unbelief in the gods of every other faith does not qualify a new religion or religions.

 

[Paidion]

If someone shouts, "I'm an Atheist." What he's saying is, "I have faith that there is no G-d." In other words, he's saying he doesn't believe, and is Atheist.
If someone shouts, "I disbelieve in G-d." What he is saying is, "I don't have faith that there is a G-d." In other words, he not saying he doesn't believe, but that he doesn't not believe. Such a soul is agnostic.

Actually, Thumper, you have it backwards. To say you disbelieve would indicate that you are an atheist as you define "atheist". To say you don't believe, would be an agnostic as you define "agnostic".

In any case, if you go to any atheist site on the internet, you will find that none of the atheists claim to believe that there is no God. Rather they claim that they do not hold to the belief that there is, in fact, a God.

 

[Gabe]

I can understand why some people may confuse or want to confuse Atheism with religion. You need only to look at the actions or listen to the many distorted and biased pictures painted of the religious by dogmatic Atheists to see the parallel's between 'religious extremists' and Atheist fundementals: they are both mad and consumed with hate. But similarities in some Atheists behaviour to the stereotypical image many of them like to paint of the religious, does not mean that they are indeed one in the same.

 

[Free]

What doesn't make sense? Atheism comes from the Greek word atheos meaning "godless"; a+theism means "not God", the negation of God or devoid of belief in God, does it not? Asymmetrical means "not symmetrical"; asexual and amoral mean..., etc.

We can trace the etymology, but that's entirely irrelevant since we can look at a lot of Old l meaning.
English words as well and find that they have different meanings to their current English words.

An ism is a belief, Free. Theism means "belief in God". a-theism means "no belief in God".

Regardless of how you want to define it, atheism is always a positive affirmation of the non-existence of God.

Regardless, unless you have some specific examples I haven't considered, atheism, IMO, is always a positive affirmation of the non-existence of God. Anything else is agnosticism.

Specific examples? You're just redefining a term to suit your personal opinion.
Atheism is defined, in most current dictionaries as the disbelief in the existence of a God.

But you've just stated that the modern meaning of atheism is changed. So who are the ones redefining terms?

Regardless, I wasn't clear enough. By specific examples I was referring to your previous comment that "there are always going to be exceptions to the rule." I am interested in what exceptions.

 

[The Bible Thumper]

What is this need to misuse the word religion and define atheism as religious? Isn't that just dilluting words?

its because some Atheists are anti-religion and if someone could prove that Atheism is also a religion then that would make them all hypocrites. i do not regard Atheism as a religion and find the idea quite amusing. I do not believe in the Hindu gods and that faith has been around a lot longer than Christianity and more than 800 million people believe it to be truth, its not my unbelief of them that makes me religious but my belief in Christ. my unbelief in the gods of every other faith does not qualify a new religion or religions.

So you're going to go out of your way to make Atheism not a religion even if it means distorting the truth and the meaning behind the definition of Atheism. Either way, you're screwed: you're either a hypocrite by admitting Atheism as religious thinking, or you're a liar by claiming it not to be religious thinking.

 

[The Bible Thumper]

In any case, if you go to any atheist site on the internet, you will find that none of the atheists claim to believe that there is no God. Rather they claim that they do not hold to the belief that there is, in fact, a God.

Correct. That's because they're hypocrites. At one end of the spectrum, they worship Pope Richard Dawkins and claim the Atheist cloth, then when you illustrate their folly in doing so, they define Atheism as a form of agnosticism.
They are either hypocrites or very confused, going around and around and around in circles.

 

[Gabe]

[quote="Gabriel Ali":2ixtnppp]

What is this need to misuse the word religion and define atheism as religious? Isn't that just dilluting words?

its because some Atheists are anti-religion and if someone could prove that Atheism is also a religion then that would make them all hypocrites. i do not regard Atheism as a religion and find the idea quite amusing. I do not believe in the Hindu gods and that faith has been around a lot longer than Christianity and more than 800 million people believe it to be truth, its not my unbelief of them that makes me religious but my belief in Christ. my unbelief in the gods of every other faith does not qualify a new religion or religions.

So you're going to go out of your way to make Atheism not a religion even if it means distorting the truth and the meaning behind the definition of Atheism. Either way, you're screwed: you're either a hypocrite by admitting Atheism as religious thinking, or you're a liar by claiming it not to be religious thinking.[/quote:2ixtnppp]

....or maybe you're so full of hate that it doen't make a difference what i or anyone else says and your OP asking for others opinions was pointless?

I'm not distorting anything and i'm certainly not screwed. as i have stated, just because two things have similarities to one another does not make them one in the same

 

[platos_cave]

Regardless of how you want to define it, atheism is always a positive affirmation of the non-existence of God.

That's nice, I think I'll stick with reality and the common definition. You can go tilt at windmills.

But you've just stated that the modern meaning of atheism is changed. So who are the ones redefining terms?

Where did I state anything of the sort?

Regardless, I wasn't clear enough. By specific examples I was referring to your previous comment that "there are always going to be exceptions to the rule." I am interested in what exceptions.

I specifically stated that most atheists will define themselves as disbelievers. A disbelief being the refusal or inability to believe in a concept.

Some atheists will positively affirm the nonexistence of God, they would be the exception and minority, but they are still atheists. They are just a different kind of atheist (usually defined as strong or positive atheists).

 

[Paidion]

According to Wiktionary, there are two definions of Atheist. The first is the more common one, a person who lacks belief in gods. This is the definition of which we (unsuccesfuly) have been trying make Thumper aware.

The second one defines a person who believes that no deities exist. This second one would require faith. This second one would be a "religion" according to Thumper.

The following definitions have been extracted from Wiktionary:

atheist (plural atheists)

1. A person who does not believe that deities exist; one who lacks belief in gods.
2006, Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion, page 51:
-------Atheists do not have faith; and reason alone could not propel one to total conviction that anything definitely does not exist.

2. A person who believes that no deities exist; one who denies the existence of all gods.