The Religion of Peace

[Drummer4Christ]

Aren't we being a bit presumptuous in stating that this man knew he was playing in traffic/hornets nest to begin with even before he said one word about Jesus Christ?

Aren't we being presumptuous by stating the relative behavior of Southern Democrats in the segregated south or the Westboro Baptist Church in the present would garner the same reaction in hypothetical circumstances from the body of Christ?

 

[handy]

I understand that you disagree with this preacher. For me, that's ok. I understand your perspective. What's done is done, but I don't think we need to apologize for this guy to our Muslim neighbors because what he said, he said with respect, and it was truth as most Christians understand truth.

I don't think we need apologize either and I agree what is done, is done...

...but, perhaps we should pause and let this become a "learning moment".

What could possibly be "wrong" with sharing the gospel in whatever way possible?

"Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." Matthew 7:6

It was the Lord Himself Who said to not throw what is holy to dogs or cast pearls before swine. He said so for a reason. Basically the reason is that a: it puts one in danger of being attacked and b: it doesn't do any good, they trample it down.

Which is exactly what is taking place. Was the guy courageous? Yes...Was he sincere? Yes again! But, speaking of trampling...here is a sample of some of the responses to the video:

Alhumdulillah!!! the shabab of Islam took care of this moron, if it were adults he would have need the Army to protect him. How many Muslim preachers do you see at christian rock concerts or festivals...NONE!!! we know better then to start crap like that.

"Christian preachers are welcome in the city†--> perhaps they are. Your actions were (though, I assume well intended) very distasteful. Was this a cultural Festival primarily for muslims. Preaching your religion is disrespectful, inappropriate and can be perceived as hostile in this circumstance. Especially when you have a camera man with you.
Of course this might have been a different story if it wasn’t during the Festival. But you were the harasser in this case

The same thing would have happened if a Muslim schmuck started preaching the Koran among a bunch of Conservatives. Religion is evil.

You fail to take into account that they were kids. If this was a muslim preacher in the middle of a roman catholic/ baptist town, he would have been treated exactly the same if not worse. There was no violence and the guy had every incentive to move on once he was confronted by the crowd. He obviously wasn't welcome and his deluded faith and lack of knowledge of endangered his life.

I witnessed democracy in action.
He tried to preach his nonsense to a bunch of other people who told him to ---- off. They said he wasn't welcome and he refused to go because he believed he has to right to spoil their event. I see the same happen to Blacks, mexicans, jews, gays and every other denomination all across the U.S . He was ignorant and refused to leave. They were also a gang of kids. Christians do the same to TOLERANT muslims all across the U.S and are more violent.

Kick that Christian ------- in...Yes I love it!

Don't change the subject from your evil Old Testament. Commands from Jesus/God were to rape and murder people.

To be honest i didnt get what was happening, in the first place why was he preaching on a Arab Festival..atleast he should of had sense that he may get stabbed by an youth or beaten up before the police came to save him//.. At the end of the day i blame him for running into the centre and preaching about christianity.

I think both religions are equally stupid and violent. I just think Christians pick out verses that fit their narritive and don't look over their entire scriptures.
Okay, Muhammad agrees with the violent verses. And you admitted Jesus(who was God of the Old Testament, because if he's not, then you have 2 different Gods) put equally violent stuff in the Bible. So why are you going to this festival preaching "love" yet you have disregareded all the Bible's violent content??

Plus he shouldn't come and preach to the kidz? who the hell is he to do that? you go and preach to responsible adults not kidz, trying to play with brain.
To be honest, that guy is preaching to a bunch of muslims who simply questioned him on his knowledge of islam and told him he isn't welcome.
Much better than what would happen to a muslim in Bible Belt U.S.A where they shoot people for being gay or anything but Baptist/Catholic.


There's a lot more, but that's enough to show my point which is that there are ways of doing things that are much more fruitful and less likely to flame up the emotions in such as way as to shut down conversation rather than open it up.

Whenever I see this sort of thing, I'm always reminded of the "Gospel Bomb" dude...this was way, way back when I was in college and some very sincere Christian, who took the words "God's word will not return void" to heart and came up with the great idea of writing out a tract with verses explaining the gospel and literally throwing them at people who walked by. Naturally, he made a lot of people very, very angry, because nobody wants to have something thrown at them.

He defended his actions by saying, "If even one person comes to the Lord, it was all worth it."

Yeah...but if 10 more were offended and closed their mind because of being physically "bombed" by an admittedly sincere Christian...did he really do all that much good. I don't know if anyone was opened to the gospel, but I do know that so many complained to campus police about it, he was threatened with legal action if he didn't stop.

We have been entrusted with spreading the gospel...but we need to do it responsibly. However much this guy was sincere...and I'm not judging his sincerity at all...I think this kind of thing does indeed do more harm than good.

 

[Buzzy]

Seriously he's one of the few people who are living their faith like Jesus and the Disciples did. While Jesus Christ is being removed from your lips and your churches many hide in their homes and urge others to be quiet and don't confront them. What did Jesus do? What did the Saints do?

 

[Drummer4Christ]

@ Handy

I agree that this man should have gotten the heck out of dodge sooner but, are you saying he knew they were "swine" to begin with? That when the leaders of Dearborn invite Christians into the community, believers should automatically steer clear of "dogs" at Arab Festivals?

 

[handy]

Seriously he's one of the few people who are living their faith like Jesus and the Disciples did. While Jesus Christ is being removed from your lips and your churches many hide in their homes and urge others to be quiet and don't confront them. What did Jesus do? What did the Saints do?

This is exactly what I'm asking...well, maybe not exactly...I'm asking "Did Jesus do this? Did the Saints?"

If they did, I sure don't know what Scripture speaks of them doing so. Even Acts 17, which to my knowledge is the closest thing we have in Scripture of the Gospel being preached to unbelievers of a different religion, Paul was brought to the Aeropagus by the unbelievers and they asked him to explain what message he had been giving. He didn't go before unbelievers during a festival and start telling people, "If you don't like what you hear, just leave". The first great sermon in Scripture, the Sermon on the Mount...the crowds came specifically to hear Him.

No, Christians need not be silent about our faith, and we sure don't need to hide in our homes. We need to be out sharing the gospel and bringing God's truth in love...not necessarily by "confronting" folks though. Confrontation brings, by its very nature, conflict. The only ones that I see Jesus "confronting" are the religious leaders who were supposed to be leading God's people. His dealings with non-Jewish people tended to be tender.

I agree that this man should have gotten the heck out of dodge sooner but, are you saying he knew they were "swine" to begin with? That when the leaders of Dearborn invite Christians into the community, believers should automatically steer clear of "dogs" at Arab Festivals?

It's difficult to determine when we're "casting pearls before swine"...it's a tough statement and if anyone but Jesus had said it, one could almost say that it wasn't a godly statement (except that it is contained within God's Holy word)...

But, Jesus did say it, and surprisingly enough, He said it just after He said, "“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."

The other place where we see Jesus speaking of giving something to dogs is when He tells the Canaanite woman, "It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs."

Clearly, Jesus does distinguish between when it's appropriate to impart holy things and when it isn't. The Canaanite woman responded by humbly acknowledge that He was the Master, and her request was granted. But, I believe the key is "humbly". There are times when non-Christians are very humbled by the message of the gospel and it behooves us to follow that up with God's love and message.

Jesus also said, when He sent out the disciples, He told them, "Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet." Matthew 10:14

There are times when we know that there is maybe an individual, possibly a large group of people, who does listen...then there are times when it's clear that not only are they not listening...they are actually hostile to the message. I think it's pretty clear from Scripture that if folks are hostile, it's best just to move on. Doesn't mean that we can't approach the same city at a different time or place, but I think what Christ is best served by is not only the willingness to go out and share the gospel, but also the wisdom to determine when things are going well and when we're just stirring up trouble.

In that same passage that Jesus sends out the disciples He also says, " “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves." Matthew 10:16

While I admire the guy's sincerity, I don't think he was either wise in how he approached those people, nor innocent of provoking them.

 

[Buzzy]

You mean the Jesus who sat with the Pharisee and healed on the Sabbath? You mean the apostles like Paul who was beaten and stoned in too many towns to count and spent much time chained in jail for preaching that Jesus Christ was the messiah and that he was murdered but rose to life and ascended to heaven to sit at the right hand of God. Yes they did and they died horrible deaths because of their boldness (Save John who lived to old age working in the rock pits on an island so he would receive the revelation of Jesus Christ about he end of the age).

They were bold and would have been right there with this guy preaching the good news of Jesus Christ not dissing him on some internet forum.

 

[jasoncran]

what was i going to say? ah yes, duh why do some christians forget common sense?flying objects to the head? yeah try that on me and you may not like that too much.

rude and crudeem into heaven and we wonder why christians are hated at times. God isnt rude neither should we be.

 

[Christ_empowered]

On the one hand, I approve. By all means, get out there in the midst of people celebrating a false religion that will lead them to Hell and spread the Good News. On the other hand, its asking for trouble.

I will say, though, that the Good News is often troubling to those who receive it. I think one reason we are told in the Bible (I don't know the address) to "count the costs" and to realize that persecution is a part of being a Christian is that nobody really likes Christianity when they're in the dark. Those who love the darkness hate the light. Those who live by lies hate the Truth. You see it in preaching in correctional facilities, to homosexuals, to drug addicts, even to you everyday sinner on the street; nobody likes to be confronted with the truth. And in Islam, you're dealing with 2 very different value systems that both claim to be that path to salvation. There's going to be conflict.

I guess overall I more approve than I do disapprove. Go to the sinner, point out the error of his ways, offer hope and salvation...its a tried-and-true formula; it just happens to be riskier in some situations than in others.

 

[Buzzy]

I've spent quite a bit of time talking to Muslims about salvation. Most of them aren't aware of what their religion says about what will happen to them (unless they blow themselves up as martyrs) and are surprised to hear "There is not one among you who shall not pass through hell; such is the absolute decree of your Lord. We will deliver those who fear Us, and leave the wrongdoers there, on their knees." (Sura 19:71-72)

They respond very well to a Savior who died and defeated death and hell and welcome a living Lord who sits at the right hand of God to intercede for us.

 

[handy]

There will always come a time when the gospel offends. It's an offensive message...."I am the Way, the Truth and the Life" and no one come to the Father except through Me." Jesus promises us that we will face tribulation because of the gospel. But, sometimes, Christians offend because of their own actions...not because of the gospel. Sometimes, the gospel actually gets ignored or shouted over because of Christian's actions.

If it was a Jewish guy there, calling out that the Sons of Israel are God's chosen...well, that guy would probably be slaughtered. If it was an atheist who challenged Mohammed, that guy would face a lot of grief too. The reaction wasn't necessarily because it was the gospel. It was the wrong place and time.

If anyone wants to challenge me, through the Scriptures, that there is NEVER, EVER a "wrong place and time" OK. Show me that when Jesus said all the things that I posted that He said, He didn't mean that there are some times and some places that simply are not open for the gospel...I'm open to hearing it. If not, I stand firm in thinking the best thing to take from this incident is this:

More and more, Muslims are going to come into this country and become voters and in time, leaders. We Christians are going to be faced more and more with not only how to share the Gospel with our Muslim neighbors...but also, in time, persecution from them. And, as I said before: "perhaps we should pause and let this become a "learning moment". Perhaps we can take away from this better strategies so that when we speak, our message is heard, if even rejected...rather than just being shouted down, because of our behavior.

If this had taken place when Jesus sent the disciples out...their instruction from the Lord was to leave.

He didn't follow Jesus' instructions. He should have.

 

[Christ_empowered]

wise words handy. I've reconsidered my position.

 

[Mike]

Either I am reading the OP wrong, or I'm reading the subsequent discussion wrong, or I'm right and you all are .

It seems we've gone from questioning whether the Muslim crowd was indicative of a peaceful religion or not. It didn't seem to be, "Was this a biblical approach toward evangelism."

But I realize they are connected.

The thing is, I live close to Dearborn, Michigan just like Jeff (stove). We get a lot about the news that comes out of such a high middle east ethnic area.

When I hear what I hear, I realize they are very intolerant of other faiths in their community, and at the same time, they demand (and have won judicial support) that local ordinances be changed in their areas to accommodate their culture while being very intolerant of others. Here's a perfect example.

In a small town in the shadow of Detroit, Church bells coming from a church were deemed to be too loud, and they had to soften them. About 6 months later, the Muslims began forcing the issue of their right to send their reminders for prayers throughout the town. So 5 times a day at prayer time, these tones that originate from various locations around the city sound the reminder to get their mats out.

Where is the fairness in that? There have been countless stories of Christian street preachers being told they couldn't stand across the street from a gathering. They weren't even approaching them! The Muslims had to cross the streets to engage them. And engage them, they did; physically and with vile words.

Intolerant, easy to anger, and bent on changing local American laws to reflect laws and rights they had in their native countries.

 

[stovebolts]

Dora,

I see that this is a topic close to your heart. As such, I see no need to divide us on this issue as I am a firm believer that unity is not uniformity and I did not enter into this discussion to neither debate, nor win an argument.

As I've earlier stated, I understand your perspective and it is well reasoned within scripture. That being said, as foolish as what this preacher may have seemed in your reasoning, I do not see him, nor what he did as foolishness. If anything, he conducted himself very well and kept himself composed and respectable unlike the hatred that he received.

You posted much of the negative replies from the youtube video, but they are simply opinions.

You speak about how it is rude and even stupid to go into a festival and preach the gospel. But what about the Muslims coming into America, which has for the most part has been established as a Christian Nation, yet through the freedom allowed them by our constitution, which by the way would not be granted to a Christian in the middle east, they are allowed to be intolerant to Christians as shown in the video posted. Again, there is a national effort to soften the Muslim faith in America, so be prepared, the commercials and billboards are coming soon. Just like gay marriage etc, expect to see more Muslims in your daily tv shows as well. What does this tell us about tolerance?

It has been said that you can only grant respect to the degree that you know how to respect. How is it then that a man can hold up a book considered Holy in one hand, while flipping the bird with the other hand and dropping the F-bomb like it's gumdrops? If anything, the video shows me exactly how intolerant many of them can be, which explains why some of their sect can crash planes into buildings and feel justified by that very same book.

Am I saying all Muslims are like this? Absolutely not! Just like I wouldn't say that every Christian runs around at military funerals shouting "God hates fags". But what I am trying to say, is that if you had a Muslim come into a Christian festival, I highly doubt they would receive anything close to the same treatment.

God's word tells us not to sin in our Anger, and by way of example we see Jesus using his anger toward the good. If anything, this video has opened my eyes to a side of the people that I see, and do business with almost every day.

 

[Drummer4Christ]

@ StoveBolts

Are you familiar with the testimony of the " three ex terrorists" particularly Walid Shoebat?

 

[stovebolts]

@ StoveBolts

Are you familiar with the testimony of the " three ex terrorists" particularly Walid Shoebat?

Nope, don't know nutten about them, but I'm willing to hear what you have to say if you feel like writing about them, but honestly, I probably won't read a link if you do decide to post one because I'm more interested in what you have to say.

 

[All Englands Skies]

I disagree with this bloke doing this at an Arab festival to be honest simply because it riles them up and makes it look like Christians are provoking, but I agree wholeheartedly with the message of Christ being spead.

But on a side note, in the city centre of my city, muslims gather with a huge banner proclaiming "Jesus is a Muslim" and they arent surrounded by angry mobs, you could argue that its not a festival, but its still a city in a supposidly "Christian Majority" country, So I dont see the diffrence, if its distasteful to preach Christianity at a mainly Muslim festival (Arabs arent all Muslims), then its distasteful for them to spread Islam in a "Majority Christian country"

its swings in round-a-bouts

 

[stovebolts]

Hi All England and welcome!

I agree. It's a double standard, which Mike alluded to with the reminder for Prayer in Dearborn 5 times a day, yet they silence the church bells....

 

[Drummer4Christ]

Nope, don't know nutten about them, but I'm willing to hear what you have to say if you feel like writing about them, but honestly, I probably won't read a link if you do decide to post one because I'm more interested in what you have to say.

Concerning Walid Shoebat, he is a former PLO terrorist & Muslim Brotherhood member born in Bethlehem to an American (Christian) mother & a Jordanian (Muslim) father. He witnessed the six day war for the creation of Israel and, participated in terrorist acts against Israel as a teen/young adult before emigrating to the US on a student visa. While in America, he promoted Arab Culture Understanding events on college campus' which were actually fundraising fronts for jihad. He states that the pamphlets for such events printed in English promised tolerance & free snacks, while the pamphlets printed in Arabic promised the blood-shed of infidels. He married an American woman (who was Christian). In his quest to convert her to Islam, he started studying the Bible to prove the corruptions made by Christians & Jews. As he studied Scripture he came to realize that the God of the Bible loved Jews, while the God of the Qur'an hated them. That the God of the Bible fought for Israel, while the God of the Qur'an fought against it. That Isaac was the son of the free woman, while Ishmael was the son of the slave. That the God of the Bible offers the assurance of salvation through His blood, while the God of the Qur'an offers no such assurance except through a martyrs blood, shed for the cause of Allah. That (in Mr. Shoebats words) the "good guys of the Qur'an were the bad guys of the Bible, and the good guys of the Bible were the bad guys of the Qur'an". He states that even the eschatology is reversed, with his Mahdi being our anti-Christ and our Christ being his "anti-Christ".

Eventually, he wanted to know the truth. So he said a prayer that Muslims, Christians, and Jews would all agree on. He prayed to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to show him the truth of which was correct: the Bible or the Qur'an. After one year of studying the Bible, Mr. Shoebat confessed of his sins and accepted Jesus as his Lord & Savior.

I can still post video links if you are interested, as listening to Mr. Shoebats testimony in his own words is quite powerful as well as eye opening into what Islam actually teaches.

 

[jasoncran]

correction the six day war(yom kippur war) was in 1967, not 1948.

 

[Drummer4Christ]

Regardless of wether or not you find the street preachers actions abhorrent:

Much is made concerning the distinction between "moderate" vs "extreme" Muslims. That by and large the majority of the Islamic community is made up of "peaceful" adherents, while it is the "fundamentalist" minority that engages in violent & intolerant behavior.

This video is of but one testament that there are no peaceful "moderates" in Islam. Not only that, Scripture warns us the "through peace he (Antichrist) will deceive many".

However, there is an easy way for America to have "peace" with Islam that both moderate & extremist Muslims agree.

We simply gather en mass and recite Arabic in unison:

There is no God but Allah, and Muhammed is his messenger!

Any takers?




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