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The religion of peace.... Islam?

Sleeker said:
In the Crusades, Christian committed atrocities. Does that make Christianity a violent religion, or those that twisted the Bible's words violent?

The difference between Jesus and Muhammad

Jesus and his disciples through the first three centuries turned the world upside down by simple proclamation, not by butchering with swords (or by threatening to butcher with swords) people who opposed their ministryâ€â€the warpath of Emperor Constantine in the fourth century and the Medieval Crusaders do not set the genetic code in the very origins of Christianity in the New Testament.

On the other hand, Muhammad is foundational to Islam, and he says that a martyr’s death in the cause of Allah (cause = war) guarantees heaven. The contrast between the two religions is stark.

For more information on the Christian Crusades and the Islamic Crusades see this article.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... usades.htm

Christ’s original way leads to life and the light; Muhammad’s original way leads to death and darkness.

Source and further reading:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... /jihad.htm

:)
 
I've had it with this bashing of Islams. My church had an invitation to the local Mosque today, and im positive that I will be the only one that will go. The invitation said let us rejoice in peace, reconsiliation, and justice. I look forward to promote Jesus's peace (as some of you know thats why im here) to others...because i respect others beilfes and only want them to folo peace aswell.


ill post here and tell you guys and gals how it went when i get back.
 
You're practicing quote mining. If read in context, those quotes do not show Islam to be violent.
 
y not peace? said:
I've had it with this bashing of Islams. My church had an invitation to the local Mosque today, and im positive that I will be the only one that will go. The invitation said let us rejoice in peace, reconsiliation, and justice. I look forward to promote Jesus's peace (as some of you know thats why im here) to others...because i respect others beilfes and only want them to folo peace aswell.


ill post here and tell you guys and gals how it went when i get back.
I do not believe that one should bash anyone, including Muslims, but I do believe that the Christians should warn Muslims that they are on their way to an eternal separation from God almighty if they don't become born of the Spirit through Jesus Christ.

If Christians do not baptize those of other nations in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, as well as teach them to observe all that Jesus taught, then Christians are being disobedient to the Lord of Lords, and King of Kings.
 
Sleeker said:
You're practicing quote mining. If read in context, those quotes do not show Islam to be violent.

In fact, we have the hadith (Muslim sources) and history to show that Muhammad practiced what he taught in the Quran.... KILL those who oppose Muhammad and Allah.

Also, so that you can start to understand who this man Muhammad was and how he killed and murdered his enemies, read these:

  • (1) Muhammad and the Rape of the Female Slaves -here-
    (2) Muhammad and the Murder of Abu Afak -here-
    (3) Muhammad and the Murder of Asma bint Marwan -here-
    (4) The Deception and Murder of Kab al-Ashraf -here-
    (5) Muhammad and the Death of Kinana -here-
    (6) Muhammad and the Death of the Uraynians -here-
    (7) Muhammad and the Killing of Apostates -here-
    (8) Muhammad and the Meccan Ten -here-
    (9) Muhammad and the Treaty of Hudaybiyya -here-
:o :o

How can you possibly dispute these? They use Islamic sources!

:o
 
y not peace? said:
I've had it with this bashing of Islams. My church had an invitation to the local Mosque today, and im positive that I will be the only one that will go. The invitation said let us rejoice in peace, reconsiliation, and justice. I look forward to promote Jesus's peace (as some of you know thats why im here) to others...because i respect others beilfes and only want them to folo peace aswell.

What you will learn (if not now.... certainly later) is that Islam allows you to lie, especially to "enemies". So I believe they will, initially, easily fool you as well into thinking that Islam is a religion of peace.

The Ultimate Goal of Islam
by James M. Arlandson

Islamic terrorism may eventually be defeated in its large manifestations, like the one we saw on 9/11, but built into earliest Islam is an ultimate goalâ€â€what is it, according to the Quran, the Hadith (Muhammad’s words and deeds outside of the Quran), and Muhammad’s life?

Osama bin Laden and Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian who beheads innocent workers in Iraq, are open about this goal, as we see in these fatwas, statements, and interviews before and after 9/11.

In bin Laden’s August 1996 fatwa declaring war against the US, he claims that Islamic revival is occurring around world, and especially around the Muslim world:

  • Under the present circumstances [of Zionist-Crusader aggressions], and under the banner of the blessed awakening which is sweeping the world in general and the Islamic world in particular, I meet with you today.
In March 1997 Peter Arnett interviews bin Laden, who says the goal of jihad is to exalt God’s word (the Quran) to the heights, in other words, until the message of his Holy Book goes around the world.

  • For [subordination to the Jews and occupation of Arabia] and other acts of aggression and injustice, we have declared jihad against the US, because in our religion it is our duty to make jihad so that God's word is the one exalted to the heights and so that we drive the Americans away from all Muslim countries.
In May 1998 Jonathan Miller, then a reporter with ABC News, now a consultant on terrorism for Los Angeles, interviews bin Laden, who believes that he is a servant of Allah and that his primary mission is to spread by fighting the religion of light.

  • I am one of the servants of Allah. We do our duty of fighting for the sake of the religion of Allah. It is also our duty to send a call to all the people of the world to enjoy this great light and to embrace Islam and experience the happiness in Islam. Our primary mission is nothing but the furthering of this religion. ...
In November 2001, after 9/11, bin Laden allows an interview with Hamid Mir, the editor of an Arabic-language journal. The terrorist pulls back a little from his wish to slaughter innocent people, though he has said in numerous other statements and interviews that he is justified in doing so. His mission is to spread the Quran:

Hamid Mir: Can it be said that you are against the American government, not the American people?

Osama: Yes! We are carrying on the mission of our Prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him). The mission is to spread the word of God, not to indulge [in] massacring people.

In December 2001 bin Laden records a video in which he and a sheikh extol the 9/11 attacks. He wants everyone to utter the first of the five pillars of Islam, a confession of faith that is the first step in accepting the "true religion," the one for which that bin Laden is fighting.

  • I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but Allah, and his prophet Muhammad.
In the same video bin Laden reports that after the attacks many converted to Islam, and many others were at least curious about true Islam, possibly converting to it.

  • Some of them said that in Holland, at one of the centers, the number of people who accepted Islam during the days that followed the operations were more than the people who accepted Islam in the last eleven years. I heard someone on Islamic radio who owns a school in America say: "We don’t have time to keep up with the demands of those who are asking about Islamic books to learn about Islam." This event made people think (about true Islam) which benefited Islam greatly.
On September 11, 2004, the three-year anniversary of 9/11, al-Zarqawi assumes that spreading Islam around the world is difficult, but that the holy warriors should not give up:

  • As for you, fighters who came from afar, by Allah, missions of da'wa [the propagation of Islam] have never been a road lined with roses and sweet basil; the price of da'wa missions is heavy, and the price of bringing principles to the land of reality is a lot of torn limbs and blood. The light of dawn shall not be lit in this darkness save by Jihad fighters and shahids.
Thus, in the words of these two visible terrorists the ultimate goal of Islam is to spread the message and ways of Allah around the world because Islam is the gift of God, the greatest seal and capstone of inferior Judaism and Christianity. How is this goal best manifested and carried out? In following the Quran and sharia (Islamic law), which expresses God’s will and ways in a pristine form.

Ultimately, violent and non-violent radicals want religious world domination.

Where do bin Laden and al-Zarqawi get this goal of spreading Islam around the world? Out of thin air? Why do not Evangelical Christians use violence and other extreme means to spread their message? After all, Christ said to his disciples to go into all the world and preach the gospel (Matt 28:18-20). What is the difference between the two religions in their outlook and methods of promulgation?

Read more:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... e_goal.htm

:-?
 
I would be able to refute those, yet I can't post to an Islamic site... :roll:
 
Quote:
Islam is a peaceful religion


Since when ?

since ever. I recently went to a interfaith community meeting. It was interesting to here the point of view from a Islamic preacher. He basically cleared things up on the terrorist thing by saying that in the Koran is says: he/she who take innocent life is no disgarded from the faith. The people of Islam condem terrorists and completely diagree with what they do.

BUT

Christians cannot call Islam unpeaceful, becuase Christians have such a bloody history ouselves. Never forget it.
 
As predicted, the Imam fooled you.

He can only quote a few verses which talk about tolerance of Christians and Jews in the Quran. However, what he did not reveal to you were scores of verses which show the exact opposite. Neither would he have told you about history and the reality of what Muhammad did.

Muhammad launches his own Crusades.

In the following verse, Muhammad uses the Arabic word qital (root is q-t-l), which means warring, fighting, or killing:

  • 9:29 Fight [q-t-l] those among the people of the Book [Christians] who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden and do not profess the true religion, till they pay the poll-tax out of hand and submissively. (Fakhry)
The two most interesting clauses in this violent verse are (1) People of the Book (Christians in this verse late in Muhammad’s life) are to be attacked if they do not profess the true religion: Islam. This leaves the door wide open for terrorists today to attack and fight Christians because they do not adhere to Islam; (2) Christians must pay a tax for the "privilege" of living under the "protection" of Islamâ€â€submissively or in humiliation.

Muhammad unjustly executes around 600 male Jews and enslaves the women and children.

After the Battle of the Trench in March 627 (named after a trench that the Muslims dug around parts of Medina) against a large coalition of Meccans and their allies, Muhammad imposed the ultimate penalty on the men in the Jewish clan, Qurayzah, his third and final Jewish rivals (he banished the Qaynuqa tribe in April 624 and the Nadir tribe in August 625). The Qurayzah tribe was supposed to remain neutral in the Battle, but they seem to have intrigued with the Meccans and to have been on the verge of attacking Muhammad from the rear. They were judged guilty by one of their Medinan Muslim allies, though Muhammad could have shown mercy, exiled them (as indeed they requested), or executed only a few.

The sentence: Death by decapitation for around 600 men (some Islamic sources say 900), and enslavement for the women and children (he took a beautiful Jewess as his own prize). Muhammad was wise enough to have six clans execute two Jews each in order to stop any blood-feuds. The rest of the executions were probably carried out by his fellow Emigrants from Mecca and lasted the whole night.

The prophet says the following in Sura 33:25-26 about the Battle of the Trench and his treatment of Qurayzah:

  • 33:25 God sent back the disbelievers along with their rageâ€â€they gained no benefitâ€â€and spared the believers from fighting. He is strong and mighty. 26 He brought those People of the Book [Qurayza] who supported them down from their strongholds and put terror into their hearts. Some of them you [believers] killed and some you took captive. 27 He passed on to you their land, their homes, their possessions, and a land where you had not set foot. God has power over everything. (Haleem)
Now this atrocity has been enshrined in the eternal word of Allahâ€â€and the Quran seems to celebrate it. But these questions must be answered: Is intriguing with the enemy equal to slaughtering 600 men and enslaving the women and children? Who decides? The Arab tribal chief with the most powerful army? Muhammad said around the time of his Hijrah in 622 the following:

  • 16:126 If you [people] have to respond to an attack, make your response proportionate, but it is better to be steadfast. (Haleem)
Any reasonable and fair-minded person would judge that Muhammad was not making his response (execution) proportionate to the breach of the agreement. The Qurayzah tribe never attacked the Muslims, and even if a few were to have done so, the punishment does not fit the crime. Therefore, Muhammad was being excessive and disproportionate because he used an irreversible penalty to express his human wrath.

Muhammad in his Quran promises sensuous Gardens for martyrs dying in a military holy war.

Throughout the Quran, Muhammad promises the men in his fledgling Muslim community that if they die fighting for Allah and for him, Allah will reward them with a "virgin-rich" Garden (Suras 44:51-56; 52:17-29; 55:46-78).

In the following Quranic passage, representing others (Suras 4:74, 9:111; 3:140-143), the Arabic word "jihad" (root is j-h-d) is the means or currency to trade in this life for the life to come in an economic bargain.

  • 61:10 You who believe, shall I show you a bargain that will save you from painful punishment? 11 Have faith in God and His Messenger and struggle [j-h-d] for His cause with your possessions and your personsâ€â€that is better for you, if only you knewâ€â€12 and He will forgive your sins, admit you into Gardens graced with flowing streams, into pleasant dwellings in the Gardens of Eternity. That is the supreme triumph. (Haleem)
These verses are found in the historical context of the Battle of Uhud (625), in which Muhammad lost 70 of his fighters. Thus, he must make the loss of life appear worth the sacrifice, so he frames their deaths in an economic bargain (note the word in bold print). If his jihadists trade in or sell their lives down here, they will be granted Islamic heavenâ€â€it is a done deal.

Muhammad aggressively attacks Meccan caravans.

A year or so after Muhammad’s Hijrah from Mecca to Medina in 622, he attacks Meccan caravans six times, and sent out a punitive expedition three-days away against an Arab tribe that stole some Medinan grazing camels (or cattle), totaling seven raids.

W. Montgomery Watt, a highly reputable Western Islamologist who writes in favor of Muhammad and whose two-volume history of early Islam (Muhammad at Mecca (1953) and Muhammad at Medina (1956)) has won wide acceptance, tells us why geography matters:

  • The chief point to notice is that the Muslims took the offensive. With one exception the seven expeditions were directed against Meccan caravans. The geographical situation lent itself to this. Caravans from Mecca to Syria had to pass between Medina and the coast. Even if they kept as close to the Red Sea as possible, they had to pass within about eighty miles of Medina, and, while at this distance from the enemy base, would be twice as far from their own base. (Muhammad at Medina, emphasis added, p. 2)
It must be emphatically stated that the Meccans never sent a force up to the doorstep of Medina at this timeâ€â€they did later on when they were fed up with Muhammad’s aggressions. It is true that the Meccans gathered forces to protect their caravans, but when Muhammad confronted them, they were many days’ journeys away from Medina, often more than eighty miles. (Medina and Mecca are around 200-250 miles from each other, taking seven to eleven days of travel by foot, horse, or camel.)

Muhammad assassinates poets and poetesses.

These two poets represent others in early Islam.

March 624: Uqba bin Abu Muayt

Uqba mocked Muhammad in Mecca and wrote derogatory verses about him. He was captured during the Battle of Badr, and Muhammad ordered him to be executed. "But who will look after my children, O Muhammad?" Uqba cried with anguish. "Hell," retorted the prophet coldly. Then the sword of one of his followers cut through Uqba’s neck.

March 624: Asma bint Marwan

Asma was a poetess who belonged to a tribe of Medinan pagans, and whose husband was named Yazid b. Zayd. She composed a poem blaming the Medinan pagans for obeying a stranger (Muhammad) and for not taking the initiative to attack him by surprise. When the prophet heard what she had said, he asked, "Who will rid me of Marwan’s daughter?" A member of her husband’s tribe volunteered and crept into her house that night. She had five children, and the youngest was sleeping at her breast. The assassin gently removed the child, drew his sword, and plunged it into her, killing her in her sleep.

The following morning, the assassin defied anyone to take revenge. No one took him up on his challenge, not even her husband. In fact, Islam became powerful among his tribe. Previously, some members who had kept their conversion secret now became Muslims openly, "because they saw the power of Islam," so conjectures an early Muslim source that reports the assassination.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course, Muslim apologists and others who have been fooled by the smooth-talking Imams assert that Christianity is filled with violence, citing the Roman Emperor Constantine and the Medieval Crusaders. However, to repeat, they are not foundational for Christianityâ€â€only Christ and the New Testament are. And Jesus and the New Testament authors never practiced or endorsed such violence.

On the other hand, Muhammad and his Quran are foundational for Islam, and violence fills his life and its pages.

Source

:o :o :o
 
no he did not talk about christian atrosities. I DID. I defense for all religions, becuase we are all part of God's Kingdom wheter Christian, Jew, Islam, etc. My point is simple, we all share the sins of the world. You cannot hate on another religion when your religion has such a bloody history as well.

and no he did not fool me, do you think I would give up following Jesus just becuase what some man said? No. I only went to this event to experience and learn about Islam and its ups and downs, which are very relevent to todays "terrorist" part of society.
 
Iraq, India, Afghanistan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Thailand, Russia, Syria, Chechnya, Algeria, Mauritania, Lebanon, Philippines, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Bangladesh, Somalia, Dagestan, UK (London)….. any Muslim here able to explain why other Muslims do this?

8/17/05 Iraq Hawija Six Iraqi recruits are pulled from a bus by Sunni radicals and shot to death execution-style.

8/17/05 Afghanistan Kandahar One person is killed, and eleven others injured by a Taliban bus bomb.

8/17/05 Bangladesh Dhaka The Jumatul Mujahedin take credit for hundreds of sychronized blasts that kill two, including a 40-year-old rickshaw puller. Over one-hundred others are injured.

8/17/05 Iraq Baghdad Jihadis murder over forty people in three separate car bombings that also leave about one-hundred injured. Most of the victims were simply waiting at a bus stop or seeking medical treatment at a hospital when they were targeted.

8/17/05 India Qazigund An Indian guard is killed, and nine other people are injured by a Mujahideen car bombing in a residential area.

8/15/05 Iraq Uwarige The mass grave of thirty people, including two women, is uncovered. The Fedayeen tortured the victims before executing them.

8/15/05 Iraq Dura 'Holy Warriors' kidnap a Christian woman and then cut off her head.

8/15/05 Chechnya Grozny Muslims target a restaurant with a car bomb, killing a woman and a 12-year-old boy.

8/14/05 Pakistan Sialkot Five family members lose their lives in an 'honor killing.'

8/14/05 Thailand Narathiwat In three separate attacks, Muslim gumen shoot two Buddhist men at point-blank range as they are drinking tea. They also shoot a 40-year-old woman by the side of the road and hack another woman with a machete while she is working her garden.

8/14/05 Chechnya Roshnichu Four investigators are killed by Islamic terrorists on their way to probe another murder that took place earlier in the day.

8/14/05 Iraq al-Mahawil An Islamic suidide bomber kills two civilians and injures five others.

8/13/05 Thailand Pattani A man and his 13-year-old son are critically wounded by Muslim gunmen.

8/13/05 India Shajroo Muslim militants attack a Hindu village in the middle of the night, killing five people in their homes, including three Hindu teenagers, and injuring at least nine others.

8/12/05 Iraq Nasaf Three children are among four civilians killed by a bomb planted by radical Muslims near a mosque.

8/12/05 India Kulhand The Hizb-ul-Mujahideen attack a village and shoot two teenage boys to death.

8/12/05 Afghanistan Kandahar A bomb explodes in a women's market, killing a young child.

TROP.jpg


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

:sad :sad
 
Looks to me like there are a lot of hell bound Muslims..................like all of them.
 
you talk about the religionofpeace has killed 2752. And what has America done to teh middle east in the name of God (as bush calls it). We have completely slaughtered an estimated 500,000 in Iraq and Afgahnistan in the past 6 years. I wont even bother counting since 1991.

Is that PEACE for you?

Y CANT WE JUST LEAVE THEM ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THAT WOULD BE PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THAT IS WHAT I WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
you talk about the religionofpeace has killed 2752. And what has America done to teh middle east in the name of God (as bush calls it). We have completely slaughtered an estimated 500,000 in Iraq and Afgahnistan in the past 6 years. I wont even bother counting since 1991.

I know that you would love for this to be true, but it is rubbish. Deep down inside you know this, but you hope to skim a few off the top to join your hatred brigade. It's a shame that people have to respond to this kind of rubbish to protect the few who don't know better. I'm personally tired of doing it. Shouldn't you be packing your bags for the Jane Fonda tour bus?
 
There will be no peace until the Prince of Peace returns.

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5


One should be more concerned over the salvation of those that death could overtake at any moment in this sin filled community, than to utter peace, peace, peace against their country. Christians should pray for their country and leaders, instead of criticizing the things that they do not know or understand.
 
There will be no peace until the Prince of Peace returns.


we can maintain peace as a religion. If you think that peace is not possible without Jesus being present then you are lost. Why do think his disciples wrote his works?
So we could follow in his peaceful footsteps.

I know that you would love for this to be true, but it is rubbish. Deep down inside you know this, but you hope to skim a few off the top to join your hatred brigade. It's a shame that people have to respond to this kind of rubbish to protect the few who don't know better. I'm personally tired of doing it. Shouldn't you be packing your bags for the Jane Fonda tour bus?

One: i know that it is not rubbish.
Two: How dare u say that i am hateful. That is the last thing i do.
Three: Its a shame that you dont do your research.
Four: Stop at the lame attepmts of mocking me.
 
y not peace? said:
There will be no peace until the Prince of Peace returns.


we can maintain peace as a religion. If you think that peace is not possible without Jesus being present then you are lost. Why do think his disciples wrote his works?
So we could follow in his peaceful footsteps.

[quote:2cb69]I know that you would love for this to be true, but it is rubbish. Deep down inside you know this, but you hope to skim a few off the top to join your hatred brigade. It's a shame that people have to respond to this kind of rubbish to protect the few who don't know better. I'm personally tired of doing it. Shouldn't you be packing your bags for the Jane Fonda tour bus?

One: i know that it is not rubbish.
Two: How dare u say that i am hateful. That is the last thing i do.
Three: Its a shame that you dont do your research.
Four: Stop at the lame attepmts of mocking me.[/quote:2cb69]
If you take the Bible out of context as you take these posts out of context, you are going to have plenty of problems. Comment on my entire post, not just a portion that you can twist to suit your aim.

There will be no peace until the Prince of Peace returns.

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-5

One should be more concerned over the salvation of those that death could overtake at any moment in this sin filled community, than to utter peace, peace, peace against their country. Christians should pray for their country and leaders, instead of criticizing the things that they do not know or understand.
 
your quote is interesting. I like it, but it sort of has to with what we are talking about.


you gotta understand that I as a follower of Jesus can only follow peace. If my government refuses to folo this element of life, then i can only object to it.
 
Gary

Hey Gary ,


I do not blame the muslims in these terrorist attacks because if you really look into it as i did you will see that even muslims are getting killed in these terrorist attacks !


so how can a muslim kill a muslim ?

this doesnt make sense .


according to my simple knowledge muslims are not allowed to kill muslims and if they do they are not muslim so this in my opinion in an explanation to the terrorist thing .


those terrorist cannot be muslims , Maybe by name but not in their doings
 
These attacks were done in the name of Allah. Whether or not they are true muslims does not change the fact that they did this in the name of Allah, the muslim God.
 
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