The religion of peace.... Islam?

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bibleberean said:
Yeshua,

If the moderators see a violation of the rules here we will deal with it.

Gary has not broken any rules that I can see... 8-)
I have never said that he has not that I am aware of.
What I meant was this that when the student wrote he was here to discuss he really could had fooled me because all he has been doing is promoting Islam by either lying or distorting.
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA our KING and redeemer soon coming back allelu-yah :)
 
YESHUA said:
bibleberean said:
Yeshua,

If the moderators see a violation of the rules here we will deal with it.

Gary has not broken any rules that I can see... 8-)
I have never said that he has not that I am aware of.
What I meant was this that when the student wrote he was here to discuss he really could had fooled me because all he has been doing is promoting Islam by either lying or distorting.
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA our KING and redeemer soon coming back allelu-yah :)

Okay, sorry I misunderstood you... :oops:

Thanks,

Robert
 
bibleberean said:
YESHUA said:
bibleberean said:
Yeshua,

If the moderators see a violation of the rules here we will deal with it.

Gary has not broken any rules that I can see... 8-)
I have never said that he has not that I am aware of.
What I meant was this that when the student wrote he was here to discuss he really could had fooled me because all he has been doing is promoting Islam by either lying or distorting.
Shalom and love in the name of YESHUA our KING and redeemer soon coming back allelu-yah :)

Okay, sorry I misunderstood you... :oops:

Thanks,

Robert
It's ok :lol:
 
Iraq, India, Afghanistan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Thailand, Russia, Syria, Chechnya, Algeria, Mauritania, Lebanon, Philippines, Nigeria, Somalia, Dagestan, UK (London)….. any Muslim here able to explain why other Muslims do this?

7/13/05 Iraq Jalawlah A suicide bomber kills two others inside a Sunni mosque.

7/13/05 Iraq Baghdad Seven children were among the twenty-four people slaughtered by an Islamic suicide car bomber on a busy road. Children were also among those injured.

7/12/05 Israel Netanya The terror group, Islamic Jihad, takes credit for a suicide bombing, in which a bomber kills four Jews crossing the street in front of a mall. All of the victims were female, two were teenage girls. About seventy others were injured.

7/12/05 Iraq Kirkuk Sunnis detonate a car bomb in an industrial district, killing three civilians and injuring fifteen more.

7/11/05 Somalia Mogadishu al-Qaeda assassinates a Somali peace activist outside his home.

7/10/05 Iraq Baghdad A al-Qaeda suicide bomber blows himself to Allah, taking twenty-five innocents with him. Nearly fifty others are injured.

7/10/05 Iraq Syrian Border Two Islamic suicide bombers kill seven customs agents.

7/10/05 Iraq Kirkuk Suicidal Sunni kills four civilians on a highway, near a hospital. Fifteen are injured in the blast.

7/9/05 Algeria Tezi Ozo A group of thirty Islamists set-up a fake roadblock, then slaughter four Algerians that are fooled into stopping.

7/9/05 Pakistan Karachi A Shia cleric is gunned down on a street by Pakistani Sunnis.

7/9/05 Iraq Baghdad A family of eight Shia is grusomely murdered by Sunni radicals as they sleep in their home.

7/8/05 India Rajouri Four Indian soldiers are ambushed and killed by Islamic militants.

7/7/05 UK London Islamic terrorists massacre more than fifty commuters on three separate subway trains and a double-decker bus on the street with four suicide bombs. Over seven-hundred people are injured.

7/7/05 Iraq Mosul Five people at a market are killed when Sunni terrorists lob more than a dozen mortar rounds into the square.

7/7/05 Afghanistan Helmand Ten Afghan police officers are captured by the Taliban and senselessly beheaded.

7/7/05 Iraq Baghdad al-Qaeda Organization for Holy War pronounces "Allah's judgment" and kills a kidnapped Egyptian diplomat on video.

7/6/05 Algeria Skikda Islamic fundamentalists bomb a convoy, killing one Algerian solider and injuring thirteen others.

7/6/05 Thailand Narathiwat Muslims on motorcycles shoot a 52-year-old in the neck and hand as he is riding to market.

7/6/05 Iraq Jbeila Thirteen civilians are slaughtered in twin suicide bombings by Muslim extremists. About thirty others are injured.

7/6/05 India Budgam The Mujahideen kidnap a student from his classrom and subsequently shoot him to death.

7/5/05 Dagestan Makhachkala 2 0 A prominent politician is assassinated, along with his uncle, by suspected Islamists as they sit in their car at a light.

7/5/05 India Pulwama In two separate home invasions, the Mujahideen shoot two people to death and critically injure the wife of one.

7/5/05 Thailand Pattani A 44-year-old security force member is abducted and beheaded by Islamists.

7/5/05 Iraq Baghdad Islamic extremists shoot three barbers to death for shaving beards.

7/4/05 Iraq Baghdad Sunni insurgents kill a painting contractor, and kidnap, torture and behead another man.

7/4/05 India Wagbal Karhama A youth is abducted and hanged by the Mujahideen.

7/4/05 Iraq Fallujah Three civilians are blown to bits, and nine others badly injured by a Fedayeen suicide bombing on a busy road.

7/4/05 Afghanistan Bande Sardeh A suicide bomber on a bicycle kills a Turkish engineer and injures two others.

7/4/05 India Dadsar The Mujahideen abduct then shoot a civilian to death.

7/4/05 Iraq Baghdad A remote-controlled bomb kills two civilians, including a woman.

7/4/05 Dagestan Makhachkala Two policemen are killed by an insurgent bombing.

7/3/05 Syria Damascus Two Syrian border patrol personnel are killed an an Islamic extremist, near Lebanon.

7/3/05 Afghanistan Kandahar Pro-democracy cleric is killed by a Talibn sniper his home.

7/2/05 Afghanistan Paktika The Taliban attack a UN convoy with a roadside bomb, killing six Afghan security personnel.

7/2/05 Dagestan Makhachkala 11 Russian troops and civilians are casualties in a radio-controlled bomb attack outside a bathhouse blamed on Islamic militants.

7/2/05 Iraq Hillah Two Sunni suicide bombers kill at least six people and injured dozens more in a Shia neighborhood.

7/2/05 Iraq Baghdad A suicidal Muslim bomber kills sixteen other people outside a police station. About two dozen others are injured in the blast.

7/2/05 Iraq Mahmoudiya A bomb hidden in a vegetable cart targets a Shia funeral procession.

7/1/05 India Kashmir Three civilians are abducted from their homes and executed by the Mujahideen, including a 65-year-old man.

7/1/05 Iraq Baghdad A Shiite cleric is gunned down in cold blood by Sunnis in a drive-by attack.

6/30/05 Iraq Baghdad Muslim gunmen burst into an optician's shop and kill seven people in cold blood - four from the same family.

6/30/05 India Mahakund The Mujahideen kill a 20-year-old girl on the night before her wedding, along with her mother and a neighbor. A civilian is also abducted from his home and killed in the same district.

6/30/05 India Kallar Kattal A man is attacked in his home and beaten to death by militant Muslims.

6/30/05 Afghanistan Tirin Kot Nine village elders are kidnapped and killed by the Taliban, along with a 10-year-old boy.

6/29/05 India Srinagar Fourteen people are injured when the Mujahideen toss a grenade into a city street.

6/29/05 Israel Mt. Dov Hezbollah attacks an Israeli position from across the Lebanese border, killing one and injuring three.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

:o :o
 
Iraq, India, Afghanistan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Thailand, Russia, Syria, Chechnya, Algeria, Mauritania, Lebanon, Philippines, Nigeria, Somalia, Dagestan, UK (London)….. any Muslim here able to explain why other Muslims do this?

7/24/05 Dagestan Makhachkala Muslim terrorists put a bomb beneath a passenger train that kills one and injures four commuters.

7/24/05 Iraq Baghdad A horrific scene as a Fedayeen suicide bomber kills twenty-two people, mostly civilians in a crowded area near sidewalk cafes.

7/23/05 Israel Kissufim Palestinian gunmen murder an Israeli husband and wife. They also open fire on medical rescue workers, injuring five of them.

7/23/05 Egypt Sharm el-Sheik More than eighty tourists and workers are killed when Islamic militants detonate three powerful car bombs outside a café and two hotels. One suicide bomber drove into the lobby. Over one-hundred people suffer injuries.

7/23/05 Thailand Narathiwat Islamic militants shoot a 58-year-old village leader twice in the head as he is riding with his wife.

7/23/05 Lebanon Beirut Twelve people are injured by a car bomb placed in a Christian neighborhood.

7/23/05 Afghanistan Kandahar The Taliban assassinate a judge as he is walking to work.

7/22/05 Iraq Baghdad 12 5 Four Jihad attacks leave twelve Iraqis dead, including a senseless ambush on a wedding party that left the bride and her mother dead.

7/22/05 Pakistan South Waziristan al-Qaeda suspected in shooting deaths of a tribal leader, his two sons and brother.

7/21/05 Iraq Mahmudiya A religious extremist kills himself and five innocents in a blast at a traffic checkpoint.

7/21/05 India Sopore Two civilians are killed when the Mujahideen attack a security camp.

7/21/05 Afghanistan Helmand The Taliban ambush a vehicle carrying two people. Both are killed in the explosion.

7/21/05 India Anantnag Militant Muslims fire on a bus stop, killing a civilian and injuring two others.

7/20/05 Iraq Hilla Two car Jihad bombings kill four and injure four, including a young girl.

7/20/05 Iraq Baghdad A suicidal Sunni murders ten people near an airport and causes egregious injuries to at least a dozen others.

7/20/05 India Srinigar Hizbul Mujahideen suicide bomber targets a missionary children's school in the Indian capital, killing at least six and injuring more than a dozen.

7/20/05 Pakistan Gilgit Three people are gunned down in sectarian attacks.

7/19/05 Iraq Baqubah Jihadis stage a shooting attack on a minivan carrying civilians, killing thirteen in all.

7/19/05 Chechnya Znamenskoye 6 Fourteen people, including civilians, are killed in a Jihad attack by Muslim separatists on a remote road.

7/19/05 India Chitabas The Hizbul Mujahideen enter a residence and slaughter six members of a family, in a heinous attack.

7/18/05 Pakistan Chilas Farm Five passengers aboard a bus are killed when the Mujahideen ambush it along a mountain road. Fifteen others are injured.

7/18/05 India Arwani The Mujahideen shoot a man to death outside his shop.

7/18/05 Afghanistan Uruzgan Nine villagers are slaughtered in a Taliban raid.

7/18/05 Pakistan Quetta A Shia schoolteacher is gunned down, and his wife critically injured.

7/18/05 Pakistan Karachi A Sunni cleric is attacked in his car by Shia on motorcycles, who manage to kill his son.

7/18/05 Iraq Baghdad Islamic insurgents murder six policemen and a government worker in six separate shooting attacks.

7/18/05 Thailand Yala In three separate attacks, Muslims behead a farmer and shoot at least two other people to death, including a school principal.

7/17/05 Iraq Baghdad Four Fedayeen kill twenty-two people in separate suicide suicide bombings.

7/16/05 Thailand Narathiwat Muslim separatists attack a school, killing two security guards.

7/16/05 Iraq Musayyib A religious extremist with explosives wrapped around his chest, detonates himself in a crowded city street, killing over seventy other people. Nearly two-hundred others are injured in the horrific attack.

7/16/05 Iraq Basra Muslim terrorists kill three British soldiers with a roadside bomb.

7/16/05 India Baramulla 2 0 The Mujahideen shoot a man to death outside his home, and also stage a separate attack that kills a 6-year-old girl.

7/15/05 Iraq Baghdad Seven suicide bombers take at least twenty-seven innocents with them to Allah. About one hundred others suffer injuries; many lose limbs.

7/15/05 Thailand Narathiwat Two female teachers are gunned down by Muslims on motorcycles as they are walking home.

7/14/05 Thailand Yala Islamic militants set off four bombs in restaraunts and other business areas, killing at least two people.

7/14/05 Israel Netiv Haasara Palestinian terrorists hit an Israeli residence with a missile, killing a woman.

7/13/05 Pakistan Jhal Magsi Three children, including two brothers, are killed by a homemade bomb.

7/13/05 India Bigambri The Mujahideen abduct a civilian, then kill him in captivity.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

:( :(
 
Iraq, India, Afghanistan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Thailand, Russia, Syria, Chechnya, Algeria, Mauritania, Lebanon, Philippines, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Bangladesh, Somalia, Dagestan, UK (London)….. any Muslim here able to explain why other Muslims do this?

8/8/05 Iraq al-Sharqat Seven civilians, including three children are murdered when Islamic terrorists bomb a minibus.

8/7/05 India Thatharaka The Mujahideen invade two residences, killing one civilian and severely injuring another.

8/7/05 Iraq Baghdad In six separate attacks, Jihadi gunmen kill ten Iraqis.

8/7/05 Iraq Tikrit Suicide bomber blows himself to Allah, taking two Iraqis with him. Ten others are injured.

8/6/05 India Doda The Mujahideen throw a grenade at a hostel, killing a pregnant woman.

8/5/05 Iraq Dora Jihadis open fire on a line of cars at a gas station, killing one civilian.

8/5/05 Iraq Mosul The bodies of five civilians, including a kidnapped Christian surface in Mosul with signs of torture.

8/5/05 Iraq Baquba Muslim fanatics invade the home of an Iraqi soldier and kill his wife, 12-year-old daughter and 6-year-old son in their beds.

8/4/05 Afghanistan Lashkar Gah The Taliban kill an election worker in an attack from a motorcycle.

8/4/05 Pakistan Miranshah al-Qaeda militants kill five Pakistani soldiers with a landmine.

8/4/05 Iraq Doloyah Jihadis shoot two engineers to death for working at a U.S. base.

8/4/05 Iraq Baquba A Fedayeen suicide bomber kills four Iraqis and injures an unknown number of others.

8/3/05 Iraq Basra Shia gunmen abduct and execute an American journalist. They also cause severe injury to his female interpretor.

8/3/05 Iraq Haditha Fourteen U.S. Marines and one civilian are killed when terrorists detonate a bomb under their vehicle.

8/3/05 Israel Sderot Palestinian terrorists fire a rocket at a group of Israeli demostrators. The missile hits their own group instead, killing a 3-year-old boy and injuring nine others, including five children.

8/2/05 Iraq Shu'la Shia gunmen kill a Sunni cleric and his brother, then gun down a vehicle carrying five mourners on their way to view the bodies.

8/2/05 India Nandyali A woman is shot to death by the Mujahideen inside her home.

8/2/05 Afghanistan Nuristan The Taliban kill eight police in an attack on their checkpoint.

8/2/05 Iraq Baghdad An Islamic suicide bomber kills four civilians and injures two dozen.

8/2/05 India Pulwama The Mujhideen kill a man who is woking his paddy fields.

7/31/05 Iraq Haswa Seven civilians are killed by a Jihad car bombing.

7/31/05 India Badarkot A civilian is shot to death inside his own home by militant Muslims.

7/30/05 Iraq Baghdad Police find the bodies of three airport workers, bound and tortured by the Jihadis. Their throats were cut.

7/30/05 Iraq Basra A bomb attack on the British Embassy convoy leaves two security guards dead and two children injured.

7/30/05 India Srinigar The Mujahideen stage an attack on a hotel that claims the lives of two security personnel and injures about twenty-five others.

7/30/05 Iraq Baghdad A Fedayeen suicide bomber kills six Iraqis near a theatre. Twenty-six others are injured.

7/30/05 Afghanistan Charchino A district governor and his two bodyguards are assassinated by the Taliban in a roadside attack.

7/29/05 India Kupwara The Mujahideen invade a home to kill the wife of a police officer, along with his young nephew.

7/29/05 India Rajouri Muslims line up five Hindu villagers and then slit their throats. Elsewhere in the same district, they murder a woman with an axe.

7/29/05 India Doda Islamists kill two policemen in an ambush.

7/29/05 Thailand Pattani A village leader is gunned down and three others suffer injuries in a separate attack in Narathiwat.

7/29/05 Iraq Rabiah A suicidal religious extremist wanders into a crowd of people and detonates explosives strapped to his body, killing at over fifty people.

7/29/05 Algeria Boumerdes The Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat kill two Algerian police officers in an ambush.

7/28/05 India Sokar A 5-year-old girl, her mother and grandmother are slaughtered in a home invasion by the Mujahideen.

7/28/05 Bangladesh Boalmari Two Christian charity workers are hacked to death inside their home by hard-line Islamic militants.

7/27/05 Iraq Baghdad al-Qaeda executes two Algerian diplomats that were abducted several days earlier.

7/26/05 India Mahore Hizb-ul-Mujahideen members invade a home and murder a civilian.

7/26/05 Chechnya Dargo Muslim terrorists ambush a security patrol, killing one and injuring three.

7/26/05 Ethiopia Jigjiga A Muslim separatist group, the ONLF, kills five people, including a child, in two grenade attacks against civilian targets.

7/26/05 Afghanistan Kandahar The Taliban kill a police chief and one other with a rocket attack on their car.

7/26/05 Iraq Hilla Three policemen are killed when terrorists fire a rocket at point-blank range.

7/26/05 Iraq Basra In two separate attacks (one in Tikrit) Jihadis kill three innocents, including a child and a truck driver.

7/26/05 Iraq Baghdad Sunni gunmen massacre sixteen Shia civilians with an automatic weapons attack on their vehicles. Over two dozen are inured with gunshot wounds.

7/25/05 Iraq Baghdad A Fedayeen suicide bomber drives his car in front of a hotel and slaughters a dozen people. Sixteen others are injured.

7/24/05 Iraq Baghdad A horrific scene as a Fedayeen suicide bomber kills twenty-two people, mostly civilians in a crowded area near sidewalk cafes.

TROP.jpg


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/


:( :(
 
Islam is a peaceful religion, as is Christianity, yet radicals twist and skew the religion and do violence against their own holy book.
 
Sleeker said:
Islam is a peaceful religion, as is Christianity, yet radicals twist and skew the religion and do violence against their own holy book.

So how do you explain the Jihad surah (verses) in the Quran?

:-?
 
Could you repeat them or say which post they are on? I didn't read through all 9 pages, for many posts were just about violence initiated by those who claim to be Muslim.
 
If you are defending Islam, surely you know the Jihad verses.

You claim that "Islam is a peaceful religion.... yet radicals twist and skew the religion and do violence against their own holy book."

So please explain what "violence" they do against the Jihad verses of the Quran.

If you have not even read the Quran, I suggest you start with Suras 9:33, 61:9 and 48:28.

Or maybe you would like to explain Suras 33:25-26, 4:24, 33:4, 8:70, 9:29, 8:7, 33:27, 59:5, 59:2...

Or why not explain Suras 61:10, 9:111 etc...

Have you actually READ the Quran?

If not, start here: http://quranbrowser.com/

Do you have any idea what this "peaceful" religion of Islam says about Jihad in the Hadith?

:-? :-? :-?
 
Gary said:
Suras 9:33, 61:9 and 48:28.
I don't see anything wrong with it...

Or maybe you would like to explain Suras 33:25-26, 4:24, 33:4, 8:70, 9:29, 8:7, 33:27, 59:5, 59:2...
The first makes it seem like Allah will do all of the fighting and that Muslims need not to fight.

9:29 is the only one that provokes fighting, but whether that means violent fighting or not depends on interpretation.


Or why not explain Suras 61:10, 9:111 etc...
9:111 says to actually do violence, but in the cause of Allah, but it never really says what the cause of Allah is...

Have you actually READ the Quran?
No, but I've heard enough testimonials to know they are peaceful..
 
So you conclude Islam is peaceful....

(1) by NOT reading the Quran or the Hadith
(2) by reading testimonials. Which ones have you read? Name a few please
(3) by ignoring all the acts of terror and murder committed by Muhammad and his followers

:o :o
 
Gary said:
(1) by NOT reading the Quran or the Hadith
By reading the verses you say prove Islam is a violent religion, whereas I didn't get that impression at all.

(2) by reading testimonials. Which ones have you read? Name a few please
They are on other forums. Those threads have been deleted by now.

(3) by ignoring all the acts of terror and murder committed by Muhammad and his followers
That would be like saying Christianity is a violent religion because of the Crusades... :roll:
 
Iraq, India, Afghanistan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Thailand, Russia, Syria, Chechnya, Algeria, Mauritania, Lebanon, Philippines, Nigeria, Ethiopia, Bangladesh, Somalia, Dagestan, UK (London)….. any Muslim here able to explain why other Muslims do this?

8/11/05 Algeria Skikda Muslim extremists kill three community guards and injure four others.

8/10/05 India Bandipore The Mujahideen abduct and later kill a police officer.

8/10/05 Pakistan Quetta Muslim extremists kill two Shia civilians in separate motorcycle attacks.

8/10/05 Iraq Baghdad Jihadis kill a 12-year-old girl's mother and pharmacist father in an attack that also leaves her injured.

8/10/05 Afghanistan Bakurzai The Taliban drag a poor, illiterate woman from her house and shoot her to death.

8/10/05 Philippines Zamboanga Abu Sayyaf behind two bombs that injure twenty-six near a parked van and at a restaurant.

8/10/05 Iraq Baiji Two oil pipeline security guards are shot to death by Islamic terrorists.

8/10/05 Iraq Ghazaliya A suicidal Sunni detonates a car bomb near a group of police, killing at least six, including four civilians. Fourteen suffer injury.

8/10/05 Pakistan Taza Ghondai al-Qaeda targets and kills four civilians with a landmine.

8/9/05 Iraq Baghdad At least six separate Jihad attacks, mostly on civilians, leave over twenty Iraqis dead and more twice that many injured.

8/9/05 Iraq Baiji In a senseless attack, terrorists use a roadside bomb and small arms fire to kill four U.S. soldiers investigating explosives.

8/9/05 India Thannamandi A shepherd is beaten to death by the Mujahideen.

8/9/05 Chechnya Grozny Militant Muslims spray a car with automatic weapons fire, killing the parent of a young child, who was also severely injured in the attack.

TROP.jpg


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

:( :(
 
In the Crusades, Christian committed atrocities. Does that make Christianity a violent religion, or those that twisted the Bible's words violent?
 
Sleeker, you may want to educate yourself on a few facts:

(1) The Christian Crusades ordered by Pope Urban II in 1095 were in response to Muslim aggression which had been going on for decades. The Christians who committed atrocities in the name of Christ were NOT doing what Jesus would have wanted them to do. They were going AGAINST Christ's teachings.

(2) However, the Muslim Crusades (I bet you did not even know that there were such events!) were in direct response to Muhammad's example and the words in the Quran. They were doing what Muhammad himself had done and what the Quran and the Hadith taught.

Can you understand the difference?

Again, to try and educate you further, please READ the context of the Jihad verses in the Quran and the Hadith. There are many dozen Jihad verses in the Quran. BEFORE you comment again, please READ them!
a) http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/jihad/
b) http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/ji ... detail.htm

The last 15 or so instructions from the Quran are the following: (in paraphrase... go to the links to see the actual verses)

  • 1) Sura 9:1-6 (dissolve all treaties with those pagans who haven't kept them, giving them four months notice. But keep your treaties with other idol worshipers till the end of the time agreed upon. In the future, make no more treaties with pagans, but kill those who do not receive Islam)
    2) Sura 9:11,12,14,15 (Pagans who accept Islam become brother Muslims. Fight those who break their agreements. Allah will punish them by your hands)
    3) Sura 9:16 (Allah knows those who strive with all they have, and don't make friends with or seek protection from non-Muslims)
    4) Sura 9:19-22 (Jihad is greater than other service, and of the highest rank in the sight of Allah)
    5) Sura 9:25,26 (fighting in the battle of Hunain Jan. 31, 630)
    6) Sura 9:28 (forbid the pagans to enter the Ka’aba)
    7) Sura 9:29-31 (fight against Jews and Christians until they are subdued, because Allah's curse is on them)
    8) Sura 9:38,39,41 (don't avoid fighting, but fight with whatever you have. Otherwise Allah will punish you with serious punishment)
    9) Sura 9:52,73 (Muslims can expect either martyrdom/paradise or victory in battle. Unbelievers can expect only punishment from Allah. Fight hard against unbelievers, whose abode is hell)
    10) Sura 9:81-96 (those who are able but don't want to fight are rejected of Allah. Those unable are forgiven)
    11) Sura 9:111 (Allah gives Paradise to those who give all they have to Allah and slay and/or are slain in Jihad)
    12) Sura 9:122 (not everyone should go to fight, and those who stay are equal with those who go)
    13) Sura 9:123 (fight the unbelievers surrounding you)
    14) Sura 5:36-38 (death or torture to those who oppose the Apostle)
    15) Sura 5:54 (don't befriend Jews or Christians because they are unjust and unreliable)
Please don't comment unless you intend to carefully and fully read ALL these verses from the Qur’an and the traditions (Hadith) on the subject of Jihad.

Here are the links again:
a) http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/jihad/
b) http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/ji ... detail.htm

Also, as you have not even read the Quran nor the Hadith, I don't think you are in any position to comment on whether or not Islam is a religion of peace.

To help you LEARN something about Islam and myth of the religion of peace, read this:
-Top ten reasons why Islam is not the religion of peace-

Also, so that you can start to understand who this man Muhammad was and how he killed and murdered his enemies, read these:

  • (1) Muhammad and the Rape of the Female Slaves -here-
    (2) Muhammad and the Murder of Abu Afak -here-
    (3) Muhammad and the Murder of Asma bint Marwan -here-
    (4) The Deception and Murder of Kab al-Ashraf -here-
    (5) Muhammad and the Death of Kinana -here-
    (6) Muhammad and the Death of the Uraynians -here-
    (7) Muhammad and the Killing of Apostates -here-
    (8) Muhammad and the Meccan Ten -here-
    (9) Muhammad and the Treaty of Hudaybiyya -here-
:o :o

When you have read those, you may be in a better position to talk about Islam with some knowledge.

:)
 
Gary said:
Suras 9:33, 61:9 and 48:28.
Sleeker said:
I don't see anything wrong with it...

The goal of jihad

A complicated policy like jihad can have multiple goals or purposes, but this one comes late in Muhammad’s life in Medina and best summarizes the goal and purpose. He wants to make Islam prevail over every religion.

The following translation is approved and funded by the Saudi Royal family; the parenthetical explanations are inserted by the translators:

  • 9:33 It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth, to make it superior over all religions, though the Mushrikûn (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it). (Hilali and Khan, The Noble Qur’an, Riyadh: Darussalam, 1996, 2002; parenthetical notes are theirs)
This verse is repeated two more times, word for word, in Suras 61:9 and 48:28. Muhammad means business.

The Arabic word for "to make it superior" comes from the root z-h-r, which means "to become distinct, obvious, conspicuous, or manifest; to ascend or to mount; to have the upper hand." It can also mean "triumph" or "victorious" or "prevail."

Seekers and the curious about Islam must understand this brute fact as they read the Quran: in the ten years that Muhammad lived in Medina (AD 622-632), he either sent out or went out on seventy-four small assassination hit squads, raids, expeditions, small battles, or full-scale wars like the Tabuk Crusade in AD 630, in which Muhammad led 30,000 soldiers north to invade the Byzantine empire. Sometimes the conflicts did not end in violence, but too many times they did. All verses (and there are not many) in the Medinan suras that seem to speak of peace and tolerance must be read in light of this violent historical context. Not far from the few tolerant verses the reader will find intolerant and violent verses.

Sura 9:33, simply put, predicts the conquest of Islam over all religions. Islam must dominate the world through jihad.

Source and further reading:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... conomy.htm
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... /jihad.htm

:)
 
Gary said:
Or maybe you would like to explain Suras 33:25-26, 4:24, 33:4, 8:70, 9:29, 8:7, 33:27, 59:5, 59:2...
Sleeker said:
The first makes it seem like Allah will do all of the fighting and that Muslims need not to fight.
9:29 is the only one that provokes fighting, but whether that means violent fighting or not depends on interpretation.

What are some rules of jihad?

1. Conquered women and children may be enslaved.

In AD 627 Muhammad and his followers and allies withstood a large army of Meccans and their allies, without ever slugging it out in pitched battle. The Meccans attacked Muhammad because they were fed up with his aggressions against their trade. He dug trenches in spots around Medina to diminish the advantage that the Meccans had with their cavalry. After about a month the Meccans withdrew because of a fair that was about to begin, and this large gathering from all over brought in money. But Muhammad was not finished. While he was bathing, the archangel Gabriel allegedly appeared to him and told him to attack the large Qurayza tribe of Jews. He besieged them in their fortress, and after some negotiations and a "trial," the men were beheaded and their bodies and heads dragged and tossed into the trenches, whereas the women and children were sold into slavery.

These three verses, especially v. 26, in Sura 33 deal with this indefensible atrocity:

  • 33:25 Allah turned back the unbelievers [Meccans and their allies] in a state of rage, having not won any good, and Allah spared the believers battle [q-t-l]. Allah is, indeed, Strong and Mighty. 26 And He brought those of the People of the Book [Qurayza] who supported them from their fortresses and cast terror into their hearts, some of them you slew [q-t-l] and some you took captive. 27 And he bequeathed to you their lands, their homes and their possessions, together with land you have never trodden. Allah has power over everything. (Majid Fakhry, An Interpretation of the Quran, NYUP, 2000, 2004)
These verses seem to celebrate death and conquest. The key root word in brackets, q-t-l or qital or qatala, means killing, warring, and slaughtering. This meaning is much more restricted than jihad, though this latter word can also mean killing, warring, or slaughtering. Next, Allah permits the enslavement of Qurayza women and children, so later Muslim familiar with the background of this verse will follow their prophet in this practice. Finally, Allah permits Muhammad to take the Jewish clan’s property on the basis of conquest and his possession of all things. This is a dubious revelation and reasoning. Allah speaks, and this benefits Muhammad materially. This happens too often in Muhammad’s life.

Selling humans into slavery produced a lot of wealth, so the Allah-inspired prophet never got a revelation that this practice should stop permanently and forever.

Muslim apologists (defenders of Islam), understandably, are quick to explain (away) this atrocity against the Qurayza, but their standard lines of defense have been answered here (scroll down to "Politics, Warfare, and Conquest," and point no. 5).

2. Women captives are sometimes forced to marry their Muslim masters, regardless of the marital status of the women. That is, the masters are allowed to have sex with the enslaved sex objects.

Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, a highly respected Muslim commentator, reminds us that the historical context of the next sura finds Muhammad establishing rules for his community within two to five years after his Hijrah (Emigration) in AD 622. He lays down laws for marriage. What happens to slave women who are captured during the raids that the Muslims go on frequently? Sura 4:24 says:

  • 4:24 And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands (as prisoners of war) . . . (Sayyid A’La Abul Maududi, The Meaning of the Quran, vol. 1, p. 319).
Maududi says in his comment on the verse that is it lawful for Muslims to marry women prisoners of war even when their husbands are still alive. But what happens if the husbands are captured with their wives? Maududi cites a school of law that says Muslims may not marry them, but two other schools, notably one that is analyzed under "Classical legal opinions," below, say that the marriage between the captive husbands and wives is broken. But why would a debate over this emerge? The answer is obvious for those who understand simple justice. No marriage should take place between prisoners of war and their captors, married or not. No sex should take place between women captives and their Muslim overlords. But Islam traffics in injustice too often, as we saw with the Qurayza tribe.

Islam allows deep immorality with women who are in their most helpless condition. This crime is reprehensible, but Allah wills it nonethelessâ€â€the Quran says so.

The hadith also demonstrate that Muslims jihadists actually have sex with the captured women, whether or not they are married.

3. A captured enemy may be killed, ransomed by money or by an exchange, enslaved, or released freely.

Sura 33:26 speaks of killing captured men and enslaving women and children (the same may be done to men in other battles, as the hadith and history demonstrate). A verse that comes earlier in the same sura says that after the captives are bound firmly, they may be released by freely or by ransom.

  • 33:4 When you meet the disbelievers in battle, strike them in the neck, and once they are defeated, bind any captives firmlyâ€â€later you can release them by grace or by ransomâ€â€until the toils of war have ended. That [is the way]. (Haleem)
Imprisonment may be just if the captured enemy may return to fight against the conquerors at a later time. But selling prisoners of war either into slavery or back to their clan was an Arab custom that Allah should have abolished in a revelation to his prophet. But why should Muhammad receive this just revelation when money could be made by ransoming prisoners or selling them into slavery?

Allah should have taken away this option and allowed only free release or imprisonment.

4. The conquered are allowed (or forced) to convert.

In Sura 8, which deals with the Battle of Badr in AD 624, Muhammad proposes these options to his captives.

  • 8:70 Prophet, tell those you have taken captive, "If God knows of any good in your hearts, He will give you something better [Islam] than what has been taken from you [the caravan], and He will forgive you" . . . (Haleem)
Muhammad tells them that if the conquered Meccans had any sense, they would realize that Allah had a divine plan: expose them to Islam. This is better than all the material riches they can trade in. However, it is not difficult to imagine a Meccan muttering under his breath that he would prefer to takes his money and goods and return to Mecca, wanting Muhammad to stop harassing the Meccans’ trade.

Also, it is laughable for the prophet to offer only Islam in lieu of the Meccans’ material goods. Preaching religion at newly captured prisoners and justifying the aggressive Battle of Badr that robbed the Meccan of their caravan is misguided. Why not return their goods? Why go out on this raid in the first place?

5. Is it lawful to kill old men and Christian monks?

One school of law in the section "Classical legal opinions" says that it is legal to kill old men and monks. Where may they get this opinion? We should recall that Sura 33:26 says that all the men of the Qurayza tribe were killed, so that verse alone justifies this atrocity. It is possible that the school of law analyzed in the section "Classical legal opinions," below, justifies the death of monks from two passages.

First, Allah says to fight Jews and Christians or People of the Book in Sura 9, the historical context of which has been discussed above ("What is the purpose or goal of jihad?"):

  • 9:29 Fight [q-t-l] against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (Hilali and Khan)
Then Muhammad condemns rabbis and monks who devour the property of people and bar them from following the path of Allah (read: convert to Islam) in the same sura:

  • 9:33 O believers [Muslims], many of the rabbis and monks devour the property of the people unjustly and bar others from the Path of Allah [Islam]. Those who hoard gold and silver and do not spend them in Allah’s path, announce to them a very painful punishment. (Fakhry)
It is true that Muhammad goes on to explain an eternal hellish punishment for monks (v. 35), but it is not farfetched to believe that a strict school of law would combine the command to fight People of the Book (v. 29), with the condemnation of unjust and greedy monks. Why would these monks not be the first ones to be killed in a battle? However, it may be the case that the strict school of law may justify their deaths simply because they are Christian leaders.

6. Property may be stolen.

Muhammad fought the Battle of Badr in AD 624, in which 320 or so Muslims won a surprise victory over about 1000 Meccans. Their caravan was traveling south from Syria back to Mecca, and Muhammad intended to capture it. The Meccans got word of this raid and sent their army up to meet their caravan. Sura 8 deals with this (in)famous battle, and this verse says that Muhammad wanted the unarmed group (the large caravan), but Allah gave him not only that one, but also the armed group so that truth may prevail.

  • 8:7 Remember how God promised you [believers] that one of the two enemy groups [The Meccan trade caravan or their army] would fall to you: you wanted the unarmed group to be yours, but it was God’s will to establish the truth according to His word and to finish off the disbelievers (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qu’ran, Oxford UP, 2004)
This verse says that only the Muslims wanted the caravan or material goods, whereas Muhammad rose above such petty concerns. However, history and simple reasoning says that he too wanted the material goods. If not, then he should have given back all the goods. It is always dubious to connect God’s truth with military victory, but no matter, for Muhammad captured a huge caravan, and now he was richer than ever before.

Also, we should not overlook Sura 33:27, quoted above, that promises all of the property of the Qurayza tribe:

  • 33:27 And he bequeathed to you their lands, their homes and their possessions, together with land you have never trodden. Allah has power over everything. (Fakhry)
The word "bequeathed" is a euphemism for "stole" by conquest. As noted, timely and coincidental revelations that benefit Muhammad materially come often enough in his life.

7. Fruit trees may be destroyed.

In AD 625, Muhammad is strong enough to exile the Nadir tribe of Jews, besieging them in their strongholds for fifteen days until he started destroying their date palms, their livelihood. Their livelihood undergoing destruction and then theft, they departed to the city of Khaybar, seventy miles to the north, where they had estates. This takeover helped relieve the ongoing poverty of many Muslims, who took over their date orchards.

This verse in Sura 59 justifies his illegal act:

  • 59:5 Whatever you [believers] may have done to [their] palm treesâ€â€cutting them down or leaving them standing on their rootsâ€â€was done by God’s leave [permission], so that He might disgrace those who defied Him. (Haleem)
This is another coincidental and timely revelation that seeks to justify the unjustifiable. Later Muslim warriors may use this practice to destroy other assets that are valuable to civilians, so this is unjust for Allah and his prophet.

8. Homes may be destroyed.

In the same sura, Muhammad destroys the homes of the Nadir tribe.

  • 59:2 . . . God came upon them [Jews of the Nadir tribe] from where they least expected and put panic into their hearts: they brought ruin to their own homes by their own hands, as well as the hands of the believers [Muslims] . . . (Haleem)
A classical opinion of one school of law agrees and also says that homes may be destroyed. This is also unjust for the revelation-soaked religion of Islam.

9. Three options are imposed on the enemy.

It should be recalled that Sura 9:29 lays out some conditions for the People of the Book, when a Muslim army gathers outside their city gate, as Muslim interpreters agree:

(1) Fight and die; (2) convert; (3) keep their religion, but pay a tax, the jizyah, which Muslim apologists (defenders) argue amounted to "protection" for the "privilege" of living under Islam (read: not be attacked again).

This is as close as Muhammad can get to forcing the enemy to convert without technically forcing them. This policy will be worked out and further imposed after Muhammad dies of a fever in AD 632, and the policy will not always keep these fine line distinctions.

Source and further reading:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... conomy.htm
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... /jihad.htm

:o :o
 
Gary said:
Or why not explain Suras 61:10, 9:111 etc...
Sleeker said:
9:111 says to actually do violence, but in the cause of Allah, but it never really says what the cause of Allah is...

What happens to martyrs in jihad?

Martyrs are guaranteed a fast track to Islamic paradise. Their deaths are depicted in economic terms. If they expend their lives as a living currency, Allah will exchange them for heavenly Islamic gardens.

  • 61:10 You who believe, shall I show you a bargain that will save you from painful punishment? 11 Have faith in God and His Messenger and struggle [j-h-d] for His cause with your possessions and your personsâ€â€that is better for you, if only you knewâ€â€12 and He will forgive your sins, admit you into Gardens graced with flowing streams, into pleasant dwellings in the Gardens of Eternity. That is the supreme triumph. (Haleem)
Muslims who struggle (j-h-d) in Allah’s cause will either win the battle and live to see another day, so that they can collect some spoils of war, or they will die and have their sins forgiven and be admitted into Islamic heaven.

Sura 9:111 carries on the economic bargain.

  • 9:111 God has purchased the persons and possessions of the believers for the Gardenâ€â€they fight [q-t-l] in God’s way: they kill [q-t-l] and are killed [q-t-l]â€â€this is a true promise given by Him in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Qur’an. Who could be more faithful to his promise than God? So be happy with the bargain you have made: that is the supreme triumph. (Haleem)
Two things should be noticed here. First, the root q-t-l is used three times in this short verse. Qital or qatala, means killing, warring, and slaughtering and is therefore less ambiguous or has a more restricted meaning than jihad, though this latter word can mean those same bloody acts.

Thus, if Muslim apologists (defenders) explain (away) jihad as non-violent, then they have not factored in the frequently used word qital.

If the readers would like to see the heavenly "virgin verses" in the Quran, they should go here http://quranbrowser.com/ and type in these references: 44:51-56; 52:17-29; 55:46-78.

This is reason enough for dazed and confused young men to join Islam and become radicalized.

:(

Source and further reading:
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... conomy.htm
http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... /jihad.htm

:( :(