The Religion of Peace

[Drummer4Christ]

http://youtube.com//watch?v=43INJy_cf3MIf the link doesn't work, I'll fix it later.

google 2011 Arab Festival Preacher Harassed

 

[Drummer4Christ]

Link is fixed. For some one who grew up with computers and the Internet, I can be awfully technologically illiterate!

 

[handy]

I don't think the man was wise in what he was doing. It was the wrong venue...he went to a Arab Festival and preached Jesus Christ. Of course the people were going to be angry.

I truly challenge folks here to be honest...in all honesty, don't you think if there was a Christian gathering like this, and a Muslim man came and started shouting "There is no god but Allah", that he would generate some of the same reactions.

This man, he was confrontational from the start of the video...going to their festival and saying "If you don't want to hear me, then leave". He was provoking, not just "preaching"...


...not cool. And, obviously, not the least bit effective.

 

[stovebolts]

Dora,

Not everyone was hostile toward him. But I wonder, would Christians act that way toward a Muslim in a public gathering? I mean, would a Christian hold a bible in one hand while using the other to give the bird, all while screaming profanities and cursing... If this is true, then may God have mercy on us all.

If anything, I respect the preachers integrity, calmness and spirit as I ponder if I could do the same, especially being that I live so close to Dearborn, comparatively speaking.

I understand this is two seperate situations, but I can relate to Jonah when God told him to go to Ninivah.

Was the preacher effective? All he has to do is plant the seeds and God does the rest. God's word always has a return.

 

[reba]

We dont go to the freeway to play with the big trucks while asking God to keep us safe.

 

[stovebolts]

I understand Reba, and I'm not intentionally trying to be confrontational or anything like that.

What we know as the great commission states to go into all the nations preaching the good news. That good news is Christ Jesus, and the preacher was certainly preaching to another nation.

I also know that we are not all called to the same task. So for me, I can only pray that God not task me with something as frightening as going into a hostile area to preach the gospel... which reminds me, in the OT it was thought that those who love God, were willing to lay down their life for Him, as many of the prophets did. In conventional wisdom, it's foolish to go preach where you know you'll be scorn, but that's just what we read over and over again in the OT, and we see Jesus doing the same.

I'm not a prophet, and I'm thankful I'm not. About the best I can do is say I'm glad it was him preaching in Dearborn, because I don't have the guts... or is that faith?

 

[reba]

I understand Reba, and I'm not intentionally trying to be confrontational or anything like that.

I never thought you were

On the surface you bet preach the Word to the heathen!

I would ask this guy are you preaching the Word toward the salvation of the lost or to get the press? In the real world that is a heart issue and between him and God. But we are here talking in the cyber world. Is it a right thing to do to set ourselves up for persecution?

I agree with ya Stove, do I have the guts? Often i fail in pleasant company
Casting pearls and shaking the dust are few thoughts that come to mind....
Brother Andrew is a hero he did what he did on the quiet.....

 

[stovebolts]

Yeah, I suppose he could have shaken the dust off his feet a little earlier. It did sound like there were some reasonable people there though. Again, all I can say is it wasn't me and I don't know how I would have responded, and I don't know how the spirit was speaking to this man while he was there. You have to admit, he did seem pretty calm.

Amazing how a handful of hateful people can sway a mob isn't it? Even the kids got bold in their defiance.

 

[stovebolts]

But we are here talking in the cyber world. Is it a right thing to do to set ourselves up for persecution?

What do you mean?

Brother Andrew is a hero he did what he did on the quiet

Who is Brother Andrew?

Funny though, cause how many of the 12 do we know much, if anything about.. We know Peter and John pretty well, but what about the rest? :help

 

[Drummer4Christ]

@ Handy, Reba, Dora & anyone else expressing similar sentiments

With all due respect:

How is preaching the Gospel being intentionally confrontational? The street preacher never said anything remotely similar to "there is no god but Allah". All he said in the beginning was that Jesus is the true path to salvation.
At one point, the preacher agrees with the crowd that he deserves to go to Hell! Islam has no assurance of salvation other than by martyrdom.

Not only that, if you notice the part where the preacher asks the crowd if they are cousins (meaning Christians & Muslims) the crowd responds with a resounding "NO!"

Are you saying that disciples of Christ would respond the same way?

If you notice at the end of the video a young Muslim accuses the preacher of "disrespecting" their religion. When the preacher asks how he has disrespected them, the young man answers "BY BEING HERE, (expletive)!

Are you saying a disciple of Christ would level the same accusation and response?

When the crowd erupts in chanting "Allahu Akbar" (Allah is greater) I only hear "Crucify him, Crucify him!" not a parallel situation of Christians chanting "Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life"

 

[stovebolts]

Drummer,
I liked how he used the Koran to uphold the Torah. And anyone who's studied Torah knows that the Torah upholds the Messiah. I liken that to how Paul takes an "Outside" truth and brings it "Inside".

 

[ronniechoate34]

I don't think the man was wise in what he was doing. It was the wrong venue...he went to a Arab Festival and preached Jesus Christ. Of course the people were going to be angry.

I truly challenge folks here to be honest...in all honesty, don't you think if there was a Christian gathering like this, and a Muslim man came and started shouting "There is no god but Allah", that he would generate some of the same reactions.

This man, he was confrontational from the start of the video...going to their festival and saying "If you don't want to hear me, then leave". He was provoking, not just "preaching"...


...not cool. And, obviously, not the least bit effective.

Bold speech, showing no fear, brandishing the truth.....I don't know, it sounds okay to me.


Do you think that Paul should'nt have preached in some of the places that he went and preached the gospel?

 

[Drummer4Christ]

Drummer,
I liked how he used the Koran to uphold the Torah. And anyone who's studied Torah knows that the Torah upholds the Messiah. I liken that to how Paul takes an "Outside" truth and brings it "Inside".

Exactly!

And what happened when the street preacher quoted the Qur'an?

They responded with "YOU DON'T KNOW (expletive) ABOUT OUR BOOK"!

 

[reba]

Brother Andrew recounts in God's Smuggler how, post-war, he enlisted in the colonial army of the Dutch East Indies during the rebellion that would eventually form Indonesia. He endured a period of severe emotional stress whilst serving as a soldier. He was wounded in the ankle and during his rehabilitation he read the Bible obsessively, eventually converting to Christianity and having his ankle healed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

But we are here talking in the cyber world. Is it a right thing to do to set ourselves up for persecution?

What do you mean?

Is an Arab festable the place to go? Did he set him self up? (This guy seems to me to have right heart i am NOT picking on this guy) or did he head for the freeway to play with trucks.





​

 

[handy]

Do you think that Paul should'nt have preached in some of the places that he went and preached the gospel?

Probably the most famous sermon to those who were not Jews is Paul's sermon to the Athenians.

Yes, Paul was in Athens, but let's breakdown what actually transpired.

Acts 17 starting with verse 16:
Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was being provoked within him as he was observing the city full of idols. So he was reasoning in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Gentiles, and in the market place every day with those who happened to be present.

So, yes, Paul's spirit was provoked to preach...to the Jews, to the God-fearing Gentiles and in the market place with those who happened to be present.
This is a little bit different than what this preacher has done. Paul didn't go to one of the temples or go to one of the festivals to the gods that took place in the city...he basically preached to the choir (so to speak) or in the open market-place.

This encounter did NOT take place in the open market place...it took place at the 2011 Arab Festival. It was an event put on by the Arab American Chamber of Commerce as a family festival.

Here is the advertisement blurb for the event:

On June 17-19, 2011, The American Arab Chamber of Commerce will transform 12 blocks of Warren Ave. into the largest Arab International Festival in the nation, attended by over 300,000 people.

The festival is a free, family-centered cultural celebration that draws over 300,000 people not only from Michigan, but from all over the nation and world. It boasts a great number of amusements, live local and international music acts, thrilling carnival rides, a huge fun-filled children’s tent, a grand artisan tent,coffee cup readings, henna, arts and crafts, Arab merchandise, international food booths, and many other attractions.

Do I think that some WASP type Americans would be "hateful" in their ire towards a Muslim preaching "There is no god but Allah" at a family event specifically for mainly white Christian Americans. Yes...yes, in all honesty I truly do. We have that kind of festival...the Cherry Festival, in the town where I go to church. This town is predominately Christian...one of the "church on every corner" type towns. I could imagine what kind of reception a Muslim preaching "no god but Allah" would get if he started shouting things like, "If you don't want to hear me, then leave."


I want to go back to Paul for a moment, because I think it's important to really learn from this:

Acts 17:18-21
And also some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers were conversing with him. Some were saying, “What would this idle babbler wish to say?†Others, “He seems to be a proclaimer of strange deities,â€â€”because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new teaching is which you are proclaiming? For you are bringing some strange things to our ears; so we want to know what these things mean.†(Now all the Athenians and the strangers visiting there used to spend their time in nothing other than telling or hearing something new.)

The Areopagus was more or less a court where both criminal and civil cases were tried. It doesn't sound as if Paul was put on an official trial, but he was taken by the Athenians to this place and asked to explain his teaching.

This is a far, far cry from what this preacher did.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against street preaching. I've done it myself a time or two or three....It's just that I think that this was the wrong venue for this man to do what he did. I think he headed to the freeway to play with trucks.

They responded with "YOU DON'T KNOW (expletive) ABOUT OUR BOOK"!

There are probably a number of Muslims that will be willing to discuss the Koran and the Bible with Christians. We have had Muslims come here to do exactly that, and I know that some members here have gone onto Muslim websites as well.

But, in that already overcharged environment....

Have you ever watched films of the Civil Rights movements, when blacks would use the Bible to support their claim to civil rights and the good white Christian response would be to turn fire hoses on them or beat them.

I watched an unedited film of this very thing. This is exactly what happened:

Black kid, about 19-20 years old...trying to walk to where a rally was being held at a black church.
White cop, middle aged and outweighs the kid by about 50 lbs. The cop stops the kid, on the public sidewalk, going to his church and says: "Where do you think you're going, boy?"
Black kid, "Sir, I am going to church?"
White cop, "What the hell for? It ain't Sunday, now is it boy?
Black kid, "We are having a prayer meeting tonight, Sir. I am going to pray."
White cop, "Well when I go to church, it's on Sunday boy. You wanna go pray, you can just wait until Sunday like all real Christians do." (emphasis his)
Black kid, "Sir, I am going to my church now..." Doesn't finish his sentence because White cop takes out a baton and beats the young kid who is holding nothing but a Bible to the ground.

I was able to speak with a guy who marched with Martin Luther King, Jr. and he said the worst language that he had ever heard in all of his life came out the mouths of white Southern, Christian ladies during that march.

We gotta take the beam out of our own eye on this one.

 

[stovebolts]

Brother Andrew recounts in God's Smuggler how, post-war, he enlisted in the colonial army of the Dutch East Indies during the rebellion that would eventually form Indonesia. He endured a period of severe emotional stress whilst serving as a soldier. He was wounded in the ankle and during his rehabilitation he read the Bible obsessively, eventually converting to Christianity and having his ankle healed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





What do you mean?

Is an Arab festable the place to go? Did he set him self up? (This guy seems to me to have right heart i am NOT picking on this guy) or did he head for the freeway to play with trucks.





​

Thanks for the link to Brother Andrew!

As far as this guy playing with trucks on the freeway, I keep getting this picture of Paul at Mars Hill.

Acts 17:22-23 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, You men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious. For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore you ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

Imagine all the god's at Mars Hill. No doubt Athena, patron goddess of Athens was among them. And what of Zeus? I wonder if he was there, or Hades, Poseidon, Artemis and Aphrodite.

What was Paul thinking to bring himself to such a place? Well, we have the answer

Acts 17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.

He saw something that stirred his spirit, and he acted on it. I wish I could act on everything that stirred my spirit

That being said, I do like Paul's tact a little better ;-)

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Dora :waving We must have posted at the same time!

Probably the most famous sermon to those who were not Jews is Paul's sermon to the Athenians.

Yes, Paul was in Athens, but let's breakdown what actually transpired.

Acts 17 starting with verse 16:
Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was being provoked within him as he was observing the city full of idols. So he was reasoning in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Gentiles, and in the market place every day with those who happened to be present.

So, yes, Paul's spirit was provoked to preach...to the Jews, to the God-fearing Gentiles and in the market place with those who happened to be present.
This is a little bit different than what this preacher has done. Paul didn't go to one of the temples or go to one of the festivals to the gods that took place in the city...he basically preached to the choir (so to speak) or in the open market-place.

I always viewed that portion of scripture an area where the religious philosophers gathered. Granted, they were susceptible to "new" Gods, where as the Muslims, like the Jews and Christians are monotheistic and all trace back to Abraham.

What I appreciated, was like Paul who brings up the "Unknown God", he brought up their Koran which is to uphold Torah.

This encounter did NOT take place in the open market place...it took place at the 2011 Arab Festival. It was an event put on by the Arab American Chamber of Commerce as a family festival.

Here is the advertisement blurb for the event:

On June 17-19, 2011, The American Arab Chamber of Commerce will transform 12 blocks of Warren Ave. into the largest Arab International Festival in the nation, attended by over 300,000 people.

The festival is a free, family-centered cultural celebration that draws over 300,000 people not only from Michigan, but from all over the nation and world. It boasts a great number of amusements, live local and international music acts, thrilling carnival rides, a huge fun-filled children’s tent, a grand artisan tent,coffee cup readings, henna, arts and crafts, Arab merchandise, international food booths, and many other attractions.

Do I think that some WASP type Americans would be "hateful" in their ire towards a Muslim preaching "There is no god but Allah" at a family event specifically for mainly white Christian Americans. Yes...yes, in all honesty I truly do. We have that kind of festival...the Cherry Festival, in the town where I go to church. This town is predominately Christian...one of the "church on every corner" type towns. I could imagine what kind of reception a Muslim preaching "no god but Allah" would get if he started shouting things like, "If you don't want to hear me, then leave."

Good point. But we are going to hear more and more about Muslims in our country. Currently they are campaigning across america, so if you havn't seen the billboards yet, you will soon.

Off topic, do you have the socialist booths at your cherry festival yet?... They are in almost every festival in every small community around Michigan...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against street preaching. I've done it myself a time or two or three....It's just that I think that this was the wrong venue for this man to do what he did. I think he headed to the freeway to play with trucks.

While I respect and understand your view, I think that what he did was bold and took courage. Had he yelled, mocked or been drawn into their hatred I would have lost respect for the man. But he didn't. He talked to those who would listen and was peaceful in his approach. For some of them, this could have been the first time they have ever heard the gospel aside from their muslim rhetoric.

.02

 

[handy]

But Paul didn't 'bring himself there'. Read Acts 17:19 again.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Dora,

I understand your point, but I think the bigger point is what one does where he's at, not necessarily how one got there to begin with.

God looks at the heart, and Paul's heart was stirred at what he saw, and given the opportunity, he used what was at his disposal to win some over to Christ.

Just so you know Dora, I wouldn't do what that preacher did, but the way he went about it, I can't see any wrong doing. Did he walk into a hornets nest? Of course he did. So did Jesus and Paul every time they went to the synagog. They knew that what they said was going to stir the pot, but they didn't stir the pot to be mean spirited, they stirred it to advance the Kingdom of God as did many of the prophets of old.

I understand that you disagree with this preacher. For me, that's ok. I understand your perspective. What's done is done, but I don't think we need to apologize for this guy to our Muslim neighbors because what he said, he said with respect, and it was truth as most Christians understand truth.

 

[reba]

I understand that you disagree with this preacher. For me, that's ok. I understand your perspective. What's done is done, but I don't think we need to apologize for this guy to our Muslim neighbors because what he said, he said with respect, and it was truth as most Christians understand truth.